Discussion:
An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate
(too old to reply)
Michael Cody
2005-12-19 11:07:22 UTC
Permalink
From Will Kallander's NShu/Indy board,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/57196 :

From: Francois Couvreaux <***@...>
Date: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: [SGI] Hello!! lightbearer75

re your BTW comment:-
As for why he has resigned - I dont know. I have heard that it is due to ill
health - but this isnt confirmed. In the handover ceremony his comments
to the
sad 400 people gathering were inaudiable and he raced off rather fast.

The damage done to taiseji-ji is truely immense. In short everything
that was
sanctioned and requested by Nittatsu Shonin was demolished. The Grand
reception
hall and Sho Hondo were in the gift of the Soka Gakkai. Both were
demolished.
Sho Hondo was destroyed under the guise of BAD SAND (a lie) The cherry
trees (a
gift of soka gakkai) were there to mark the advent of kosen rufu and
those who
had given their lives to kosen rufu - all were destroyed under the guise
of BAD
TREES (some sort of tree bug) which was a lie.

So many excuses
So many lies from the priests
So much money wasted.

Hundreds of millions of US$ (Billions of Yen) have been wasted or plundered.

I guess the truth will start to come out soon. Those who have been deceived
will

If Nikken thinks he will retire in grace will have another think coming. I
would imagine he will be penniless and disgraced within 2 years. I doubt
very
much if he will die in his own bed.

He was warned - but then he has no faith - he has no shame, so cannot
understand the treasures of the heart.

lightbearer <<<<

Charming, isn't it?

Cody
H***@hawaii.rr.com
2005-12-19 18:58:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
From Will Kallander's NShu/Indy board,
Date: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: [SGI] Hello!! lightbearer75
re your BTW comment:-
As for why he has resigned - I dont know. I have heard that it is due to ill
health - but this isnt confirmed. In the handover ceremony his comments
to the
sad 400 people gathering were inaudiable and he raced off rather fast.
The damage done to taiseji-ji is truely immense. In short everything
that was
sanctioned and requested by Nittatsu Shonin was demolished. The Grand
reception
hall and Sho Hondo were in the gift of the Soka Gakkai. Both were
demolished.
Sho Hondo was destroyed under the guise of BAD SAND (a lie) The cherry
trees (a
gift of soka gakkai) were there to mark the advent of kosen rufu and
those who
had given their lives to kosen rufu - all were destroyed under the guise
of BAD
TREES (some sort of tree bug) which was a lie.
So many excuses
So many lies from the priests
So much money wasted.
Hundreds of millions of US$ (Billions of Yen) have been wasted or plundered.
I guess the truth will start to come out soon. Those who have been deceived
will
If Nikken thinks he will retire in grace will have another think coming. I
would imagine he will be penniless and disgraced within 2 years. I doubt
very
much if he will die in his own bed.
He was warned - but then he has no faith - he has no shame, so cannot
understand the treasures of the heart.
lightbearer <<<<
Charming, isn't it?
So Cody I must ask..How is what this person said any different than
what you and Derek have said about Pres. Ikeda and that the SGI will
crumble after Pres. Ikeda passes away or retires??? You guys never
change. You can always dish it out but cant take it. Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
Post by Michael Cody
Cody
Michael Cody
2005-12-19 19:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Post by Michael Cody
From Will Kallander's NShu/Indy board,
Date: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:26 pm
Subject: RE: [SGI] Hello!! lightbearer75
re your BTW comment:-
As for why he has resigned - I dont know. I have heard that it is due to ill
health - but this isnt confirmed. In the handover ceremony his comments
to the
sad 400 people gathering were inaudiable and he raced off rather fast.
The damage done to taiseji-ji is truely immense. In short everything
that was
sanctioned and requested by Nittatsu Shonin was demolished. The Grand
reception
hall and Sho Hondo were in the gift of the Soka Gakkai. Both were
demolished.
Sho Hondo was destroyed under the guise of BAD SAND (a lie) The cherry
trees (a
gift of soka gakkai) were there to mark the advent of kosen rufu and
those who
had given their lives to kosen rufu - all were destroyed under the guise
of BAD
TREES (some sort of tree bug) which was a lie.
So many excuses
So many lies from the priests
So much money wasted.
Hundreds of millions of US$ (Billions of Yen) have been wasted or plundered.
I guess the truth will start to come out soon. Those who have been deceived
will
If Nikken thinks he will retire in grace will have another think coming. I
would imagine he will be penniless and disgraced within 2 years. I doubt
very
much if he will die in his own bed.
He was warned - but then he has no faith - he has no shame, so cannot
understand the treasures of the heart.
lightbearer <<<<
Charming, isn't it?
So Cody I must ask..How is what this person said any different than
what you and Derek have said about Pres. Ikeda and that the SGI will
crumble after Pres. Ikeda passes away or retires???
Well, you'll get to see, now won't you? Nothing will change in Nichiren
Shoshu. We'll have to wait to see what happens to SGI after Ikeda hands
over the power to his son. Btw, SGI is already crumbling. Ever hear of
Inga Guji?

You guys never
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
change. You can always dish it out but cant take it.
Huh? What the brainwashed fool, "lightbearer", posted above doesn't
affect me, other than to show how SGI can be a pest. It's just further
proof on how brainwashed SGI cult members are and how steeped they are
in hate and how they believe the SS lies.
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.

Cody
justindavid
2005-12-19 23:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
Yelps
2005-12-20 00:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies. Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
What a horrendous, sad joke.
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu. amd you
guys border on paranoid.

dc
Michael Cody
2005-12-20 00:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies.
First ad hominem
Post by Yelps
Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
Second.
Post by Yelps
What a horrendous, sad joke.
Third.
Post by Yelps
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu.
Fourth

amd you
Post by Yelps
guys border on paranoid.
dc
Fifth, and this man who hides behind the skirt of a plonk bitches about
"no content".

Cody
justindavid
2005-12-20 23:48:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:17:41 -0800, "Yelps"
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies. Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
What a horrendous, sad joke.
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu. amd you
guys border on paranoid.
dc
If you had any comprehension you wouldn't be practicing with a
personality cult and calling it a religion. Your ability to slander
what you do not understand is on a par with the rest of the misguided
and poor souls who are followers of one of the most arrogant and
salacious individuals, and I'm not talking about Reverend Moon. And
if you don't believe me, just ask his illegitimate children.
Yelps
2005-12-21 05:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by justindavid
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:17:41 -0800, "Yelps"
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies. Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
What a horrendous, sad joke.
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu. amd you
guys border on paranoid.
dc
If you had any comprehension you wouldn't be practicing with a
personality cult and calling it a religion. Your ability to slander
what you do not understand is on a par with the rest of the misguided
and poor souls who are followers of one of the most arrogant and
salacious individuals, and I'm not talking about Reverend Moon. And
if you don't believe me, just ask his illegitimate children.
Play "Twilight Zone Theme" here.

Ugh You silly Pinhead.

dc
Michael Cody
2005-12-21 13:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:17:41 -0800, "Yelps"
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies. Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
What a horrendous, sad joke.
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu. amd you
guys border on paranoid.
dc
If you had any comprehension you wouldn't be practicing with a
personality cult and calling it a religion. Your ability to slander
what you do not understand is on a par with the rest of the misguided
and poor souls who are followers of one of the most arrogant and
salacious individuals, and I'm not talking about Reverend Moon. And
if you don't believe me, just ask his illegitimate children.
Play "Twilight Zone Theme" here.
Patronizing "humor".
Post by Yelps
Ugh You silly Pinhead.
An insult.
Post by Yelps
dc
Can't respond to content again, eh?

Cody
Julian
2005-12-21 20:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:17:41 -0800, "Yelps"
Post by Yelps
Post by justindavid
Post by Michael Cody
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
Pat
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
Nichiren Shoshu isn't a personality cult like SGI; consequently we,
the members, follow the wisdom and leadership of the High Priest not
because he is Nikken or any other individual, but because he is the
High Priest. And retired High Priest Nikken has a much greater
understanding of the causes he made as opposed to a self righteous
finger pointing sycophant like yourself. But that arrogance is
typical of SGI as the entire organization operates from the lower
worlds mistaking them for Buddhahood.
You guys have the comprehension of Zombies. Ugh Pope Nikken Saved the world.
What a horrendous, sad joke.
The man is the worst abomination in the history of Nichiren Shoshu. amd you
guys border on paranoid.
dc
If you had any comprehension you wouldn't be practicing with a
personality cult and calling it a religion. Your ability to slander
what you do not understand is on a par with the rest of the misguided
and poor souls who are followers of one of the most arrogant and
salacious individuals, and I'm not talking about Reverend Moon. And
if you don't believe me, just ask his illegitimate children.
Play "Twilight Zone Theme" here.
Patronizing "humor".
Post by Yelps
Ugh You silly Pinhead.
An insult.
Post by Yelps
dc
Can't respond to content again, eh?
updated again...
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
Sundevil
2005-12-20 02:11:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
If Rev. Abe were the official High Priest, there would have to be a
uniformity and harmony of his words and actions with those of his
predecessor, High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. For, Nichiren Shoshu emphasizes
the fusion of the minds of master and disciples. In spite of this, the words
and actions of Rev. Abe are vastly different from guidance of High Priest
Nittatsu Shonin.

Examples of Rev. Abe going against the intent of Nittatsu Shonin

You can refer to Nittatsu Shonin's March speech to the priesthood, or his
January address to the Danto General Tozan.

The actions and teachings of the Gakkai, both before Nittatsu Shonin's
death, and afterwards:

The SGI with NST denigrated the Gohonzon, giving it to virtually anyone with
a pulse ("Have a Gohonzon"). Read Reply to Nii-ama and contrast the
Daishonin's caution in bestowing the Gohonzon to the Gakkai's behavior.

The SGI with NST taught that by chanting for your desires, you could attain
Buddhahood.

The SGI with NST taught that Human Revolution is the objective of Buddhist
practice.

When the SGI with NST taught about "faith", they taught that it meant to
chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and do gongyo, and that "practice" meant to do
gakkai activities.

The SGI with NST taught that of the 14 slanders, their members need only
concern themselves with the last 4.

The SGI with NST mistranslated the first part of the 4th silent prayer,
which should read "and to fulfill my great wish (daigan)", not "and to
fulfill my wishes"

To the extent that they taught that faith meant "belief", they taught that
it meant the belief that you could get what you wanted by chanting for it.

The SGI with NST taught that during morning gongyo, one should focus
concretely on your day's activities.

The SGI with NST taught that truly powerful Gongyo and Daimoku is performed
at breakneck speeds.

The SGI with NST taught that Ushitora Gongyo could be performed for the
fulfillment of "difficult" wishes or the resolution of difficulties.

The SGI with NST taught that Kosen-rufu means "World Peace".

The SGI with NST taught that their members were all Bodhisattvas of the
Earth.

The SGI with NST gave primacy to the Daimoku among the Three Great Secret
Laws.

The SGI with NST taught that the completion of the Sho Hondo marked the
completion of the Three Great Secret Laws.

They taught that Hon'in-myo meant "start fresh".

The SGI with NST taught that if you followed an incorrect leader, you would
be protected while the leader would be punished.

The SGI with NST taught that you could practice Buddhism while practicing
another religion ("You don't have to give up Judaism to become a Buddhist.
You can be a Jewish Buddhist", said GMW).

They taught that Itai Doshin meant uniting behind a leader.

The SGI with NST taught that it was not necessary to believe, only to chant.

They taught that Buddhism was something you could "add" to your life to make
it better.

The SGI with NST characterized the Daishonin's Buddhism as his "philosophy"
(and Mr. Ikeda as a philosopher).

The SGI with NST taught that the fulfillment of mundane prayers constituted
"actual proof".

The SGI with NST staged and encouraged participation in a myriad of
"activities" that had nothing to do with Buddhism, but characterized them as
Buddhism.

Add to this, the teaching of Ikeda is the Buddha, which Nittatsu Shonin
discussed in some depth in his April 1979 address to the priesthood, and the
creation and enshrinement of unauthorized wooden Honzons.

But when Rev. Abe addressed them, he made statements like:

"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."

"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of the
Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I think of
Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about the
unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred thousand
households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and culture
worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President Ikeda are,
respectively, a very necessary organization and a very necessary leader for
global propagation in the future."

"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make us an
object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations, and,
therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great hindrance to
propagation."

"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is
whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme Law, the
Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the entity of the
Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose the above is
regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as the Soka Gakkai is
concerned, although it slightly departed from the orthodoxy, it always
remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and never forsook faith in
the Gohonzon.

Rather, correcting its mistakes, the Soka Gakkai has pledged to give even
greater protection and service to the priesthood.

Therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to call its past actions a grave
slander. The priests and lay believers who share faith in the Gohonzon
should not criticize or attack the Soka Gakkai. If they do so, they commit a
serious slander by acting against the Daishonin's precept of itai doshin and
thus are slandering the Gohonzon as a result."

Not only did he ignore, and not correct the everyday teachings of the
Sokagakkai. He required that overseas believers belong to it.

Further, he ordered the priesthood not to criticize the Sokagakkai,
regardless of the slander they observed. To be sure, Rev. Abe included
passages in his speech about Sokagakkai correcting their errors, but how
much correcting was done? When, between 1981 and 1987 did Rev. Abe actually
remonstrate with the Gakkai and correct their mistaken teachings? The
Gakkai's misrepresentation and oversimplification of the Daishonin's
teachings continued unabated during the '80s. It was only when the
Sokagakkai began to speak ill of Rev. Abe, himself, that the meetings,
confrontations and warnings began. Those actions were the beginning of the
end for the Sokagakkai's relationship with Nichiren Shoshu.

Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed to
have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the myriads of
doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued, throughout it.
(That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it appeared to me that
Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they wanted, so long as they
paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when they began to openly
criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.

His legacy.

Pat
Michael Cody
2005-12-20 12:03:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sundevil
Post by Michael Cody
He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the jaws of
the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
If Rev. Abe were the official High Priest, there would have to be a
uniformity and harmony of his words and actions with those of his
predecessor, High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. For, Nichiren Shoshu emphasizes
the fusion of the minds of master and disciples. In spite of this, the
words and actions of Rev. Abe are vastly different from guidance of High
Priest Nittatsu Shonin.
Examples of Rev. Abe going against the intent of Nittatsu Shonin
You can refer to Nittatsu Shonin's March speech to the priesthood, or his
January address to the Danto General Tozan.
The actions and teachings of the Gakkai, both before Nittatsu Shonin's
The SGI with NST denigrated the Gohonzon, giving it to virtually anyone
with a pulse ("Have a Gohonzon"). Read Reply to Nii-ama and contrast the
Daishonin's caution in bestowing the Gohonzon to the Gakkai's behavior.
The SGI with NST taught that by chanting for your desires, you could
attain Buddhahood.
The SGI with NST taught that Human Revolution is the objective of Buddhist
practice.
When the SGI with NST taught about "faith", they taught that it meant to
chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and do gongyo, and that "practice" meant to do
gakkai activities.
The SGI with NST taught that of the 14 slanders, their members need only
concern themselves with the last 4.
The SGI with NST mistranslated the first part of the 4th silent prayer,
which should read "and to fulfill my great wish (daigan)", not "and to
fulfill my wishes"
To the extent that they taught that faith meant "belief", they taught that
it meant the belief that you could get what you wanted by chanting for it.
The SGI with NST taught that during morning gongyo, one should focus
concretely on your day's activities.
The SGI with NST taught that truly powerful Gongyo and Daimoku is
performed at breakneck speeds.
The SGI with NST taught that Ushitora Gongyo could be performed for the
fulfillment of "difficult" wishes or the resolution of difficulties.
The SGI with NST taught that Kosen-rufu means "World Peace".
The SGI with NST taught that their members were all Bodhisattvas of the
Earth.
The SGI with NST gave primacy to the Daimoku among the Three Great Secret
Laws.
The SGI with NST taught that the completion of the Sho Hondo marked the
completion of the Three Great Secret Laws.
They taught that Hon'in-myo meant "start fresh".
The SGI with NST taught that if you followed an incorrect leader, you
would be protected while the leader would be punished.
The SGI with NST taught that you could practice Buddhism while practicing
another religion ("You don't have to give up Judaism to become a Buddhist.
You can be a Jewish Buddhist", said GMW).
They taught that Itai Doshin meant uniting behind a leader.
The SGI with NST taught that it was not necessary to believe, only to chant.
They taught that Buddhism was something you could "add" to your life to
make it better.
The SGI with NST characterized the Daishonin's Buddhism as his
"philosophy" (and Mr. Ikeda as a philosopher).
The SGI with NST taught that the fulfillment of mundane prayers
constituted "actual proof".
The SGI with NST staged and encouraged participation in a myriad of
"activities" that had nothing to do with Buddhism, but characterized them
as Buddhism.
Add to this, the teaching of Ikeda is the Buddha, which Nittatsu Shonin
discussed in some depth in his April 1979 address to the priesthood, and
the creation and enshrinement of unauthorized wooden Honzons.
"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."
"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of
the Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I think
of Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about the
unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred thousand
households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and culture
worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President Ikeda are,
respectively, a very necessary organization and a very necessary leader
for global propagation in the future."
"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make us
an object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations, and,
therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great hindrance to
propagation."
"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is
whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme Law,
the Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the entity
of the Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose the above
is regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as the Soka
Gakkai is concerned, although it slightly departed from the orthodoxy, it
always remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and never forsook
faith in the Gohonzon.
Rather, correcting its mistakes, the Soka Gakkai has pledged to give even
greater protection and service to the priesthood.
Therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to call its past actions a grave
slander. The priests and lay believers who share faith in the Gohonzon
should not criticize or attack the Soka Gakkai. If they do so, they commit
a serious slander by acting against the Daishonin's precept of itai doshin
and thus are slandering the Gohonzon as a result."
Not only did he ignore, and not correct the everyday teachings of the
Sokagakkai. He required that overseas believers belong to it.
Further, he ordered the priesthood not to criticize the Sokagakkai,
regardless of the slander they observed. To be sure, Rev. Abe included
passages in his speech about Sokagakkai correcting their errors, but how
much correcting was done? When, between 1981 and 1987 did Rev. Abe
actually remonstrate with the Gakkai and correct their mistaken teachings?
The Gakkai's misrepresentation and oversimplification of the Daishonin's
teachings continued unabated during the '80s. It was only when the
Sokagakkai began to speak ill of Rev. Abe, himself, that the meetings,
confrontations and warnings began. Those actions were the beginning of the
end for the Sokagakkai's relationship with Nichiren Shoshu.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the myriads
of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued, throughout
it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it appeared to me
that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they wanted, so long
as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when they began to
openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
His legacy.
Pat
Yawn. Nichiren Shoshu, as I have stated many times, grew despite the cult,
not because of it and Nikken Shonin got rid of the cult when the time was
right.

Cody
Shimutani
2005-12-20 16:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Michael Cody wrote:

... and Nikken Shonin got rid of the cult when the time was
Post by Michael Cody
right.
Even though this talk started back in 1980 via Fukuda, Nikken waited
until his pockets couldn't take it anymore.
Michael Cody
2005-12-20 16:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shimutani
... and Nikken Shonin got rid of the cult when the time was
Post by Michael Cody
right.
Even though this talk started back in 1980 via Fukuda, Nikken waited
until his pockets couldn't take it anymore.
"Pockets" had nothing to do with it. The question is why are you a
member of a cult, Alan? Is it because you're stupid?

Cody
Julian
2005-12-20 17:23:10 UTC
Permalink
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
updated, 4 new
Kurt
2005-12-20 23:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
updated, 4 new
I like your work.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Julian
2005-12-20 23:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by Julian
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
updated, 4 new
I like your work.
Cheers.
wgjewel
2005-12-24 12:21:46 UTC
Permalink
As another person who left SGI and joined Hokkeko ...I would have to
agree with the statement that retired High Priest Nikken Shonin did
save true Buddhism...
While in NSA and SGI I experienced a condescending attitude that
basically prejudged and categorized people.....how would they fit into
the organization seemed to be the trend....how could they serve the
organization....how much time or money could they contribute to the
organization...how successfully could they lead other members to reach
the goals of the organization...how many people could they "shakubuku"
recruit....etc.
Chanting seemed to be for organisational goals...little charts were
given out to "help" one keep track...I remeber being preached to that
if peole didn't buy and read the World Tribune and then go back and
read it again and agin as well as all other publications ...they were
not practicing correctly and were cutting themselves off from the life
of Pres. Ikeda and his guidance( which it was also inferred was really
too deep and profound for us to really understand.....but as a fly
holds onto the tail of a horse it can travel many miles quicly..etc
etc.
When I joined the Temple this all changed....I have experienced a
compassion that comes from the Three Treasures..and my attitude has
improved and my life changed in a way that I believe is growth towards
enlightenment and Buddhahood... it will help me learn to be responsible
for what I tell a prospective member ...not just to get them to
join..saying anything and using peer pressure....and promises of almost
magical results.
Nothing is perfect is it but there must be a path to Buddhahood
which can be trusted....To my way of thinking the retired High Priest
Nikken Shonin showed confused and disgusted SGI members that they had a
choice of paths and directed us to take the most trustworthy one.
wgj
Julian
2005-12-24 12:35:46 UTC
Permalink
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com
Reginald Carpenter
2005-12-24 17:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
******************************************************
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Mon, Dec 19, 2005, 9:11pm (CST+1) From: ***@nospamcox.net
(Sundevil)

"Michael Cody" <***@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message news:TADpf.137255$***@news.ono.com...
***@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

[Cody] He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the
jaws of the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
---------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Sundevil
If Rev. Abe were the official High Priest, there would have to be a
uniformity and harmony of his words and actions with those of his
predecessor, High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. For, Nichiren Shoshu
emphasizes the fusion of the minds of master and disciples. In spite of
this, the words and actions of Rev. Abe are vastly different from
guidance of High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. <<< #1.

RC comments: #1). First of all, I don't know when this was originally
written, but it is obviously out of date now. For example, the first
sentence above to be true, it should have read/ said in past tense that,
"If Rev. Abe had been a real High Priest," and the rest of this entire
message continued in past tense. Aside from that, in retrospect and
especially from what has finally come to light about Him, I/ Stoney (me)
can now agree & concede that the so called (Jap.) Shoshinkai priests &
lay group were indeed Right all along in what they had said years ago
about the so called 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin, nka. as NST -
Nikken Stealin' & Trickin'! LOL.

So, THAT is really how He is "going to go [down] in history, as the
NaSTy man who STOLE True Buddhism", completing duping & misleading
Everybody, including the Soka Gakkai/ SGI, and who just took over it's
highest office & position in the so called Nichiren Shoshu priesthood,
nka. the NSS - Nichiren Shoshu (Shysters!), Senor Cody.

"How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin.

WorldPeace! } : < { 0
======================================
Examples of Rev. Abe going against the intent of Nittatsu Shonin
You can refer to Nittatsu Shonin's March speech to the priesthood, or
his January address to the Danto General Tozan.
The actions and teachings of the Gakkai, both before Nittatsu Shonin's
death, and afterwards:
The SGI with NST denigrated the Gohonzon, giving it to virtually anyone
with a pulse ("Have a Gohonzon"). Read Reply to Nii-ama and contrast the
Daishonin's caution in bestowing the Gohonzon to the Gakkai's behavior.
The SGI with NST taught that by chanting for your desires, you could
attain Buddhahood.
The SGI with NST taught that Human Revolution is the objective of
Buddhist practice.
When the SGI with NST taught about "faith", they taught that it meant to
chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and do gongyo, and that "practice" meant to do
gakkai activities.
The SGI with NST taught that of the 14 slanders, their members need only
concern themselves with the last 4.
The SGI with NST mistranslated the first part of the 4th silent prayer,
which should read "and to fulfill my great wish (daigan)", not "and to
fulfill my wishes"
To the extent that they taught that faith meant "belief", they taught
that it meant the belief that you could get what you wanted by chanting
for it.
The SGI with NST taught that during morning gongyo, one should focus
concretely on your day's activities.
The SGI with NST taught that truly powerful Gongyo and Daimoku is
performed at breakneck speeds.
The SGI with NST taught that Ushitora Gongyo could be performed for the
fulfillment of "difficult" wishes or the resolution of difficulties.
The SGI with NST taught that Kosen-rufu means "World Peace".
The SGI with NST taught that their members were all Bodhisattvas of the
Earth.
The SGI with NST gave primacy to the Daimoku among the Three Great
Secret Laws.
The SGI with NST taught that the completion of the Sho Hondo marked the
completion of the Three Great Secret Laws.
They taught that Hon'in-myo meant "start fresh".
The SGI with NST taught that if you followed an incorrect leader, you
would be protected while the leader would be punished.
The SGI with NST taught that you could practice Buddhism while
practicing another religion ("You don't have to give up Judaism to
become a Buddhist. You can be a Jewish Buddhist", said GMW).
They taught that Itai Doshin meant uniting behind a leader.
The SGI with NST taught that it was not necessary to believe, only to
chant.
They taught that Buddhism was something you could "add" to your life to
make it better.
The SGI with NST characterized the Daishonin's Buddhism as his
"philosophy" (and Mr. Ikeda as a philosopher).
The SGI with NST taught that the fulfillment of mundane prayers
constituted "actual proof".
The SGI with NST staged and encouraged participation in a myriad of
"activities" that had nothing to do with Buddhism, but characterized
them as Buddhism.
Add to this, the teaching of Ikeda is the Buddha, which Nittatsu Shonin
discussed in some depth in his April 1979 address to the priesthood, and
the creation and enshrinement of unauthorized wooden Honzons.
But when Rev. Abe addressed them, he made statements like:
"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."
"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of
the Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I
think of Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about
the unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred
thousand households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and
culture worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President
Ikeda are, respectively, a very necessary organization and a very
necessary leader for global propagation in the future."
"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make
us an object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations,
and, therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great
hindrance to propagation."
"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism
is whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme
Law, the Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the
entity of the Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose
the above is regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as
the Soka Gakkai is concerned, although it slightly departed from the
orthodoxy, it always remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and
never forsook faith in the Gohonzon.
Rather, correcting its mistakes, the Soka Gakkai has pledged to give
even greater protection and service to the priesthood.
Therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to call its past actions a
grave slander. The priests and lay believers who share faith in the
Gohonzon should not criticize or attack the Soka Gakkai. If they do so,
they commit a serious slander by acting against the Daishonin's precept
of itai doshin and thus are slandering the Gohonzon as a result."
Not only did he ignore, and not correct the everyday teachings of the
Sokagakkai. He required that overseas believers belong to it.
Further, he ordered the priesthood not to criticize the Sokagakkai,
regardless of the slander they observed. To be sure, Rev. Abe included
passages in his speech about Sokagakkai correcting their errors, but how
much correcting was done? When, between 1981 and 1987 did Rev. Abe
actually remonstrate with the Gakkai and correct their mistaken
teachings? The Gakkai's misrepresentation and oversimplification of the
Daishonin's teachings continued unabated during the '80s. It was only
when the Sokagakkai began to speak ill of Rev. Abe, himself, that the
meetings, confrontations and warnings began. Those actions were the
beginning of the end for the Sokagakkai's relationship with Nichiren
Shoshu.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
His legacy.
Pat
******************************************************


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*
d***@netscape.net
2005-12-24 17:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
"If Rev. Abe had been a real High Priest," and the rest of this entire
message continued in past tense. Aside from that, in retrospect and
especially from what has finally come to light about Him, I/ Stoney (me)
can now agree & concede that the so called (Jap.) Shoshinkai priests &
lay group were indeed Right all along in what they had said years ago
about the so called 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin, nka. as NST -
Nikken Stealin' & Trickin'! LOL.
Versus Soka gakkai president, Einsosuke Akiya, 12/13/90:

"There can be no argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original
foundation of faith is the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to
Golden Mouth, of the Living Essence of the Law upon the successive
generations of High Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of
the member of the Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply
denied the foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living
Essence of the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously
instigated legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the
height of insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of
people possessed by evil daemons, for which they should be most
severely censured as human beings."

---

Derek Juhl
Julian
2005-12-24 18:02:53 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:

snip.

Volume I complete
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
d***@netscape.net
2005-12-24 18:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
Volume I complete
What does your blog have to do with Soka gakkai president, Einsosuke
Akiya, 12/13/90?

"There can be no argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original
foundation of faith is the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to
Golden Mouth, of the Living Essence of the Law upon the successive
generations of High Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of
the member of the Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply
denied the foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living
Essence of the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously
instigated legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the
height of insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of
people possessed by evil daemons, for which they should be most
severely censured as human beings."

---

Derek Juhl
Julian
2005-12-24 18:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netscape.net
Post by Julian
Volume I complete
What does your blog have to do with Soka gakkai president, Einsosuke
Akiya, 12/13/90?
They are related.
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
Kurt
2005-12-24 19:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netscape.net
Post by Julian
Volume I complete
What does your blog have to do with Soka gakkai president, Einsosuke
Akiya, 12/13/90?
"There can be no argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original
foundation of faith is the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to
Golden Mouth, of the Living Essence of the Law upon the successive
generations of High Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of
the member of the Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply
denied the foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living
Essence of the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously
instigated legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the
height of insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of
people possessed by evil daemons, for which they should be most
severely censured as human beings."
---
Derek Juhl
He's been spamming the group with his art blog website.
Was cute in the beginning, now it's just annoying.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Julian
2005-12-24 20:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by d***@netscape.net
Post by Julian
Volume I complete
What does your blog have to do with Soka gakkai president, Einsosuke
Akiya, 12/13/90?
"There can be no argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original
foundation of faith is the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to
Golden Mouth, of the Living Essence of the Law upon the successive
generations of High Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of
the member of the Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply
denied the foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living
Essence of the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously
instigated legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the
height of insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of
people possessed by evil daemons, for which they should be most
severely censured as human beings."
---
Derek Juhl
He's been spamming the group with his art blog website.
Was cute in the beginning, now it's just annoying.
I've still a way to go to match Dereks'
8995 reposts of tired, old opinions.
Find a comfy chair.
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
Kurt
2005-12-25 02:13:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
I've still a way to go to match Dereks'
8995 reposts of tired, old opinions.
Find a comfy chair.
http://ptlslzb87.spamspot.com/
Let's not and say we did...
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Reginald Carpenter
2006-01-02 00:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Good day, everyone! Re. "DerekJuhl" posting on 12/24/05, 9:46am CST-2.
******************************************************
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 9:46am (CST-2) From: ***@netscape.net

Reginald Carpenter wrote:
"If Rev. Abe had been a real High Priest," and the rest of this entire
message continued in past tense. Aside from that, in retrospect and
especially from what has finally come to light about Him, I/ Stoney (me)
can now agree & concede that the so called (Jap.) Shoshinkai priests &
lay group were indeed Right all along in what they had said years ago
about the so called 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin, nka. as NST -
Nikken Stealin' & Trickin'! =A0 LOL."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Versus Soka Gakkai president, Einsosuke [sic] Akiya, 12/13/90:
"There can be no argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original
foundation of faith is the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to
Golden Mouth, of the Living Essence of the Law upon the successive
generations of High Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of
the member of the Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply
denied the foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living
Essence of the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously
instigated legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the
height of insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of people
possessed by evil daemons [sic], for which they should be most severely
censured as human beings."
---
Derek Juhl
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: Well, let's "set the record straight". Obviously, those
words were really No-thing [Zen] more than "the height of insanity"
spoken on Dec 13, 1990 by that Soka Gakkai politician, Vice President
Einosuke Akiya, BEFORE his Dumb-ass was DISmissed only two (2) weeks
later as a senior lay representative on 12/28/90 and was later
EXCOMMUNICATED in 1991 "very graciously" by the so called Nichiren
Shoshu priest-hoods! ROTFL.

Subsequently in the very next month, Mr Akiya began in effect to equate
the High Priest & NaSTy priest-hood with those Shoshinkai priests that
it had defrocked & expelled from it years before as being an "evil
authority":

"By the term, evil authority, he [D. Ikeda] has pointed to the tendency
to look down on the lay believers as evidenced by the Shoshinkai
priests."**

**Reference: "Letter of Protest (II)" by E. Akiya, dated Jan 17, 1991,
published in the "Issues Between the Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood and the
Soka Gakkai" Vol 2 booklet, page #27.

And, in the very same above letter, Mr Akiya contradicted what he wrote
on 12/13/90
by quoting from a book that had been written by the 67th High Priest/
Nikken Shonin when He was the Nichiren Shoshu's Study Dept Chief:

"Nichiren Shoshu is established, NOT based upon intellectual
understanding but upon the "ichinen" of faith in the Gohonzon"!**

**Reference: excerpted from "Nichiren Shoshu Ryakuge"/ Brief Explanation
of Nichiren Shoshu Doctrines.

So, since they both quite readily "change the tune" of the alleged to be
"doctrines" according to their religious politics of necessity, just
quoting & requoting either the NSS (mess!) - Nichiren Shoshu (Shysters!)
or anyone in the SGI like Mr Akiya out of context like you always do is
just a complete waste of time, "DerekJuhl" FOOL! - sez "Mr T." LOL.

Because in 1990, what Mr Akiya said referred to the specific
inheritance/ transfer of the Law, and he also contradicted that with
what he wrote about six (6) months later in 1991 when he finally quoted
what Nichiren Daishonin/ the True Buddha had to say about what "the
original foundation of faith in Nichiren Shoshu" is really supposed to
be:

"Nichiren Daishonin states in the Gosho, "Heritage of the Ultimate Law
of Life":

"Shakyamuni [Buddha] who attained enlightenment countless aeons ago, the
Lotus Sutra [Gohonzon] which leads all people to Buddhahood, and we
ordinary human beings are in No way different or separate from each
other. Therefore, to chant Myoho-renge-kyo with this realization
[FAITH] is to inherit the ultimate law of life and death. To carry on
[propagate] this heritage is the most important task for Nichiren's
disciples; and, that is precisely what it means to embrace the Lotus
Sutra [Gohonzon]." (MW-1, pg 22)

IOW - the basis of faith is all about Nichiren Daishonin's believers
having faith in His true teaching - the Gohonzon, NOT in the "face to
face bestowals" between high priests, or in worshipping priest-hoods, or
in following any people & politicians in any organizations, DJuhl you
FOOL! - sez "Mr T." LOL.

WorldPeace! } : < { 0
******************************************************


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*
d***@netscape.net
2006-01-02 03:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
RC replies: Well, let's "set the record straight". Obviously, those
words were really No-thing [Zen] more than "the height of insanity"
spoken on Dec 13, 1990 by that Soka Gakkai politician, Vice President
Einosuke Akiya, BEFORE his Dumb-ass was DISmissed only two (2) weeks
later as a senior lay representative on 12/28/90 and was later
EXCOMMUNICATED in 1991 "very graciously" by the so called Nichiren
Shoshu priest-hoods! ROTFL.
"If, in the future, having grown larger, the Gakkai should exert
pressure on the Priesthood or interfere in its internal affairs,
please, at any time, order the Gakkai to disband." 2nd Soka Gakkai
President, Josei Toda, August 10, 1956, Myodenji, Okayama City

"Since the time of the former president, Mr. Makiguchi, the Gakkai
spirit has been to support any High Priest, and the Gakkai will keep
this spirit forever. If anyone in this organization complains about
this, and goes against this Gakkai spirit, I'll be ready to expel him
from the organization even if he should be a top leader. The lay
believers' spirit and attitude toward the Head Temple must be like
this." Josei Toda, January 29, 1956. Reference Toda Josei Zenshu, Vol.
3, p. 235.

"Any person who is not obedient to the High Priest, whatever the reason
may be, is no longer a Priest or lay member of Nichiren Shoshu. This is
because there is no error more fundamental than this." SGI President
Daisaku Ikeda, November 24, 1981, predicting his excommunication a
decade later

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2006-01-02 03:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
IOW - the basis of faith is all about Nichiren Daishonin's believers
having faith in His true teaching - the Gohonzon, NOT in the "face to
face bestowals" between high priests, or in worshipping priest-hoods, or
in following any people & politicians in any organizations, DJuhl you
FOOL! - sez "Mr T." LOL.
Versus:

"We conduct the third prayer to express our deepest appreciation to
Nichiren Daishonin, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law. In this
third silent prayer, we also offer our gratitude to Nikko Shonin, the
second High Priest and the founder of Taisekiji. Further, we offer our
appreciation to the third High Priest, Nichimoku Shonin, and all the
successive High Priests of Nichiren Shoshu, each of whom transmitted
the Heritage of the Law to the next. Presently, as you know, the 67th
high priest, Nikken Shonin has inherited the Law. Now he is the master
of true Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol. 1, p. 107

"Members of the Minobu school of the Nichiren sect chant daimoku. They
have the Gosho. Their recitation of the sutra also includes the Hoben
and Juryo chapters. And, in the Shoshinkai, which consists of
ex-priests of Nichiren Shoshu, the portions of the sutra they recite
and the daimoku that they chant are identical to the practice we
observe. Though their religion may seem the same as ours, they lack the
single, unbroken Heritage of the Law recieved directly from Nichiren
Daishonin. If one's faith is not based on this line of inheritance, it
is worthless to embrace any Gohonzon, for no benefit will be
forthcoming. That is to say, 'Without the lifeblood of faith, it would
be useless to embrace the Lotus Sutra.'" Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in
Action, vol. 3, p. 254

"The fundamental principle of Nichiren Shoshu is the Heritage of the
Law transmitted to a sole person. It is, indeed, the correct objective
for both Priesthood and laity to follow the High Priest who has
received this Heritage of the Law. If we err on this single point,
everything will crumble. The Soka Gakkai has followed the successive
High Priests. I am confident, therefore, that we will absolutely
prosper for eternity." Daisaku Ikeda, Jan. 24, 1982, Soka Univ.
gymnasium: "Kofu to Jinsei Wo Kataru," vol. 3, p. 32

"In this sect (Nichiren Shoshu), the Living Essence, Uninterrupted
Light of the Law has been bestowed like the transferal of the water of
the Law from one vessel to another upon each specifically chosen High
Priest in the lineage until the present day. To the last, the True
Buddha is Nichiren Daishonin, and we must revere the inner
enlightenment of the High Priests, which is only bestowed on and
between High Priests, in the same way that we revere the Daishonin."
Daisaku Ikeda, May 3, 1979

"Here, the 'Treasure of the Priest' refers to the High Priests in the
line of Nikko Shonin, who are the only ones who have received the
transmission of the Living Essence of the Law until the present day.
Furthermore, all of the Priests are the disciples of the High Priest.
They are the House of the Law. Consequently, no matter what the
circumstances may be, we must hold the Priests in a place of
importance." Daisaku Ikeda, February 28, 1978

"The 'Treasure of the Priest' refers to the 2nd High Priest of this
sect, Nikko Shonin, and as the 3rd president has stated, also refers to
the High Priests, the only persons who have received the Living Essence
of the Law." Seikyo Shimbun, June 30, 1978

"The Treasure of the Priest begins with Nikko Shonin, who correctly
acceded to the possession of the Living Essence of the Law of True
Buddhism, continues with the successive generations of High Priests,
and in a broader sense, includes all of the members of the Priesthood
who are of the House of the High Priest of the Law." Daisaku Ikeda,
"Daibyaku Renge," November 1979 issue, reprinted in October 1983 issue

"Any person who is not obedient to the High Priest, whatever the reason
may be, is no longer a Priest or lay member of Nichiren Shoshu. This is
because there is no error more fundamental than this." Daisaku Ikeda,
November 24, 1981, predicting his excommunication a decade later

"The foundation of Nichiren Shoshu is the Bestowal of the Living
Essence of the Law upon the One and Only Person. The only correct path
for both Priests and lay believers is to proceed in obedience to the
High Priest because of that Face to Face Bestowal of the Living Essence
of the Law." Daisaku Ikeda, Jan. 24, 1982

"Till the end, only the High Priest's instruction can be the basis for
the doctrines of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, April
17, 1981

"The inheritance of the Living Essence of the Law is the origin of
Nichiren Shoshu. With the Dai-Gohonzon as their source, the successive
generations of High Priests, the only ones to whom this has been
transferred, have continued in their Eternal Protection of the Law."
Daisaku Ikeda, July 24, 1982

Derek Juhl
Sundevil
2006-01-02 04:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netscape.net
"Any person who is not obedient to the High Priest, whatever the reason
may be, is no longer a Priest or lay member of Nichiren Shoshu. This is
because there is no error more fundamental than this." Daisaku Ikeda,
November 24, 1981
"Till the end, only the High Priest's instruction can be the basis for
the doctrines of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, April
17, 1981
Derek Juhl
Some quotes from Rev Abe:

"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."

"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of the
Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I think of
Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about the
unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred thousand
households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and culture
worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President Ikeda are,
respectively, a very necessary organization and a very necessary leader for
global propagation in the future."

"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make us an
object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations, and,
therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great hindrance to
propagation."

"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is
whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme Law, the
Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the entity of the
Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose the above is
regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as the Soka Gakkai is
concerned, although it slightly departed from the orthodoxy, it always
remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and never forsook faith in
the Gohonzon.
------------------
Naturally one must obey the High Priest. Following the teachings of a false
High Priest, however, will both destroy this Buddhism and the Daishonin's
will. For this reason, Rev. Abe should not have been followed.

a) The "Shogu Mondo Sho" (Japanese Gosho, p. 492) reads "From the point of
view of society a man who blindly follows his parents or his master is at
once a loyal subject and dutiful son. But, such a demonstration of duty,
through the eyes of a wise man, is not befitting of the true meaning of
dutifulness."

b) Further in the same gosho it says, "If one wishes to fulfill his
obligation, he must strongly speak out and admonish when necessary. But, if
he were to knowingly follow an amoral master he would be a crafty retainer
who escapes repaying his indebtedness."

c) And again in the "Shogu Mondo Sho" we read, "One should first seek the
truth and take advantage of it before making any decision."

d) Kokyo, a Chinese scholar, said in his Book of Filial Duty, "Children
should never oppose their parents; a warrior never opposes his lord."

e) Tai-gen, a Confucian philosopher, said, "If a lord or father is incorrect
and the warrior or child does not admonish, then the country will collapse
and the family will be destroyed."

f) Another Confucian states, "If you don't admonish the error of your lord
you are not a faithful warrior, if you don't speak out because of fear of
death you are not a brave man."

g) Dengyo the Great said, "When the father goes astray the son must admonish
him. When the lord or master goes astray the samurai must fight him. When
the teacher goes astray the disciple must challenge him."

h) The Nirvana Sutra reads, "If one betrays Buddhism, he is an obstacle to
the Buddhist Law. To associate with people and not teach true Buddhism
displays a lack of mercy and an obstacle to their practice. A true believer
tries to eliminate these obstacles, exhibiting the virtue of a parent."

Regards,

Sd
Kurt
2006-01-02 17:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sundevil
Post by d***@netscape.net
"Any person who is not obedient to the High Priest, whatever the reason
may be, is no longer a Priest or lay member of Nichiren Shoshu. This is
because there is no error more fundamental than this." Daisaku Ikeda,
November 24, 1981
"Till the end, only the High Priest's instruction can be the basis for
the doctrines of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, April
17, 1981
Derek Juhl
"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."
"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of the
Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I think of
Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about the
unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred thousand
households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and culture
worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President Ikeda are,
respectively, a very necessary organization and a very necessary leader for
global propagation in the future."
"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make us an
object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations, and,
therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great hindrance to
propagation."
"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is
whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme Law, the
Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the entity of the
Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose the above is
regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as the Soka Gakkai is
concerned, although it slightly departed from the orthodoxy, it always
remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and never forsook faith in
the Gohonzon.
------------------
I don't have those quotes anywhere, but they seem plausible given a
situation at the time where the High Priest was trying to help the
Gakkai save face and give them another chance.

Later events by the SGI showed Nichiren Shoshu that this was not going
to be possible and he made the hard decision to protect the law.

The bottom quote sums it up. I think this could be also taken as a
warning.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Reginald Carpenter
2006-01-02 08:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Sun, Jan 1, 2006, 6:27pm
From: ***@webtv.net (Reginald=A0Carpenter)

Good day, everyone! Re. "DerekJuhl" posting on 12/24/05, 9:46am CST-2.
******************************************************
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate
Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 9:46am (CST-2) From: ***@netscape.net

Reginald Carpenter wrote:
"If Rev. Abe had been a real High Priest," and the rest of this entire
message continued in past tense. Aside from that, in retrospect and
especially from what has finally come to light about Him, I/ Stoney (me)
can now agree & concede that the so called (Jap.) Shoshinkai priests &
lay group were indeed Right all along in what they had said years ago
about the so called 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin, nka. as NST -
Nikken Stealin' & Trickin'! =A0 LOL."
--------------------------------------------------------------- Versus
Soka Gakkai president, Einsosuke [sic] Akiya, 12/13/90: "There can be no
argument that in Nichiren Shoshu, the original foundation of faith is
the Face to Face Bestowal, from Golden Mouth to Golden Mouth, of the
Living Essence of the Law upon the successive generations of High
Priests. (omission) We believe that the actions of the member of the
Shoshinkai who, under the circumstances, quite simply denied the
foundation of Nichiren Shoshu, the inheritance of the Living Essence of
the Law by the High Priest, and moreover, very graciously instigated
legal proceedings against the High Priest, are not only the height of
insanity, but are also nothing more than the actions of people possessed
by evil daemons [sic], for which they should be most severely censured
as human beings."
---
Derek Juhl
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: Well, let's "set the record straight". Obviously, those
words were really No-thing [Zen] more than "the height of insanity"
spoken on Dec 13, 1990 by that Soka Gakkai politician, SGI Vice
President Einosuke Akiya, BEFORE his Dumb-ass was DISmissed only two (2)
weeks later as a senior lay representative on 12/28/90 and was later
EXCOMMUNICATED in 1991 "very graciously" by the so called Nichiren
Shoshu priest-hoods! ROTFL.

Subsequently in the very next month, Mr Akiya began in effect to equate
the High Priest & NaSTy priest-hood with those Shoshinkai priests that
it had defrocked & expelled from it years before as being an "evil
authority":
"By the term, evil authority, he [D. Ikeda] has pointed to the tendency
to look down on the lay believers as evidenced by the Shoshinkai
priests."**

**Reference: "Letter of Protest (II)" by E. Akiya, dated Jan 17, 1991,
published in the "Issues Between the Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood and the
Soka Gakkai" Vol 2 booklet, page #27.

And, in the very same above letter, Mr Akiya contradicted what he wrote
on 12/13/90
by quoting from a book that had been written by the 67th High Priest/
Nikken Shonin when He was the Nichiren Shoshu's Study Dept Chief:
"Nichiren Shoshu is established, NOT based upon intellectual
understanding but upon the "ichinen" of faith in the Gohonzon"!**

**Reference: excerpted from "Nichiren Shoshu Ryakuge"/ Brief Explanation
of Nichiren Shoshu Doctrines.

So, since they both quite readily "change the tune" of the alleged to be
"doctrines" according to their religious politics of necessity, just
quoting & requoting either the NSS (mess!) - Nichiren Shoshu (Shysters!)
or anyone in the SGI like Mr Akiya out of context like you always do is
just a complete waste of time, "DerekJuhl" FOOL! - sez "Mr T." LOL.

Because in 1990, what Mr Akiya said referred to the specific
inheritance/ transfer of the Law, and he also contradicted that with
what he wrote about six (6) months later in 1991 when he finally quoted
what Nichiren Daishonin/ the True Buddha had to say about what "the
original foundation of faith in Nichiren Shoshu" is really supposed to
be:

"Nichiren Daishonin states in the Gosho, "Heritage of the Ultimate Law
of Life":
"Shakyamuni [Buddha] who attained enlightenment countless aeons ago, the
Lotus Sutra [Gohonzon] which leads all people to Buddhahood, and we
ordinary human beings are in No way different or separate from each
other. Therefore, to chant Myoho-renge-kyo with this realization [FAITH]
is to inherit the ultimate law of life and death. To carry on
[propagate] this heritage is the most important task for Nichiren's
disciples; and, that is precisely what it means to embrace the Lotus
Sutra [Gohonzon]." (MW-1, pg 22) **

**Reference: excerpted from the "Introduction" in the "Issues Between
the Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood and the Soka Gakkai" Vol 3 booklet, pg
xxxiii.

IOW - the basis of faith is all about Nichiren Daishonin's believers
having faith in His true teaching - the Gohonzon, NOT in the "face to
face bestowal" between high priests, or in worshipping priest-hoods, or
in following any people & politicians in any organizations, DJuhl you
FOOL! - sez "Mr T." LOL.
WorldPeace! } : < { 0
******************************************************
Revised & reposted on 1/02/06


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*
Michael Cody
2005-12-24 18:53:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
******************************************************
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate
Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
(Sundevil)
[Cody] He'll go in history as the man who saved True Buddhism from the
jaws of the Soka Gakkai International Ikeda Cult and their SS sub group.
Cody
---------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Sundevil
If Rev. Abe were the official High Priest, there would have to be a
uniformity and harmony of his words and actions with those of his
predecessor, High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. For, Nichiren Shoshu
emphasizes the fusion of the minds of master and disciples. In spite of
this, the words and actions of Rev. Abe are vastly different from
guidance of High Priest Nittatsu Shonin. <<< #1.
RC comments: #1). First of all, I don't know when this was originally
written, but it is obviously out of date now. For example, the first
sentence above to be true, it should have read/ said in past tense that,
"If Rev. Abe had been a real High Priest," and the rest of this entire
message continued in past tense. Aside from that, in retrospect and
especially from what has finally come to light about Him, I/ Stoney (me)
can now agree & concede that the so called (Jap.) Shoshinkai priests &
lay group were indeed Right all along in what they had said years ago
about the so called 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin, nka. as NST -
Nikken Stealin' & Trickin'! LOL.
So, THAT is really how He is "going to go [down] in history, as the
NaSTy man who STOLE True Buddhism", completing duping & misleading
Everybody, including the Soka Gakkai/ SGI, and who just took over it's
highest office & position in the so called Nichiren Shoshu priesthood,
nka. the NSS - Nichiren Shoshu (Shysters!), Senor Cody.
"How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin.
WorldPeace! } : < { 0
======================================
Examples of Rev. Abe going against the intent of Nittatsu Shonin
You can refer to Nittatsu Shonin's March speech to the priesthood, or
his January address to the Danto General Tozan.
The actions and teachings of the Gakkai, both before Nittatsu Shonin's
The SGI with NST denigrated the Gohonzon, giving it to virtually anyone
with a pulse ("Have a Gohonzon"). Read Reply to Nii-ama and contrast the
Daishonin's caution in bestowing the Gohonzon to the Gakkai's behavior.
The SGI with NST taught that by chanting for your desires, you could
attain Buddhahood.
The SGI with NST taught that Human Revolution is the objective of
Buddhist practice.
When the SGI with NST taught about "faith", they taught that it meant to
chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and do gongyo, and that "practice" meant to do
gakkai activities.
The SGI with NST taught that of the 14 slanders, their members need only
concern themselves with the last 4.
The SGI with NST mistranslated the first part of the 4th silent prayer,
which should read "and to fulfill my great wish (daigan)", not "and to
fulfill my wishes"
To the extent that they taught that faith meant "belief", they taught
that it meant the belief that you could get what you wanted by chanting
for it.
The SGI with NST taught that during morning gongyo, one should focus
concretely on your day's activities.
The SGI with NST taught that truly powerful Gongyo and Daimoku is
performed at breakneck speeds.
The SGI with NST taught that Ushitora Gongyo could be performed for the
fulfillment of "difficult" wishes or the resolution of difficulties.
The SGI with NST taught that Kosen-rufu means "World Peace".
The SGI with NST taught that their members were all Bodhisattvas of the
Earth.
The SGI with NST gave primacy to the Daimoku among the Three Great
Secret Laws.
The SGI with NST taught that the completion of the Sho Hondo marked the
completion of the Three Great Secret Laws.
They taught that Hon'in-myo meant "start fresh".
The SGI with NST taught that if you followed an incorrect leader, you
would be protected while the leader would be punished.
The SGI with NST taught that you could practice Buddhism while
practicing another religion ("You don't have to give up Judaism to
become a Buddhist. You can be a Jewish Buddhist", said GMW).
They taught that Itai Doshin meant uniting behind a leader.
The SGI with NST taught that it was not necessary to believe, only to chant.
They taught that Buddhism was something you could "add" to your life to
make it better.
The SGI with NST characterized the Daishonin's Buddhism as his
"philosophy" (and Mr. Ikeda as a philosopher).
The SGI with NST taught that the fulfillment of mundane prayers
constituted "actual proof".
The SGI with NST staged and encouraged participation in a myriad of
"activities" that had nothing to do with Buddhism, but characterized
them as Buddhism.
Add to this, the teaching of Ikeda is the Buddha, which Nittatsu Shonin
discussed in some depth in his April 1979 address to the priesthood, and
the creation and enshrinement of unauthorized wooden Honzons.
"It can therefore be said that the directions and policies of the Soka
Gakkai during that period were extreme, to be sure, but I believe this
happened out of eagerness to realize Kosen-rufu, the will of Nichiren
Daishonin, and was not a deviation caused by any fundamentally evil
intention."
"When I consider the faith, experience, and organizational management of
the Soka Gakkai, which are solidly based on the Gohonzon, and when I
think of Honorary President Ikeda's leadership which has brought about
the unprecedented shakubuku result of seven million and eight hundred
thousand households in Japan, as well as his achievements for peace and
culture worldwide, I believe the Soka Gakkai and Honorary President
Ikeda are, respectively, a very necessary organization and a very
necessary leader for global propagation in the future."
"For followers of the true teaching to criticize one another will make
us an object of contempt and ridicule by other sects and denominations,
and, therefore, I think such criticism in and of itself is a great
hindrance to propagation."
"The standard for judging good and bad in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism
is whether one faithfully follows, or slanderously opposes the supreme
Law, the Myoho-renge-kyo, to which the Buddha was enlightened, and the
entity of the Law which was transmitted to Bodhisattva Jogyo. To oppose
the above is regarded as a great slander and a great evil. Insofar as
the Soka Gakkai is concerned, although it slightly departed from the
orthodoxy, it always remained a lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu and
never forsook faith in the Gohonzon.
Rather, correcting its mistakes, the Soka Gakkai has pledged to give
even greater protection and service to the priesthood.
Therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to call its past actions a
grave slander. The priests and lay believers who share faith in the
Gohonzon should not criticize or attack the Soka Gakkai. If they do so,
they commit a serious slander by acting against the Daishonin's precept
of itai doshin and thus are slandering the Gohonzon as a result."
Not only did he ignore, and not correct the everyday teachings of the
Sokagakkai. He required that overseas believers belong to it.
Further, he ordered the priesthood not to criticize the Sokagakkai,
regardless of the slander they observed. To be sure, Rev. Abe included
passages in his speech about Sokagakkai correcting their errors, but how
much correcting was done? When, between 1981 and 1987 did Rev. Abe
actually remonstrate with the Gakkai and correct their mistaken
teachings? The Gakkai's misrepresentation and oversimplification of the
Daishonin's teachings continued unabated during the '80s. It was only
when the Sokagakkai began to speak ill of Rev. Abe, himself, that the
meetings, confrontations and warnings began. Those actions were the
beginning of the end for the Sokagakkai's relationship with Nichiren
Shoshu.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
His legacy.
Pat
******************************************************
<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*
I'm sorry to see that you have fallen for the SGI Ikeda Cult and
Shoshinkai lies.

Cody
Chris
2005-12-26 05:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.

Chris
Michael Cody
2005-12-26 09:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
You've got to be kidding. Then, again, being as you're brainwashed to
believe anything negative about Nichiren Shoshu or the High Priest, it's
to be expected that you would make such an erroneous comment.

Cody
Chris
2005-12-27 19:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
You've got to be kidding.
Chris:
He gives a long list of doctrinal and outright abuses that were openly
put out prior to 1991 without the Priests doing (openly) more than
politely complaining in their meetings. And when some priests did
complain about those things, what happened to those priests? They were
told put up or shut up; hence the Shoshinkai mess.

Now don't get me wrong, I remember efforts sponsored by the priests to
re-educate us misguided "Gaijin." I also remember that we were given
predigested dogma. What do you believe, a miraculous tooth, or
literary, theoretical and actual proofs?

I also remember how educationally challenged some of the core members
of both groups can be.
Post by Chris
Then, again, being as you're brainwashed to believe anything negative about
Nichiren Shoshu or the High Priest, it's to be expected that you would make
such an erroneous comment.
Ah, come on Mike. My critiques of Nichiren Shoshu are powder puff stuff
compared to the real hard core stuff I'd put out if I believed
everything "negative" I read. For completely nutzo hard-core hate, you
have to go to Chaz or someone who still takes these issues seriously. I
just don't believe the BS. And I don't believe that the retired High
Priest was an angel either.

One reason for looking at the history is perspective:

These guys have been fighting among themselves at least since 1333. And
they still are.

Chris
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-26 10:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started
to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before
by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in
person by Ikeda.
@lex
Michael Cody
2005-12-26 10:20:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started
to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before
by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in
person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.

Cody
Julian
2005-12-26 14:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started
to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before
by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in
person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.
And seasons greetings to you too Codeine.
http://ptlslzb87.blogspot.com/
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-28 13:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be
attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the Shoshinkai
had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and slanders in SGI.
Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been ostracized by Abe Nikken
to please the SGI, and then "10 years after" when they began to
criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
Michael Cody
2005-12-28 13:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be
attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the Shoshinkai
had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and slanders in SGI.
Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been ostracized by Abe Nikken
to please the SGI, and then "10 years after" when they began to
criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.

Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True Buddhism
needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do that
excommunicated themselves.
--
Cody

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-28 13:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True Buddhism
needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do that
excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
Michael Cody
2005-12-28 13:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside
observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
--
Cody

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Kurt
2005-12-28 16:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Including L.A.'s chief priest in the early 70's, Rev Furuya. (I received
gojukai from him)
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Sundevil
2005-12-28 17:07:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Including L.A.'s chief priest in the early 70's, Rev Furuya. (I received
gojukai from him)
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
The only priest to return to NST was Rev Furuya, while NST had a bunch of
priests return to supporting Gakkai doctrine (Domei priests)

Regards.

Sd
Michael Cody
2005-12-28 17:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Including L.A.'s chief priest in the early 70's, Rev Furuya. (I received
gojukai from him)
So did I, in 1969 out at Etiwanda :-)
--
Cody

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-29 09:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Including L.A.'s chief priest in the early 70's, Rev Furuya. (I received
gojukai from him)
Do you mean that Rev. Furuya was one of the Shoshinkai priest that you
have known who came back to Nichiren Shoshu ????
@lex
Kurt
2005-12-29 16:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Kurt
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True
Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do
that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Including L.A.'s chief priest in the early 70's, Rev Furuya. (I received
gojukai from him)
Do you mean that Rev. Furuya was one of the Shoshinkai priest that you
have known who came back to Nichiren Shoshu ????
@lex
yes.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-29 09:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the
Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years
after" when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want
them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he
did what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of
Nichiren Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with
True Buddhism needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who
didn't do that excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda
and Akiya excommunication????
As there were 10 years before ahead????
@lex
I don't think the two are connected. The Shoshinkai did not accept High
Priest Nikken Shonin as the new High Priest. Many have come back, btw.
Do you know some of them???? What happened to the great Rev. Kando
Tono???????????????
@lex
Alex Beauroy
2005-12-28 13:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Michael Cody
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers
started to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10
years before by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to
be attacked in person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies
about the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members'
throats than lying about doctrine.
Cody
I think that 10 years before the excommunication of SGI, the
Shoshinkai had already made clear all the doctrinal deviations and
slanders in SGI. Don't you think that the Shoshinkai have been
ostracized by Abe Nikken to please the SGI, and then "10 years after"
when they began to criticize him in person he didn't want them anymore.
@lex
No, I don't think that. I think that High Priest Nikken Shonin gave
Ikeda the benefit of the doubt, accepted his apology, and gave him
another chance. When it became obvious that Ikeda's apology wasn't
sincere and that Ikeda was trying to take over Nichiren Shoshu, he did
what he had to do.
Also, SGI was not excommunicated. Two individuals were, Ikeda and the
Soka Gakkai president at the time, whose name I cannot remember
(Akiya?). SGI was ordered to disband as a lay organization of Nichiren
Shoshu. And those SGI members who wanted to continue with True Buddhism
needed to switch to the Hokkeko. Any SGI member who didn't do that
excommunicated themselves.
So why the Shoshinkai priest didn't come back to Taisekiji after Ikeda's
and Akiya's excommunications????
As there were 11 years ahead????
@lex
Chris
2005-12-28 15:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
Post by Reginald Carpenter
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started
to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before
by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in
person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.
Cody, your argument is kind of old, very old -- and it doesn't make any
sense, never did make any sense, and still doesn't make any sense. It
is the response of a person who refuses to look at the evidence
objectively.

Now when the Shoshinkai [true faith] priests bolted in the late
1979-1980's, the Shoshinkai priests put out literature that criticized
Chief priest Nikken and the other priests on doctrinal and substantive
grounds. Their stance was initially as "true faith" critics not
wishing to "destroy" either group -- but only to get them to
voluntarily reform and correct their "slander of the dharma" -- and in
the case of Nikken for him to presumably step down or at least answer
questions in a non-authoritarian manner.

The Gakkai's response was to vigorously and viciously seek out
Shoshinkai members, isolate them, and tar them as "slanderers of the
dharma" on the basis of emotional and sometimes misleading arguments.
In 1982 I received a document in the mail called "Re-establishing Our
True Faith" about this issue. It was a point by point refutation of the
allegations of the Shoshinkai. The Gakkai tarred most lay members
"influenced" by the Shoshinkai as "Danto" members. Now they may have
been setting the field for their rebellion in 1991, but it is more
likely that they were making common cause with the priests against a
common enemy. If one separates out the allegations made against
Nichiren Shoshu, with the exception of the Gossipy BS of the later
material they are similar to ones being made by Gakkai members now.

But what is ironic, is that it was the Gakkai that provided the kinds
of defenses that folks like you and Derek are still quoting. I'd say
that in the 1980's those of us who took these materials seriously were
being preparted to be good Nichiren Shoshu members. There was no
defense at that time of Ikeda's "kechimyaku theories" or other
"doctrinal deviations" attacked by the Shoshinkai.

Likewise it was Nikken's articles, articles from Nittatsu, and other
materials being shared by the priests that defended the Gakkai against
shoshinkai allegations virtually identical to the ones offered up by
you, Derek and others over the past 14 years.

At the time of the split I re-read this article, read everything, and
evaluated the facts for myself. Later in 2000 or so I started
re-reading this document and others in the light of subsequent events.
What i found was funny( in the sense of smelly) and is that the
materials put out by NST contain nearly identical allegations aimed at
the Gakkai.

When I first went to the Temple to find out their side of the "split"
that comparison struck me then. I felt betrayed because the priests had
told me that those were non-issues and had "refuted" the Shoshinkai
allegations against the Gakkai, while the Gakkai had "refuted" the
Shoshinkai allegations against NST in the name of "unity between
Priests and laypeople", "wagoso" and all that stuff. The materials
offered in 1991 directly contradicted materials offered in 1982.

It took several years for the Gakkai to start reversing their
arguments. At first they sounded a bit like the Shoshinkai, but mostly
their initial arguments were all the emotional gossipy stuff and stayed
away from doctrines. These are the "lies" that you, Cody, refer to.

They concentrated on this because they had the sense to know that they
couldn't come out and directly contradict stuff they'd been
vociferously saying only two to three years earlier. Or dig up theories
that they'd denied at that time. Thus it took a while for me to see
the doctrinal drifts and where they lead. Personally it's the
doctrinal stuff that has caused me the most grief. Neither organization
is systematic or careful in how it differentiates doctrines from dogmas
or separates fact from myth/vehicle.

They also did this because they "knew" that priests in Japan (in
general) are a rather corrupt class by Western Standards and they had
been close enough to them to know that this was as true with the
Nichiren Shoshu priests as with any other. The scattershot "tabloid"
way they went about assaulting him was certainly slander -- because
they made no effort to be measured or balanced. If the priests were
corrupt it was partly because Sokagakkai money had corrupted them, and
the Sokagakkai had never really made a real place for priests or even
lay-priests in it's organization. The same leaders who had accompanied
them to tea houses or made their own trips to some of those places, led
the way in complaining about those things when the two "clans" started
fighting. It sells better than dry doctrines and it is titillating.
Nevertheless, some of what they said was true.

Chris
Michael Cody
2005-12-28 16:27:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
Post by Reginald Carpenter
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started
to view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before
by the Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in
person by Ikeda.
@lex
That was only a part of the scheme to brainwash SGI members to hate
Nichiren Shoshu and to take over Nichiren Shoshu. Making up lies about
the High Priest was easier to shove down the SGI members' throats than
lying about doctrine.
Cody, your argument is kind of old, very old -- and it doesn't make any
sense, never did make any sense, and still doesn't make any sense.
Snip speculation big time.
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Chris
I don't care if you believe me anymore. If you're not willing to take a
ten minute drive to the temple and give up a few hours of your time to
talk to a priest, I have nothing more to say to you because everything
you say is therefore hypocritical bullshit. I even offered to arrange
the meeting for you. If I were living in DC, I would have been willing
to take you there myself.
--
Cody

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Yelps
2005-12-31 09:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
******************************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
Once again this sounds right to me as Nichiren Shoshu beleivers started to
view SGI in the light of the critics made more than 10 years before by the
Shoshinkai, only because Abe Nikken started to be attacked in person by
Ikeda.
@lex
Former Los Angeles
Priest Speaks Out:

An Interview With Chief Priest Gun'ei Kudo

The following is an interview with Chief Priest Gun'ei Kudo, the former
chief priest of Myoho-ji temple in Los Angeles and current chief priest of
Choei-ji temple in Tokyo. In this interview, which appeared in the Feb. 19
issue of Soka Shimpo, Mr. Kudo explains why seven priests, including
himself, sent their 'Letter of Remonstration' to High Priest Nikken (see the
Feb. 10 issue of The SGI-USA Newsletter).

On Feb. 3, 1992, seven Nichiren Shoshu priests announced that they had
officially left Nichiren Shoshu. The seven priests include: Gun'ei Kudo;
Shojun Ohashi, chief priest of Daisho-ji temple in Wakayama; Kodo Yoshikawa,
chief priest of Kenbutsu-ji temple in Kyoto; Takudo Ikeda, chief priest of
Seyu-ji temple in Shiga; Yubin Kushioka, chief priest of Noken-ji temple in
Aichi; Yushin Yoshikawa, chief priest of Zenko-ji temple in Nagano; and Yuho
Miyagawa, assistant priest of Choei-ji temple in Tokyo. They took this
action in hopes that Nichiren Shoshu will restore the original spirit of
Nichiren Daishonin and Nikko Shonin. Later, Yugu Nanta, chief priest of
Koryu-ji temple in Hokkaido, followed their example with his own departure
from Nichiren Shoshu on Feb. 8. (Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.)



Soka Shimpo: We understand that you and the other seven priests were
surprised when High Priest Nikken began to criticize the Soka Gakkai at the
end of 1990.
Kudo: True. It seemed to us as though the high priest had changed
personalities; from the time he became high priest in 1979 up to that point,
he had been praising the Soka Gakkai. However, closer observation reveals
that the high priest's underlying attitude has remained unchanged over the
years. In other words, he has inherently been dominated by an elitist,
who's-senior-and-who's-junior consciousness. You may also describe it as an
abnormal thirst for authority and power. While he favors those who obey and
kowtow to him, he despises those who even quietly voice slightly differing
opinions. His anachronistic view of the priesthood's alleged superiority,
which is widely known today, compels him to insist that priests should
always be considered superior to lay believers. This is why he overreacts
whenever the Gakkai attempts to express an opinion, claiming that the Gakkai
is trying to control Nichiren Shoshu. On the other hand, when people are
obedient to him, he commends them as loyal believers.
Soka Shimpo: You have known High Priest Nikken since 1955 when you were an
acolyte at Jonsen-ji temple in Tokyo, which is near Hongyo-ji temple where
he was chief priest. What do you remember about him?
Kudo: He was well known in Nichiren Shoshu for his hot temper, which often
resulted in violent outbursts toward acolytes. In fact, acolytes were
frightened on him because he would often hit them. He never hit me, however;
I knew that if he did I would hit him back. In short, he only hit those who
didn't seem to have the guts to retaliate. I think he is a coward.
Soka Shimpo: The second president , Josei Toda, once scolded a youthful
priest Abe (now High Priest Nikken). Do you recall that?
Kudo: Yes. I did not witness it, but I have heard of the incident. In his
article, titled 'On the Occasion of Toda Sensei's Passing,' in the May 1958
issue of Dai-Nichiren, High Priest Nikken writes: "Perhaps because of my
negative karma, or maybe because of the 'baseness of the priest's nature,'
which Toda Sensei always rebuked and which I must have had in me, I
inadvertently built a wall in my heart around 1949 to ward him off. In those
days, my attitude did not fully comply with the spirit of Toda Sensei, who
was well versed in the 'round teachings' of the Lotus Sutra and very strict
about the mastery of the Way.' The 'baseness of the priest's nature' is well
said. it seems to me that Toda Sensei was long aware of Mr. Abe's innate
contempt of the laity and his biased opinion that the priesthood is superior
to lay believers.
Soka Shimpo: Recently, Nikken contended that President Toda told the 65th
high priest, Nichijun Shonin, at Myoden-ji temple in Okayama City in August
1956, "In the future, if the Soka Gakkai grows big and starts pressuring
Nichiren Shoshu, please order that it be disbanded." What is your reaction?
Kudo: How could President Toda have said such a thing? I don't believe it.
An important statement like that would have been officially recorded, but
there is no such record. If someone within Nichiren Shoshu knew about his
alleged statement by President Toda, it would have been brought out in the
late 1970s during the earlier dispute between Nichiren Shoshu and the Soka
Gakkai. It is indeed strange that the priesthood suddenly produced this
obviously fabricated story. One month after I became a priest in November
1956, I was chosen from among several acolytes to attend High Priest
Nichijun. Because of that opportunity, I was present at almost every meeting
he had with President Toda. However, I never heard these alleged words or
anything along similar lines. It's only natural that I never heard such a
remark between Nichijun Shonin and President Toda, because their
relationship was filled with mutual trust and profound compassion. Even
today, when I recall their relationship, I feel an upsurge of deep emotions
in my heart. They set a great example of harmony between priesthood and
laity.
Soka Shimpo: High Priest Nikken writes many more fabrications in an article
he recently contributed to a Japanese monthly magazine, Bungei Shunju.
Kudo: Essentially, the high priest does not understand the true nature of
the Soka Gakkai. I believe he has hardly read the Seikyo Simbun or any other
Gakkai publications. On top of that, his unconscionable staff keeps feeding
him anti-Gakkai information, which he uses out of context. Therefore, his
criticism often does not make sense. He degenerates Ikeda Sensei's guidance
without a proper grasp of the context in which it was given. He uses Ikeda
Sensei's own words to criticize him for criticism's sake. A typical example
is his criticism of Sensei's guidance at the 1964 Student Division Meeting.
High Priest Nikken contends that Ikeda Sensei belittled the significance of
the High Sanctuary of True Buddhism in that guidance. But when you read the
entirety of that guidance and consider that, in those days, the concept of a
high sanctuary was attacked by many people in society, you can see that
Ikeda Sensei was stressing the importance of the process of achieving
kosen-rufu. In this respect, the high priest's criticism of Ikeda Sensei is
pointless. Because the tone of his complaint sounded familiar to me, I did
some research and found exactly the same criticism in a book published in
1979 by a former leader who stopped practicing Buddhism (taiten) and is now
against the Soka Gakkai. The high priest will use anything to defame the
image of Ikeda Sensei. He denies everything that commends Sensei. He is so
deeply jealous of Sensei that we could say he is sick.
Soka Shimpo: The 'Demand for Apology' was sent by the priesthood to the
honorary president last March. Would you say it was the result of Nikken's
jealousy?
Kudo: The contents of that document are so flimsy. Even the way it came
about was pretty strange. If it was seeking an apology from a believer, then
the Administrative Office should have simply issued it under its own
recognizance. Instead, Nichiren Shoshu authorities forced this document upon
each parish and insisted that each priest sign it. Thus each parish sent the
same document to the honorary president. Consequently, executive priests
such as Executive Officer Hayase, General Administrator Fujimoto and other
officers of the Administrative Office signed their names only on the
document issued from the parish to which they belong. Obviously, the
Administrative Office is attempting to avoid responsibility for this matter
and, at the same time, check the attitude of each priest at every local
temple.
Soka Shimpo: You, Mr. Ohashi and others refused to endorse this 'Demand for
Apology,' didn't you?
Kudo: Ikeda Sensei has not done anything wrong in view of Buddhism, yet
Nichiren Shoshu, without any proof of wrongdoing, asserted he had committed
the great sin of attempting to destroy the Three Treasures. What an awful
document that 'Demand for Apology' was! Unconvinced of the validity of this
document, Mr. Ohashi and I visited the head temple on March 5 last year to
meet with the high priest in his reception room. We asked that he lose no
time in talking directly with Ikeda Sensei. However, for some reason, he
hated the idea of meeting or talking with him. He repeatedly insisted,
"Ikeda must apologize to me."
Soka Shimpo: Did he say anything else at that time?
Kudo: We asked him several questions for two-and-a-half hours. One question
was about Operation C. The high priest clearly said: "I know it. C stands
for C-U-T. Yes, it means to cut off the head of that bastard." He also said,
"But I did not write this scheme myself." It seemed to us that he did not
want us to look any deeper into that subject. Then he added, to defend
himself: "Ikeda criticizes Nichiren Shoshu too much at the Soka Gakkai
Headquarters building. Some priests have heard this." When I heard the high
priest say this, I immediately thought to myself, "Oh, no! Again?" During
the previous dispute between the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu in the late
1970s, many groundless stories and slander of Ikeda Sensei flew around in
Nichiren Shoshu. Because of this, anti-Gakkai sentiments were intentionally
created among the executive priests. This time, too, criticism and slander
of the Gakkai was aired within Nichiren Shoshu purely for the sake of
criticism and slander, not for any constructive purpose. I became convinced
of this when I heard that remark by the high priest. When I heard about the
contents of Operation C, I felt the past conspiracy of Masatomo Yamazaki had
abruptly reappeared after the passage of many years. As a matter of fact,
when you read Operation C, anyone who experienced the earlier dispute can
readily believe that Yamazaki injected his wicked wisdom into this document.
The high priest himself refuted Yamazaki 10 years ago, but now he has
accepted him. There is no doubt that the current issue is the result of a
dark scheme to control the Soka Gakkai. In other words, Nichiren Shoshu
intentionally caused the current dispute. Later in October, I requested that
the executive priests clarify the existence of Operation C at my parish
gathering. I belong to the second parish of Tokyo, to which all the bureau
chiefs of the Administrative Office belong. Our gathering takes on the tone
of a meeting of the Administrative Office. General Affairs Bureau Chief
Hayase, Study Department Chief Ohmura, overseas Bureau Chief Ohbayashi and
Public Relations Bureau Chief Akimoto all insisted that they had no prior
knowledge of Operation C. I was shocked at this answer. When I asked them if
they had ever seen the document of Operation C, they excused themselves by
saying, "We saw it in a weekly magazine." Then I asked, if the existence of
Operation C is revealed, how would they, as the authorities of the
Administrative Office, take responsibility. They neither committed
themselves to take responsibility nor denied it. They only repeated the "We
just don't know about it." I felt as if I were dealing with indiscreet kids.
Our discussion went nowhere.
Soka Shimpo: What other points did you bring up during your meeting with the
high priest on March 5?
Kudo: We also requested that he clarify his lecture on the Sho-Hondo, part
of which he later corrected. We put many old issues of Dai-Nichiren and
other reference materials on the table during our audience. We pointed out
that even before Ikeda Sensei's 1968 statement, Nittatsu Shonin and many
other priests clearly stated that the Sho-Hondo would be the High Sanctuary
of True Buddhism. The high priest, first groaning slightly and then tapping
his head, began to murmur. As a matter of fact, he always goes through these
motions when he knows he is wrong. However, he never admits when he is
wrong. As we expected, he just repeated excuses like, "I did not prepare for
my speech on that occasion," and "I did not plan to make that kind of
remark." He aimlessly repeated vague explanations, which did not address the
essence of the matter. I deeply felt he admitted in his heart that he had
made a mistake.
Soka Shimpo: Would you say that his character compels him to feel superior
to everyone else?
Kudo: During our audience with him, he consistently called Honorary
President Ikeda 'that bastard' or 'that clown." Also, at times, he
contemptuously called him 'Daisaku-kun' (kun, in this particular case, is a
word added to indicate superiority). When I called him Ikeda Sensei, the
high priest shouted angrily at me, "Why do you call him Ikeda Sensei? Just
call him Ikeda." He can keep his cool when we talk about the Gakkai, but
when our talk refers to the honorary president, his emotions pour out. When
I replied, "General Affairs Bureau Chief Hayase also uses such expressions
as Ikeda Sensei or Akiya Sensei," the high priest responded, "What you mean
by calling him Sensei and what the General Affairs Bureau chief means are
different." You can see how two-faced the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood is. For
many years, their attitude toward the Gakkai appeared all right on the
surface, but deep in their hearts they despised it.
Soka Shimpo: Is it true that the high priest's view of the honorary
president and the priesthood's distorted view of the Soka Gakkai constitute
the roots of the current issues?
Kudo: Yes. I think that, in the final analysis, the moment the high priest
believed Ikeda Sensei was wrong, his distortion in faith took place. The
Gakkai alleges that his warped notion of Ikeda Sensei caused him to
misinterpret the Gosho. Because the high priest reads the Gosho form this
biased viewpoint, he misuses all the golden words and phrases of the Gosho
to defame the honorary president and entrap the Soka Gakkai. The priesthood
uses the Gosho 'Shonin Gohenji' (Reply to Various People) to claim that it
is superior to laity, and it uses 'The Four Debts of Gratitude' to insist
that the high priest is the center of the Treasure of the Priest. It was
inevitable that the priesthood would have to justify their contention that
Ikeda Sensei represents evil. In addition, the high priest compared the
honorary president to Hakiri Sanenaga, a grave slanderer, and began to
praise Hakiri more than the honorary president. This is an ultimate example
of how he has altered historical facts, as well as the teachings of Nichiren
Shoshu.
Soka Shimpo: What about the high priest's distorted views of the Soka
Gakkai?
Kudo: In discussing this issue, first I would like to point out that
Buddhism stresses the importance of the 'time'; more specifically, what kind
of time we live in now. The important thing is to put the age in which we
now live into correct perspective. In an article titled "On the Occasion of
the 704th Anniversary of the Establishment of True Buddhism," published on
New Years Day, 1956, Nichijun Shonin writes, "It seems to me that future
historians will define the first 700 years of Nichiren Shoshu as an age in
which the priesthood protected the Law, after which it becomes an age of the
propagation of the Law for kosen-rufu (by the Soka Gakkai)." It was the Soka
Gakkai that stood up to realize the mandate of the Daishonin at a time when
conditions in post-war Japanese society were ripe for the promotion of
kosen-rufu. In fact, the Gakkai has successfully created a dynamic flow of
Buddhist propagation throughout Japan and the world. That is why the Gakkai
is called the organization of kosen-rufu that lives up to the Buddha's will
and mandate. Shallow people who do not understand the significance of the
Soka Gakkai in view of the history of Buddhism boast that the priesthood is
superior to the Gakkai just because of their role of authority. Such a
claim, whether it is made by the high priest or somebody else, cannot be
tolerated.
Soka Shimpo: After all, the current priesthood does not understand Buddhism
itself.
Kudo: The Daishonin's Buddhism cannot exist apart from the goals of
kosen-rufu and the people's happiness. The Soka Gakkai has been actualizing
these objectives. Priests must be aware of this. However, the priesthood,
disregarding this fact, stubbornly tries to protect its conventional
traditions. It is only natural that those people who are attached only to
the past and do not look either at the present or to the future will become
obstacles in the progress of kosen-rufu. It stands to reason that the Soka
Gakkai, which aims towards kosen-rufu and gazes at the future and the world,
contends that the current priesthood performs only a devilish function.
Also, it can be said, as long as it functions negatively for kosen-rufu, the
current Nichiren Shoshu is useless for Buddhism. In short, it is a
misinterpretation for the priesthood to say that the Gakkai's organization
was built in post-war time based upon the 700-year-old tradition of Nichiren
Shoshu.
In general, the traditions that the priesthood emphasizes are the remains of
formalities that formed as a result of its deviation from the Daishonin's
Buddhism. To regard such traditions as Buddhism itself is an illusion and is
beneficial only to the priesthood. The Gakkai has not been swayed by such
falsehood. Returning to the days of Nichiren Daishonin in terms of faith
under the excellent leadership of the successive presidents of the Soka
Gakkai, the Gakkai has established pure faith, making the Gohonzon the
foundation and basing ourselves on the Gosho. The Nichiren Shoshu priesthood
accepted the Shinto talisman during the war allegedly to protect the sect
for the sake of the Law. Without being influenced by the priesthood's
compromise with the military government, the Soka Gakkai proceeded to live
up to the Daishonin's spirit and persisted in its resolute belief that it
would never condone slanderous actions. The history of the Soka Gakkai is
ready to construct the fortress of humanism and happiness on the solid
foundation that has been built on Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. Though
incapable, I am determined to fight wholeheartedly from now on against those
evil priests of the current Nichiren Shoshu who are jealous of, despise, and
intend to destroy the Gakkai's castle of happiness.
Michael Cody
2005-12-31 11:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Yelps wrote:

(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<

Enough said.

Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
--
Cody

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
Kurt
2005-12-31 17:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yelps
(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<
Enough said.
Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
Yes, the SGI sent Kudo and Wendy Clark all over the US to make many
unannounced visits to Hokkeko member's homes.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Michael O
2005-12-31 19:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt
Post by Yelps
(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<
Enough said.
Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
Yes, the SGI sent Kudo and Wendy Clark all over the US to make many
unannounced visits to Hokkeko member's homes.
If my memory serves me well, this Ikeda-ite suck-up Kudo
caused trouble in Austria, too.
Michael
Kurt
2005-12-31 22:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O
Post by Kurt
Post by Yelps
(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<
Enough said.
Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
Yes, the SGI sent Kudo and Wendy Clark all over the US to make many
unannounced visits to Hokkeko member's homes.
If my memory serves me well, this Ikeda-ite suck-up Kudo
caused trouble in Austria, too.
Michael
They flew him everywhere.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Yelps
2006-01-01 09:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O
Post by Kurt
Post by Yelps
(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<
Enough said.
Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
Yes, the SGI sent Kudo and Wendy Clark all over the US to make many
unannounced visits to Hokkeko member's homes.
If my memory serves me well, this Ikeda-ite suck-up Kudo
caused trouble in Austria, too.
Michael
Sorry but Shakubuku can be characterized as "trouble" by people that forgot
what it is really all about.

Destroying the High Sanctuary, excomminicating millions of sincere people,
creating false stories to cover up what is really happening and altering
Nikko Shonin's warning articles is "trouble."


dc
Cody
2006-01-01 10:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Yelps
Jan 1, 10:30 am show options
Newsgroups: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
From: "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 01:30:57 -0800
Local: Sun, Jan 1 2006 10:30 am
Subject: Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

"Michael O" <***@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:***@uni-berlin.de...

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Post by Michael O
Post by Kurt
Post by Yelps
(Editor's Note: Throughout this interview,
Mr. Kudo uses the Japanese term Sensei when referring to SGI President
Ikeda, signifying his deep respect.) <<
Enough said.
Paul Wersant would be proud of you, David.
Yes, the SGI sent Kudo and Wendy Clark all over the US to make many
unannounced visits to Hokkeko member's homes.
If my memory serves me well, this Ikeda-ite suck-up Kudo
caused trouble in Austria, too.
Michael
Sorry but Shakubuku can be characterized as "trouble" by people that
forgot
what it is really all about. <<

Lying and supporting a cult is not "shakubuku" by a long shot.
Post by Michael O
Destroying the High Sanctuary, <
The Sho Hondo was an eye sore dedicated to your cult leader. It needed
to be destroyed.
Post by Michael O
excomminicating millions of sincere people, <
Only two people were excommunicated. The rest, like you, excommuncated
themselves.
Post by Michael O
creating false stories to cover up what is really happening and altering
Nikko Shonin's warning articles is "trouble."

dc <

You've become a sad person, David.

Cody
Reginald Carpenter
2006-01-02 08:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Re: An Example of an SGI member who is brainwashed to hate

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 9:18pm (CST-2) From: ***@yahoo.com
(Chris)

Responding to:
"Michael Cody" <***@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message news:TADpf.137255$***@news.ono.com...
Reginald Carpenter wrote:
Good day, everyone! Re. "Sundevil" posting on 12/19/05, 9:11pm CST+1.
******************************************************
Rev. Abe's excommunication of Mr. Ikeda, and then the Sokagakkai, seemed
to have a lot more to do with their attitude to him, than with the
myriads of doctrinal distortions that preceded his term and continued,
throughout it. (That, and the Ode to Joy.) As an outside observer, it
appeared to me that Soka Gakkai was free to do and expound whatever they
wanted, so long as they paid lip service to Rev. Abe. It was only when
they began to openly criticize and belittle him that the trouble began.
**********************************************
I think any honest observer not in deep denial would agree with this
summary.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: "Point of Order" -- RC (me) did NOT actually write "this
summary." I only wrote the above first two (2) sentences. The rest was
written by "Sundevil" in the last paragraph of his/ her posting that I
referred to. But, I also agreed with that. WorldPeace! } : < { 0


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*
d***@netscape.net
2005-12-20 03:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@hawaii.rr.com
So Cody I must ask..How is what this person said any different than
what you and Derek have said about Pres. Ikeda and that the SGI will
crumble after Pres. Ikeda passes away or retires??? You guys never
change. You can always dish it out but cant take it. Now that HP
Nikken is retired I sincerely hope that he takes a long hard look at
the causes he has made.
"We conduct the third prayer to express our deepest appreciation to
Nichiren Daishonin, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law. In this
third silent prayer, we also offer our gratitude to Nikko Shonin, the
second High Priest and the founder of Taisekiji. Further, we offer our
appreciation to the third High Priest, Nichimoku Shonin, and all the
successive High Priests of Nichiren Shoshu, each of whom transmitted
the Heritage of the Law to the next. Presently, as you know, the 67th
high priest, Nikken Shonin has inherited the Law. Now he is the master
of true Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol. 1, p. 107

"Any person who is not obedient to the High Priest, whatever the reason
may be, is no longer a Priest or lay member of Nichiren Shoshu. This is
because there is no error more fundamental than this." Daisaku Ikeda,
November 24, 1981, predicting his excommunication a decade later

Derek Juhl
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