Those like Richard who think themselves well versed in Buddhism are the ones who make the most errors

[Mark Rogow]

http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-ongi-kuden-record-of-orally.html

http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/more-proof-that-ongi-kuden-is-forgery.html

Regarding the documents that Taisekiji attributes to Nikko, Yamanaka Kihachi, one of the great Nichiren scholars of the twentieth century and an expert on Nikko's authenticated writings, has written an exhaustive study on Nikko. He examined ALL of his writings, including the Taisekiji documents that the Nichiren Shoshu attribute to him. His comments were as follows: "If one examines all the authenticated writings of Nikko and then compares them to the documents that are housed at Taisekiji, the authentic writings are 180 degrees apart from those at Taisekiji. The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."-- Yamanaka Kihachi: "The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Mark Rogow
http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-ongi-kuden-record-of-orally.html
http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/more-proof-that-ongi-kuden-is-forgery.html
Regarding the documents that Taisekiji attributes to Nikko, Yamanaka Kihachi, one of the great Nichiren scholars of the twentieth century and an expert on Nikko's authenticated writings, has written an exhaustive study on Nikko. He examined ALL of his writings, including the Taisekiji documents that the Nichiren Shoshu attribute to him. His comments were as follows: "If one examines all the authenticated writings of Nikko and then compares them to the documents that are housed at Taisekiji, the authentic writings are 180 degrees apart from those at Taisekiji. The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."-- Yamanaka Kihachi: "The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."

I presume "Nikko's Admonitions" fall into this category??

RE: the Ogni Kudon , what is truly confounding is that *Orally Recorded* teachings attributed to Nichiren, who abhorred this method of transmission, could gain such prominence as to invoke a revision of the Three Treasures, another slander of Nichiren.

I mean, really?

~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

What is said of 'presume or assume' is what you consistently do! Rather than 'Rely on The Law' you can twist and turn Nichiren's Teachings all you want. But the teachings are what matters not what you want them to say, or mean. Those of little faith drown in the sea of confusion...

Sincerely, Richard H Brown - A Votary of the Lotus Sutra

[n***@gmail.com]

Mark your interpretations of Nichiren"s Teachings are limited at best. Your Sect Nichiren Shu which has been extolling statues of Shakyamuni more-so than the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and claiming everything as false and n misleading but your so-called doctrines. Why has your sect Nichiren Shu failed in it's publications of Nichiren's Teachings and only recently published some of Nichiren's Teachings as your sect translates them? You re attacking everyone and producing very little evidence from the teachings of the Nichiren Shu.

Most od your own resources are from other sects publications which are vast and extensive. Why?

In the Gosho: 'Questions and Answers on the Object of Devotion' Nichiren Writes:

"QUESTION: In the evil world of the latter age, what should ordinary men and women take as their object of devotion?

Answer: They should make the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra their object of devotion."

This is clear isn't it? Show me from your sects teachings where you dispute this!

Nichiren continues: "Question: In what sutra passage or what commentary of the Buddhist teachers is this view expressed?

"Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “Medicine King, in any place whatsoever where this sutra is preached, where it is read, where it is recited, where it is copied, or where a roll of it exists, in all such places there should be erected towers made of the seven kinds of gems, and they should be made very high and broad and well adorned. There is no need to enshrine the relics of the Buddha there. Why? Because in such towers the entire body of the Thus Come One is already present.”

And the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in his Method of Repentance through the Lotus Meditation says: “In the place of practice one should erect a suitably fashioned dais and place a copy of the Lotus Sutra on it. One need not adorn it with any statues of the Buddha, his relics, or copies of other scriptures. Simply place a copy of the Lotus Sutra there.”

Do not come up with some other resources or commentaries show me from your sect Nichiren Shu their version of this Gosho! Or simply admit you are making up Buddhism out of shards and other trash!

You can post a hundred pages of nonsense if you choose but I want to see your documentary proof. And furthermore your so called Nichiren Shonin writings aren't even available without purchasing the books. Why?

Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of the Lotus Sutra

[i***@gmail.com]

"Mark your interpretations of Nichiren"s Teachings are limited at best. Your Sect Nichiren Shu which has been extolling statues of Shakyamuni more-so than the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and claiming everything as false and n misleading but your so-called doctrines. Why has your sect Nichiren Shu failed in it's publications of Nichiren's Teachings and only recently published some of Nichiren's Teachings as your sect translates them? You re attacking everyone and producing very little evidence from the teachings of the Nichiren Shu.

Most od your own resources are from other sects publications which are vast and extensive. Why?

In the Gosho: 'Questions and Answers on the Object of Devotion' Nichiren Writes:

"QUESTION: In the evil world of the latter age, what should ordinary men and women take as their object of devotion?

Answer: They should make the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra their object of devotion."

This is clear isn't it? Show me from your sects teachings where you dispute this!

Nichiren continues: "Question: In what sutra passage or what commentary of the Buddhist teachers is this view expressed?

"Answer: The “Teacher of the Law” chapter in the fourth volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “Medicine King, in any place whatsoever where this sutra is preached, where it is read, where it is recited, where it is copied, or where a roll of it exists, in all such places there should be erected towers made of the seven kinds of gems, and they should be made very high and broad and well adorned. There is no need to enshrine the relics of the Buddha there. Why? Because in such towers the entire body of the Thus Come One is already present.”

And the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in his Method of Repentance through the Lotus Meditation says: “In the place of practice one should erect a suitably fashioned dais and place a copy of the Lotus Sutra on it. One need not adorn it with any statues of the Buddha, his relics, or copies of other scriptures. Simply place a copy of the Lotus Sutra there.”

Do not come up with some other resources or commentaries show me from your sect Nichiren Shu their version of this Gosho! Or simply admit you are making up Buddhism out of shards and other trash!

You can post a hundred pages of nonsense if you choose but I want to see your documentary proof. And furthermore your so called Nichiren Shonin writings aren't even available without purchasing the books. Why?

Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of the Lotus Sutra"

A few things to note on Richards post.

1) Nichiren Shu is a relatively recent and goverment imposed sectarian grouping of many different branches of Nichiren tradition. It includes a diverse range of veiwpoints. There is no like for like comparison with the likes of Nichiren Shoshu or the SGIkeda, both of which have a fairly and narrow focus on a rigid central ideological stance.

2) Although Richard is probably referencing the Nichiren Shoshu/Nichiren Shoshu Soka Gakkai produced Major Writings and the SGIkeda produced Writings of Nichiren Daishonin being more available to English speakers, he omits to mention that

1) The Goshu Zenshu was only put together in Japanese in the 50's, until then Nichiren Shoshu had to rely heavily on Nichiren Shu collections.

2) Until recently Nichiren Shu was completely dependent on schooling their priests in Nichiren Shu Rissho University.

3) Nichiren Shu was out of Japan and into the rest of the world almost a century before Nichiren Shoshu/NSSG started overseas propogation. Some woukd say they established the path before others lazily ambled along it when it had been marked out by the faith and Daimoku of those pioneers. It's easy to bring hordes where there is already easy access, much more difficult to create that access in the first place.

4) NST/NSSG were very late to an English translation of the Sutra. A Nichiren Shu priest had already translated the Sutra into English, whilst studying in Oxford University in the 1930's, which was then published by Rissho Kosie Kai in the 1970's (with opening and closing sutras) a full 20 odd years before SGIkeda funded it's first translation of the Lotus Sutra corr and several more years until it rendered the opening and closing sutras.

5) Quality and authenticity are important. The University of Hawaii Press (NOPPA) translations only include Gosho that are deemed to be authentic, either because they are A) in Nichiren's own hand and bear his seal B)Copies with good provenance by immediate followers and that are consitent with the many writings in Nichiren's hand and not inconsitent with them.

Not so NST and SGI Gosho Zenshu, which contain works that are of dubious quality that display inconsistencies of thought and with Nichiren's authenticated works (throughout the life time of the latter). Nichiren Shoshu has not ever to mu knowledge allowed it's Gosho to be examined by independent scholars, unlike Nichiren Shu's.

This is incredibly unhelpful for anyone new but sincere in their study of Nichiren's writings. The disputed/dubious Gosho are all mixed in with authentic Gosho, with no acknowledgement of the issue nor indication as to which is which. The SGIkeda volumes do have a disclaimer at the front though. So what does one take as one's guide if some may not be Nichiren?

So, with that in mind Richard, perhaos if you are serious and dilligent as your signature proclamtion suggests, you will be more careful in putting your case, lest it be an ecomonmy with the truth and thus misleading. Please at least try to tell the whole story, rather than half truths, especially when you are disparaging the SGIkeda competition.

By the way, you didn't mention, did you come off your SGIkeda suspension yet? Did they let you back in?

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
What is said of 'presume or assume' is what you consistently do! Rather than 'Rely on The Law' you can twist and turn Nichiren's Teachings all you want. But the teachings are what matters not what you want them to say, or mean. Those of little faith drown in the sea of confusion...
Sincerely, Richard H Brown - A Votary of the Lotus Sutra

Richard, I presume you din't read the content in both links, because if you did, you would understand my comments!

Yes, the authentic teachings consistent with the main body of Nichiren's authentic writings are what matters, and not what you want to disparage and who you want to demean to defend your zealotry!

~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

Firstly Katie I did not realize you were a recognized Scholar in Nichiren's Teachings. I also did not know you were a translator of various languages. I do remember you stating that the Gongyo you recite is in Sanskrit is the classical language of Indian and the liturgical language of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It is also one of the 22 official languages of India. The name Sanskrit means "refined", "consecrated" and "sanctified".....ummm you amuse me...with your rants, which have no doctrinal backings. Provide some proof of your assertions or merely continue with your nonsense.

Waiting

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Firstly Katie I did not realize you were a recognized Scholar in Nichiren's Teachings. I also did not know you were a translator of various languages. I do remember you stating that the Gongyo you recite is in Sanskrit is the classical language of Indian and the liturgical language of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It is also one of the 22 official languages of India. The name Sanskrit means "refined", "consecrated" and "sanctified".....ummm you amuse me...with your rants, which have no doctrinal backings. Provide some proof of your assertions or merely continue with your nonsense.
Waiting

With respect for your challenging my credentials to comment on the scholarly works of renowned experts in the fields required to examine the documents extant from 1253, the earliest date, I apply the same methods any student in Grad school would employ writing her thesis, which includes verifying the credibility of the *expert* sources she will rely upon. - plus, and possibly even more important in terms of this endeavor, I rely on my faith and practice of Nichiren's Buddhism, which has included reading and studying Nichiren's writings for 28 years. I recognized the variances from Nichiren's own writings immediately as a reason to doubt the authenticity of *orally recorded teachings*. you may recall, Nichiren disparaged teachings transmitted apart from the sutra--- or rather, orally recorded teachings were regarded as unreliable by Nichiren.

I don't suppose you have read the commentaries on the ogni kudon referenced in the two links of the original post here? It makes more sense to me to discuss or debate the specific points , even the credentials of the Buddhist scholars who are making the points, if you like, because the the inconsistent teachings contained in the, Ogni Kuden, which to my satisfaction has been proven a fake, are crucial to realizing these gross distortions of Nichiren's teachings were used to create the erroneous doctrines that are the foundation for the NST and its spawn, the SGI. For those seeking to follow Nichiren, this is a very grave matter. If it is of no concern to you, that in itself is revealing, but rather than create distractions from the topic why not just say you can't be bothered with verifying the document that supports your views?

I think in your zeal to discredit me, your rendering of my mistaken reference to the language in the Gakkai *Gongyo books* has exaggerated the significance of my calling it *sanskrit*. My point in the discussion you initiated about Gongyo was that all SGI members have access to the English translation of the chapters of the Lotus Sutra , and like I did as a new member, read and recite the chapters in English-- at will! To emphasize the significance of the Lotus Sutra itself in terms of Nichiren's teachings was the point-- the language in the *Gongyo books* could have been Martian-- and the point is the same.

Are you well versed in Buddhism, Richard? A veritable expert on the teachings of Nichiren? Then engage in discussion on the topic of the refutation of the authenticity of the Ogni Kuden with regard to the points made in the links above. You'll need to read the commentaries first. I will respond to any points you raise from your reading. I find your personal need to assert your self proclaimed superiority a tiresome ploy to avoid learning how mistaken you are.

~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Firstly Katie I did not realize you were a recognized Scholar in Nichiren's Teachings. I also did not know you were a translator of various languages. I do remember you stating that the Gongyo you recite is in Sanskrit is the classical language of Indian and the liturgical language of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It is also one of the 22 official languages of India. The name Sanskrit means "refined", "consecrated" and "sanctified".....ummm you amuse me...with your rants, which have no doctrinal backings. Provide some proof of your assertions or merely continue with your nonsense.
Waiting

Let's discuss the "topic", shall we?

How do we explain the great divergence between the Ongi Kudon and the Lotus Sutra on this specific point regarding Shakyamnui's status as the Original Buddha?

In the Ongi Kuden we read:

“This Myoho-renge-kyo (Lotus Sutra) is not Shakyamuni’s Mystic Law, because at the time this chapter was preached, he had already entrusted it to Bodhisattva Jogyo.” (Gosho, p. 1783)

In the Kanjin Honzon Sho (The True Object of Worship), the most important writing of Nichiren Daishonin, we read,

“Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five charecters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples since the eternal past, who had sprung up from under ground.” Kanjin Honzon Sho, pp 122 to 140, NOPPA 1991.

and in the Lotus Sutra we read:

“At that time the Buddha spoke to Superior Practices and the others in the great assembly of bodhisattvas, saying: “The supernatural powers of the Buddhas, as you have seen, are immeasurable, boundless, inconceivable. If in the process of entrusting this sutra (Myoho renge kyo) to others I were to employ these supernatural powers for a measurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas to describe the benefits of the sutra, I could never finish doing so. To put it briefly, all the doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One, the storehouse of all the secret essentials of the Thus Come One – all these are proclaimed, revealed, and clearly expounded in this sutra.”(Myoho renge kyo). (Lotus Sutra Chapter 21)

I wonder why Nichiren would make such a statement that contradicts both the Lotus Sutra and his previous teachings ? It is NOT Shakyamnui's Mystic Law? To me that sounds like the notion of someone who is planning to steal this *excellent medicine* , and it makes no sense that Nichiren himself would steal from Shakyamuni.

What say you, Richard?

~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:46 pm

I'm sure some of you have had experiences with people who present themselves as experts or knowledgeable in Buddhism. The Gosho: 'The Opening of the Eyes' which Nichiren Daishonin wrote to Shijō Kingo, one of his leading disciples in Kamakura and a samurai who was in the employ of the ruling Hōjō clan, on behalf of all his followers. When the Daishonin was taken to Tatsunokuchi in Kamakura in 1271, Shijō Kingo accompanied him, having resolved to die by his side, and personally witnessed his triumph over execution. Also, he had journeyed to Sado to visit the Daishonin in exile and sent his messengers to him with writing materials and other necessities. Nichiren warns us of people who are Slicksters....
Nichiren writes:
"In the ninth volume of the Nirvana Sutra we read: “Good man, there are icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. They pretend to be arhats, living in deserted places and speaking slanderously of the correct and equal sutras of the great vehicle. When ordinary people see them, they all suppose that they are true arhats and speak of them as great bodhisattvas.” It also says: “At that time, this sutra will be widely propagated throughout Jambudvīpa. In that age there will be evil monks who will steal this sutra and divide it into many parts, losing the color, scent, and flavor of the correct teaching that it contains. These evil men will read and recite this sutra, but they will ignore and put aside the profound and vital principles that the Thus Come One has expounded in it and replace them with ornate rhetoric and meaningless talk. They will tear off the first part of the sutra and stick it on at the end, tear off the end and put it at the beginning, put the end and the beginning in the middle and the middle at the beginning or the end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil.”
The six-volume Parinirvāna Sutra states: “There are also icchantikas who resemble arhats but who commit evil deeds. There are also arhats who resemble icchantikas but display merciful hearts. The icchantikas who look like arhats spend their time slandering the correct and equal sutras to the populace. The arhats who look like icchantikas, on the other hand, are critical of the voice-hearers and go about preaching the correct and equal sutras. They address the populace, saying, ‘You and I are all bodhisattvas. Why? Because each living being possesses the Buddha nature.’ But the populace will probably call such men icchantikas.”

This is why Shakyamuni Buddha in the Sixth Volume of the Nirvana Sutra says, "four standards ［四依］ ( shie): Also, four reliances. Four standards that Buddhists must follow. According to the Nirvana Sutra and the Vimalakīrti Sutra, the four standards are (1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.

This is in itself a guide for those truly seeking Nichiren's Teachings and his purpose in 'opening the near and revealing the distant' or 'Casting aside the transient and revealing the true'

Sincerely, JazzisTvRicky, A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:46 pm
I'm sure some of you have had experiences with people who present themselves as experts or knowledgeable in Buddhism. The Gosho: 'The Opening of the Eyes' which Nichiren Daishonin wrote to Shijō Kingo, one of his leading disciples in Kamakura and a samurai who was in the employ of the ruling Hōjō clan, on behalf of all his followers. When the Daishonin was taken to Tatsunokuchi in Kamakura in 1271, Shijō Kingo accompanied him, having resolved to die by his side, and personally witnessed his triumph over execution. Also, he had journeyed to Sado to visit the Daishonin in exile and sent his messengers to him with writing materials and other necessities. Nichiren warns us of people who are Slicksters....
"In the ninth volume of the Nirvana Sutra we read: “Good man, there are icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. They pretend to be arhats, living in deserted places and speaking slanderously of the correct and equal sutras of the great vehicle. When ordinary people see them, they all suppose that they are true arhats and speak of them as great bodhisattvas.” It also says: “At that time, this sutra will be widely propagated throughout Jambudvīpa. In that age there will be evil monks who will steal this sutra and divide it into many parts, losing the color, scent, and flavor of the correct teaching that it contains. These evil men will read and recite this sutra, but they will ignore and put aside the profound and vital principles that the Thus Come One has expounded in it and replace them with ornate rhetoric and meaningless talk. They will tear off the first part of the sutra and stick it on at the end, tear off the end and put it at the beginning, put the end and the beginning in the middle and the middle at the beginning or the end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil.”
The six-volume Parinirvāna Sutra states: “There are also icchantikas who resemble arhats but who commit evil deeds. There are also arhats who resemble icchantikas but display merciful hearts. The icchantikas who look like arhats spend their time slandering the correct and equal sutras to the populace. The arhats who look like icchantikas, on the other hand, are critical of the voice-hearers and go about preaching the correct and equal sutras. They address the populace, saying, ‘You and I are all bodhisattvas. Why? Because each living being possesses the Buddha nature.’ But the populace will probably call such men icchantikas.”
This is why Shakyamuni Buddha in the Sixth Volume of the Nirvana Sutra says, "four standards ［四依］ ( shie): Also, four reliances. Four standards that Buddhists must follow. According to the Nirvana Sutra and the Vimalakīrti Sutra, the four standards are (1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.
This is in itself a guide for those truly seeking Nichiren's Teachings and his purpose in 'opening the near and revealing the distant' or 'Casting aside the transient and revealing the true'
Sincerely, JazzisTvRicky, A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

Not a single word referencing the topic! We all know people who disrupt this forum with off topic jargon.

Maybe you need a bit more prompting to discuss the points on topic>

Here's another passage of the Ongi Kuden with critical commentary.

508654
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 26, 2015
The Ongi Kuden [Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings] versus Nichiren Daishonin a top 3 post
The Ongi Kuden is the purported Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. Chapter 16 is the most important chapter because it corresponds to Chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra, the most important chapter of the the Lotus Sutra. It is a controversial and disputed writing held in high esteem by the Soka Gakkai. Are the doctrines contained within the Ongi Kuden consonent with teachings of the Lotus Sutra, the Five Major Writings of Nichiren and the entire body of Nichiren's writings? Is the Ongi Kuden shallow or profound? Does it accord with the mind of the Buddha? I hope to answer these questions.

Ongi Kuden:

16: The Life Span of the Buddha [Nyorai Juryo]

"The Juryo chapter reveals the original life of all beings in the ten worlds. This chapter is called the essential teaching or hommon because it is the gateway to eternity. (Gosho Zenshu p. 799)

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo Nyorai Juryo-hon; for Nichiren, it is the title of this chapter that is the important teaching. The title of this chapter represents an essential principle applicable to Nichiren. This was transferred [to Bodhisattva Fukyo] in the Jinriki Chapter. Nyorai, in the broadest sense, means Shakyamuni and all the Buddhas in the universe and throughout the three existences of life, but in its strictest sense, it means only the True Buddha who possesses the three attributes of life. Now I, Nichiren and my disciples mean to say that Nyorai, in its broadest sense, indicates all humanity but, in a stricter sense, it stands for my disciples and believers." (Gosho Zenshu p. 752)

Nichiren's disciple:

Is the True Buddha Nichiren and his disciples or the Buddha who taught Nichiren and the other disciples in the remote past, bestowing upon them the Five Characters of Myoho renge kyo at the Ceremony in the Air? The concept of the general and the specific will be brought up again and again to show that the author of the Ongi Kuden misunderstood the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. The passage above is not only a teaching of the Ongi Kuden but a teachings of the Fuji sect, particularly a teaching of the Soka Gakkai.

Nichiren, on the other hand, states in the Essentials for Attaining Buddhahood:

"The Lotus Sutra states that Bodhisattva Superior Practices and the others will appear in the first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law to propagate the five characters, the embodiment of the two elements of reality and wisdom. The sutra makes this perfectly clear. Who could possibly dispute it? I, Nichiren, am neither Bodhisattva Superior Practices nor his envoy, but I precede them, spreading the five characters to prepare the way. Bodhisattva Superior Practices received the water of the wisdom of the Mystic Law from the Thus Come One Shakyamuni and causes it to flow into the wasteland of the people’s lives in the evil world of the latter age. This is the function of wisdom. Shakyamuni Buddha transferred this teaching to Bodhisattva Superior Practices, and now Nichiren propagates it in Japan. With regard to the transfer of teachings, it is divided into two categories: general and specific. If you confuse the general with the specific even in the slightest, you will never be able to attain Buddhahood and will wander in suffering through endless transmigrations of births and deaths."

He spends the rest of this writing explaining this passage and concludes:

"The sutra states, “Those persons who had heard the Law dwelled here and there in various Buddha lands, constantly reborn in company with their teachers,”and “If one stays close to the teachers of the Law, one will speedily gain the bodhisattva way. By following and learning from these teachers one will see Buddhas as numerous as Ganges sands.” A commentary says, “Originally one followed this Buddha and for the first time conceived the desire to seek the way. And by following this Buddha again, one will reach the stage where there is no retrogression.” Another commentary says, “In the beginning one followed this Buddha or bodhisattva and formed a bond with him, and so it will be through this Buddha or bodhisattva that one will attain one’s goal." Above all, be sure to follow your original teacher so that you are able to attain Buddhahood. Shakyamuni Buddha is the original teacher for all people, and moreover, he is endowed with the virtues of sovereign and parent. Because I have expounded this teaching, I have been exiled and almost killed. As the saying goes, “Good advice grates on the ear.” But still I am not discouraged. The Lotus Sutra is like the seed, the Buddha like the sower, and the people like the field. If you deviate from these principles, not even I can save you in your next life."

Nichiren's disciple:

Nichiren is crystal clear and the teaching in The Essentials For Attaining Buddhahood accords with the Lotus Sutra and the teachings in the Five Major Works. Are we to believe the Ongi Kuden or the Lotus Sutra, the Opening of the Eyes, the True Object of Worship, and The Essentials for Attaining Buddhahood?

These passages of The Essentials For Attaining Buddhahood are antithetical to the opening passage of the Ongi Kuden. Who are we to believe? The SGI who says the profound principles of Buddhism are to be found in the Ongi Kuden or the disciples and believers of Nichiren who says the Ongi Kuden is a cunning expedient invented by the Nichiren Shoshu to promote their heretical brand of Buddhism? You would be wise to adopt the criteria of the disciples and believers of Nichiren and the Nichiren Gohonzon that is indeed sublime.

This commentary was written by a votary of the Lotus Sutra. Open your eyes to more evidence for discounting the Ongi Kuden!

Beat,
~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

Katie you and Mark are always using the doctrines you call counterfeit for example you always quote Nikko's:

five major writings ［五大部］ ( godai-bu): The five most important writings of Nichiren (1222–1282), as identified by Nichiren’s successor, Nikkō. They are (1) On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land, (2) The Opening of the Eyes, (3) The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind, (4) The Selection of the Time, and (5) On Repaying Debts of Gratitude. See also ten major writings.

Yet you call him a fake, phony, liar, etc. Where do you reference these works other than from Nikko Shonin?

Hypocriete you both are. Notice folks Katie never mentions the Gohonzon in any meaningful way. She fails to realize that the Gohonzon is the Lotus Sutra for the Latter Day of the Law. Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra is useless and only is used as a cosigner for the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren. Even she chants Daimoku to the Gohonzon not to Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Why?

Keep Slandering My Lady as I have said Katie. You are addicted to pain!

Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

[i***@gmail.com]

Richard what you have written is nonsense, so let's make some sense of it:

"Katie you and Mark are always using the doctrines you call counterfeit for example you always quote Nikko's" five major writings ［五大部］ ( godai-bu): The five most important writings of Nichiren (1222–1282), as identified by Nichiren’s successor, Nikkō. They are (1) On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land, (2) The Opening of the Eyes, (3) The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind, (4) The Selection of the Time, and (5) On Repaying Debts of Gratitude. See also ten major writings."

There is no dispute that Nikko was one of Nichiten's 6 major disciples, Mark and Katie have never said otherwise. What is disputed is that

A) Nikko was nominated by Nichiren as his sole successor or that Nikko ever claimed to be. Mark has consistently used respected scholarly sources to support this.
B) that Nikko wrote the works attibributed to him,that are not in his hand, do not bear his seal and wguch appeared much latter. Likewise scholarly research has been used to clarify this.


The issue Richard is selerating fact from fiction, authenticity from forgery. Because one calls out the street salesman who is selling fake Rolexes for $20, that doesn't mean that real Rolexes aren't precision engineered quality items or don't exist. It's all about indentifying truth from lies and not getting conned.

"Yet you call him a fake, phony, liar, etc. Where do you reference these works other than from Nikko Shonin?"

No they don't Richard, please try to read their posts properly. They have said that forgeries paased off in his name are fake, phony, lies. Rather like your assetion about Mark and Katie, itcs easily dine isn't it! Readers can use the Index to check Mark and Katies arguments and their sources for themselves.

"Hypocriete you both are. Notice folks Katie never mentions the Gohonzon in any meaningful way. She fails to realize that the Gohonzon is the Lotus Sutra for the Latter Day of the Law. Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra is useless and only is used as a cosigner for the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren. Even she chants Daimoku to the Gohonzon not to Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Why?"


Richard, you must gave missed the thread "Gohonzon and Gohonzon mandalas" that Katie is contributing to right now and the many exchanges where this point has been raised. I suggest you go and check before making false assertions and misrepresenting what Katie has or hasm't written. You might like to apologise to her for your error?

"Keep Slandering My Lady as I have said Katie. You are addicted to pain!"

Richard, this is wrong and not a little weird and creepy. Katie thus far has beem consistent in upholding the Sutra, suppprting faith in it and directing to Nichiren's teaching, where's the slander?

What Katie hasn't done is delete loads of her postings, throw tantrums, become highly emotional and unreasonable etc. All signs of addiction to pain, it seems to me you are projecting your stuff outwards.

Be well :)

Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

[i***@gmail.com]

Richard this link might help in regards to your false assertion that Katie never mentions Gohonzon:

Gonhonzon and Gohonzon mandalas.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/f4PcKAHqBd4

Enjoy your day :)

PS have you come off your suspention from SGI USA yet and are you back in the fold? You never said what the outcome was.

[i***@gmail.com]

On another note and since we are on the 5 major writings, which by the way are recognised by all Nichiren sects as being such, so this wasn't just a Nikko thing, it is odd how SGI has approached lecturing on them or rather not.

The Selected Lectures on the Gosho vol 1 covers (Daisaku Ikeda 1979) covers three Gosho: True Entity of Life, Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life and True Object of Worship.

In 2007 Mr Ikeda is credited with having delivered a lecture on On Attaining Buddhahood in this Lifetime. In 2009 he is credited with having delivered lectures on the Opening of the Eyes and Hertage of the Ultimate Law of Life.

I say credited with because I doubt these are his work in any way, shape or form. Anyone who compares the 1979 lecture on Heritage will notice how structurally and qualitatively duffernt these two lecture are.

The 1979 lecture is much more like a lecture that is designed to assist readers in understanding the context of the Gosho, unpacking concepts and providing relevant history. For sure the Gakkai messages are still there as is the master disciple in a mission to achieve kosen rufu (we are Disciples of Mr Toda) but the "mentor-disciple as a teaching and a priciple" is not there. Also,there is a clear focus in faith in Gohonzon, the diciples statemnt does not detract or over shadow faith in Gohonzon.

For example:

"Because we embrace the Gohonzon and chant Daimoku, our lives are enties of the ultimate law. The heritage of the ultimate Law is never interrupted in the lives of those who continue to embrace Gohonzon throughout the past, present and future." Page 147.

He goes on to say:

"...the Daishonin wrote in this particular way to remind Sairenbo that the continuous practice of faith is most important of all. The heritage of the ultimate law is passed on to lives elevated through faith to a level a level where perception and communication with the Buddha's life is not only possible but assured." Page 148.

I can't argue with any of that nor do I seek to. This type of teaching, with a clear emphasis on faith and encouragment to deepen and continue it was the characteristic of the NSUK/SGI I formally joined in 1990 after almost 2 years of studying the doctrine and organusation. It was a good thing, the SGI in the UK at least, reflected that emphasis and facilitated faith. More importantly, it worked. I could see that in the way the UK org was, how it behaved, hiw it's leaders and members behaved and in my own life as I applied that teaching of faith. Almost 30 years later it still works. Attainment of buddhahood through the mentor-disciple relationship does not and that deviation is likewise reflected in the organisation and members who follow tgat way.

More importantly, in the 1979 lecture, there is NO assertion that buddhahood is attained through the mentor-disciple relationship, nor even a suggestion of such.

When attainment of buddhahoid is mentioned it is in a qualified manner, which accords with the text of the Gosho itself.

By contrast, the 2009 lecture is a promo teachinh that asserts from the off that Heritage is a teaching of mentor-disciple. One can still get hold of Selected lectures if people want to compare the two.

I think it's notable that Mr Ikeda was 81 years old when the latter lectures were published. Chas has admitted that Mr Ikeda is no longer running the show, I doubt very much he was when he was 81 years old either, which perhaps is the point.

The wider point is why SGI would not seek to also lecture on the other major writings, esoecialky Rissho Ankoku Ron. Why woukd ine seek to also encourage study of these works? That seems a big gap to me.

I don't need any encouragemnt to study Sutra and Gosho, think about it, chant about it and apply it. But there are many who find that difficult or bothersome, yet it's essential. Faith, practice and study, the three pillars of Buddhism. Practuce and study arise from faith. Nichiren says it doesn't he! So a respinsible organisation does what SGI did in the early days (at least in the early days) it facilitates it's membership to do just that, ideally to encourage direct study if the Gosho and Sutra.

An irresponsible organisation majes people dependent, it pre digests and interprets Gosho and Sutra, then slips into error as it does so and then starts asserting that the authors of those promo works (nominally Mr Ikeda) are teaching correctly and that only their interpretation is correct, even when it is demonstrably and clearly at variance. In so doing, it slips from being just irresponsible to actively harmful to it's members.

In short it becomes SGIkeda, where the Ikeda is a mythologised, idealised brand construction, along the lines of celebrity product endorsementvand bears little kr no rekationship to a real living, breathing, error prone human being. The Ikeda of today is exactly like any celebrity endorsing a product and their purpose is the same to get ine to buy something, to generate profit or influence for the corporation and to build brand loyalty to it.

It has little to do with SGI's past correct teaching and zero to do with liberation of individuals or betterment of society. These are just tools to harness people's time and money. "Ikeda / SGI coz your worth it" or the negative, "if you don't buy our product, use our service, you won't/can't"

Put simply it's become a scam.

It's interesting to compare and contrast the image projected in the public face of SGI in the shape of it's SGI Quarterly etc. with it's internal face through publications like World Tribilune ir tge activities if itcs membership as witnessed through the many you tube videos its members upload. You don't see the mentir disciple teaching emphasised in it's public face at all. It all seems quite reasonable, diverse even, quite at odds with what is served up to its members once they are in. It diesn't take much searching to see the difference.

Can you imagine SGI Quarterly referecing the many songs to praise the greatness of sensie or videos of members doung imitation fan dances? That would be really bad for business. Who wantcs to join a cilt or even take ehatcit says seriously? That's what SGI has become, some would say it always was. In my experience I'd disagree, in the UK in the early days it was a good thing but no longer.

Had I been more alert, in hindsight I would have left about 2010 but I wasn't, I didn't join the dots quickly enough, which is my responsibility.

Faith though, remains effective and for the good things I will always gave gratitude. It's sad really that SGI took the path it did and has but maybe that's how it had to be...

Hey ho...be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Richard, I'd forgotten that you are already aware of the Gohonzon and Gohonzon mandala thread, having commented in it! Had you forgotten too when you accused Katie of not mentioning Gohonzon? Seems like it or else you made your accusation knowingly, apology definitely in order me thinks!!! Lool, or you can join Chas in the naughty corner ;) tsk, tsk... :)

[n***@gmail.com]

You can write all you want but for you to interpret the use of Gohonzon as the only depiction of Nichiren mentioning The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is shallow and indeed faithless! What do you think Myoho Renge Kyo is? When Nichiren describes the ceremony in the air what do you think he is describing? And Nichiren's Lotus Sutra is not that of Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Your shallowness of faith is showing. I will end this futile attempt to disparage Nichiren's Buddhism with this!

In 'Reply to Kyo'o' Nichiren writes: "It is written that those who embrace the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra will be protected by the Mother of Demon Children and by the ten demon daughters. Such persons will enjoy the happiness of the wisdom king Craving-Filled and the good fortune of the heavenly king Vaishravana. Wherever your daughter may frolic or play, no harm will come to her; she will move about without fear like the lion king. Among the ten demon daughters, the protection of Kuntī is the most profound. But your faith alone will determine all these things. A sword is useless in the hands of a coward. The mighty sword of the Lotus Sutra must be wielded by one courageous in faith. Then one will be as strong as a demon armed with an iron staff. I, Nichiren, have inscribed my life in sumi ink, so believe in the Gohonzon with your whole heart. The Buddha’s will is the Lotus Sutra, but the soul of Nichiren is nothing other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."

With that I leave you to continue your blind and amusing hobby, which makes little sense of faith in Nichren's Buddhism.

Dispense with mixing Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra which has no power in this the Latter Day of the Law, with the Chanting of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo which is the True Lotus Sutra. The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!

Those of you reading this group of Statue Worshippers and Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra proponents must see through their distorted and esoteric views. By Relying on the Law and not upon Persons you will be guided by the Gohonzons truth for sure.

Sincerely Richard H Brown A Votary of the Lotus Sutra of the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Reng Kyo!

[n***@gmail.com]

"But your faith alone will determine all these things. A sword is useless in the hands of a coward. The mighty sword of the Lotus Sutra must be wielded by one courageous in faith. Then one will be as strong as a demon armed with an iron staff. I, Nichiren, have inscribed my life in sumi ink, so believe in the Gohonzon with your whole heart. The Buddha’s will is the Lotus Sutra, but the soul of Nichiren is nothing other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."
Reply to Kyo'o'

Since Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is Nichiren'a Soul, What do you think the Gohonzon is?

Sincerely, Your rants are amusing and elementary at best.

Enjoy your hobby😂😂😂

[i***@gmail.com]

Lool Richard, I notice Chas is absent today. Do you guys coordinate? No matter,I will simply ask you the sane question I asked John Tate, do you what you are talking about, have you directly and unequivocably experienced budhhahood?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Be well. :)

[i***@gmail.com]

You never did answer the question about your SGI membership suspension Richard. I presume your back in the fold and the SGI USA Leaders who according to you "feared you" have stopped quaking in their boots at your approach?

I guess in SGIkedaland a question = rant, just as inconvenient truth = lies, SGIkeda deception = not confusing the members (lies - poor dears their fragile selves just can't take it), authenic Gosho = not to be relied on in face of oral teachings of dubious authenticity (and certainly not where it contradicts SGIkeda promo commentary or, heaven forbid, Human Revolution / New Human Revolution).

I asked you another question Richard, just what get's enlightened? Answer that and you'll be someway along the way to showing us your understanding of just why faith is necessary.

I wonder if you can then pull out the relevant passage of the Sutra that details that. If a man of your stature needs a clue, which is doubtful given what you've told us about your extensive buddhist library and depth of understanding, it's in Essential Teaching. It appears twice, either section will do. By all means use the models of the 9 consciousnesses, five components and ten worlds etc. to illustrate.

You might also be able to surface for us the mechanism for the purification of the consciousnesses 8-1 and the activation of the positive sides of the nine worlds.

Of course one doesn't need to do any of this to benefit, all one needs to do is embrace the Sutra with faith and live based on this, since entry is through faith alone (which is kind of the point) but you seem to fancy yourself as a great and erudite teacher so it would be a shame to not have the benefit of your expansive knowledge eh?

Oh, and whilst you're about it, you might pull out the Gosho that underpins my statement "that's kind of the point", Nichiren is very, very explicit on that point, very precise in his reasoning. I'm sure you're completely familiar with the Gosho and tge rekevant section, will locate it with ease and are just bursting to share it with us.

There is a very good reason Nichiren taught as he did and established the three great secret Laws he did.

As for me, well I still make errors, which is why I've made my hobby into my life, it's so easy to be complacent, don't you think? Well for hobbiests anyhow, especially when one has accumulated knowledge and experience. And being a hobbiest, an amateur, not a pro like yourself, I have to keep chanting, studying and deepening my faith, I have to keep asking questions and trying my best.

But you're right about one thing, I do enjoy my hobby, to the very core of my being...


Be well :)

[n***@gmail.com]

Hello Lain, your rather insensitive and playful questionnon faith is both elementary and contrary to the spirit of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism! Everytime I face the Gohonzon and Chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Buddhahood is achieved yet you make arrogant and faithless comments on Buddhahood. My benefits are many and heartfelt. My youngest daughter was indanger of her life along with my wife during her pregnancy. Because if my faith in the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and my diligent study along with raising a wonderful district of sincere and dedicated youthful members who by the way have all shown tremendous proof in their lives. I trusted the Gohonzon and my wonderful leaders in N S A both of them are alive and happy! If I never saw another conspicuous benefit again in life I will still with gratitude and appreciation still revere and have deep faith in my Buddhahood.! I could go on but there is no need. Life is precious and every time I see my wife and daughter I see and feel Buddhahood!

Sincerely Richard

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Hello Lain, your rather insensitive and playful questionnon faith is both elementary and contrary to the spirit of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism! Everytime I face the Gohonzon and Chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Buddhahood is achieved yet you make arrogant and faithless comments on Buddhahood. My benefits are many and heartfelt. My youngest daughter was indanger of her life along with my wife during her pregnancy. Because if my faith in the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and my diligent study along with raising a wonderful district of sincere and dedicated youthful members who by the way have all shown tremendous proof in their lives. I trusted the Gohonzon and my wonderful leaders in N S A both of them are alive and happy! If I never saw another conspicuous benefit again in life I will still with gratitude and appreciation still revere and have deep faith in my Buddhahood.! I could go on but there is no need. Life is precious and every time I see my wife and daughter I see and feel Buddhahood!
Sincerely Richard

And yet your deprecating comments to me, a woman-- are reprehensible.

So much for your Buddhahood.

YOU are an infomercial for slander of the Law!

~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Hello Lain, your rather insensitive and playful questionnon faith is both elementary and contrary to the spirit of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism! Everytime I face the Gohonzon and Chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Buddhahood is achieved yet you make arrogant and faithless comments on Buddhahood. My benefits are many and heartfelt. My youngest daughter was indanger of her life along with my wife during her pregnancy. Because if my faith in the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and my diligent study along with raising a wonderful district of sincere and dedicated youthful members who by the way have all shown tremendous proof in their lives. I trusted the Gohonzon and my wonderful leaders in N S A both of them are alive and happy! If I never saw another conspicuous benefit again in life I will still with gratitude and appreciation still revere and have deep faith in my Buddhahood.! I could go on but there is no need. Life is precious and every time I see my wife and daughter I see and feel Buddhahood!
Sincerely Richard

Really? Your deprecating comments to me appear to come from the lower worlds-- as far as *respecting women goes*-- you are way down in the lower worlds.

So much for your Buddhahood -- or rather your half baked idea that you are already, Buddha!

You are an infomercial for slander of the Law.

~Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

"Hello Lain, your rather insensitive and playful questionnon faith is both elementary and contrary to the spirit of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism! Everytime I face the Gohonzon and Chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Buddhahood is achieved yet you make arrogant and faithless comments on Buddhahood."

Thanks Richard but I didn't ask about faith, not benefit, I asked about direct experience.

As for me, I doubt you do have that expeience have for the simple reason that if you had sat down, chanted and been successful in bringing forth buddhahood, looking with the buddha eye, you would know that this statement is in error "arrogant and faithless" you would have been able to disern the truth of the matter.

I notice you dodged all the other questions too, at the very least I'd have expected one passage of Sutra and perhaps a well reasoned push back.


Let's be really clear, it is you who came to this forum eith fawning oraise that quickly turned to disparagemnet and abuse of others, esoecially if tge disagreed even in the politest way. It is you who sermonised and chided other contributors as inferior in theur faith, understanding etc. etc. It is you wgi boasted if your expensive buddhist library and belittled others. It's you who announced your suspension from SGI USA and declared that it's leaders fear you and that your reputation is known far and wide. I asked given all the bad things you said about SGI USA, why you hadn't left. I didn't get a straight answer to that either.

In my earlier post I am playing all that back to you, your own declartions, your own behaviour. Of course it's uncomfortable Richard, facing it and owning it is a sign of strength and maturity.

It is impossible for you, let alone me to fathom your karma, so I won't try but I wonder, if your faith, practice and knowledge is as you say and you have been practicing as long as you say, what were you like when you first started?

I will leave readers to look at your postings and deleted postings in the archive to decide of your claims are true. Perhaps you could do likewise.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

"Really? Your deprecating comments to me appear to come from the lower worlds-- as far as *respecting women goes*"

I agree Katie, I found the reaction of many of the so called it rather enlightened and adept in this forum when I commented on the tone, style of this forum, almost all male, in terms of it's welcomingness and inclusiveness to women. The onky wiman ti soeak was dismissed and belittled. Thr irony of those negative reactions in the context of Nichiren's life, his following and constant efforts to be encouraging and supportive to women was lost on thise supposed enlightened male commentators.

They just don't seem to get the Lotus Sutra and it's radical departure from a Buddhism that routinely treated women as filthy and impure, incapable of enlightenment and thousands of years of treating women thus, with very few culural exceptions. In short, they don't seem to have read or understood Nichiren's writings to his female followers and more importantly, what they are likely to have meant to such in that context. And yet these are the same who would claim for themselves greater wisdom, knowledge and understanding, buddhahood even but are at the same time unable to see from anothers eyes across the gender boundaries, or even attempt to. They are also the first to bandy accusations of egotism at others and not look at their own.

If it weren't so sad it would be laughable.

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

Be well :)

[Julian]

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.

There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith. Your egoistic bent is obvious, as you criticize with authority you do not possess.

You are a heckler and a troll-- disrupting when Chas is defeated.

Alex blew your cover awhile back-- you only validate his spot on assessment of your presence here.

And it certainly is NOT about Buddhism.

~Katie

[Julian]

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith.

You are not an authority on such matters.

[i***@gmail.com]

"Yank, tinkle" Julian. You're nothing if not totally predictable. I see your collar with it's obliging little bell is still firmly attached and you've not gotten rid of your lead.

You should have read in regarding Pavlov, learned helplessness is an interesting effect.

In the second part of that rather cruel experiment, the dogs wouldn't move away from their suffering despite the leads restraining them being removed. Not that is until the experimenters intervened to lead them away from the source of their suffering and recondition them to freedom of choice.

It seems there's a place for interfering types after all.

As I said. You're so busy being a light unto yourself, you fail to notice that your illumination doesn't spread very far, in fact it's just about as big as the fag paper you measure your tiny world by. You don't seem to have discovered "penetrating" yet or understood it's meaning. It will come...eventually.

The purpose of Buddhism is to become a Buddha, in case you hadn't noticed. And the reason for a Buddha's appearance in the world is to open the buddha wisdom to all living beings...interfering types. Tsk!

Perhaps you should read the Sutra? Expedient Means would be a good chapter to read and digest. Just a thought ;)

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
"Yank, tinkle" Julian. You're nothing if not totally predictable. I see your collar with it's obliging little bell is still firmly attached and you've not gotten rid of your lead.
You should have read in regarding Pavlov, learned helplessness is an interesting effect.
In the second part of that rather cruel experiment, the dogs wouldn't move away from their suffering despite the leads restraining them being removed. Not that is until the experimenters intervened to lead them away from the source of their suffering and recondition them to freedom of choice.
It seems there's a place for interfering types after all.
As I said. You're so busy being a light unto yourself, you fail to notice that your illumination doesn't spread very far, in fact it's just about as big as the fag paper you measure your tiny world by. You don't seem to have discovered "penetrating" yet or understood it's meaning. It will come...eventually.
The purpose of Buddhism is to become a Buddha, in case you hadn't noticed. And the reason for a Buddha's appearance in the world is to open the buddha wisdom to all living beings...interfering types. Tsk!
Perhaps you should read the Sutra?

I don't doubt you have read it.
I don't doubt you haven't got it.

[i***@gmail.com]

And you think your opinion counts for anything where my understanding or lack thereof is concerned?

But since you think you have such a great understanding, please do share it. Now is your chance to illucidate the fruits of your enlightenment.

This is going to be fun... :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith.

You are not an authority on such matters.

Nor do I recognize you as an authority or a judge on such matters.

But you do manage to derail the conversations that are most revealing of Chas' ignorance and behaviors not so unlike your own.

I don't correlate "troll activity" with bodhisattva practice--

You disrupt and bring confusion to these discussions--

That is a display of disregard for those seeking the Law

That is slander.

~Katie

[Julian]

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith.

You are not an authority on such matters.

Nor do I recognize you as an authority or a judge on such matters.
But you do manage to derail the conversations that are most revealing of Chas' ignorance and behaviors not so unlike your own.
I don't correlate "troll activity" with bodhisattva practice--
You disrupt and bring confusion to these discussions--

That you are confused and disrupted by my comments
proves only one thing... you are not buddhist.

[i***@gmail.com]

Katie, Julian has put himself into thr same corner as Richard. This is what Julian is going to do now:

A) stay silent or
B) attempt a "witty", sarcastic, dismissive, or clever comment
C) make an excuse for not illucidating the fruits of his enlightenment

This is what he not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".

Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

It places him within a bubble of safety where he can maintain the apperance of superiority. It's the same kind of thing that most mystics and fakirs hsve been doing since time in memorial. Less is more, iy creates a mystique. Great for branding yourself and no doubt selling your work. Lousy when your critiquing others for their faith.

It allows him to throw rocks without opening himself up to the scrutiny of debate. You'll never get his reasoning or even a clear veiw of what Julian believes, why and how he got there. Just a critique of others and poor use of terms like "ego" (thrown of course as a barb) before quietly adopting the correct use if egoism once his mistske was pojnted out (if you're going to throw a term as a barb at least have the decency to throw the right one).

One thing we do know about Julian though, is that he really rates Chas for his real faith, which is demonstrated through Chas's action to post duplicate toxic zen postings over on the Alt Zen forum and get completely ignored, like Julian, by the forum's inhabitants. "Effectiveness" doesn't seem to have made it's way into either of their vocabularies. No doubt it's the action alone that counts.

Oh, and we also know that the only reason anyone would bother to practice is because they are suffering enough. In fact, Julian wouldn't dream of encouraging practice until someone is really, really suffering - compassionate eh?

On the up side he can be quite entertaining sometimes and in rare momrnts, he'll share something worthwhile. One can but hope he'll do more of the latter... :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Lool well wouldn't you know it, it turned out to be B). So predicatable.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Thanks Julian but this:

"That you are confused and disrupted by my comments proves only one thing... you are not buddhist."

From this:

"You disrupt and bring confusion to these discussions"

Proves one thing - you can't read.

The operator "you" wasn't in Katie's sentenence, it was introduced by you. Nobody's confused by that nor did you disrupt.

Admittedly, Katie's shorthand omitted the words "attempt to" (confuse and disrupt) but then she's probably used to dealing with more straightforward people. I've had the pleasure of you, Chas and Richard and I notice things, in Richard's case before he had even had chance to reveal his hand. Spot on, wasn't I? Bang on the money. Now how did I do that?...

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith.

You are not an authority on such matters.

Nor do I recognize you as an authority or a judge on such matters.
But you do manage to derail the conversations that are most revealing of Chas' ignorance and behaviors not so unlike your own.
I don't correlate "troll activity" with bodhisattva practice--
You disrupt and bring confusion to these discussions--

That you are confused and disrupted by my comments
proves only one thing... you are not buddhist.

More to the point Julian-
Did you read the content of this post? That would entail opening the links provided. The topic is a commentary on the refutation of the Ongi Kuden-- one of the main documents in the *ambiguous corpus that form the basis for the doctrines of the SGI* ALSO in dispute.

Richard cannot address the points I copied from the links.
You offer commentary on who is or isn't Buddhist, or whether a commenter *gets the Lotus Sutra"- nary a word on the topic.

There is nothing--so far, in your comments that suggests you have an interest in the posts --


Let's discuss the "topic", shall we, JULIAN?

How do we explain the great divergence between the Ongi Kudon and the Lotus Sutra on this specific point regarding Shakyamnui's status as the Original Buddha?

In the Ongi Kuden we read:

“This Myoho-renge-kyo (Lotus Sutra) is not Shakyamuni’s Mystic Law, because at the time this chapter was preached, he had already entrusted it to Bodhisattva Jogyo.” (Gosho, p. 1783)

In the Kanjin Honzon Sho (The True Object of Worship), the most important writing of Nichiren Daishonin, we read,

“Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five charecters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples since the eternal past, who had sprung up from under ground.” Kanjin Honzon Sho, pp 122 to 140, NOPPA 1991.

and in the Lotus Sutra we read:

“At that time the Buddha spoke to Superior Practices and the others in the great assembly of bodhisattvas, saying: “The supernatural powers of the Buddhas, as you have seen, are immeasurable, boundless, inconceivable. If in the process of entrusting this sutra (Myoho renge kyo) to others I were to employ these supernatural powers for a measurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas to describe the benefits of the sutra, I could never finish doing so. To put it briefly, all the doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One, the storehouse of all the secret essentials of the Thus Come One – all these are proclaimed, revealed, and clearly expounded in this sutra.”(Myoho renge kyo). (Lotus Sutra Chapter 21)

I wonder why Nichiren would make such a statement that contradicts both the Lotus Sutra and his previous teachings ? It is NOT Shakyamnui's Mystic Law? To me that sounds like the notion of someone who is planning to steal this *excellent medicine* , and it makes no sense that Nichiren himself would steal from Shakyamuni.

What say you,Julian?

~Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

To be fair Katie, Julian is we aware of the status of the Ongi Kuden and has challenged others about taking it as Nichiren's work. He has also read Gosho transations other than SGI (though still Burton Watson).

Julian seems to havr a thing about what he sees as the aggressive protelysing or fundementalism of some and like Chas, certainly doesn't like "being told what to do" or "controlled". Like most who push back hard on thise grounds, he misses the paradox of his own behaviour. He squares this by admitting to hypocrisy, or trying to turn it around so it's whovever is pointing that out's problem.

Julian holds just as rigid veiw as Chas, which is probably why they get along and they seem to have in common that everyone else has got it wrong, e.g. Julian and Chas are superior, though of course being a Brit. Julian's superiority is carefully understated. He wouldn't dream of actually saying that openly, too crass and vulgar. Which is a great excuse to avoid debate or even needing to explain oneself.

I doubt you'll get much from him. Taje it from me Brits may look kind of the same, speak sort of the same language but we are competely different from you guys, Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians. In the UK class mentality is still deeply embedded in the UK psyche. Aussies just laugh at us, rightly, tgey don't guve a fig about class distinctions, it's who you are and what you do that counts. Likewise, within the cities, especially London, the mixing of peoples has chipped away at that nonsense. Which is often why the Brits who emigrate hang onto an identity that is at best a fantasy and rooted back in the past.

Have a good day :)

[Julian]

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

"Rea..

Some crap cut.
Some crap left...

No doubt Julian will chime in with one of his trite attempts to defend his position and distance himself from actually taking any responsibility. He's too busy being a light unto himself. Unfortinately his illumination doesn't seem to extend much beyond himself.

You "interfering with others" types will never "get" Buddhism.
There is not a fag paper between you and the worst of the
proselytising Christians with your illuminating other people
conceits.

Julian you have no true understanding of Nichiren's teachings and therefore, no faith.

You are not an authority on such matters.

Nor do I recognize you as an authority or a judge on such matters.
But you do manage to derail the conversations that are most revealing of Chas' ignorance and behaviors not so unlike your own.
I don't correlate "troll activity" with bodhisattva practice--
You disrupt and bring confusion to these discussions--

That you are confused and disrupted by my comments
proves only one thing... you are not buddhist.

More to the point Julian-
Did you read the content of this post? That would entail opening the links provided. The topic is a commentary on the refutation of the Ongi Kuden-- one of the main documents in the *ambiguous corpus that form the basis for the doctrines of the SGI* ALSO in dispute.
Richard cannot address the points I copied from the links.
You offer commentary on who is or isn't Buddhist, or whether a commenter *gets the Lotus Sutra"- nary a word on the topic.
There is nothing--so far, in your comments that suggests you have an interest in the posts --
Let's discuss the "topic", shall we, JULIAN?
How do we explain the great divergence between the Ongi Kudon and the Lotus Sutra on this specific point regarding Shakyamnui's status as the Original Buddha?
“This Myoho-renge-kyo (Lotus Sutra) is not Shakyamuni’s Mystic Law, because at the time this chapter was preached, he had already entrusted it to Bodhisattva Jogyo.” (Gosho, p. 1783)
In the Kanjin Honzon Sho (The True Object of Worship), the most important writing of Nichiren Daishonin, we read,
“Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five charecters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples since the eternal past, who had sprung up from under ground.” Kanjin Honzon Sho, pp 122 to 140, NOPPA 1991.
“At that time the Buddha spoke to Superior Practices and the others in the great assembly of bodhisattvas, saying: “The supernatural powers of the Buddhas, as you have seen, are immeasurable, boundless, inconceivable. If in the process of entrusting this sutra (Myoho renge kyo) to others I were to employ these supernatural powers for a measurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas to describe the benefits of the sutra, I could never finish doing so. To put it briefly, all the doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One, the storehouse of all the secret essentials of the Thus Come One – all these are proclaimed, revealed, and clearly expounded in this sutra.”(Myoho renge kyo). (Lotus Sutra Chapter 21)
I wonder why Nichiren would make such a statement that contradicts both the Lotus Sutra and his previous teachings ? It is NOT Shakyamnui's Mystic Law? To me that sounds like the notion of someone who is planning to steal this *excellent medicine* , and it makes no sense that Nichiren himself would steal from Shakyamuni.
What say you,Julian?

What I say is that your posts are, for a combination of
logical fallacies such as appeals to authority and poorly
grasped jargon, pretty much unreadable and absolutely
unconducive to edification.

[i***@gmail.com]

Yet more baiting Julian? Let's get down to business shall we? It's time for you to set out your stall. Let readers see what you've got to offer then they can compare and contrast and make their own minds up.

But you won't will you, because you cannot. My earlier post holds then doesn't it? Lool.

"What I say is that your posts are, for a combination of
logical fallacies such as appeals to authority and poorly
grasped jargon, pretty much unreadable and absolutely unconducive to edification."

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,

This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".

Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

It places him within a bubble of safety where he can maintain the apperance of superiority. It's the same kind of thing that most mystics and fakirs hsve been doing since time in memorial. Less is more, iy creates a mystique. Great for branding yourself and no doubt selling your work. Lousy when your critiquing others for their faith.

It allows him to throw rocks without opening himself up to the scrutiny of debate. You'll never get his reasoning or even a clear veiw of what Julian believes, why and how he got there. Just a critique of others and poor use of terms like "ego" (thrown of course as a barb) before quietly adopting the correct use if egoism once his mistske was pojnted out (if you're going to throw a term as a barb at least have the decency to throw the right one).

One thing we do know about Julian though, is that he really rates Chas for his real faith, which is demonstrated through Chas's action to post duplicate toxic zen postings over on the Alt Zen forum and get completely ignored, like Julian, by the forum's inhabitants. "Effectiveness" doesn't seem to have made it's way into either of their vocabularies. No doubt it's the action alone that counts.

Oh, and we also know that the only reason anyone would bother to practice is because they are suffering enough. In fact, Julian wouldn't dream of encouraging practice until someone is really, really suffering - compassionate eh?

On the up side he can be quite entertaining sometimes and in rare momrnts, he'll share something worthwhile. One can but hope he'll do more of the latter... :)

[i***@gmail.com]

:D

[Katie Higgins]

So-- what purpose does Julian's cameo appearances serve? Does he fancy himself a judge? I view him like Simon the former ogre on the "American Idol" panel -/ entertainment value ? vs. steering readers away from the significance of topics - and making persons and personalities the focus?

Cheers !
~ Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

He can't any longer Katie. He's put himself in a box along with Chas and Richard. I suggest we just get along and focus on the positive stuff.

Although, what we may find is that Chas, Richard and Julian retire to be replaced by some new identities who use the same. With a bit of luck that won't happen but I guess it depends on the size of the percieved threat or the desperation of the troll to scramble for the crumbs of power they don't possess in real life. Best ignored now is my take.

They've all left their reference points in the forum now. Chas, Richard and now Julian, readers cam be quickly directed to those points. So Julian's "fly paper" has no adhesion for anyone else but those three. Which means everone else can get on and get along.

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,
This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".
Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN.

I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself.

If you are serious about asking me questions first
study the archive to check I haven't answered already.

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Julian

Post by i***@gmail.com
This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,
This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".
Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN.
I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself.
If you are serious about asking me questions first
study the archive to check I haven't answered already.

Yes, I have appreciated the difference in your much older comments in the archive. you once participated in discussion-- a skill you must have lost?

You chose to comment now in the mode of a troll.

Also noting your *transformation* seems lower in the 10 worlds-- instead of the other, expected direction, when one has correct faith and practice.

You could learn something about what you are doing to appear this way--

If you don't-- well, then maybe you are afflicted, like Chas, with the pernicious effect of slander of the Law and are unable to perceive what many see clearly.

~Katie

[Julian]

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by i***@gmail.com
This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,
This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".
Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN.
I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself.
If you are serious about asking me questions first
study the archive to check I haven't answered already.

Yes, I have appreciated the difference in your much older comments in the archive. you once participated in discussion-- a skill you must have lost?

It takes two to Tango.

Being flooded with an avalanche of ill-understood Gosho quotes,
parrot droppings... a discussion does not make.

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by i***@gmail.com
This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,
This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".
Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN.
I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself.
If you are serious about asking me questions first
study the archive to check I haven't answered already.

Yes, I have appreciated the difference in your much older comments in the archive. you once participated in discussion-- a skill you must have lost?

It takes two to Tango.
Being flooded with an avalanche of ill-understood Gosho quotes,
parrot droppings... a discussion does not make.

And the reason you do not move on to greener, more fruitful forums?

Because you entertain the self indulgent notion that your crude assessments are appreciated?

I suppose you would argue that t is your sincere practice of the Lotus Sutra that has inflated your small ego to these profane proportions?

To a great extent you are PR for the *poster boy* Chas-- bot of you are great illustrations of the warning labels for practicing lesser teachings and slandering true followers of Nichiren.

~Katie

[Julian]

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by Katie Higgins

Post by Julian

Post by i***@gmail.com
This is the relevant bit or the earlier post Jules,
This is what he (Julian) is not going to do - explain his understanding of the Sutra, his "getting it" by which he is necessarily measuring other's "not getting it".
Why? Because to do so exposes him. Julian is necessarily spare with his comments and arguments.

I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN.
I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself.
If you are serious about asking me questions first
study the archive to check I haven't answered already.

Yes, I have appreciated the difference in your much older comments in the archive. you once participated in discussion-- a skill you must have lost?

It takes two to Tango.
Being flooded with an avalanche of ill-understood Gosho quotes,
parrot droppings... a discussion does not make.

And the reason you do not move on to greener, more fruitful forums?

I like USENET because it is impossible to censor.
I have no need to move on as there's plenty for me
to do on my current USENET subscriptions.

Post by Katie Higgins
Because...

crap cut.

[i***@gmail.com]

That's a cop out Julian and just in case you hadn't noticed we're not in 1996, we're 20 years on. So your tactuc of throwing the onus back into the reader to search through your unindexed posts, using the frankly limited search capabilities of this forum, fails.

"I've been relatively generous with my comments and arguments
since September 1996 as can be seen in the archive of 10000
or so of my posts to ARBN."

The onus is entirely on you (if you want to be taken seriously) if you are going to make statements about your understanding, capability etc. or disparaging others, to either by set out your argument, in that exchange with that contributor, or to reference and link to the relevant postings.

But you cannot do that Julian for the same reason readers would find it hard. A) you have no clear position and have made no cogent argument B) you have made none such in the "generous postings of your past.

"I'm under no obligation and have received no inducement
to repeat myself."

Of course your not under an obligation nor should you need to be induced. It's your little box you've put yourself in Julian, I'm not going to obligate not induce you to climb out of it, you'll stay wothin it's confines for as long as you feel comfortable there or until you outgrow it and want to climb out.

It's not about you matey, thus is all about your lack of credibility, clever ploys won't get you out if the corner you've painted yourself into. Yiu can simply either be ignored as the Zen forum does with you or dudmissed with a link back to this thread.

Like Chas and Richard, you were given an opportunity to clearly set out your stall and demonstrate you knew what you were talking about, like both of them, you failed to - end of.

"If you are serious about asking me questions first study the archive to check I haven't answered already"

There's rarely anything to ask you questions on, you give nothing, that's your defence. Besides which your position here is at odds with the rare occassions you have answered a straight question with a straight answer.

And on that last note, you do realise that you have just told the forum that since 1996, your thinking and understanding hasn't changed or evolved. 20 years of total stagnation. Fantastic answer Julian. Well done, that's almost as good as an answer Chas might give.

So that must mean that you think you had reached a perfect understanding 20 years ago and that reality and your life is unchanging. No need to revisit and repeat. No errors. Lool. Nichiren's thought evolved, the Lotus Sutra

I must say that makes a lot of sense of your posting. In spite of yourself and even from the confines of your little box, I'd say you'd just set out your stall and elucidated your beliefs very well.

I don't expect you'd agree but as you're like to say ad nauseum "if we agreed, one of us would be cheating" lool, somethings don't change and apparently, according to you, you don't, for 20 years. No wonder you get on so well with Chas. ;)


Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
That's a cop out Julian and just in case you hadn't noticed we're not in 1996, we're 20 years on. So your tactuc of throwing the onus back into the reader to search through your unindexed posts, using the frankly limited search capabilities of this forum, fails.

Google Groups has an adequately searchable archive
of ARBN posts dating back before I arrived in 1996..

If someone wants to know what I think the onus
is not on me to do their work.

Ask Katie to help you learn how to use the archive.

[i***@gmail.com]

And now a defensive Julian, on the back foot.

Nope Julian, that won't do. Just like Chas, if you make an argument or assertion the onus is in you to back it up, not the other person. That is if you want to retain any shred of credibility. Otherwise you can safely be ignored and dismissed.

And even if you want to play silly infant games from the confines of your little box, with your tirchbulb illumination (which probably looks impressive in such a confined space), it still doesn't change the fact that you are effectively saying that your thought and understanding hasn't changed over that 20 year period.

You matey, haven't evolved, thatcs wgat you are trlling me, Katie and anyine else reading. You have stood still, stagnated and yet you live in a phenomenal reality, in a constant state of flux, which is empty of self.

That's Buddist teaching Julian, you know, the one you have understood so well.

We can get into discussions about suchness, the balance to emptyness but really I don't see the point. After all, I'd have to search the archive to dig out the stale arguments you may possibly have made before. And then what? You'll either claim they are or are not still valid.

Did you just notice the limited amount of power you thought you had by using such a ploy, trickle away through the cracks in your little box?

Don't play with me Jules, you lack the requisite variety to do so but I must say, it's entertaining and the playfulness in me enjoys the game. ;)

Yank, tinkle... how's that collar, lead and bell you wear with such pride?

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
And now a defensive Julian, on the back foot.
Nope Julian, that won't do.

Looks like you have a problem then.

[i***@gmail.com]

"Looks like you have a problem then."

And now the admission of defeat. You just keep in giving.

Nah Jules, you're no bother, little boxes and their inhabitants can be safely stacked away and forgotten.

Box troll comes to mind but that would be unfair to the movie.

See ya Julian, by all means join the discussion when you've got something worth saying. Until then, be well. :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Richard, you do like deleting your messages. It's not very considerate of readers. Why you'd want to delete thus I can't think, so here it is again.

Readers can read it in the flow of the thread over in the archive here:

http://alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.narkive.com/r4e0RWso/those-like-richard-who-think-themselves-well-versed-in-buddhism-are-the-ones-who-make-the-most

And the Archive home is here:

http://alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.narkive.com/

Richard's deleted message:

"You can write all you want but for you to interpret the use of Gohonzon as the only depiction of Nichiren mentioning The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is shallow and indeed faithless! What do you think Myoho Renge Kyo is? When Nichiren describes the ceremony in the air what do you think he is describing? And Nichiren's Lotus Sutra is not that of Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Your shallowness of faith is showing. I will end this futile attempt to disparage Nichiren's Buddhism with this!

In 'Reply to Kyo'o' Nichiren writes: "It is written that those who embrace the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra will be protected by the Mother of Demon Children and by the ten demon daughters. Such persons will enjoy the happiness of the wisdom king Craving-Filled and the good fortune of the heavenly king Vaishravana. Wherever your daughter may frolic or play, no harm will come to her; she will move about without fear like the lion king. Among the ten demon daughters, the protection of Kuntī is the most profound. But your faith alone will determine all these things. A sword is useless in the hands of a coward. The mighty sword of the Lotus Sutra must be wielded by one courageous in faith. Then one will be as strong as a demon armed with an iron staff. I, Nichiren, have inscribed my life in sumi ink, so believe in the Gohonzon with your whole heart. The Buddha’s will is the Lotus Sutra, but the soul of Nichiren is nothing other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."

With that I leave you to continue your blind and amusing hobby, which makes little sense of faith in Nichren's Buddhism.

Dispense with mixing Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra which has no power in this the Latter Day of the Law, with the Chanting of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo which is the True Lotus Sutra. The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!

Those of you reading this group of Statue Worshippers and Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra proponents must see through their distorted and esoteric views. By Relying on the Law and not upon Persons you will be guided by the Gohonzons truth for sure.

Sincerely Richard H Brown A Votary of the Lotus Sutra of the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Reng Kyo!"

[i***@gmail.com]

The distance between Julian's assertions and reality...

Me:

So your tactic of throwing the onus back into the reader to search through your unindexed posts, using the frankly limited search capabilities of this forum, fails.

Julian:

Google Groups has an adequately searchable archiv of ARBN posts dating back before I arrived in 1996

Reality:

Google, a Search Company, Has Made Its Internet Archive Impossible to Search

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-internet-archive-impossible-to-search

For well over a decade, Google has maintained one of the internet’s most important historical archives—a collection of over 800 million messages from discussion groups dating back to 1981. And much to the chagrin of online researchers, the company has been doing a really bad job.

In December, users discovered they could no longer search for posts across the archive by date. Google, a search engine, had made its archive impossible to search.

"The Usenet archive in Google Groups is an invaluable resource for historians when it comes to researching events that occurred in the '80s and '90s," wrote Kate Willaert in a post to Google support describing researchers’ latest woes. Now? Not so much.

Usenet was where the majority of online discussions took place in the early 1980s and 1990s—a network of topics, or newsgroups, where users could post and read messages on everything from politics to music. A service called DejaNews launched in 1995 in attempt to archive and preserve this wealth of early internet content, and Google acquired DejaNews, along with other historical archives, in 2001.

But the problem, according to Willaert and other researchers, is the way Google Groups now handles searches for posts before or after certain dates. "The "before:YYYY/MM/DD" and "after:YYYY/MM/DD" terms have stopped working, and it also appears to no longer be possible to search by date," Willaert wrote. It is, apparently, a recent change.

"I don't understand the point of having 30 years of Usenet archived if you can't search it with any accuracy," wrote Neil Cicierega—yes, that Neil Cicierega—in response to Willaert’s post.

"For several years (and through UI overhauls), Google Groups maintained an Advanced Search page which provided intensely robust searching dating back to 1981," wrote Rehn in an email. But at some point in 2013, the Advanced Search page was removed, and most of its capabilities moved to arcane text-based search operators. Then, at the end of last year, "the date-based search operators (before: and after:) stopped working entirely" said Rehn—only for global searches across the whole Usenet archive, but still, a fundamental feature for those who are researching archival topics and don’t know where to start."

An even smaller box now Julian, soon not even a lil troll will fit into it! You may have to get even smaller to fit your box. Lool.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Oh that was a 2015 Motherboard article by the way.

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
The distance between Julian's assertions and reality...
So your tactic of throwing the onus back into the reader to search through your unindexed posts, using the frankly limited search capabilities of this forum, fails.
Google Groups has an adequately searchable archiv of ARBN posts dating back before I arrived in 1996
Google, a Search Company, Has Made Its Internet Archive Impossible to Search
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-internet-archive-impossible-to-search
For well over a decade, Google has maintained one of the internet’s most important historical archives—a collection of over 800 million messages from discussion groups dating back to 1981. And much to the chagrin of online researchers, the company has been doing a really bad job.
In December, users discovered they could no longer search for posts across the archive by date.

The article says nothing about not being able to search by author,
subject or key word.

But since you are unable to find a post that I wrote on a particular day
some years back I'll grant you a little leeway and answer your
question.... but only one at a time.

I will ignore any questions that contain assumptions about
answers to questions I haven't yet given.

For example....

Q1. Do you like brown or white bread?

Followed before my answer by

Q2. Why don't you like white bread?

Your posts are often containing strings of questions
that follow your assumptions on answers not received.

[i***@gmail.com]

Back in your lil box Jules. The issue is ease of searching. The key oart of thr article is the withdtawal of an interface, advanced search, that enables that ease. It's basic UX design. User centred design.

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Back in your lil box Jules. The issue is ease of searching. The key oart of thr article is the withdtawal of an interface, advanced search, that enables that ease. It's basic UX design. User centred design.
Be well :)

The "advance search" option still exists when I access Google Groups.
(I checked this very morning specifically on ARBN.)

[i***@gmail.com]

Nope, that's a search not an advanced search function Jules. The latter allows different parameters as discrete entities.

And the functionality in the search is as I would have it, limited, certainly noy "adequate".

The nub of the issue from a user centric point of veiw is that the onus is in you to back up your arguments by referncing your posts and providing easy access to them, not the user. They shouldn't havr to search at all, let alone by a clunky interface.

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Nope, that's a search not an advanced search function Jules. The latter allows different parameters as discrete entities.

The "advanced search" that allows "allows different parameters as
discrete entities" is still there.

[i***@gmail.com]

PS that you are posting so early and using a different voice says it all. Gone is "I would laugh in their face if someone said..." line. Now you are defending, you have to, your project is unravelling.

Even smaller box now Jules. You love downsizing, that's clear!

Have a good day, if you can.

Interesting use of "containing" by the way, I'd have put "contain" and so would you once. It's usually an error that non native English speakers make but we'll give you the benefit if the doubt. It's hard to write in a lil box...

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

"The "advanced search" that allows "allows different parameters as
discrete entities" is still there."

Well if that's true Julian, 1) the Motherboard article must be wrong and all the interviewees in it or 2) the UI has been reinstated since the articke was published in 2015. Which one is it Julian, 1 or 2 ? Be clear.

And if it's true and clearly you are so adept and familiar with the interface that you needed to go and check, that's even less excuse for you not to reference your posts correctly and provide easy access to them. Easy search means it's easy for you to locate the relevant posts and provide links for readers to access them. After all you should know what you're looking for and which search terms to use, readers don't.

Smaller box still Jules and now getting getting tiny.

Your posts earlier today saw you admit that when you made your play to put the onus in the reader to search your history of posting, you were unfamiliar enough with the Google Groups interface to have to go and check. Therefore you were completely unable to assess how easy or difficult that would be for readers to search, when you tried to place the onus onto them.

Or are you saying you knew full well but were pretending not to? Which one Julian?

Each time you respond you give more information, like Chas your patterns emerge, the crosslinks, commonalities, deviations and errors develop and show themselves. Your changes in behavoiur, voice and tone and I notice it all and so do others and then I highlight them. So each time the box you have built around yourself gets smaller and smaller and stronge and stronger.

Like I said, you love downsizing.

Had you been straightforward you wouldn't have a problem but you're not and I suspect you can't be, you simply don't have enough knowledge, skill or power, which like Chas and Richard, which is probably why you're so touchy about feeling controlled or "interfering types" and so keen to try to exert yourself from a position of feigned superiority.

Albeit your apporach is more spare, Chas and Richard write tomes, you stick mainly to one liners, less is more but it amounts to the same thing.

But let's return to the thread and focus you on your earliest exchanges with Mark, in those you are suggesting there is more than one Julian and you must be a different one. Then later you show that your thought hasn't evolved over 20 years.

Actually, you may be right on the first point, account impersonation is entirely possible, plausible even.

As for your "6,000 miles apart from Chas" to Alex's post:

A) how would you even know this if you didn't know where Chas was or coordinate with him (assuming he is a real person or not a group of individuals employed to post through that identity)?

B) It is extremely easy to appear to be located in any in any place you want to be, regardless of where you're physically located - you know that Julian, only too well.

As for me, I take nothing for granted on the net, nor would I advise that for others. I give benefit of the doubt and treat in good faith but it's wise to stay alert, no?

No doubt you'll snip or do a oneliner, we might also get treated to a "crap", also beloved of Chas (and most people who can't answer or support tgeir arguments.)

Hey ho...we have a choice to engage, dismiss or ignore.

On a side note, I indexed the forum to make it more accessible and did so precisely because it wasn't. For those who hide in the morass of data, that was the beginning of the end. Just as the net was for the SGI information bubble. Once infirmation becomes easy to access but the greater number of people, controlling it in order to shape perceptions, play games or attempt deceipt becomes increasingly difficult. As you've just found out.

Be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
"The "advanced search" that allows "allows different parameters as
discrete entities" is still there."
Well if that's true Julian, 1) the Motherboard article must be wrong and all the interviewees in it or 2) the UI has been reinstated since the articke was published in 2015. Which one is it Julian, 1 or 2 ? Be clear.

The "advanced search" that allows "allows different parameters as
discrete entities" is still there as of 18:15pm Friday 29/072016.

[i***@gmail.com]

Perfect, thanks Julian, that's all we needed. Exactly the same response as Chas gives in the same situation.

I'm surpised you can fit into your box now, yet you're safely contained and can be stacked away. Thanks for downsizing by the way, saves space, very obliging.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

"For several years (and through UI overhauls), Google Groups maintained an Advanced Search page which provided intensely robust searching dating back to 1981,"

For readers convenience Julian, please provide the link to to Advanced Search page.

:)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
"For several years (and through UI overhauls), Google Groups maintained an Advanced Search page which provided intensely robust searching dating back to 1981,"
For readers convenience Julian, please provide the link to to Advanced Search page.

Click on the tiny triangle at the right hand side of the search box.

[i***@gmail.com]

What you mean the tiny triangle that is only implemented now at grouo level amd not on mobile version of the site Julian, is that the one you mean Jules?

Which century are you living in?

So again, back to ease of access. Your position is that readers should search through your 10,000 posts by keeping up with a non usercentic UI, that varies it's implemnetation by device type searching by keywords and other criteria, which even if one gets them spot in may still not find a post that exists etc. And that if they happrn to be using a mobile device, will have to switch to desktop in order to do that. Is that what you are suggesting?

Lool.

So back to the ploy, your stated position is that you shouldn't have to set out your beliefs etc. because you've posted since 1996 and others should first search the archive of your posts to see if a question has been answered. That you have no intention of repeating yourself.

Just so we're clear on that.


But to do that, the onus is shifted onto the reader to search. Therefore the knowledge they will have to have is of the keywords that nay or may not have been used in your 10k of posts. To use an advanced search option, they will have to use the desktop version of the site and will have to know to do that. Then they will have to be at group level because the UI implemntation of search is not consistent across home and group level. And even then, hitting on the right terms, they may not find a post that is there and matches.

This is your definition of "adequate search" Julian. Just so we're really clear.

The only problem with that is, as you well know, is that it is not very accessible and would not pass current user centric design priciples and practice.

It assumes the readers/participator must have far too much user skill and knowledge about the interface, unrelated to the use case, which here is to discuss the topic at hand. And even of they possess that level of expertise, they may fail in the task at hand. In this caseocating a lost that may ir may not exist in your 10,000.

Thanks for being so obliging Julian. It's lovely when someone follows the breadcrumb trail.

So basically, your hiding your non evolution of thinking behind a User interface and limited search capabilities.

Which brings us back to the original point but with you now in a miniscuke box.

No more need be said.

Thank you - be well :D

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
What you mean the tiny triangle that is only implemented now at grouo level amd not on mobile version of the site Julian, is that the one you mean Jules?

Yes. As I said.. it is "adequate" to find my ARBN posts.

But an advance search isn't even necessary since
all my USENET posts include the unique string "julianlzb87"

[i***@gmail.com]

It's OK Julian thank you for defining your sense of what's constitutes adequate. That's a perfect benchmark by which readers can judge your contibution.

For the record, I regard the search functionalty in Google groups is completely inadequate in terms of both the use case and reliability of finding a post that one knows to be there, using accurate search criteria.

I am not alone in holding that view, as readers can quickly check for themselves by doing a Google search on the main Google page using either "search Google groups" or "advanced search in Google groups" or some such.

I guess we have very different views of what constitutes adequacy. Your expetations and standards are much lower than mine and many others.

Like I said, it comes down to credibility, in this case your credibility.

Readers can cone to their own view whether to take any account if your veiws on this or any other subject, given the standards you apply.

So with regard to your pronoucemnts on others enligtenment, understanding of the Sutra, Buddhism yada, yada, yada, they can set that within your definition of what constitudes adequacy.

They can also think through just what standards you might similarly apply to your own rigor and diligence in pursuing study and practice, given your comfort with a flaky search capability on a poor user interface "consistency from beginning to end" and all that.

In the absence of any willingness for you to either set out what you beleive, how you got there and why or to provide them with easy access to your previous posting on key topics, don't be surprised if they extrapolate your sense of adequacy to your opinions and contributions in general.

It's your box, you built it, you put yourself into it and downsized so it became smaller and smaller. I hope you enjoy it.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

PS If you get fed up with being cooped uo, by all means come and make a worthwhile contribition, just don't ask others to do work thatcyou should be doing because you eitger can't be arsed or more likely because you have a need to hide behind a UI, not that is, if you want to be taken seriously.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Hey iainx, can't help but notice your keen powers of perception and the breadth of your wisdom ⭐️
Thank you for sharing this valuable, useful benefit of correct faith and practice of Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism, and keeping it real ‼️
Cheers 🎈
~Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

Cheers Katie! Given Julian's position on searching posts, it's surprising that he'd want to make thay even hatder by deleting some of his posts from Google Groups, as he has done here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/fsE_HmYdxH8


Fortunately the Archive still has them. It's the behaviour that's important, especially when one takes the position that Julian has.

Have a great day and weekend!

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

"Hey iainx, can't help but notice your keen powers of perception and the breadth of your wisdom ⭐️"


Hi Katie, thanks for the praise, which you've popped into a few posts now. I haven't really responded to those because if I honest, I've not known how to.

I don't think I'm particularly special or praiseworthy in relation to many others but I appreciate the well meant sentiments you express.

I do try my best and am sincere about my study and practice of the Sutra and Nichiren's Buddhism and I hope that comes through.

I also really dislike deciept, manipulation and exploitation in others or for that matter myself, so I work hard to try and counter and transform those tendencies.

I often times don't know why I do what I do, other than I feel it is the right. I'd be a fraud if I tried to claim otherwise. All I do is try to follow the Law to the best of my ability. That's seems to work well! :)

I'm often inspired by others and learn from them, I'm very grateful to the positive voices in this forum and elsewhere for sharing and keeping it real.

I think we all have something to contribute, we are all equally valid in our potential to make a positive differnce, even if at any given moment we're being destructive.

Wouldn't it be great if the Chas's Julian's and Richard's of this world started to realise that positive potential and share it?

Playing troll games, standing in bully pulpits spouting angry nonsense or actively smearing and slandering others can't be very happy paths to follow and it shows.

There's so much more to life and isn't it's great when people come with that sense. Like it or not, we're all connected, we may as well try to work together in a positive direction.

I really liked your Harry Potter post, it made me smile. Yes Buddhism is important but so is the rest of life bringing those two things together in a down to earth way, isn't that what it's all about!?

Reading good stories to grand kids, appreciating them, remembering to laugh, dance, love and have fun that isn't taken at the expense of others, it seems to me we need those things too.

And the practice and study of buddhism enables those in the most positive way possible if it's done right. So how do we do it right?

I can find no better than Sutra and Nichiren and the voices of those who sincerely try to apply their practice or and their humanity. There's always something to learn and good people we can learn from. How wonderful!

Thanks to you too! :)

[n***@gmail.com]

Firstly thank you for acknowledging your inadequate and doctrine twisting falsehoods by naming this post after me. It shows your doubt in your own changing views and hypocritical interpretations. If not for NST and Soka Gakkai's published Gosho neither of you would have has the opportunity to study Nichiren's Teachings until your Sect caught up. That's a fact! Now you are experts in what teachings are false and which are true! Interesting...

Direct me to your sects Gosho which are available to the public without having to pay for them! You can't! So keep on with your unsubstantiated and foolish assertions which are not backed up by doctrine. You are only proving yourselves unworthy of any type of credibility and exposing your foolishness.

I'm,smiling......

[n***@gmail.com]

Three Kinds of Hokekyo {Lotus Sutra}


When we speak of the Hokekyo, people think of Shakyainuni’sMyoho-renge-kyo which comprises twenty-eight chapters. However, in actuality, there are three kinds
of Hokekyo according to the periods of Shoho, Zoho and Mappo.

Time is an indispensable factor of Buddhism. The first millennium after Shakyamuni’s death is Shoho, the second millennium, Zoho and the period that follows is Mappo, which lasts for 10,000 years and more.

People in Shoho were closely related to Shakyamuni and people in Zoho were but slightly related to him. However, people in Mappo have no connection whatsoever with Shakyamuni. During Shoho and Zoho, Shakyamuni’s Buddhism benefitted the people, but in Mappo, even the Hokekyo, which fulfilled the purpose of Shakyamuni’s advent in this world, has lost its validity, retaining only its formality.

Today, only the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin who is the True Buddha of Mappo provides mankind with divine blessings. Many Buddhist sects such as Jodo (Pure Land); Zen and Shingon (True Word) are based on the provisional teachings, which should be displaced by the Hokekyo. Therefore, they are extremely heretical sects that poison their believers.

The Hokekyo of Shoho is the twenty-eight-chapter Hokekyo revealed by Shakyamuni and that of Zoho is Tendai’s Maka-Shikan (T’ien-t’ai’s Mo-ho-chih kuan).

The Hokekyo of Mappo is the Nam-myoho-renge-kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (San- dai-hi ho) established by Nichiren Daishonin. Buddhism has the Three Treasures (Sampo) – the Buddha, the Law, and the Priest. Before explaining the Three Treasures, I must refer to six kinds of Buddhas.

They are the Buddha of Hinayana, Buddha of Tsukyo, Buddha of Bekkyo*, Buddha of Shakumon (of the Hokekyo), Buddha of Honmon (of the Hokekyo), and the Buddha of Montei of Honmon.

These six are classified according to the teachings they expounded.


The first five are Shakyamuni of India and the last is Nichiren Daishonin, the True Buddha of Mappo.

It follows therefore that the Three Treasures of Hinayana are the Buddha of Hinayana (Buddha), Hinayana sutras (Law), and Anan (Ananda) and Kasho (Kasyapa) (Priests).

The Three Treasures of Shakumon are the Buddha of Shakumon who did not disclose his eternal life (Buddha), the Hokekyo (Law), and Bodhisattvas Fugen(Samantabhadra) and Monju (Manjusri) (Priests).

The Three Treasures of Nichiren Shoshu are Nichiren Daishonin, the eternal and original Buddha (Buddha), Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (Law), and Nikko Shonin, immediate successor to the Daishonin (Priest).

Heretical Nichiren sects fail to define these Three Treasures correctly since they regard Nichiren Daishonin as a mere Bodhisattva and not as the True Buddha.

Again, you should acknowledge that there are six kinds of Buddhas and that among them only the Buddha of Montei of Honmon (who is Nichiren Daishonin) is the only Buddha in Mappo who can lead mankind to eternal happiness.

Have fun..... This describes Lain, Katie , and Mark who are heretical and not to be taken seriously....

Show me where I can access your Nichiren Shu doctrines online! You can't!

Richard

[Julian]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Three Kinds of Hokekyo {Lotus Sutra}
When we speak of the Hokekyo, people think of Shakyainuni’sMyoho-renge-kyo which comprises twenty-eight chapters. However, in actuality, there are three kinds
of Hokekyo according to the periods of Shoho, Zoho and Mappo.
Time is an indispensable factor of Buddhism. The first millennium after Shakyamuni’s death is Shoho, the second millennium, Zoho and the period that follows is Mappo, which lasts for 10,000 years and more.
People in Shoho were closely related to Shakyamuni and people in Zoho were but slightly related to him. However, people in Mappo have no connection whatsoever with Shakyamuni. During Shoho and Zoho, Shakyamuni’s Buddhism benefitted the people, but in Mappo, even the Hokekyo, which fulfilled the purpose of Shakyamuni’s advent in this world, has lost its validity, retaining only its formality.
Today, only the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin who is the True Buddha of Mappo provides mankind with divine blessings. Many Buddhist sects such as Jodo (Pure Land); Zen and Shingon (True Word) are based on the provisional teachings, which should be displaced by the Hokekyo. Therefore, they are extremely heretical sects that poison their believers.
The Hokekyo of Shoho is the twenty-eight-chapter Hokekyo revealed by Shakyamuni and that of Zoho is Tendai’s Maka-Shikan (T’ien-t’ai’s Mo-ho-chih kuan).
The Hokekyo of Mappo is the Nam-myoho-renge-kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (San- dai-hi ho) established by Nichiren Daishonin. Buddhism has the Three Treasures (Sampo) – the Buddha, the Law, and the Priest. Before explaining the Three Treasures, I must refer to six kinds of Buddhas.
They are the Buddha of Hinayana, Buddha of Tsukyo, Buddha of Bekkyo*, Buddha of Shakumon (of the Hokekyo), Buddha of Honmon (of the Hokekyo), and the Buddha of Montei of Honmon.
These six are classified according to the teachings they expounded.

It was quite impossible for either Chinese or Japanese to recognise
any chronological sequence in the mass of the doctrinal works they
received.

They could not even, like the Mahayanists of India, set aside the Agamas
of the Tripitaka as superceded.

Hence they invented quite ARTIFICIAL methods to explain the different
portions (classify) of the literature as partial or complete revelations
of the teachings.

For instance, the Tendai school made five divisions:

1. the Avantamsaka Sutra, which was taughtin the second week
after the enlightenment,

2. the Agamas, which for 12 years were taught at Benares

3. certain Mahayana Sutras, such as the Lankavatara and Suvarnaprabhasa,
which were taught for eight years,

4. the Prajnaparamita-sutras for 22 years, and lastly

5. the Saddharmapundarika and the Mahanirvana taught for 8 years.

The operative word here is ARTIFICIAL.

Your "classifications" are built on sand.

[i***@gmail.com]

Well I'm independent Richard, firstly. I don't belong to a sect.

Secondly, it is true that Major Writings was put into English by NST and SGI, its also true that these sold very well and created revenue for both, before the internet. I have acknowleded my gratitude to both NST, SGI and indeed Nichiren Shu and all else who have helped me. I repay this debt by continuing to follow the Law and advocate the Sutra and Nichiren.


But let's get diwn to the crux shall we?

If someone helps you but they also decieve and rip you off down the line you tell me if you continue loyalty to them and keep silent? Because that's now the nub of your argument. That's the best you can do.

SGI teaches Buddhahoid is attained throught the mentor. That's not Nichiren's teaching. It also teaches now against what it previously taught. This is based on SGI's own publications and utterances.

The argument you have made coukd be likewise made about Nichiren and his split from Tendai. Is tgat what you afe saying, donct follow Nichiren because if it wasn't for the Tendai providong access to study materials and his teacher Dozen Bo enabling his understanding, Nichiren wouldn't have been able to do what he did?

Readers can check out On Repaying Debts of Gratitude to get Nichiren's answer to that and see the history of that particular issue. I would recommend they do.

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Since Richard has a history if deketing his posts, I'll pop a link into the Archive just in case:

In addition to the Index there is also a newsgroup Archive that retains deleted postings. It can be accessed here:

http://alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.narkive.com/

If you want to easily find a thread in the archive, simply post to it in the Google Groups thread and that thread will pop to the top of the Archive.

[i***@gmail.com]

Also Richard and readers, you might want to consider that without Nichiren Shu and tgeir study facilities at Rissho University, NST and SGI translations eould not have been possible, since until very recently, Nichiren Shoshu prirsts trained at Rissho University.

You line of reasoning fails Richard. Since SGI leadership was excommunicated and led its following into a war with NST, exactly the behaviour you decry, it has become more wayward.

Indeed authentic Gosho and the effirts of Nichiren Shu and the independent scholarship is indeed a threat to SGIkeda's business. Which Richatd is why you and Chas are trying so hard to disrupt this forum.

As soon as SGI members start to compare what Nichiren taught from writings that are in his own hand, with what the SGI of today is teaching, they realise they have been misled and that their precious time and money have been wasted.

That's beginning to hit home to SGIkeda now, so true to form, try to attack the competition and deal with the threat.

What's remarkable is that a backwater newsgroup forum, a remnant of a previous internet age, show garner so much power and pose such a threat to a big corporation like SGIkeda.

And perhaps that's because it has one Kempon Hokke beliver, two independents and one believer down the ShoshinkailNST line, all saying the same thing, advocating following the Law, seeking the Buddha, staying close to the Sutra and Nichiren's Gosho and advicating use of high quality sources. Imagine that! Unity on the across sectarian/organisational boundaries.

Of course we have our differnces but the model SGI fears the most is the single mind of faith as did the sects of Nichiren's day. For it alone can unify correctly, centering on the Law and the Buddha, faith in thr Daimoku and across organisational boundaries. It alone can set people free and bring harmony, as Nichiren intended (and if you doubt me, read his Risshu Ankokku Ron).

And tgerecs no profit in freedom is there Richard? Not for the likes of the executives of SGIkeda and it's board. Corporations will protect their revenue source. That's why you are here.

But readers, don't take my word for it, use the index and archive, read Richard's posting and deleted posting and see what games he's been trying to play. Then by all means compare and contrast with those of other contributors. Make your own minds up.

But most of all - just be well :)

[Julian]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Also

crap cut.

Post by i***@gmail.com
But readers,
don't take my word for it, use the index and archive, read Richard's posting and deleted posting and see what games he's been trying to play. Then by all means compare and contrast with those of other contributors. Make your own minds up.

Out of curiosity a few minutes I took a peak at the stats for your Index.

I wasn't surprised that I was the first ever to view the the thread,
apart from you the writer, and won't be at all surprised if I am also
the last.

The chances of anyone ever actually reading the thread in
such circumstances is around zero.

[i***@gmail.com]

Well given your role here Jules and your self defined low standards, I'd take that with a big pinch of salt. But even if true, which it ckearly isn't because itcs already been published on other sites by others, all you've proved is you're not very good at mathmatics.

Admittedly, humans are very poor at assessing and predicting probability. Unless you can see into the future, you have very little chance of predicting probability accurately. For a start you simply don't have enough data to make a forecast on.

But what's intersting is why you're bothering at all and Richard and Chas.

Who are you wanting to know this? Not ne for sure. So I guess the line now is to try to downplay the significance of the forum and the index. The message to SGI members whi stumble in here will be "you're alone, listening to this stuff" and I guess the sub text will be "listen to a mainstream organisation like SGI".

I'm almost falling over with laughter at the attention being lavished by you, Richard abd Chas on us. For people who are supposedly so insignificant, error prone etc. ect. We sure are warranting alot if your time and attention. Now why would that be?

I'm here for the Sutra and Nichiren's teaching, what's your excuse (beyond trolling that is)? What's Richard's and what's Chas's? One doesn't waste time and effort on something that doesn't matter and yet therecs been a concerted effort in the past week from all three of you (if indeed you are differnt people or not an organised media management team).

That effort suggests we matter quite a lot. So what are Mark, Katie and I saying that matters and whose interests does it hurt? Chas is blatant in his organisational affiliations. Richard, well Richard is playing the role of the "flaky member, who strayed too far from the discipleship of his mentor (message: see what happens) but is now presumably back in the fold. And you Julian?...

Thanks to all three of you for the vote of confidence. Your continued attention is the clearest signal that whatcs being said and discussed here is worth taking note of.

Why, afterall would you lurk here and monitor a forum for 20 years if it wasn't? What Julian are you saying aboyt yourself and your life?

Good day to you - be well. :)

"> But readers,

Post by i***@gmail.com
don't take my word for it, use the index and archive, read Richard's posting and deleted posting and see what games he's been trying to play. Then by all means compare and contrast with those of other contributors. Make your own minds up.

Out of curiosity a few minutes I took a peak at the stats for your Index.

I wasn't surprised that I was the first ever to view the the thread,
apart from you the writer, and won't be at all surprised if I am also
the last.

The chances of anyone ever actually reading the thread in
such circumstances is around zero."

[n***@gmail.com]

Lame you are my friend. In fact I have learned much from Mr. Ikeda. And I have actually raised members who are and have showed tremendous actual proof of faith in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. How many members have you help[ed change their lives. Have you ever taken responsibility for others and put your whole life into their care and study. I would say no Lain. You are a theoretical hypocrite who bounces from one sect to the other and consistently pretends to know faith yet has no history of taking responsibility for others other than talk. What is your history of practice? Criticism and no action! My faith is not dependent on SGI however my practice was honed in NSA which I will forever be grateful...

Slide left Lame, you are only fooling yourself

[n***@gmail.com]

Study and learn folks. This is Nichiren Buddhism not what the regulars here are teaching seek yourself...


Ga of “Ji ga toku bur-rai” means Hosshin (Buddha’s life), butsu means Hoshin (Buddha’s
wisdom), and rai means Ojin (Buddha’s body). These three phases of life Nichiren
Daishonin acquired by himself. Thus “Ji toku” means to ‘acquire by oneself’. The
Daishonin obtained all of these at Kuon Ganjo or in other words, the Daishonin has been
the True Buddha since the infinite past.
This is true interpretation of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”
Obviously, the cited verse, when used by the Daishonin, expounds the reality of ordinary
people as well as the Buddha.

Now I will give you some brief account of Kuon Ganjo which is one of the most profound
principles of Buddhism. In the realm of Shakyamuni’s Buddhism, Kuon Ganjo is indicative
of an unimaginably distant past, but according to the Daishonin, it is with us today or in
other words; the present moment is Kuon Ganjo.
Kuon Ganjo is the beginning of Mappo when the True Buddha who sows the seeds of
Buddhahood in the minds of all people makes His advent. Mappo is the day when there are
innumerable heretical teachings and the true teaching is buried in oblivion. For this
reason, Mappo is very close to Kuon Ganjo when there was no teaching, leaving the Nam-
Myoho-Renge-Kyo unrevealed.

It is at this juncture that Buddhist philosophy becomes a practical teaching. It is no longer
a mere theory or a mere idea. The profound Buddhist philosophy accords with reality.
It was explained that the verse “ji ga toku bur-rai” clarified the essential nature of
ordinary people.

This life endowed with the three phases of life (Sanjin) is what we have obtained by
ourselves. We can never learn Buddhahood from others.

You may study Buddhism or hear lectures on the Hokekyo and ask someone to teach you
what Buddhahood is like, without getting a definite answer. You can do nothing but realize
it by yourself. ‘I have obtained these three phases of life by myself.’ This is how Buddha
feels. As for the way to attain Buddhahood, Nichiren Daishonin taught us that to chant
Daimoku to the Gohonzon is the only way to realize the life of Sanjin. This is the correct
meaning of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Study and learn folks. This is Nichiren Buddhism not what the regulars here are teaching seek yourself...
Ga of “Ji ga toku bur-rai” means Hosshin (Buddha’s life), butsu means Hoshin (Buddha’s
wisdom), and rai means Ojin (Buddha’s body). These three phases of life Nichiren
Daishonin acquired by himself. Thus “Ji toku” means to ‘acquire by oneself’. The
Daishonin obtained all of these at Kuon Ganjo or in other words, the Daishonin has been
the True Buddha since the infinite past.
This is true interpretation of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”
Obviously, the cited verse, when used by the Daishonin, expounds the reality of ordinary
people as well as the Buddha.
Now I will give you some brief account of Kuon Ganjo which is one of the most profound
principles of Buddhism. In the realm of Shakyamuni’s Buddhism, Kuon Ganjo is indicative
of an unimaginably distant past, but according to the Daishonin, it is with us today or in
other words; the present moment is Kuon Ganjo.
Kuon Ganjo is the beginning of Mappo when the True Buddha who sows the seeds of
Buddhahood in the minds of all people makes His advent. Mappo is the day when there are
innumerable heretical teachings and the true teaching is buried in oblivion. For this
reason, Mappo is very close to Kuon Ganjo when there was no teaching, leaving the Nam-
Myoho-Renge-Kyo unrevealed.
It is at this juncture that Buddhist philosophy becomes a practical teaching. It is no longer
a mere theory or a mere idea. The profound Buddhist philosophy accords with reality.
It was explained that the verse “ji ga toku bur-rai” clarified the essential nature of
ordinary people.
This life endowed with the three phases of life (Sanjin) is what we have obtained by
ourselves. We can never learn Buddhahood from others.
You may study Buddhism or hear lectures on the Hokekyo and ask someone to teach you
what Buddhahood is like, without getting a definite answer. You can do nothing but realize
it by yourself. ‘I have obtained these three phases of life by myself.’ This is how Buddha
feels. As for the way to attain Buddhahood, Nichiren Daishonin taught us that to chant
Daimoku to the Gohonzon is the only way to realize the life of Sanjin. This is the correct
meaning of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”

Really, Richard? " As for the way to attain Buddhahood, Nichiren Daishonin taught us that to chant
Daimoku to the Gohonzon is the only way to realize the life of Sanjin. This is the correct
meaning of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.” I think you left out the 18 years of Nichiren's teachings that preceded his *drawing the mandala Gohonzon* for his followers who had demonstrated stedfast faith and understood what the supreme object of worship represented because they were recipients of Nichiren's teachings which focused on the Lotus Sutra and the Buddha who preached the sutra, Shakyamuni.-- 18 years worth of Nichiren's teachings that the Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu also discounted.


True, If a solicitous SGI member persuades a newbie to chant daimoku to a paper scroll that is a xerox replica of a Gohonzon drawn by a high priest of the Taisekiji lineage , the pitch will be :"THIS is the way to attain Buddhahood, but the understanding will be implanted that, Buddhahood= attaining your desires and fulfilling your dreams via membership in the SGI. A major distortion of the Buddha's intent.

You left out the most important information and neglected to mention that when Shakyamuni stated " From the time I attained Buddhahood" he was preaching the Lotus Sutra to his disciples, who attained Buddhahood instantly upon hearing and taking faith in Shakyamuni's teaching. If you missed that in the Lotus Sutra, you will find it explained in Nichiren's writings ;-)

Where there are people who accept your oversimplification of the profound meaning of Nichiren's lifelong devotion to propagating the Law, one will find zealots in ever deceasing number, making vows to follow in the footsteps of the three SGI Presidents. I advise anyone who finds themselves amongst these zealots to run, not walk to the nearest exit!!

Beware of *easy* formula for attaining Buddhahood!

~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

Study and learn folks. This is Nichiren Buddhism not what the regulars here are teaching seek yourself...


Ga of “Ji ga toku bur-rai” means Hosshin (Buddha’s life), butsu means Hoshin (Buddha’s
wisdom), and rai means Ojin (Buddha’s body). These three phases of life Nichiren
Daishonin acquired by himself. Thus “Ji toku” means to ‘acquire by oneself’. The
Daishonin obtained all of these at Kuon Ganjo or in other words, the Daishonin has been
the True Buddha since the infinite past.
This is true interpretation of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”
Obviously, the cited verse, when used by the Daishonin, expounds the reality of ordinary
people as well as the Buddha.

Now I will give you some brief account of Kuon Ganjo which is one of the most profound
principles of Buddhism. In the realm of Shakyamuni’s Buddhism, Kuon Ganjo is indicative
of an unimaginably distant past, but according to the Daishonin, it is with us today or in
other words; the present moment is Kuon Ganjo.
Kuon Ganjo is the beginning of Mappo when the True Buddha who sows the seeds of
Buddhahood in the minds of all people makes His advent. Mappo is the day when there are
innumerable heretical teachings and the true teaching is buried in oblivion. For this
reason, Mappo is very close to Kuon Ganjo when there was no teaching, leaving the Nam-
Myoho-Renge-Kyo unrevealed.

It is at this juncture that Buddhist philosophy becomes a practical teaching. It is no longer
a mere theory or a mere idea. The profound Buddhist philosophy accords with reality.
It was explained that the verse “ji ga toku bur-rai” clarified the essential nature of
ordinary people.

This life endowed with the three phases of life (Sanjin) is what we have obtained by
ourselves. We can never learn Buddhahood from others.

You may study Buddhism or hear lectures on the Hokekyo and ask someone to teach you
what Buddhahood is like, without getting a definite answer. You can do nothing but realize
it by yourself. ‘I have obtained these three phases of life by myself.’ This is how Buddha
feels. As for the way to attain Buddhahood, Nichiren Daishonin taught us that to chant
Daimoku to the Gohonzon is the only way to realize the life of Sanjin. This is the correct
meaning of “Ji ga toku bur-rai.”

[i***@gmail.com]

Of course you could simply be being paid by SGIkeda to monitor and "manage" the forum. That would make a lot of sense of your location, language and familiarity with the net. Even terms like "the management" maybe they really are!

I'm not saying this is true, just that it's a strong possibility, it's what Scientology did, paid programmers and media management consultants to try and disrupt and flame their Alt forum amd turn genuine contributors against each other.

I'll post a link to the relevant articles later.

It failled by the way.

And SGIkeda, if it is trying to do that, has a big problem, the structure of Nichiren Buddhism is different to Scientology (not SGIkeda teaching by the way, that's quite similar just without the aliens). The single mind if faith as Nichiren taught is a powerful and effective antidote, as you have seen.

I don't agree with everything other genuine contributors say nor most likely do they me but we agree on the most important points, chief amongst those, follow the Law, stay close to the Sutra and Nichiren's authentic teaching on it and develop strong and correct faith, embrace the Daimoku alone, which is the Gohonzon, as the only way to attain enlightenment. And then apply that to ones life to the best of one's ability. All else can be discussed.

And that my boxed friend, is why SGIkeda is spending so much time taking notice. Some would say it's actual proof. How wonderful! Meanwhile, SGIcs membership continues to drop away and with it the false claims to be advancing kosen rufu.

My guess is that the org is nearing negative critical mass, if it hasn't already fallen below it.

It simply doesn't have the numbers or the reach to sustain it's business model and the energy and resources it devotes to trying to manage the negative news its operations generate and counter the high quality information that counters it's claims, outstrips it's capability. More and more people are asking questions and coming up with answrrs that don't go in favour of the org and its board.

And then there is the probkem of Mr Ikeda himself, now invisible, possibly already deceased. Like it or not, sooner rather than later, they're going to have to confront that loss and with it, their one salable commodity. The question is, have Mr Harada, Mr Wada, Mr Kenada, Mr Ikeda junior and all the rest dine enough to retain a fan base after his passing is announced? Nope.

And along come people who unpick the strategy they were banking on to keep them in a job - mentor-disciple lineage. Oops.

Troubling times for lazy people dependent on wealth, status and political influence. A blessing for the rest of us...

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

Richards deleted posts can be found herem

http://alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.narkive.com/pr5Z1F0s/questions-for-katie-can-she-answer


There just disparagement and not worth reading really but if people want to they can!

Be well :)

[i***@gmail.com]

"Show me where I can access your Nichiren Shu doctrines online! You can't!

Richard"

The reason Richard you can access Gosho online is because people like me bought the books and contributed our money to make that happen. I was happy to do that for the NSUK/SGIUK I joined. It's the very least SGIkeda can do in gratitude to all those many people who gave in sincerity, even if it is dubious in places.

So Richard, I think you should be saying thank you, in part to me, for providing you with your online access.

The SGI didn't become a billion dollar corporation because it's leadership, board and executives gave it that money, they get paid BY the corporation. It got rich because it's MEMBERS gave it money, including me.

And that's the problem, it got rich and then like lots of organisations that get rich, it became corrupt and became the SGIkeda corporation it is today. And it became corrupt because it attracted people who like being rich, you know the people who are paid and make all the decisions and who also decline to be finacially transparent with the people who gave them the money - its members.

The paid executives who can and do eject induvidual members if they ask for proper finacial accountability or awkward questions about money.

So I'm waiting Richard for your thank you for my part in giving you online access to Gosho and whilst your at it, why not thank all the other people past and present who also made that possible, including Richard, the people SGI ejected and in some cases treated absolutely abominably?

And for the record, I read seven volumes of Gosho from cover to cover because I paid for those books and did so before there was a world wide web. So did many others. And I'll gladly pay for better translations and assurance of authenticity if they don't happen to be online.

Just as I supported getting the Gosho you do have online by digging into my pocket, I'm happy to support other translations. If I had the dosh, I'd do it myself, it's called contribution.

But no doubt you expect to get something for nothing, which is exactly the attitude of people who exploit others.

Let's see you stream all your music for free Richard as an act of generosity to human kind (which may or may not be a good thing!!!). I notice you're hot on marketing yourself.

Why do you expect something to be given for free and why do you think it's OK to turn around and sneer at the people who paid to make that happen?

That's a fine attitude you've got there buddy, that just about sums you up and the corp you're to defending. Others pay and do the wirk for free, whilst you freeload, is that it?

Be grateful, be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Of course you could simply be being paid by SGIkeda to monitor and "manage" the forum. That would make a lot of sense of your location, language and familiarity with the net. Even terms like "the management" maybe they really are!
I'm not saying this is true, just that it's a strong possibility, it's what Scientology did, paid programmers and media management consultants to try and disrupt and flame their Alt forum amd turn genuine contributors against each other.
I'll post a link to the relevant articles later.
It failled by the way.
And SGIkeda, if it is trying to do that, has a big problem, the structure of Nichiren Buddhism is different to Scientology (not SGIkeda teaching by the way, that's quite similar just without the aliens). The single mind if faith as Nichiren taught is a powerful and effective antidote, as you have seen.
I don't agree with everything other genuine contributors say nor most likely do they me but we agree on the most important points, chief amongst those, follow the Law, stay close to the Sutra and Nichiren's authentic teaching on it and develop strong and correct faith, embrace the Daimoku alone, which is the Gohonzon, as the only way to attain enlightenment. And then apply that to ones life to the best of one's ability. All else can be discussed.
And that my boxed friend, is why SGIkeda is spending so much time taking notice. Some would say it's actual proof. How wonderful! Meanwhile, SGIcs membership continues to drop away and with it the false claims to be advancing kosen rufu.
My guess is that the org is nearing negative critical mass, if it hasn't already fallen below it.
It simply doesn't have the numbers or the reach to sustain it's business model and the energy and resources it devotes to trying to manage the negative news its operations generate and counter the high quality information that counters it's claims, outstrips it's capability. More and more people are asking questions and coming up with answrrs that don't go in favour of the org and its board.
And then there is the probkem of Mr Ikeda himself, now invisible, possibly already deceased. Like it or not, sooner rather than later, they're going to have to confront that loss and with it, their one salable commodity. The question is, have Mr Harada, Mr Wada, Mr Kenada, Mr Ikeda junior and all the rest dine enough to retain a fan base after his passing is announced? Nope.
And along come people who unpick the strategy they were banking on to keep them in a job - mentor-disciple lineage. Oops.
Troubling times for lazy people dependent on wealth, status and political influence. A blessing for the rest of us...
Be well :)

Great points, iainx!

Post by i***@gmail.com

"I'm not saying this is true, just that it's a strong possibility, it's what Scientology did, paid programmers and media management consultants to try and disrupt and flame their Alt forum amd turn genuine contributors against each other. <<"

The global network of modern day *lone Rangers*," Anonymous" did a fabulous job of penetrating the veneer and uncovering the core tactics of the cult, Scientology--. Anonymous was also instrumental in Scientology losing its 501(c)(3) IRS code tax exemption in the U.S. Anonymous has discussion forums where the topic of SGI , *a dangerous cult* has appeared. I was very heartened to discover this to be an emerging concern of this global activist network.

Discounted entirely by Richard and Chas is the *awakening* that is spanning the globe! The common themes of *breaking scandal* reporting tell the tale of the exploitation of suffering people by wealthy powerful institutions . Religious institutions once considered to be the very best expression of humanity-- join the ranks of corporate based health care, corporate owned education, corrupt child/family/human services. Supported by tax dollars or monetary contributions of financially compromised people.-- all of these institutions bear scrutiny - are accountable to the people, and are finally being exposed. Why not the SGI?

While Chas and Richard may believe their sham Buddhism is sacred, inviolable, this is no more than a delusion-; they are living blind in a world primed to distrust *snake oil salesman* more than ever, and here they are still selling their *Brand*...LOL

Many different investigative journalist, researching a myriad examples of institutional corruption and exploitation of *the people* seem to agree on the time table for the appearance of, or the *starting point* for the deception; that is, near the end of WWII -- 1944-1947 . It has recently occurred to me that these dates coincide with the inception of and the emergence of the Soka Gakkai-- which today holds the unique place amongst all Nichiren *sects* as the most egregiously slanderous-- as dangerous as it is wealthy.

How does great good follow great evil? The emergence of the bodhisattvas of the earth, the true votaries of the Lotus Sutra are the harbingers of *hope for all humankind*.

We are finding each other--
Cheers!
~Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

Yep Katie, the script kids have no love for exploitation and little regard for the boundaries that are used to channel and cream off resources. I'm not surprised they'd be interest in SGIkeda corp.

That said, its membership business will probably be of little interest, at 12 million, that's fairly small and dwindling. What will most probably be of more interest are the other things the corp is involved in. No wonder SGIkeda is paranoid, the thought of ethical hackers inside their networks would certainly keep them up at night.

The problem with younger generations is that for all their apparent mallablility, each new generation is wired slightly differntly and thus unpredictable. Completely novel combinations emerge and combine.

Command and control is necessarily based on what's gone before. It's hard to control what you've never encountered before, especially if it's quicker, smarter and more flexible than you are, let alone try to command it!

Pause for thought there... :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Also Richard and readers, you might want to consider that without Nichiren Shu and tgeir study facilities at Rissho University, NST and SGI translations eould not have been possible, since until very recently, Nichiren Shoshu prirsts trained at Rissho University.
You line of reasoning fails Richard. Since SGI leadership was excommunicated and led its following into a war with NST, exactly the behaviour you decry, it has become more wayward.
Indeed authentic Gosho and the effirts of Nichiren Shu and the independent scholarship is indeed a threat to SGIkeda's business. Which Richatd is why you and Chas are trying so hard to disrupt this forum.
As soon as SGI members start to compare what Nichiren taught from writings that are in his own hand, with what the SGI of today is teaching, they realise they have been misled and that their precious time and money have been wasted.
That's beginning to hit home to SGIkeda now, so true to form, try to attack the competition and deal with the threat.
What's remarkable is that a backwater newsgroup forum, a remnant of a previous internet age, show garner so much power and pose such a threat to a big corporation like SGIkeda.
And perhaps that's because it has one Kempon Hokke beliver, two independents and one believer down the ShoshinkailNST line, all saying the same thing, advocating following the Law, seeking the Buddha, staying close to the Sutra and Nichiren's Gosho and advicating use of high quality sources. Imagine that! Unity on the across sectarian/organisational boundaries.
Of course we have our differnces but the model SGI fears the most is the single mind of faith as did the sects of Nichiren's day. For it alone can unify correctly, centering on the Law and the Buddha, faith in thr Daimoku and across organisational boundaries. It alone can set people free and bring harmony, as Nichiren intended (and if you doubt me, read his Risshu Ankokku Ron).
And tgerecs no profit in freedom is there Richard? Not for the likes of the executives of SGIkeda and it's board. Corporations will protect their revenue source. That's why you are here.
But readers, don't take my word for it, use the index and archive, read Richard's posting and deleted posting and see what games he's been trying to play. Then by all means compare and contrast with those of other contributors. Make your own minds up.
But most of all - just be well :)

Well said, iainx. With regard to the *debt of gratitude* owed to the Gakkai & NST's publications of Nichiren's writings and the Lotus Sutra-- I think we need to view their contribution in proper context.

Over time, the true intentions of the Gakkai and NST have been revealed--, The self promoting, self serving, profit and gain motives so clearly evident in the M.O. of these *twin* traitors to Nichiren's teachings, are even more repugnant when one considers the significance of SGIkeda's and NST's degrading Nichiren's life itself.

It is indeed great good fortune to have this venue where all of us who have chosen Nichiren as our teacher and distanced ourselves from the ill-behaved and gravely misinformed members of the SGI and NST, can deepen our faith. And perhaps we are fortunate for having the predictable attacks and disruptions from Chas, Richard and Julian-- It is the same for members --.

I vividly recall, that questioning, challenging and doubts the doctrines of SGI will call out this same brand of intimidation, bullying and in the case of the Gakkai, threats of or actual ex-communication. You can find yourself on the *hit list* of SGI just for enshrining an authentic Nichiren Gohonzon ! That said, readers who come here with current or past experience as members of the SGI, will surely note this one major consistency--but HERE they can appreciate a correct response, and the truth that practicing Nichiren's Buddhism correctly is not only amazing, it is only possible OUTSIDE of the TWO sects that completely turned Nichiren's teachings upside down-- for nothing but personal gain.

Considering the damage done by the Gakkai publishing conglomerate, I find it nothing short of brazen that any member would demand the Gakkai receive *due respects*--- Instead, Richard and Chas especially, ought to be more concerned about the punishment due those who've marketed a cheap imitation of Nichiren's teachings for billions of dollars --IF these *guys* were truly Buddhists , they would not be preaching *judgment day* rhetoric-- ; they would be pondering cause and effect...

Be even more bold!!
~Katie

[i***@gmail.com]

Yeah you're right Katie, I'm gonna have to work off some karma for supporting a corrupt org.

Hey ho, I'll get there. But on the upside staying as king as I did and bearing no grudges puts me in a really goid position to help unpick the fabrications and help others! :)

[Katie Higgins]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Also Richard and readers, you might want to consider that without Nichiren Shu and tgeir study facilities at Rissho University, NST and SGI translations eould not have been possible, since until very recently, Nichiren Shoshu prirsts trained at Rissho University.
You line of reasoning fails Richard. Since SGI leadership was excommunicated and led its following into a war with NST, exactly the behaviour you decry, it has become more wayward.
Indeed authentic Gosho and the effirts of Nichiren Shu and the independent scholarship is indeed a threat to SGIkeda's business. Which Richatd is why you and Chas are trying so hard to disrupt this forum.
As soon as SGI members start to compare what Nichiren taught from writings that are in his own hand, with what the SGI of today is teaching, they realise they have been misled and that their precious time and money have been wasted.
That's beginning to hit home to SGIkeda now, so true to form, try to attack the competition and deal with the threat.
What's remarkable is that a backwater newsgroup forum, a remnant of a previous internet age, show garner so much power and pose such a threat to a big corporation like SGIkeda.
And perhaps that's because it has one Kempon Hokke beliver, two independents and one believer down the ShoshinkailNST line, all saying the same thing, advocating following the Law, seeking the Buddha, staying close to the Sutra and Nichiren's Gosho and advicating use of high quality sources. Imagine that! Unity on the across sectarian/organisational boundaries.
Of course we have our differnces but the model SGI fears the most is the single mind of faith as did the sects of Nichiren's day. For it alone can unify correctly, centering on the Law and the Buddha, faith in thr Daimoku and across organisational boundaries. It alone can set people free and bring harmony, as Nichiren intended (and if you doubt me, read his Risshu Ankokku Ron).
And tgerecs no profit in freedom is there Richard? Not for the likes of the executives of SGIkeda and it's board. Corporations will protect their revenue source. That's why you are here.
But readers, don't take my word for it, use the index and archive, read Richard's posting and deleted posting and see what games he's been trying to play. Then by all means compare and contrast with those of other contributors. Make your own minds up.
But most of all - just be well :)

Nichiren Shu came into SGIkeda's cross hairs when they declined to take in the cast adrift SGI and legitimize them as part of their lay organization AND refused to relinquish an authentic Nichiren Gohonzon for SGI to mass produce and sell to the members of SGI's NEW religion.

Dear Readers, you will find the fearsome effects of slander; the results of SGIkeda's move to corporate model religion manufacturing in the archives- Richard and Chas have devoted an inordinate amount of time to commanding a considerable amount of space on this forum. Learning about the detrimental effects of following false teachings is the only value you will find in their comments. It is invaluable!

Thanks, iainx!

~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
Three Kinds of Hokekyo {Lotus Sutra}
When we speak of the Hokekyo, people think of Shakyainuni’sMyoho-renge-kyo which comprises twenty-eight chapters. However, in actuality, there are three kinds
of Hokekyo according to the periods of Shoho, Zoho and Mappo.
Time is an indispensable factor of Buddhism. The first millennium after Shakyamuni’s death is Shoho, the second millennium, Zoho and the period that follows is Mappo, which lasts for 10,000 years and more.
People in Shoho were closely related to Shakyamuni and people in Zoho were but slightly related to him. However, people in Mappo have no connection whatsoever with Shakyamuni. During Shoho and Zoho, Shakyamuni’s Buddhism benefitted the people, but in Mappo, even the Hokekyo, which fulfilled the purpose of Shakyamuni’s advent in this world, has lost its validity, retaining only its formality.
Today, only the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin who is the True Buddha of Mappo provides mankind with divine blessings. Many Buddhist sects such as Jodo (Pure Land); Zen and Shingon (True Word) are based on the provisional teachings, which should be displaced by the Hokekyo. Therefore, they are extremely heretical sects that poison their believers.
The Hokekyo of Shoho is the twenty-eight-chapter Hokekyo revealed by Shakyamuni and that of Zoho is Tendai’s Maka-Shikan (T’ien-t’ai’s Mo-ho-chih kuan).
The Hokekyo of Mappo is the Nam-myoho-renge-kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (San- dai-hi ho) established by Nichiren Daishonin. Buddhism has the Three Treasures (Sampo) – the Buddha, the Law, and the Priest. Before explaining the Three Treasures, I must refer to six kinds of Buddhas.
They are the Buddha of Hinayana, Buddha of Tsukyo, Buddha of Bekkyo*, Buddha of Shakumon (of the Hokekyo), Buddha of Honmon (of the Hokekyo), and the Buddha of Montei of Honmon.
These six are classified according to the teachings they expounded.
The first five are Shakyamuni of India and the last is Nichiren Daishonin, the True Buddha of Mappo.
It follows therefore that the Three Treasures of Hinayana are the Buddha of Hinayana (Buddha), Hinayana sutras (Law), and Anan (Ananda) and Kasho (Kasyapa) (Priests).
The Three Treasures of Shakumon are the Buddha of Shakumon who did not disclose his eternal life (Buddha), the Hokekyo (Law), and Bodhisattvas Fugen(Samantabhadra) and Monju (Manjusri) (Priests).
The Three Treasures of Nichiren Shoshu are Nichiren Daishonin, the eternal and original Buddha (Buddha), Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (Law), and Nikko Shonin, immediate successor to the Daishonin (Priest).
Heretical Nichiren sects fail to define these Three Treasures correctly since they regard Nichiren Daishonin as a mere Bodhisattva and not as the True Buddha.
Again, you should acknowledge that there are six kinds of Buddhas and that among them only the Buddha of Montei of Honmon (who is Nichiren Daishonin) is the only Buddha in Mappo who can lead mankind to eternal happiness.
Have fun..... This describes Lain, Katie , and Mark who are heretical and not to be taken seriously....
Show me where I can access your Nichiren Shu doctrines online! You can't!
Richard

Foot notes for Richard's *claim to being Buddha*-- and the authority vested in his own personal pronouncements, by Richard, himself:

This specific warped doctrine, : >" The Three Treasures of Nichiren Shoshu are Nichiren Daishonin, the eternal and original Buddha (Buddha), Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Three Great Secret Laws (Law), and Nikko Shonin, immediate successor to the Daishonin (Priest)"<
is based on forgeries and fabrications by-- guess who?
The sect that launched the SGI; the sect that now competes with SGI for status, members and money,
the sect that SGI has turned against with a vengeance whilst adopting all of its false doctrines and fabricating it's own *Third Treasure*-- placing the High Priest and the Mentor in a grueling grudge match enacted by members on both sides of the same egregious slander;
the sect that rivals Devadatta's treachery,-- drum roll please.~~~~~~~ >Nichiren Shoshu!

Speaking only for myself, I have engraved the doctrines of Nichiren's Lotus sutra Buddhism in my heart. I have done so by believing what Nichiren wrote and not the arbitrary views and opinions of those who have been busted for forgery and fabrications using Nichiren's name and stealing the daimoku. I am an independent practitioner of Nichiren's Buddhism-- not affiliated with any *sect*.

Pompous Richard relies upon on-line access to the distortions of Nichiren's teachings, claiming this is a stellar accomplishment and further proof of his outrageous claims to being "Buddha".

Leave it to SGIkeda to provide easy access for propagating their corporate *Brand*. Lazy and neglectful practitioners are easily misled by the fast tracking road to the Avichi hell that SGI calls, raking in the benefits of being the Buddha you already are!

Ay yi yi !!

~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
five major writings ［五大部］ ( godai-bu): The five most important writings of Nichiren (1222–1282), as identified by Nichiren’s successor, Nikkō. They are (1) On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land, (2) The Opening of the Eyes, (3) The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind, (4) The Selection of the Time, and (5) On Repaying Debts of Gratitude. See also ten major writings.
Yet you call him a fake, phony, liar, etc. Where do you reference these works other than from Nikko Shonin?
Hypocriete you both are. Notice folks Katie never mentions the Gohonzon in any meaningful way. She fails to realize that the Gohonzon is the Lotus Sutra for the Latter Day of the Law. Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra is useless and only is used as a cosigner for the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren. Even she chants Daimoku to the Gohonzon not to Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Why?
Keep Slandering My Lady as I have said Katie. You are addicted to pain!
Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

It is YOU, Richard who employs counterfeit doctrines to support your warped view that 1) you are already Buddha, and 2) Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha, while Nichiren is the True Buddha.

You. Mr.Already "Buddha" follow no Buddha-- and totally discount Nichiren's example of following Shakyamuni as HIS, Shakyamuni's DISCIPLE.

You are a free wheeling, egoist, -- ill-mannered and patronizing, as you liberally propagate teachings that discard the Lotus sutra and the Buddha who preached the Lotus Sutra.

I NEVER mention Gohonzon? Or YOU are selective in what suits your need to discredit the source who has discredited you?

YOU NEVER address the points raised that confront your ridiculous assertions regarding the Three Treasures. Who are YOU to decide Nichiren's teachings are secret or selectively handed to Tiasekiji priests who waited a few hundred years before announcing Nichiren's SECRET teachings?

Are you so stupid as to believe Nichiren would contrive to have his *true identity* revealed 200 years after his passing? That's your BEST guess? Or is it that diverging do far from the path to attaining enlightenment, you are not about to give up your *rewards*from the king devil?? Material gain-- that's all SGI has attained-- not a shred of actual proof that any of you even know a Buddhist doctrine from a cream filled donut!

If you can't READ the topic, or you can't think of a legitimate refutation of the actual topic-- refrain from posting more of your insane insults and deprecating BS.

Thanks!
~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Post by n***@gmail.com
five major writings ［五大部］ ( godai-bu): The five most important writings of Nichiren (1222–1282), as identified by Nichiren’s successor, Nikkō. They are (1) On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land, (2) The Opening of the Eyes, (3) The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind, (4) The Selection of the Time, and (5) On Repaying Debts of Gratitude. See also ten major writings.
Yet you call him a fake, phony, liar, etc. Where do you reference these works other than from Nikko Shonin?
Hypocriete you both are. Notice folks Katie never mentions the Gohonzon in any meaningful way. She fails to realize that the Gohonzon is the Lotus Sutra for the Latter Day of the Law. Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra is useless and only is used as a cosigner for the Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren. Even she chants Daimoku to the Gohonzon not to Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra. Why?
Keep Slandering My Lady as I have said Katie. You are addicted to pain!
Sincerely, Richard H Brown A Votary of The Lotus Sutra

Notice how YOU Richard have no reliable refutation regarding the counterfeit documents that are the basis for your egoistic Buddhism that 1) YOU are already Buddha and 2) Nichiren is the True Buddha-- THOUGH HE NEVER MENTIONS THIS HIMSELF !

Your subversion of the three Treasures renders you without a Buddha to follow and the nerve to discount Nichiren as the teacher, who followed Shakyamnui. Therefore, your egoistical assertions and your insufferable insults are the best you can offer in debate.

You have made numerous references to me that are degrading specifically to my being woman.

Perhaps it was Nichiren's assertion that "a woman who embraces the Lotus Sutra surpasses ALL men", that has caused you to hate Nichiren? It is pretty obvious that you have some deep rooted issues in this regard-- and a practice that ensures you will remain deluded and continue to rack up sins of slander.

The true teachings have been shared many times here-- If all you can do is asset your arrogance and insult sincere followers of Nichiren-- would be better for you to move on to another forum where there is no one who will expose your outrageous disregard for the Lotus Sutra, and confront your non-Buddhist behavior.

~Katie

[n***@gmail.com]

Firstly Katie I did not realize you were a recognized Scholar in Nichiren's Teachings. I also did not know you were a translator of various languages. I do remember you stating that the Gongyo you recite is in Sanskrit is the classical language of Indian and the liturgical language of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It is also one of the 22 official languages of India. The name Sanskrit means "refined", "consecrated" and "sanctified".....ummm you amuse me...with your rants, which have no doctrinal backings. Provide some proof of your assertions or merely continue with your nonsense.

Waiting

[Katie Higgins]

Post by Mark Rogow
http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-ongi-kuden-record-of-orally.html
http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/12/more-proof-that-ongi-kuden-is-forgery.html
Regarding the documents that Taisekiji attributes to Nikko, Yamanaka Kihachi, one of the great Nichiren scholars of the twentieth century and an expert on Nikko's authenticated writings, has written an exhaustive study on Nikko. He examined ALL of his writings, including the Taisekiji documents that the Nichiren Shoshu attribute to him. His comments were as follows: "If one examines all the authenticated writings of Nikko and then compares them to the documents that are housed at Taisekiji, the authentic writings are 180 degrees apart from those at Taisekiji. The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."-- Yamanaka Kihachi: "The two sets of writings are mutually incompatible."