attempt to cover up the alteration

[Yelps]

A ridiculous attempt to cover up the alteration by Michael Bowman some years
ago:

"Toki no (of the time) kanzu (head priest) nari (become) to iedomo
(although) [Though he becomes the head priest of the time] Buppo
(Buddhism) no soui shite (differs from) kogi (selfish doctrine) wo
kamaeba (sets forth) [should someone set forth a selfish doctrine which
differs from Buddhism] kore (this person) wo yuu bekarazaru koto (must
not be used).

Someone out there may very well argue that "kore" is usually rendered
as simply "this," but my Iwanami published "Kogo Jiten" ("Dictionary of
Ancient Language") renders "kore" as, among other things, "this
person."

EITHER INTERPRETATION REFERS TO THE SUBJECT OF THE SENTENCE NOT SOME
IMAGINARY OTHER PERSON THAT IS NEVER MENTIONED.

In other words, Though he be the Head Priest of the time, he is not to
use someone who sets forth a selfish doctrine which differs from
Buddhism."<<<<<<<<<<<<


"Kore"---:whether "this" or "this person" refers to the "Head Priest of the
time."...and no other 'THIS person"

JUST AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRANSLATED AND USED BY BOTH NST AND SGI ALL
ALONG- in publications and sermons---IN FACT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED AS A
WAY TO SHOW THAT EVEN A HIGH PRIEST CAN BE DEPOSED IF NECESSARY AND THIS WAS
DONE A NUMBER OF TIMES BY TAISEKIJI IN THE PAST WHEN VARIOUS HIGH PRIESTS
WERE FOUND TO BE CORRUPT----THIS WARNING ARTICLE WAS QUOTED AT THAT TIME AS
THE JUSTIFICATION FOR DEPOSING THAT PARTICULAR HIGH PRIEST.

dc

[Juanjo]

Post by Yelps
A ridiculous attempt to cover up the alteration by Michael Bowman some years
"Toki no (of the time) kanzu (head priest) nari (become) to iedomo
(although) [Though he becomes the head priest of the time] Buppo
(Buddhism) no soui shite (differs from) kogi (selfish doctrine) wo
kamaeba (sets forth) [should someone set forth a selfish doctrine which
differs from Buddhism] kore (this person) wo yuu bekarazaru koto (must
not be used).
Someone out there may very well argue that "kore" is usually rendered
as simply "this," but my Iwanami published "Kogo Jiten" ("Dictionary of
Ancient Language") renders "kore" as, among other things, "this
person."

All issues about who is altering what texts aside, the mere idea that Dave
Cole who barely speaks English, thinks that with the aid of a dictionary, he
can decipher the true meaning of any Japanese text, especially from the
1200's or 1300's is so totally absurd and conceited that it defies
description. Talk about a pinhead!

[op]

dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of the
priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could have taken
care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year yet.
I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest? Hopefully, lots of
good things.
op

Post by Yelps
A ridiculous attempt to cover up the alteration by Michael Bowman some years
"Toki no (of the time) kanzu (head priest) nari (become) to iedomo
(although) [Though he becomes the head priest of the time] Buppo
(Buddhism) no soui shite (differs from) kogi (selfish doctrine) wo
kamaeba (sets forth) [should someone set forth a selfish doctrine which
differs from Buddhism] kore (this person) wo yuu bekarazaru koto (must
not be used).
Someone out there may very well argue that "kore" is usually rendered
as simply "this," but my Iwanami published "Kogo Jiten" ("Dictionary of
Ancient Language") renders "kore" as, among other things, "this
person."
EITHER INTERPRETATION REFERS TO THE SUBJECT OF THE SENTENCE NOT SOME
IMAGINARY OTHER PERSON THAT IS NEVER MENTIONED.
In other words, Though he be the Head Priest of the time, he is not to
use someone who sets forth a selfish doctrine which differs from
Buddhism."<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Kore"---:whether "this" or "this person" refers to the "Head Priest of the
time."...and no other 'THIS person"
JUST AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRANSLATED AND USED BY BOTH NST AND SGI ALL
ALONG- in publications and sermons---IN FACT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED AS A
WAY TO SHOW THAT EVEN A HIGH PRIEST CAN BE DEPOSED IF NECESSARY AND THIS WAS
DONE A NUMBER OF TIMES BY TAISEKIJI IN THE PAST WHEN VARIOUS HIGH PRIESTS
WERE FOUND TO BE CORRUPT----THIS WARNING ARTICLE WAS QUOTED AT THAT TIME AS
THE JUSTIFICATION FOR DEPOSING THAT PARTICULAR HIGH PRIEST.
dc

[Shimatani]

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.

It's the same as people in the same gang not getting rid of their
pumpster, no matter what he does.
However Nikken did get rid of the other gang, or the gang got rid of
him however you look at it.

[Yelps]

Post by Shimatani

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.

It's the same as people in the same gang not getting rid of their
pumpster, no matter what he does.
However Nikken did get rid of the other gang, or the gang got rid of
him however you look at it.

When Nikken stole the Priesthood over 200 priests left or were
excommunicated in various factions. In more recent times after the schism,
more then 100 Priest's protested, refusing to chant Daimoku when Nikken was
appearing in court when they were ordered to do so. Acolytes quit because
of Nikken's Physical abuse and ill treatment and other priest are biding
their time cowardly afraid of losing their jobs. Three overlapping
factions, all seeking to win and of course there are the public reform
priests which are more then 35. The temples income is cut by 90%, how many
do you think they need now? They just demand more from far less people.
It's sickening.

dc

[`Cody`]

Post by Yelps

Post by Shimatani

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.

It's the same as people in the same gang not getting rid of their
pumpster, no matter what he does.
However Nikken did get rid of the other gang, or the gang got rid of
him however you look at it.

When Nikken stole the Priesthood over 200 priests left or were
excommunicated in various factions. In more recent times after the schism,
more then 100 Priest's protested, refusing to chant Daimoku when Nikken was
appearing in court when they were ordered to do so. Acolytes quit because
of Nikken's Physical abuse and ill treatment and other priest are biding
their time cowardly afraid of losing their jobs. Three overlapping
factions, all seeking to win and of course there are the public reform
priests which are more then 35. The temples income is cut by 90%, how many
do you think they need now? They just demand more from far less people.
It's sickening.
dc

What's sickening is you posting these lies just like Wersant and the
Rubys used to do.

What's telling is that you're a coward and when anyone refutes you, you
insult them and then scurry off behind the skirts of a plonk.

Cody

[Yelps]

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of the
priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could have taken
care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year yet.
I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest? Hopefully, lots
of good things.

No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

dc

Post by op
op

Post by Yelps
A ridiculous attempt to cover up the alteration by Michael Bowman some years
"Toki no (of the time) kanzu (head priest) nari (become) to iedomo
(although) [Though he becomes the head priest of the time] Buppo
(Buddhism) no soui shite (differs from) kogi (selfish doctrine) wo
kamaeba (sets forth) [should someone set forth a selfish doctrine which
differs from Buddhism] kore (this person) wo yuu bekarazaru koto (must
not be used).
Someone out there may very well argue that "kore" is usually rendered
as simply "this," but my Iwanami published "Kogo Jiten" ("Dictionary of
Ancient Language") renders "kore" as, among other things, "this
person."
EITHER INTERPRETATION REFERS TO THE SUBJECT OF THE SENTENCE NOT SOME
IMAGINARY OTHER PERSON THAT IS NEVER MENTIONED.
In other words, Though he be the Head Priest of the time, he is not to
use someone who sets forth a selfish doctrine which differs from
Buddhism."<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Kore"---:whether "this" or "this person" refers to the "Head Priest of the
time."...and no other 'THIS person"
JUST AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRANSLATED AND USED BY BOTH NST AND SGI ALL
ALONG- in publications and sermons---IN FACT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED AS A
WAY TO SHOW THAT EVEN A HIGH PRIEST CAN BE DEPOSED IF NECESSARY AND THIS WAS
DONE A NUMBER OF TIMES BY TAISEKIJI IN THE PAST WHEN VARIOUS HIGH PRIESTS
WERE FOUND TO BE CORRUPT----THIS WARNING ARTICLE WAS QUOTED AT THAT TIME AS
THE JUSTIFICATION FOR DEPOSING THAT PARTICULAR HIGH PRIEST.
dc

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of the
priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could have taken
care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year
yet. I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest? Hopefully,
lots of good things.

No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.
dc

dc, I realize that the powers that be pay their salaries, but all of the NST
priests have had an open offer from the SGI to join the SGI as priests from
the time of the split and have their salaries paid by SGI. This is not just
gossip - I heard it from Mrs. Hachiya directly - I asked her several years
ago. So, I am just saying that they must view NST as where they wish to be?
Any of them could leave now and join SGI as a reform priest and have a good
salary, so I'm saying it isn't that, based on what I heard from what I
consider a reliable source. op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of
the priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could have
taken care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year
yet. I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest?
Hopefully, lots of good things.

No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.
dc

dc, I realize that the powers that be pay their salaries, but all of the
NST priests have had an open offer from the SGI to join the SGI as priests
from the time of the split and have their salaries paid by SGI. This is
not just gossip - I heard it from Mrs. Hachiya directly - I asked her
several years ago. So, I am just saying that they must view NST as where
they wish to be?
Any of them could leave now and join SGI as a reform priest and have a
good salary, so I'm saying it isn't that, based on what I heard from what
I consider a reliable source. op

There is no salaries for the reform priests Op, except those who were able
to keep their temple, and that is paid by donations to the temples, not by
the Gakkai. A number of priests in Japan won court cases and have been
able to keep their temples, and Nikken couldn't touch them, but are part of
the "Reform Priest: groups.

From my understanding, there are a couple temples in Ghana and Singapore,
supported by the Gakkai.

The reform Priests that tour around speaking are not being paid by the
Gakkai for those efforts. Years back their was Emyo Propaganda that the
Gakkai was offering large sums for Priest to quit, but that was all just a
lie. Talk to them yourself.


dc

[d***@netscape.net]

Post by Yelps
The reform Priests that tour around speaking are not being paid by the
Gakkai for those efforts.

SGI claims that temples and priests are not necessary, and president
Daisaku Ikeda has stated that SGI members themselves are priests.
However, SGI staffs its "temples" with these so-called "reform" priests
and uses them to lend an air of legitimacy to the group. It is mass,
utter confusion, just as Ikeda predicted:

"The fundamental principle of Nichiren Shoshu is the Heritage of the
Law transmitted to a sole person. It is, indeed, the correct objective
for both Priesthood and laity to follow the High Priest who has
received this Heritage of the Law. If we err on this single point,
everything will crumble." Daisaku Ikeda, Jan. 24, 1982, Soka Univ.
gymnasium: "Kofu to Jinsei Wo Kataru," vol. 3, p. 32

Derek Juhl

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel that
Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him, regardless of
whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of
the priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could have
taken care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year
yet. I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest?
Hopefully, lots of good things.

No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most
of the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their
salaries. It's ugly.
dc

dc, I realize that the powers that be pay their salaries, but all of the
NST priests have had an open offer from the SGI to join the SGI as
priests from the time of the split and have their salaries paid by SGI.
This is not just gossip - I heard it from Mrs. Hachiya directly - I asked
her several years ago. So, I am just saying that they must view NST as
where they wish to be?
Any of them could leave now and join SGI as a reform priest and have a
good salary, so I'm saying it isn't that, based on what I heard from what
I consider a reliable source. op

There is no salaries for the reform priests Op, except those who were able
to keep their temple, and that is paid by donations to the temples, not by
the Gakkai. A number of priests in Japan won court cases and have been
able to keep their temples, and Nikken couldn't touch them, but are part
of the "Reform Priest: groups.
From my understanding, there are a couple temples in Ghana and Singapore,
supported by the Gakkai.
The reform Priests that tour around speaking are not being paid by the
Gakkai for those efforts. Years back their was Emyo Propaganda that the
Gakkai was offering large sums for Priest to quit, but that was all just
a lie. Talk to them yourself.
dc

Dc, I am just going by what Mrs. Hachiya (you have known her for years from
Japan - ex SGI leader of all the SGI YWD) said. That the gakkai would give
the priests jobs if they wanted to come back to the Gakkai. She didn't
specify salaries, and I didn't ask - didn't think to. But, yes, she said
that. That is the truth. That was several years before you talked with the
reform priests. So, maybe the ones you talked with aren't being paid by the
Gakkai or maybe they are, but it was my clear understanding that the offer
of payment ( it didn't appear to be huge sums of money - just something
equivalent to what they would make with NST) was a standing offer from the
Gakkai. Now that's what I heard from a top Gakkai leader. I Promise I am
not making this up and that I didn't misunderstand her. It was kind of a
long conversation I was having with her about the priesthood - one on one.
I really do feel confident that under the circumstances within which the
conversation occurred that she had no reason to bullshit me on that issue.
It was during a time period when I was campaigning with her to do home
visitations at the homes of temple members to get them to come back to the
gakkai. She stated it in a sincere manner. You heard something different
from a reform priest years later. Hmmmm...
Happy 4th of July by the way.
op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op
dc, apparently the majority of the existing priesthood didn't feel
that Nikken was corrupt or they would have gotten rid of him,
regardless of whether or not he "changed" the article in question.
So, they agreed to keep him. It seems clear that if the majority of
the priesthood thought that the High Priest was horrid, they could
have taken care of that.
That's the obvious conclusion as I see it.
Now, that new high priest hasn't even been in his position for a year
yet. I wonder what he'll do during his tenure as high priest?
Hopefully, lots of good things.

No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most
of the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their
salaries. It's ugly.
dc

dc, I realize that the powers that be pay their salaries, but all of the
NST priests have had an open offer from the SGI to join the SGI as
priests from the time of the split and have their salaries paid by SGI.
This is not just gossip - I heard it from Mrs. Hachiya directly - I
asked her several years ago. So, I am just saying that they must view
NST as where they wish to be?
Any of them could leave now and join SGI as a reform priest and have a
good salary, so I'm saying it isn't that, based on what I heard from
what I consider a reliable source. op

There is no salaries for the reform priests Op, except those who were
able to keep their temple, and that is paid by donations to the temples,
not by the Gakkai. A number of priests in Japan won court cases and
have been able to keep their temples, and Nikken couldn't touch them, but
are part of the "Reform Priest: groups.
From my understanding, there are a couple temples in Ghana and Singapore,
supported by the Gakkai.
The reform Priests that tour around speaking are not being paid by the
Gakkai for those efforts. Years back their was Emyo Propaganda that the
Gakkai was offering large sums for Priest to quit, but that was all just
a lie. Talk to them yourself.
dc

Dc, I am just going by what Mrs. Hachiya (you have known her for years
from Japan - ex SGI leader of all the SGI YWD) said. That the gakkai
would give the priests jobs if they wanted to come back to the Gakkai.
She didn't specify salaries, and I didn't ask - didn't think to. But,
yes, she said that. That is the truth. That was several years before you
talked with the reform priests. So, maybe the ones you talked with aren't
being paid by the Gakkai or maybe they are, but it was my clear
understanding that the offer of payment ( it didn't appear to be huge sums
of money - just something equivalent to what they would make with NST) was
a standing offer from the Gakkai. Now that's what I heard from a top
Gakkai leader. I Promise I am not making this up and that I didn't
misunderstand her. It was kind of a long conversation I was having with
her about the priesthood - one on one. I really do feel confident that
under the circumstances within which the conversation occurred that she
had no reason to bullshit me on that issue. It was during a time period
when I was campaigning with her to do home visitations at the homes of
temple members to get them to come back to the gakkai. She stated it in a
sincere manner. You heard something different from a reform priest years
later. Hmmmm...
Happy 4th of July by the way.
op<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I don't doubt that Mrs. Hachiya said that, and I'm sure that at first there
was alot of speculation as to what to do with the Reform Priests, But Mrs.
Hachiya was repeating hearsay. A single person can have more the one
conflicting idea that they can debate within their own mind for years before
a decision is made, how much more will many people have different ideas.

You know how hearsay spreads. It will be a major decision by the Gakkai,
to decide whether it will be a good thing to officially have a priesthood
and for me I am glad they have waited and not jumped into it feet first.
personally i would wait for the ax to fall on the Nikkenism and try to
straighten out Nichiren Shoshu, but time will tell how that will go.

dc

[::Cody::]

Yelps wrote:
It will be a major decision by the Gakkai,

Post by Yelps
to decide whether it will be a good thing to officially have a priesthood
and for me I am glad they have waited and not jumped into it feet first.
personally i would wait for the ax to fall on the Nikkenism and try to
straighten out Nichiren Shoshu, but time will tell how that will go.
dc

Sure will and the SGI Ikeda Cult's time to crumble is right around the
corner. In fact, if one looks at the cult objectively, it started
crumbling as soon as Ikeda took over. It's painful to watch "dc" slip
down the slope into a rabid, insane hatred for True Buddhism. A True
Icchantika is what David is.

Cody

[Juanjo]

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

[Mark P.]

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.



Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[op]

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that they
are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra credit
points for this one:). op

Post by Mark P.
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[Juanjo]

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the other
Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are owned by
the head priest's family and are passed down through that family. Typically
this is father to son although there are some instances where if there is no
son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations going back to
the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a salary out of the
temple's earnings from donations for services etc but the temples can be
real money makers for the family which owns it. So while Taiseki-ji may pay
the salaries for its priests at its branch temples which it owns outright,
it would not do so for the others which are part of the NST. Since Dave
doesn't really have a clue as to how things operate in Japan he makes silly
statements like the above.

As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become priests
and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their incomes is an
obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the past and the reason
they were able to do so is that they were able to take their temples and
their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at Taiseki-ji seems to be
pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they were not then Nikken would
have been quietly retired due to poor health long ago when he first went
head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has offered financial incentives to
priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but has had very little success other
than those who were initially Soka Gakkai members.

[op]

Post by Juanjo

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the
other Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are
owned by the head priest's family and are passed down through that family.
Typically this is father to son although there are some instances where if
there is no son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations
going back to the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a
salary out of the temple's earnings from donations for services etc but
the temples can be real money makers for the family which owns it. So
while Taiseki-ji may pay the salaries for its priests at its branch
temples which it owns outright, it would not do so for the others which
are part of the NST. Since Dave doesn't really have a clue as to how
things operate in Japan he makes silly statements like the above.
As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become
priests and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their
incomes is an obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the
past and the reason they were able to do so is that they were able to take
their temples and their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at
Taiseki-ji seems to be pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they
were not then Nikken would have been quietly retired due to poor health
long ago when he first went head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has
offered financial incentives to priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but
has had very little success other than those who were initially Soka
Gakkai members.

I have never heard of any priests prior to the split being Soka Gakkai
"members." I know that some of the priests, such as Rev. Kudo were Gakkai
"supporters" prior to and after the split. He is also one of the reform
priests. As to the rest of the information you have posted about the
temples and priests regarding their ownership or NST's ownership of the
various temples, it is interesting, and I've never heard it before. op>

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Juanjo

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the
other Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are
owned by the head priest's family and are passed down through that family.
Typically this is father to son although there are some instances where if
there is no son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations
going back to the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a
salary out of the temple's earnings from donations for services etc but
the temples can be real money makers for the family which owns it. So
while Taiseki-ji may pay the salaries for its priests at its branch
temples which it owns outright, it would not do so for the others which
are part of the NST. Since Dave doesn't really have a clue as to how
things operate in Japan he makes silly statements like the above.
As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become
priests and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their
incomes is an obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the
past and the reason they were able to do so is that they were able to take
their temples and their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at
Taiseki-ji seems to be pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they
were not then Nikken would have been quietly retired due to poor health
long ago when he first went head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has
offered financial incentives to priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but
has had very little success other than those who were initially Soka
Gakkai members.

I have never heard of any priests prior to the split being Soka Gakkai
"members." I know that some of the priests, such as Rev. Kudo were Gakkai
"supporters" prior to and after the split. He is also one of the reform
priests. As to the rest of the information you have posted about the
temples and priests regarding their ownership or NST's ownership of the
various temples, it is interesting, and I've never heard it before. op>

Ikeda encouraged SGI to participate in the priesthood. The bulk of the
35 priests that left to join the SGI-supported domei movement had been
SGI and/or come from SGI families before joining the priesthood.

[Kurt]

Post by Juanjo

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the other
Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are owned by
the head priest's family and are passed down through that family. Typically
this is father to son although there are some instances where if there is no
son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations going back to
the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a salary out of the
temple's earnings from donations for services etc but the temples can be
real money makers for the family which owns it. So while Taiseki-ji may pay
the salaries for its priests at its branch temples which it owns outright,
it would not do so for the others which are part of the NST. Since Dave
doesn't really have a clue as to how things operate in Japan he makes silly
statements like the above.
As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become priests
and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their incomes is an
obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the past and the reason
they were able to do so is that they were able to take their temples and
their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at Taiseki-ji seems to be
pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they were not then Nikken would
have been quietly retired due to poor health long ago when he first went
head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has offered financial incentives to
priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but has had very little success other
than those who were initially Soka Gakkai members.

And let's not forget that out of 1000+ priests at the time (I think
there are close to 2000 now), only less than 35 ended up leaving over
time.
90% of those that left were SGI that Ikeda encouraged to join the
priesthood years before.

Jon is pretty correct with his views.

[Juanjo]

Post by Kurt

Post by Juanjo

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized.
most
of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be
rolling
on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit
points
to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the other
Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are owned by
the head priest's family and are passed down through that family.
Typically
this is father to son although there are some instances where if there is no
son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations going back to
the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a salary out of the
temple's earnings from donations for services etc but the temples can be
real money makers for the family which owns it. So while Taiseki-ji may pay
the salaries for its priests at its branch temples which it owns outright,
it would not do so for the others which are part of the NST. Since Dave
doesn't really have a clue as to how things operate in Japan he makes silly
statements like the above.
As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become priests
and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their incomes is an
obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the past and the reason
they were able to do so is that they were able to take their temples and
their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at Taiseki-ji seems to be
pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they were not then Nikken would
have been quietly retired due to poor health long ago when he first went
head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has offered financial incentives to
priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but has had very little success other
than those who were initially Soka Gakkai members.

And let's not forget that out of 1000+ priests at the time (I think
there are close to 2000 now), only less than 35 ended up leaving over
time.
90% of those that left were SGI that Ikeda encouraged to join the
priesthood years before.
Jon is pretty correct with his views.

Geez, there for a minute I was all excited. I thought you wrote pretty and
correct. ;-)

[robek]

Post by Juanjo
Actually the main point is that in Japan the NST temples like all the other
Buddhist temples are generally not owned by the sect but rather are owned by
the head priest's family and are passed down through that family. Typically
this is father to son although there are some instances where if there is no
son it goes to a daughter. This has been true for generations going back to
the Tokugawa shogunate. The associate priests are paid a salary out of the
temple's earnings from donations for services etc but the temples can be
real money makers for the family which owns it. So while Taiseki-ji may pay
the salaries for its priests at its branch temples which it owns outright,
it would not do so for the others which are part of the NST. Since Dave
doesn't really have a clue as to how things operate in Japan he makes silly
statements like the above.
As for the "factionalized" Taiseki-ji, that is pure speculation on Dave's
part. There have been break offs from Taiseki-ji in the past. Of course
the departure of the Soka Gakkai members who "volunteered" to become priests
and who are financially dependent on the Soka Gakkai for their incomes is an
obvious example. Other factions have pulled away in the past and the reason
they were able to do so is that they were able to take their temples and
their incomes with them. The actual priesthood at Taiseki-ji seems to be
pretty solidly against the Soka Gakkai. If they were not then Nikken would
have been quietly retired due to poor health long ago when he first went
head to head with Ikeda. Also Ikeda has offered financial incentives to
priests to break away from Taiseki-ji but has had very little success other
than those who were initially Soka Gakkai members.

There are roughly 200,000 Nichiren Shoshu Members in Japan. There can
not be very many non-branch temples. The structure is unlike Nichiren
Shu. .

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

When I saw this I assumed I must have made a funny spelling error so I went
onto google to see what plonked Petry had to say. Sorry no error, spelling
or otherwise.

You guys are way off as usual. If you don't realize by now that Taisekiji
was broken into 3 major divisions since, the late 1970, then you are not
paying attention. The Shoshinkai mess was a disaster and it just bled into
the Nikken Mess over a period of 25 years. Furthermore the factionalism in
Japan is and always has been horrific and twisted, creating hidden sects
within sects and plots within plots and intrigues that make the European
courts of the middle ages look mild.

To pretend the Japanese are a "pretty unifed race," just because they were
forced to be sheeplike by centuries of God-Emperors and Murderous Feudal
Lords is insane. The Feudal Lords never for a moment united, and the
religious leaders also were in a constant state of splitting and dividing,
strife at the highest level of insanity, each competing for an Imperial Pat
on the back and rectal insertion and to avoid the Sword Blade on the neck.

In Japan, throughout their history, the assumption is that your co-leader or
brother, co-feudal lord are going to stab you in the back when you aren't
looking and when they get their chance, so they can get the prize. The
structured competition is built in, each person snared in the corporate
pyramid, with aspirations to get the "I did my best for the Emperor and for
my CLAN" statuette, "so now my ancestors won't haunt me anymore and I can
rest in peace and not be disgraced."

In the meantime women were complelty subjugated and had to create their own
hidden culture. The masses of common people in Japan were followers
because if they didn't follow, their head was sliced off and in terms of
this current topic, the cowardly priests who won't speak out because they
will lose their jobs and their families will be out in the street and they
will be digraced.

Since democracy appeared in Japan, after they had to have nuclear, fucking
bombs dropped on their asses, to shut them up, with their insane God
Emperor Bullshit which continued up until 60 years ago this summer!----- now
more people speak out and their factionalization become less hidden and more
open, but its all STILL psychologically tied into centuries of habitual
subjugation and heretical ideation of the most demented types.

To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.

dc

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized. most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

When I saw this I assumed I must have made a funny spelling error so I
went onto google to see what plonked Petry had to say. Sorry no error,
spelling or otherwise.
You guys are way off as usual. If you don't realize by now that Taisekiji
was broken into 3 major divisions since, the late 1970, then you are not
paying attention. The Shoshinkai mess was a disaster and it just bled
into the Nikken Mess over a period of 25 years. Furthermore the
factionalism in Japan is and always has been horrific and twisted,
creating hidden sects within sects and plots within plots and intrigues
that make the European courts of the middle ages look mild.
To pretend the Japanese are a "pretty unifed race," just because they
were forced to be sheeplike by centuries of God-Emperors and Murderous
Feudal Lords is insane. The Feudal Lords never for a moment united, and
the religious leaders also were in a constant state of splitting and
dividing, strife at the highest level of insanity, each competing for an
Imperial Pat on the back and rectal insertion and to avoid the Sword Blade
on the neck.
In Japan, throughout their history, the assumption is that your co-leader
or brother, co-feudal lord are going to stab you in the back when you
aren't looking and when they get their chance, so they can get the prize.
The structured competition is built in, each person snared in the
corporate pyramid, with aspirations to get the "I did my best for the
Emperor and for my CLAN" statuette, "so now my ancestors won't haunt me
anymore and I can rest in peace and not be disgraced."
In the meantime women were complelty subjugated and had to create their
own hidden culture. The masses of common people in Japan were followers
because if they didn't follow, their head was sliced off and in terms of
this current topic, the cowardly priests who won't speak out because they
will lose their jobs and their families will be out in the street and they
will be digraced.
Since democracy appeared in Japan, after they had to have nuclear,
fucking bombs dropped on their asses, to shut them up, with their insane
God Emperor Bullshit which continued up until 60 years ago this
summer!----- now more people speak out and their factionalization become
less hidden and more open, but its all STILL psychologically tied into
centuries of habitual subjugation and heretical ideation of the most
demented types.
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

It was just a joke, dc - severely factionalized:). As in - Facts that are
severe. It struck me as being funny in context. Honestly, though, I don't
really think (maybe I'm wrong) that Mark P. meant unified in its
complementary term, maybe he did.
I think of Japanese conformity as something more like strangely (to most of
us) their own brand of oddness that puts the group before the individual and
so on...
This, including the part of the Japanese culture that you speak of above
isn't one of its more pleasant parts, and certainly isn't confined to NST.
I don't know what NST has done since the split, but I do know that SGI has
maintained its Japanese style of bizarre conformity using the typical
Japanese cultural way of doing so. This Japanese style works for some; not
me though. I agree that the style itself does have a reptilian flavor.
Ugh. op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Mark P.

Post by Juanjo

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized.
most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

A portion of this statement is so obviously false to anyone who understands
the way things operate in Japan that a Japanese person would be rolling on
the floor laughing madly at the gaijin who made. Ten extra credit points to
the person who correctly states which it is and why is it completely absurd
and obviously false.

It's got to be the part about them being highly factionalized,
because the Japanese people are a nation of followers and don't like
others rocking the boat. In the Japanese society as a whole Nichiren
Buddhists are viewed as trouble makers because they don't stand behind
the Emporer. There are of course occasions when a group splinters off,
but as a whole, the Japanese are a pretty unified race.
Mark Porter

Heh. That is pretty funny! I always read dc's posts for content, not
spelling, but that was a funny error.
Funny dc, in that you accuse NST of lying propaganda, and then say that
they are Severely Factionalized. You've gotta give Jon and Mark extra
credit points for this one:). op

When I saw this I assumed I must have made a funny spelling error so I
went onto google to see what plonked Petry had to say. Sorry no error,
spelling or otherwise.
You guys are way off as usual. If you don't realize by now that
Taisekiji was broken into 3 major divisions since, the late 1970, then
you are not paying attention. The Shoshinkai mess was a disaster and it
just bled into the Nikken Mess over a period of 25 years. Furthermore
the factionalism in Japan is and always has been horrific and twisted,
creating hidden sects within sects and plots within plots and intrigues
that make the European courts of the middle ages look mild.
To pretend the Japanese are a "pretty unifed race," just because they
were forced to be sheeplike by centuries of God-Emperors and Murderous
Feudal Lords is insane. The Feudal Lords never for a moment united, and
the religious leaders also were in a constant state of splitting and
dividing, strife at the highest level of insanity, each competing for an
Imperial Pat on the back and rectal insertion and to avoid the Sword
Blade on the neck.
In Japan, throughout their history, the assumption is that your co-leader
or brother, co-feudal lord are going to stab you in the back when you
aren't looking and when they get their chance, so they can get the prize.
The structured competition is built in, each person snared in the
corporate pyramid, with aspirations to get the "I did my best for the
Emperor and for my CLAN" statuette, "so now my ancestors won't haunt me
anymore and I can rest in peace and not be disgraced."
In the meantime women were complelty subjugated and had to create their
own hidden culture. The masses of common people in Japan were followers
because if they didn't follow, their head was sliced off and in terms of
this current topic, the cowardly priests who won't speak out because they
will lose their jobs and their families will be out in the street and
they will be digraced.
Since democracy appeared in Japan, after they had to have nuclear,
fucking bombs dropped on their asses, to shut them up, with their insane
God Emperor Bullshit which continued up until 60 years ago this
summer!----- now more people speak out and their factionalization become
less hidden and more open, but its all STILL psychologically tied into
centuries of habitual subjugation and heretical ideation of the most
demented types.
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are
only looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface to it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

It was just a joke, dc - severely factionalized:). As in - Facts that
are severe.

Oh God---it was worse then i thought. :)

factionalized=fac·tion·al·ize (fksh-n-lz)
tr.v. fac·tion·al·ized, fac·tion·al·iz·ing, fac·tion·al·iz·es
To split (a group, for example) into disputatious factions: "Once a faculty
is factionalized, of course, the process of appointments becomes partly a
competition for allies"




dc



It struck me as being funny in context. Honestly, though, I don't

Post by op
really think (maybe I'm wrong) that Mark P. meant unified in its
complementary term, maybe he did.
I think of Japanese conformity as something more like strangely (to most
of us) their own brand of oddness that puts the group before the
individual and so on...
This, including the part of the Japanese culture that you speak of above
isn't one of its more pleasant parts, and certainly isn't confined to NST.
I don't know what NST has done since the split, but I do know that SGI has
maintained its Japanese style of bizarre conformity using the typical
Japanese cultural way of doing so. This Japanese style works for some;
not me though. I agree that the style itself does have a reptilian
flavor. Ugh. op

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized.
most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

It was just a joke, dc - severely factionalized:). As in - Facts that
are severe.

Dc, dc, I was making a joke by playing with the word. Gad. You get the 15
extra credit points for using the word correctly, actually looking it up,
and 20 more for spelling it decently:). However, you get 10 deducted for
not appreciating word related humor. Now, who would have expected you to
have used the word correctly in the first place? See below: "it was was
worse "then" i thought...

Then? When? Before the split or after?

Post by Yelps
Oh God---it was worse then i thought. :)
factionalized=fac·tion·al·ize (fksh-n-lz)
tr.v. fac·tion·al·ized, fac·tion·al·iz·ing, fac·tion·al·iz·es
To split (a group, for example) into disputatious factions: "Once a
faculty is factionalized, of course, the process of appointments becomes
partly a competition for allies"
dc
It struck me as being funny in context. Honestly, though, I don't

Post by op
really think (maybe I'm wrong) that Mark P. meant unified in its
complementary term, maybe he did.
I think of Japanese conformity as something more like strangely (to most
of us) their own brand of oddness that puts the group before the
individual and so on...
This, including the part of the Japanese culture that you speak of above
isn't one of its more pleasant parts, and certainly isn't confined to NST.
I don't know what NST has done since the split, but I do know that SGI
has maintained its Japanese style of bizarre conformity using the typical
Japanese cultural way of doing so. This Japanese style works for some;
not me though. I agree that the style itself does have a reptilian
flavor. Ugh. op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized.
most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

It was just a joke, dc - severely factionalized:). As in - Facts that
are severe.

Dc, dc, I was making a joke by playing with the word. Gad. You get the
15 extra credit points for using the word correctly, actually looking it
up, and 20 more for spelling it decently:). However, you get 10 deducted
for not appreciating word related humor. Now, who would have expected
you to have used the word correctly in the first place? See below: "it
was was worse "then" i thought...
Then? When? Before the split or after?

Op, plz. If you don't know the meaning of a word look it up. You weren't
joking you were spacing and you know it.

BEFORE and AFTER and now. Nikkenism is a stew of many factions, anti
gakkai, pro-gakkai, anti Nikken, doesn't matter. they have all broken the
Ha-Wagoso and need to be taken to task.

The Gakkai kept most of what was really going on inside Taisekiji, quiet,
since the mid seventies and using the term Nikken Sect, was also an attempt
to protect regular believers and try to keep the name "Nichiren Shoshu"
clean.

dc

Post by op

Post by Yelps
Oh God---it was worse then i thought. :)
factionalized=fac·tion·al·ize (fksh-n-lz)
tr.v. fac·tion·al·ized, fac·tion·al·iz·ing, fac·tion·al·iz·es
To split (a group, for example) into disputatious factions: "Once a
faculty is factionalized, of course, the process of appointments becomes
partly a competition for allies"
dc
It struck me as being funny in context. Honestly, though, I don't

Post by op
really think (maybe I'm wrong) that Mark P. meant unified in its
complementary term, maybe he did.
I think of Japanese conformity as something more like strangely (to most
of us) their own brand of oddness that puts the group before the
individual and so on...
This, including the part of the Japanese culture that you speak of above
isn't one of its more pleasant parts, and certainly isn't confined to NST.
I don't know what NST has done since the split, but I do know that SGI
has maintained its Japanese style of bizarre conformity using the
typical Japanese cultural way of doing so. This Japanese style works
for some; not me though. I agree that the style itself does have a
reptilian flavor. Ugh. op

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by op

Post by Yelps
No Op, the Majority don't. Taisekeji is severely factionalized.
most of
the Priest know it's bullshit, but the powers that be pay their salaries.
It's ugly.

It was just a joke, dc - severely factionalized:). As in - Facts that
are severe.

Dc, dc, I was making a joke by playing with the word. Gad. You get the
15 extra credit points for using the word correctly, actually looking it
up, and 20 more for spelling it decently:). However, you get 10
deducted for not appreciating word related humor. Now, who would have
expected you to have used the word correctly in the first place? See
below: "it was was worse "then" i thought...
Then? When? Before the split or after?

Op, plz. If you don't know the meaning of a word look it up. You weren't
joking you were spacing and you know it.

Oh? Like I can't space and tell jokes at the same time? LOL. c'mon dc it
was a joke. don't be lame. This latter was a word joke, too. "Then"
being the keyword.

[Kurt]

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL

I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.

I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

If you want real answers, one needs to get off their butt perched in
front of the computer screen and interface with the real world.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.

Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.

op

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?

DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.

That to me is simple arrogance.

I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).

Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

Never had these issues with any priests. Even the top ones.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

Post by Kurt
Never had these issues with any priests. Even the top ones.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding
of both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at
the time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was
split in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe it's hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters
around, huh? Just a thought. op

Post by Kurt
Never had these issues with any priests. Even the top ones.

Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????

You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Any High Priest capable of that, is capable of any digusting behavior.

I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I happened to mention the Warning Article alterations to a couple of NST
members and both of them reacted the same, "whose Nikko Shonin?"

You guys are so thick-headed it's hard to believe.

dc

[.::Cody::.]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding
of both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at
the time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was
split in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe it's hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters
around, huh? Just a thought. op

Post by Kurt
Never had these issues with any priests. Even the top ones.

Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????

Look who's talking, the man who rejoined the cult.

Post by Yelps
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.
Any High Priest capable of that, is capable of any digusting behavior.
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.
I happened to mention the Warning Article alterations to a couple of NST
members and both of them reacted the same, "whose Nikko Shonin?"
You guys are so thick-headed it's hard to believe.
dc

It didn't happen, except in the lies of the SS which you, like a fool,
believe. Now go sing a song to Old Fat Lips and leave us True Buddhists
alone.

Cody

[Mark P.]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.


Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[Yelps]

Post by Mark P.
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.

You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!

Yah and the Daishonin, taught the nembutsu!!!

dc

Post by Mark P.
Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[...::cody:...]

Post by Yelps

Post by Mark P.
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.

You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!

No, he isn't. No Warning Article was changed except in your sick head.

Post by Yelps
Yah and the Daishonin, taught the nembutsu!!!
dc

YOU teach people to join a cult.

Cody

[Mark P.]

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:59:49 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!

I guess everyone is a pinhead if they don't agree with your delusion!


Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[Yelps]

Post by Yelps

Post by Mark P.
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.

You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!
Yah and the Daishonin, taught the nembutsu!!!
dc

Take the 17th and 25th Warning article to a hundred highly educated,
unbiased Japanese and ALL 100 of then will tell you the same thing. The
17th article mentions no one but the High Priest, and the 25th, mentioning
that a immoral priest can still remain a priest of low rank. The altered
phrases--are complelty bogus.

It does not specify anything about any other person hired by the High Priest
and the 25th says nothing about "don't make an issue of it with the members"
while omitting the real meaning which is fial the goddamn priest. Even
though these other can be said to applicable, or implied in various ways,
by rewriting the articles and omitting the reral conclusions, they now have
an entirely differnt meaning, which turned fallibility into infallibility or
a Buddhist Pope.

dc

[Yelps]

Ok i'll correct the typoes and content:

Take the 17th and 25th Warning article to a hundred highly educated,
unbiased Japanese and ALL 100 of then will tell you the same thing.

The 17th article mentions no one other then a High Priest.

The 25th, says that a immoral high ranking priest can still remain a
priest---that after being busted for debauchery he can still remain a
priest

The altered phrases--are complelty bogus--taking advantage of some implied
meanings such as that brought up by Nittatsu Shonin in regards to the 17th
article, that it would also apply to a leader appointed by a High
Priest--This is not stated in the article but it is common sense.


It does not specify anything about any other person hired by the High Priest
and the 25th says nothing about "don't make an issue of it with the members"
even if it is implied to a degree.


The altered articles are omitting the real meaning which in bost cases is to
fire the goddamn priest. By rewriting the articles and omitting the real
clearcut conclusions, they now have
an entirely differnt meaning, which turned fallibility into infallibility of
a Buddhist Pope.

dc

Post by Yelps

Post by Yelps

Post by Mark P.
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.

You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!
Yah and the Daishonin, taught the nembutsu!!!
dc

Take the 17th and 25th Warning article to a hundred highly educated,
unbiased Japanese and ALL 100 of then will tell you the same thing. The
17th article mentions no one but the High Priest, and the 25th,
mentioning that a immoral priest can still remain a priest of low rank.
The altered phrases--are complelty bogus.
It does not specify anything about any other person hired by the High
Priest and the 25th says nothing about "don't make an issue of it with the
members" while omitting the real meaning which is fial the goddamn priest.
Even though these other can be said to applicable, or implied in various
ways, by rewriting the articles and omitting the reral conclusions, they
now have an entirely differnt meaning, which turned fallibility into
infallibility or a Buddhist Pope.
dc

[....Cody....]

Post by Yelps

Post by Yelps

Post by Mark P.
On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:29:09 -0700, "Yelps"

Post by Yelps
Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.

Even if he did do what you say it happened after the fact of Ikeda's
ex-communication, not before. This is just backtracking in order to
lay blame on someone elses doorstep.

Post by Yelps
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.

I can't imagine that you think the 26 Warning Articles were changed at
all. No documents were altered and you're free to have the Japanese
re-translated if you want to.

You are an absolute ..........PINHEAD!
Yah and the Daishonin, taught the nembutsu!!!
dc

Take the 17th and 25th Warning article to a hundred highly educated,
unbiased Japanese and ALL 100 of then will tell you the same thing. The
17th article mentions no one but the High Priest, and the 25th, mentioning
that a immoral priest can still remain a priest of low rank. The altered
phrases--are complelty bogus.
It does not specify anything about any other person hired by the High Priest
and the 25th says nothing about "don't make an issue of it with the members"
while omitting the real meaning which is fial the goddamn priest. Even
though these other can be said to applicable, or implied in various ways,
by rewriting the articles and omitting the reral conclusions, they now have
an entirely differnt meaning, which turned fallibility into infallibility or
a Buddhist Pope.
dc

Yawn, more SGI Ikeda Cult lies.

Cody

[Kurt]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding
of both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at
the time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was
split in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe it's hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters
around, huh? Just a thought. op

Post by Kurt
Never had these issues with any priests. Even the top ones.

Look people. Have IQ's dropped sharply?????
You don't alter 2 of the "26 Warning Articles," of Nikko Shonin, that
expressely blocks the idea of a High Priest's "Infallibility," and change
them to make a High Priest Infallible, and try to trick people----it's
blatant insanity!! Not grasping the significance of this is mind boggling.
Any High Priest capable of that, is capable of any digusting behavior.
I can't imagine that you guys can't figure this out.
I happened to mention the Warning Article alterations to a couple of NST
members and both of them reacted the same, "whose Nikko Shonin?"
You guys are so thick-headed it's hard to believe.
dc

Yes there are older members who, as they always have, still blur the SGI
and NST and really don't study. Pretty sure you don't know any newer
members.

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported by the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good
perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good understanding of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a
Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of the SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I had to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple at the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family was split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English. Maybe it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Her translator was a WCC employee, and not a top leader. Are you saying
that Mrs. Hachiya was guarding her words carefully simply because there
was an SGI employee there?

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good
perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking
about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a
Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of
the
SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I
had
to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple
at
the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family
was
split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe
it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Her translator was a WCC employee, and not a top leader. Are you saying
that Mrs. Hachiya was guarding her words carefully simply because there
was an SGI employee there?

I would say that Mrs. Hachiya was being careful with her words, aka guarding
her words, because she probably didn't feel that she was in an environment
where she could speak her mind and not have her words come back to haunt her
in a bad way. I am speculating on this of course, Kurt, since I am not
inside her head. But it often happens, even with individuals such as you or
I, that we are more open with what we say to a trusted friend than with what
we say in a group of less well known people or "other" such as with you, and
the SGI employee. Consider that if she said "the wrong thing" by SGI
standards how that might have gone over with SGI central. Enough said.
You may be the type of person who says anything at all to anyone at all. I
am not. I reserve saying some things to my friends whom I feel I can trust,
and whom I have built a relationship where they know me well enough to know
where I'm coming from when I say something that appears to come from left
field, which I sometimes do. Actually, Cody and I have such an online
friendship, believe it or not. But, we have worked on it for years via IM,
and transcended our religious differences, or fought them out, in order to
reach that point. We continue to discuss them, and we each say what we
really think. As you know, Cody doesn't mince words on the subject. That's
kind of off topic, yet it is not.
People are generally more honest with individuals or groups of people with
whom they feel very comfortable. I don't see the conversations that
happened with you and Mrs. Hachiya or with Me and Mrs. Hachiya as being held
in the kind of settings that would lead to a completely open and honest
discussion on her part. She is, after all, an SGI leader.
I was just stating that in the event one were ever to be close enough to her
to actually have a real relationship with her, she'd be an interesting
person to talk with regarding the split, things that happened before and
after. The reason for this is that she is a top SGI leader whose brother is
an NST member, so she definitely has heard and seen both sides. I also
have mentioned before that it would be interesting to be a mouse in the
corner listening in and being able to understand some of the conversations
that take place in Japan at the top level of NST and SGI.
Inquiring minds want to know. op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means
you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath
the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good
perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking
about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a
Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the
priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling to his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years
ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of
the
SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I
had
to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple
at
the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family
was
split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe
it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters around, huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss issues with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Her translator was a WCC employee, and not a top leader. Are you saying
that Mrs. Hachiya was guarding her words carefully simply because there
was an SGI employee there?

I would say that Mrs. Hachiya was being careful with her words, aka guarding
her words, because she probably didn't feel that she was in an environment
where she could speak her mind and not have her words come back to haunt her
in a bad way. I am speculating on this of course, Kurt, since I am not
inside her head. But it often happens, even with individuals such as you or
I, that we are more open with what we say to a trusted friend than with what
we say in a group of less well known people or "other" such as with you, and
the SGI employee. Consider that if she said "the wrong thing" by SGI
standards how that might have gone over with SGI central. Enough said.
You may be the type of person who says anything at all to anyone at all. I
am not. I reserve saying some things to my friends whom I feel I can trust,
and whom I have built a relationship where they know me well enough to know
where I'm coming from when I say something that appears to come from left
field, which I sometimes do. Actually, Cody and I have such an online
friendship, believe it or not. But, we have worked on it for years via IM,
and transcended our religious differences, or fought them out, in order to
reach that point. We continue to discuss them, and we each say what we
really think. As you know, Cody doesn't mince words on the subject. That's
kind of off topic, yet it is not.
People are generally more honest with individuals or groups of people with
whom they feel very comfortable. I don't see the conversations that
happened with you and Mrs. Hachiya or with Me and Mrs. Hachiya as being held
in the kind of settings that would lead to a completely open and honest
discussion on her part. She is, after all, an SGI leader.
I was just stating that in the event one were ever to be close enough to her
to actually have a real relationship with her, she'd be an interesting
person to talk with regarding the split, things that happened before and
after. The reason for this is that she is a top SGI leader whose brother is
an NST member, so she definitely has heard and seen both sides. I also
have mentioned before that it would be interesting to be a mouse in the
corner listening in and being able to understand some of the conversations
that take place in Japan at the top level of NST and SGI.
Inquiring minds want to know. op

Back after the split, I was able to get what I felt were straight
answers from our priest. I didn't really know him then at all. I went to
him.

The problem I had with the Hachiya meeting is that it was arranged for
us specifically to address our in-depth questions about the SGI.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

In article

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family
means
you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath
the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my
involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good
perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking
about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a
Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile,
as
did
several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the
priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and
ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling
to
his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few years
ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of
the
SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I
had
to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive
answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple
at
the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family
was
split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe
it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters
around,
huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss
issues
with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Her translator was a WCC employee, and not a top leader. Are you saying
that Mrs. Hachiya was guarding her words carefully simply because there
was an SGI employee there?

I would say that Mrs. Hachiya was being careful with her words, aka guarding
her words, because she probably didn't feel that she was in an environment
where she could speak her mind and not have her words come back to haunt her
in a bad way. I am speculating on this of course, Kurt, since I am not
inside her head. But it often happens, even with individuals such as you or
I, that we are more open with what we say to a trusted friend than with what
we say in a group of less well known people or "other" such as with you, and
the SGI employee. Consider that if she said "the wrong thing" by SGI
standards how that might have gone over with SGI central. Enough said.
You may be the type of person who says anything at all to anyone at all.
I
am not. I reserve saying some things to my friends whom I feel I can trust,
and whom I have built a relationship where they know me well enough to know
where I'm coming from when I say something that appears to come from left
field, which I sometimes do. Actually, Cody and I have such an online
friendship, believe it or not. But, we have worked on it for years via IM,
and transcended our religious differences, or fought them out, in order to
reach that point. We continue to discuss them, and we each say what we
really think. As you know, Cody doesn't mince words on the subject.
That's
kind of off topic, yet it is not.
People are generally more honest with individuals or groups of people with
whom they feel very comfortable. I don't see the conversations that
happened with you and Mrs. Hachiya or with Me and Mrs. Hachiya as being held
in the kind of settings that would lead to a completely open and honest
discussion on her part. She is, after all, an SGI leader.
I was just stating that in the event one were ever to be close enough to her
to actually have a real relationship with her, she'd be an interesting
person to talk with regarding the split, things that happened before and
after. The reason for this is that she is a top SGI leader whose brother is
an NST member, so she definitely has heard and seen both sides. I also
have mentioned before that it would be interesting to be a mouse in the
corner listening in and being able to understand some of the
conversations
that take place in Japan at the top level of NST and SGI.
Inquiring minds want to know. op

Back after the split, I was able to get what I felt were straight
answers from our priest. I didn't really know him then at all. I went to
him.
The problem I had with the Hachiya meeting is that it was arranged for
us specifically to address our in-depth questions about the SGI.
--

Oh. Okay, I get it. Do you remember any of the questions you asked that
seemed to not go over so well?
The meeting I had with her was in the early 90s, and my questions at the
time were more along the line of "well, what's going to happen to the
priests?" That kind of thing. Nothing to make any SGI leader have a
stroke. I would undoubtedly have more "undesirable" questions now, but
really, most of them have been asked already by others such as Andy and
other IRG members. I would no doubt get a similar response - as in "hit
the road with those questions." That's the polite version of the response
I speculate I would get. :) Except for my SGI friends who would probably
get really upset and say "Why in the heck did you do that?"
op

Post by Kurt
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by op

In article

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family
means
you
are
only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath
the
surface
to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my
involvement
with
the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good
perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's
talking
about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone
a
Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his
conversations
with
the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced
him
that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's
talked
with
the
priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile,
as
did
several
members of his family.
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is
painting
the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the
priesthood
as
all
bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported
by
the
facts that are known to us.
op

Why would anyone take the word of a few dissenting priests and
ignore
dialogue with the larger majority that paint a completely
different
picture?
DC now tells us he expects our chief priest to come groveling
to
his
feet to his beef with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
That to me is simple arrogance.
I had an extensive personal meeting with Mrs. Hachiya a few
years
ago.
Sweet and very sincere lady, but opened me up to the extent of
the
SGI
POV. She was extremely uncomfortable with how much I knew and I
had
to
work to make her at ease. (and I'm a pretty easy-going type).
Tried to get more out of her without offending her Japanese
sensibilities, but still got a lot of rhetorical and evasive
answers.
Spent well over 2 hours with her.

She is a lovely person, and I feel that she has a very good
understanding
of
both sides of the issue, since her brother "went" with the temple
at
the
time of the split, and she stayed with the gakkai, so her family
was
split
in that way. Too bad that she isn't more fluent in English.
Maybe
it's
hard for her to give more direct answers with interpreters
around,
huh?
Just a thought. op

No, she had a fluent translator, she was evasive.

I "meant" maybe she'd be less "evasive" if one were to discuss
issues
with
her one on one without other people around. More clear? op

It was me, another member, she and her translator at my friend's house.

Exactly. So that everything she said could be reported back by the
translator or "other" to the powers that be. All I was saying, Kurt, is
that since she does have a broad knowledge of the issues in Japan it would
be interesting to talk with her one on one if someone had her complete
trust - not likely that this would happen in real life, though.
When I talked with her, her "translator" was a top SGI Sr. Leader - that
isn't exactly an unbiased person. Am I being more clear now? I hope that
you are understanding what I'm trying to say:). op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Her translator was a WCC employee, and not a top leader. Are you saying
that Mrs. Hachiya was guarding her words carefully simply because there
was an SGI employee there?

I would say that Mrs. Hachiya was being careful with her words, aka guarding
her words, because she probably didn't feel that she was in an environment
where she could speak her mind and not have her words come back to haunt her
in a bad way. I am speculating on this of course, Kurt, since I am not
inside her head. But it often happens, even with individuals such as you or
I, that we are more open with what we say to a trusted friend than with what
we say in a group of less well known people or "other" such as with you, and
the SGI employee. Consider that if she said "the wrong thing" by SGI
standards how that might have gone over with SGI central. Enough said.
You may be the type of person who says anything at all to anyone at all.
I
am not. I reserve saying some things to my friends whom I feel I can trust,
and whom I have built a relationship where they know me well enough to know
where I'm coming from when I say something that appears to come from left
field, which I sometimes do. Actually, Cody and I have such an online
friendship, believe it or not. But, we have worked on it for years via IM,
and transcended our religious differences, or fought them out, in order to
reach that point. We continue to discuss them, and we each say what we
really think. As you know, Cody doesn't mince words on the subject.
That's
kind of off topic, yet it is not.
People are generally more honest with individuals or groups of people with
whom they feel very comfortable. I don't see the conversations that
happened with you and Mrs. Hachiya or with Me and Mrs. Hachiya as being held
in the kind of settings that would lead to a completely open and honest
discussion on her part. She is, after all, an SGI leader.
I was just stating that in the event one were ever to be close enough to her
to actually have a real relationship with her, she'd be an interesting
person to talk with regarding the split, things that happened before and
after. The reason for this is that she is a top SGI leader whose brother is
an NST member, so she definitely has heard and seen both sides. I also
have mentioned before that it would be interesting to be a mouse in the
corner listening in and being able to understand some of the conversations
that take place in Japan at the top level of NST and SGI.
Inquiring minds want to know. op

Back after the split, I was able to get what I felt were straight
answers from our priest. I didn't really know him then at all. I went to
him.
The problem I had with the Hachiya meeting is that it was arranged for
us specifically to address our in-depth questions about the SGI.
--

Oh. Okay, I get it. Do you remember any of the questions you asked that
seemed to not go over so well?
The meeting I had with her was in the early 90s, and my questions at the
time were more along the line of "well, what's going to happen to the
priests?" That kind of thing. Nothing to make any SGI leader have a
stroke. I would undoubtedly have more "undesirable" questions now, but
really, most of them have been asked already by others such as Andy and
other IRG members. I would no doubt get a similar response - as in "hit
the road with those questions." That's the polite version of the response
I speculate I would get. :) Except for my SGI friends who would probably
get really upset and say "Why in the heck did you do that?"
op

I just remember that she had a hard time that I knew a lot about the
temple, how the little the SGI contributed, how the priests were
treated, etc.

[Shimatani]

Post by op
Oh. Okay, I get it. Do you remember any of the questions you asked that
seemed to not go over so well?

Yes.... enquiring minds want to know. Not that I'm expecting Kurt to
remember.

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by op
Oh. Okay, I get it. Do you remember any of the questions you asked that
seemed to not go over so well?

Yes.... enquiring minds want to know. Not that I'm expecting Kurt to
remember.

We went through just about everything we talked about online back in
94-96. Doctrinal changes by the SGI, financials, how much the SGI really
supported the temple, structure of overseas propagation, Temple
harassment by SGI members, the scenerio that SGI gave us about the true
nature of the split. Things I really wanted to get from someone who was
in a position of knowing the real scoop.

[Shimatani]

Post by Kurt
We went through just about everything we talked about online back in
94-96. Doctrinal changes by the SGI, financials, how much the SGI really
supported the temple, structure of overseas propagation, Temple
harassment by SGI members, the scenerio that SGI gave us about the true
nature of the split. Things I really wanted to get from someone who was
in a position of knowing the real scoop.

Okay.... so nothing that wasn't discussed over the years.
For me I found more insight into the nature of the split from the
reform priests.

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
We went through just about everything we talked about online back in
94-96. Doctrinal changes by the SGI, financials, how much the SGI really
supported the temple, structure of overseas propagation, Temple
harassment by SGI members, the scenerio that SGI gave us about the true
nature of the split. Things I really wanted to get from someone who was
in a position of knowing the real scoop.

Okay.... so nothing that wasn't discussed over the years.
For me I found more insight into the nature of the split from the
reform priests.

I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

[Shimatani]

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

[op]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST priests,
and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in would maybe
clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and over on this
and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST
priests, and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in
would maybe clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and
over on this and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

"odd discrepancies" such as

Kudo: He was well known in Nichiren Shoshu for his hot temper, which often
resulted in violent outbursts toward acolytes. In fact, acolytes were
frightened of him because he would often hit them. He never hit me; however,
I knew that if he did I would hit him back. In short, he only hit those who
didn't seem to have the guts to retaliate. I think he is a coward.

Soka Shimpo: Second president Toda once scolded a youthful priest Abe (now
High Priest Nikken). Do you recall that?

Kudo: Yes. I did not witness it, but I have heard of the incident. In his
article, titled “On the Occasion of Toda Sensei's Passing,” in the May 1958
issue of Dai-nichiren, High Priest Nikken writes: “Perhaps because of my
negative karma, or maybe because of the 'baseness of the priest's nature,'
which Toda Sensei always rebuked and which I must have had in me, I
inadvertently built a wall in my heart around 1949 to ward him off. In those
days, my attitude did not fully comply with the spirit of Toda Sensei, who
was well versed in the 'round teachings' of the Lotus Sutra and very strict
about the mastery of the Way.”

[Cody]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST
priests, and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in
would maybe clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and
over on this and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

"odd discrepancies" such as
Kudo: He was well known in Nichiren Shoshu for his hot temper, which often
resulted in violent outbursts toward acolytes. In fact, acolytes were
frightened of him because he would often hit them. He never hit me; however,
I knew that if he did I would hit him back. In short, he only hit those who
didn't seem to have the guts to retaliate. I think he is a coward.
Soka Shimpo: Second president Toda once scolded a youthful priest Abe (now
High Priest Nikken). Do you recall that?
Kudo: Yes. I did not witness it, but I have heard of the incident. In his
article, titled “On the Occasion of Toda Sensei's Passing,” in the May 1958
issue of Dai-nichiren, High Priest Nikken writes: “Perhaps because of my
negative karma, or maybe because of the 'baseness of the priest's nature,'
which Toda Sensei always rebuked and which I must have had in me, I
inadvertently built a wall in my heart around 1949 to ward him off. In those
days, my attitude did not fully comply with the spirit of Toda Sensei, who
was well versed in the 'round teachings' of the Lotus Sutra and very strict
about the mastery of the Way.”

Now that you have time on your hands due to not having to plonk me, you
are searching Google for old, soundly refuted, garbage that Wersant
posted years ago?

Cody

[Kurt]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST
priests, and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in
would maybe clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and
over on this and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

"odd discrepancies" such as
Kudo: He was well known in Nichiren Shoshu for his hot temper, which often
resulted in violent outbursts toward acolytes. In fact, acolytes were
frightened of him because he would often hit them. He never hit me; however,
I knew that if he did I would hit him back. In short, he only hit those who
didn't seem to have the guts to retaliate. I think he is a coward.
Soka Shimpo: Second president Toda once scolded a youthful priest Abe (now
High Priest Nikken). Do you recall that?
Kudo: Yes. I did not witness it, but I have heard of the incident. In his
article, titled “On the Occasion of Toda Sensei's Passing,” in the May 1958
issue of Dai-nichiren, High Priest Nikken writes: “Perhaps because of my
negative karma, or maybe because of the 'baseness of the priest's nature,'
which Toda Sensei always rebuked and which I must have had in me, I
inadvertently built a wall in my heart around 1949 to ward him off. In those
days, my attitude did not fully comply with the spirit of Toda Sensei, who
was well versed in the 'round teachings' of the Lotus Sutra and very strict
about the mastery of the Way.”

Yes, the hard-hitting Soka Shimpo isn't afraid to ask the tough
questions.

Kudo certainly had his issues, but the priesthood is a different world
to begin with.
But there are 2000 priests today who all went up through the same system.
I've personally talked with too many younger priests to get quite a
different picture.

How many priests have you talked to, Dave?

[Kurt]

Post by op

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST priests,
and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in would maybe
clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and over on this
and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

I remember just after the split how the Gakkai wanted to remonstrate
with the priests here. The problem was is that the SGI wanted on their
turf, on their terms.

[op]

Post by Kurt

Post by op

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

You know, Alan, some kind of open dialogue, even debate if they found it
necessary, with participants from the Gakkai top leadership and NST priests,
and perhaps the reform priests if they also wanted to join in would maybe
clear up some of the odd discrepancies we seem to go over and over on this
and other message boards.
We can all only wish that this would ever happen.
op

I remember just after the split how the Gakkai wanted to remonstrate
with the priests here. The problem was is that the SGI wanted on their
turf, on their terms.

Right. I was thinking more of an actual mutual dialogue/discussion/debate
(what have you) on neutral turf. It would be interesting. Just dreaming
again. op

Post by Kurt
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

[Cody]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

Why should they?

Cody

[Shimatani]

Post by Cody

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

Why should they?
Cody

To prove that NST is not a cult.

[Cody]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

Why should they?
Cody

To prove that NST is not a cult.

No need. You see, SGI is a temporary phenomenon that will disappear when
your mentor/sensei/master kicks the proverbial bucket because that is
all you have. You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon. You don't have access
to the Dai Gohonzon. You don't practise correctly. In short, SGI won't
even be a blip on the radar of Buddhist history "200 years from now".
OTOH, Nichiren Shoshu has existed since the Daishonin founded it over
700 years and is internationally recognized as a bona fide religion.

Cody

[Shimatani]

Post by Cody
You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon.

I don't have a demon infested Nikken Gohonzon. Why do you think so many
NST members have Nittatsu Gohonzons.

[Cody]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody
You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon.

I don't have a demon infested Nikken Gohonzon. Why do you think so many
NST members have Nittatsu Gohonzons.

<rolls eyes>

Cody

[Shimatani]

Post by Cody

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody
You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon.

I don't have a demon infested Nikken Gohonzon. Why do you think so many
NST members have Nittatsu Gohonzons.

<rolls eyes>

What about the tattoo of the eye on your forehead.

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody
You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon.

I don't have a demon infested Nikken Gohonzon. Why do you think so many
NST members have Nittatsu Gohonzons.

<rolls eyes>

What about the tattoo of the eye on your forehead.

Did Dave post another Photoshopped picture of Cody?

[Shimatani]

Post by Kurt

Post by Shimatani
What about the tattoo of the eye on your forehead.

Did Dave post another Photoshopped picture of Cody?

Maybe I read wrong but I could've sworn that Cody said he had a
Hallogram Tattoo of an eye on his forehead. So like no matter where you
move the eyeball follows you.

[Cody]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt

Post by Shimatani
What about the tattoo of the eye on your forehead.

Did Dave post another Photoshopped picture of Cody?

Maybe I read wrong but I could've sworn that Cody said he had a
Hallogram Tattoo of an eye on his forehead. So like no matter where you
move the eyeball follows you.

You're losing it, Alan.

Cody

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt

Post by Shimatani
What about the tattoo of the eye on your forehead.

Did Dave post another Photoshopped picture of Cody?

Maybe I read wrong but I could've sworn that Cody said he had a
Hallogram Tattoo of an eye on his forehead. So like no matter where you
move the eyeball follows you.

"Hallogram"? Is that a Halloween telegram?

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Cody
You don't have a bona fide Gohonzon.

I don't have a demon infested Nikken Gohonzon. Why do you think so many
NST members have Nittatsu Gohonzons.

I have a Nikken-inscribed Gohonzon. My life has never been more
spiritually fulfilling. The material end ain't too shabby, either, but
that's not the point.

[Shimatani]

Post by Kurt
I have a Nikken-inscribed Gohonzon. My life has never been more
spiritually fulfilling. The material end ain't too shabby, either, but
that's not the point.

So you exchanged your Nittatsu tokubetsu one for a Nikken one? What was
wrong with the Nittatsu one?

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I have a Nikken-inscribed Gohonzon. My life has never been more
spiritually fulfilling. The material end ain't too shabby, either, but
that's not the point.

So you exchanged your Nittatsu tokubetsu one for a Nikken one? What was
wrong with the Nittatsu one?

Never had a special Okatagi tokubetsu Nittatsu, so when the opportunity
was offered to me, I was was happy to accept.
Nothing was wrong with my Nittatsu, aside from having the backing paper
replaced a few years back because of age.

[Reginald Carpenter]

Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
******************************************************
Re: Dave Cole steps in voodoo and doesn't realize it.

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 8:38am (CDT-2)
From: ***@spacegmail.com (Kurt)

In article <***@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Shimatani" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

Kurt wrote:
I have a Nikken-inscribed Gohonzon. My life has never been more
spiritually fulfilling. The material end ain't too shabby, either, but
that's not the point.
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Shimatani] So you exchanged your Nittatsu tokubetsu one for a Nikken
one? What was wrong with the Nittatsu one?
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Kurt] Never had a special Okatagi tokubetsu Nittatsu, so when the
opportunity was offered to me, I was was happy to accept. Nothing was
wrong with my Nittatsu, aside from having the backing paper replaced a
few years back because of age.
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC comments: First of all, that arrogant & ignorant, very low life
conditioned Kurt the HYPOCRITE Triffet, who was TAITEN in faith for
about ten (10) years, never even deserved to receive a Gohonzon of ANY
kind transcribed by the 66th High Priest/ Nittatsu Shonin in the first
d-a-m-ned place! So, that is "what was wrong" with that, "Shimatani"
FooL! LOL.

Secondly, re. the subject/ title, the Kurt FooL knowingly &
intentionally traded-in an authentic, beautiful & original Nittatsu
Shonin transcribed Gohonzon for an angry & U-gly looking Nikken Shonin
transcribed, NOT "inscribed", Gohonzon which just made his very sorry
Dumb-ass a bonafide & certified Nikken CULTist/ brown nosing
priest-groupie, aka. Nikkenite, NOT a Nichiren Daishonin True Buddhism
believer; of course NOT!

"How pitiful, how pitiful!" - Nichiren Daishonin.

ROTFL! BJW - Buddhist Jihad War } : < { 0
******************************************************


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[Kurt]

Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
******************************************************

And a cheery good morning to you, too!

[Juanjo]

Post by Kurt

Post by Reginald Carpenter
Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
******************************************************

And a cheery good morning to you, too!

Is that whack job still posting? I kill filed him ages ago. Best decision
I ever made.

[Reginald Carpenter]

Re: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still does NOT know it!*

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Mon, Jul 24, 2006, 6:26pm (CDT+5) From: ***@mindspring.com
(Juanjo)

"Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
In article <7719-44C4E18F-***@storefull-3337.bay.webtv.net>,
***@webtv.net (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:
Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
****************************************************** [Kurt] And a
cheery good morning to you, too!
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Juanjo] Is that whack job still posting? I kill filed him ages ago.
Best decision I ever made.
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: Well, if that's the "best decision" that you've "ever made,"
now Arbn readers know just why you've been such an arrogant & ignorant,
LYING-ass, low life conditioned Dumb-ass, John Petry, aka. Juanjo, nka.
Jon Petry-fied & JonJo. Your old crazy-ass just CONFESSed that you were
actually trying to buy Up all of those antiquated & mutilated Nichiren
Shu NoHonzons auctioned on Ebay, probably MISappropriating & MISusing
your NONA members money, and trying to use Stoney (me) as the reason for
your own folly! Now, just go sit on it & do your whack jobbing/
whacking off someplace else in cyberspace*, you "JonJo" NUTcase! ROTFL.

BJW - Buddhist Jihad War. } : < { 0


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[Reginald Carpenter]

Re: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still does NOT know it!*

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Mon, Jul 24, 2006, 8:28am (CDT-2) From: ***@spacegmail.com
(Kurt)

In article <7719-44C4E18F-***@storefull-3337.bay.webtv.net>,
***@webtv.net (Reginald Carpenter) wrote:

Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
******************************************************
[KT] And a cheery good morning to you, too!
******************************************************
RC replies: Well, thank you, Mr Kurt-esy! : - )

1). I just wanted to let you (all) know that I'm back home from my
annual summer vacation, although I have been reading this very sorry
excuse for a newsgroup all along this year. And, I see that No-thing
[Zen] has changed, so I have NOT really missed anything; of course NOT!

2). Re. the subject, I made a "Southern swing" on my 2,400 mile driving
trip in order to chant & home visit with a good friend & former Hokkeko
leader who has been fighting off a very serious, life-threatening
medical condition for the last few years, with NO support from the NaSTy
chief priest & local temple since Y2K, known as "the Big C". So, I got
to see his Nikken Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again that's just like
yours, I guess by the way that you described it, "a special (Jap.)
Okatagi tokubetsu." So, although I didn't tell him this, when he
traded-in his own authentic, original & beautiful Nittatsu Shonin
transcribed Gohonzon for that angry & U-gly lookin' Nikken Shonin
transcribed Gohonzon, that really became the source of all of his
current medical problems, of course.

Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )

3). Anyway, unlike your sorry Dumb-ass, I really know & can see the
difference(s) between the Nittatsu Shonin & Nikken Shonin transcribed
Gohonzon(s) and know why the Gohonzon(s) transcribed by old man NST -
Nikken Slicken & Trickin' just AIN'T made Right! That's because Nikken
Shonin NEVER actually received the so called heritage of the Law from
Nittatsu Shonin and did NOT receive any training from Him to transcribe
the Gohonzon; of course NOT!

"How pitiful, how pitiful!" Nichiren Daishonin.

So, you (all) really made a Big mis-take & "stepped into doodoo" when
you FooLishly gave away/ traded-in your authentic, original & beautiful
Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon(s) and paid Big bucks, err I meant
"donated" Big money for a COUNTERFEITed one transcribed by Nikken
Shonin, or for any Honzon made by the NSS -- Nichiren Shu (shoo!) Inc,
nka "Honzons 'R Us" superstore! ROTFL.

WorldPeace! } : < { 0


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[u***@go.com]

Post by Reginald Carpenter
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )

IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay, right?


And you really think that was a "great cause"?

Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org

[Cody]

Post by u***@go.com

Post by Reginald Carpenter
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )

IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay, right?
And you really think that was a "great cause"?
Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org

Now we know why Reggie buys Gohonzons on Ebay.

Cody

[Reginald Carpenter]

Re: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still does NOT know it!*

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 5:08pm (CDT+7) From:
***@yelps.brainwashedbythecult (Cody)

***@go.com wrote:
Reginald Carpenter wrote:
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )
---------------------------------------------------------------
IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay, right?
And you really think that was a "great cause"?
Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org
---------------------------------------------------------------
Now we know why Reggie buys Gohonzons on Ebay.
Cody
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: What a joke! You all, especially you Senor Cody going
Insane in Spain, really don't even have a clue or know a d-a-m-ned thing
about Reggie (who dat?) or what's really going on in the USA today with
the people practicing so called Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism with NST and/
or Nichiren Buddhism with SGI, unless I tell you FooLs "What's Going
On?"! - Marvin Gaye. LOL.

WorldPeace! } : < { 0


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[Kurt]

Post by u***@go.com

Post by Reginald Carpenter
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )

IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay, right?
And you really think that was a "great cause"?

The SGI teaches that one Gohonzon doesn't have any power over another.
They are all the same. Welcome to "Reggieism."

[Reginald Carpenter]

Re: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still does NOT know it!*

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 8:14am (CDT-2)
From: ***@spacegmail.com (Kurt)

In article <***@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
***@go.com wrote:
Reginald Carpenter wrote:
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Ueno1] IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay,
right?
And you really think that was a "great cause"?
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Kurt] The SGI teaches that one Gohonzon doesn't have any power over
another. They are all the same. Welcome to "Reggieism."
---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: Well, the FACT of the matter is that
the so called Nichiren Shoshu taught all of the members & leaders of the
Soka Gakkai/ SGI that a Gohonzon is really only a Gohonzon if It was one
that was a) authentically inscribed by Nichiren Daishonin or b)
transcribed by a legitimate high priest who actually received the so
called heritage of the law from a legitimate high priest predecessor of
Nichiren Shoshu, and that all other so called Gohonzons are NOT
legitimate and are only Honzons; ie. all of the Honzons made by the NS -
Nichiren Shu (Shysters) Inc. Since he NEVER actually received the so
called heritage of the law from his predecessor, 66th High Priest
Nittatsu Shonin, and certainly was NEVER taught how to transcribe a
Gohonzon by Him, all of the 67th High Priest Nikken Shonin ever
transcribed Gohonzon(s) were FAKEd & COUNTERFEITed Gohonzons and are
merely regarded as Honzons that have NO benefit & power of any kind over
anything what so ever!

Therefore, it is a FACT that any authentic, genuine, beautiful &
original Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon has all power over any
d-a-m-ned COUNTERFEITed, worth-less document known as a Nikken Shonin
transcribed Gohonzon, nka. NoHonzon.

So, welcome to Realism/ Nichiren Daishonin True Buddhism, Mr Kurt-esy!
LOL.

WorldPeace! } : < { 0


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[Kurt]

Post by Reginald Carpenter
So, welcome to Realism/ Nichiren Daishonin True Buddhism, Mr Kurt-esy!
LOL.

Reggie's reality show on Buddhism: "The Surreal Life."

LOL

Have a nice day.

[Reginald Carpenter]

Re: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still does NOT know it!*

Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 7:50am (CDT-2)
From: ***@go.com

Reginald Carpenter wrote:
Well, the good news is that he Mystically got the opportunity to acquire
& begin chanting to an old Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzon again;
and, after almost dying this year, he has regained his health & strength
enough to be able to Stop using & throw away all of the prescription
medicines given to him by doctors who had told him that they couldn't
cure him anyway -- No Way, Jose; of course NOT! : - )
---------------------------------------------------------------

Post by u***@go.com
IOW, you took his authentic Gohonzon and gave him one from Ebay,

right? <<< #1.

RC replies: 1). Answer - Wrong, "Wayno." Do you wanna try & guess
again, friend?! LOL.

Now, RIF - Reading Is Fundamental: although, he still does have his old
worth-less document -- a Nikken Shonin transcribed (Jap.) Okatagi
Tokubetsu Gohonzon that he/ we chanted to, he's got an old Nittatsu
Shonin transcribed Gohonzon that he started chanting to this year.
And, in my opinion, that appears to be what has really change his karma
& prolonged his life, at least for the time being. We're all going to
die eventually, of course.

FYI - although the former 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin & Head Temple/
Taiseki-ji diabolically schemed and tried to get rid of all of them,
there are quite a few authentic, genuine Gohonzons transcribed by the
66th High Priest/ Nittatsu Shonin still in existence that probably will
NEVER wind Up being on Ebay, given the present condition of the world
today. And, even if they did, they are NOT ever going to be returned to
Taiseki-ji to just be destroyed; they will be bought & kept in usage in
order to try to save this very sorry-ass planet!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Post by u***@go.com
And you really think that was a "great cause"? <<< #2. Wayno

---------------------------------------------------------------
RC replies: 2). Well, my opinion is the "great cause" in this case was
that he had the courage & wisdom to do something on his own to save his
life when the circumstances or opportunity mystically presented itself;
although, in all modesty, I can say that my own efforts to try & save
all of the Nittatsu Shonin transcribed Gohonzons that I could on Ebay
was known to him, and that probably influenced him and the other
Brothers in faith who have really supported him in his time of need,
too.

But, the real "great cause" is Kosen-rufu! : - )

WorldPeace! } : < { 0
******************************************************


<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*

[Kurt]

Post by Reginald Carpenter
FYI - although the former 67th High Priest/ Nikken Shonin & Head Temple/
Taiseki-ji diabolically schemed and tried to get rid of all of them,

LOL. What song will you be singing when HP Nichinyo begins transcribing
Gohonzons?

[Yelps]

Petry posts:

Good day, everyone! Re. "Kurt" posting on 7/09/06, 8:38am CDT-2. I

Post by Kurt

Post by Reginald Carpenter
changed the subject/ title to: Kurt Triffet stepped into doodoo & still
does NOT know it!*
******************************************************

And a cheery good morning to you, too!

Is that whack job still posting? I kill filed him ages ago. Best decision
I ever made.<<<<<<<<<<

Doesn't say much for your decision making John, if killfiling someone on
arbn is BEST decision you ever made. A bit shallow don't you think?

But then your decisions in the past have been very problematic--Haven't
they?

dc

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
I got a better perspective from the priests on that. A tiny handful of
SGI-aligned "reform" priests was suspect from the beginning.

So maybe that's why NST priests won't dialogue with them for the record.

Huh? These guys all know each other.

[Kurt]

Post by Shimatani

Post by Kurt
We went through just about everything we talked about online back in
94-96. Doctrinal changes by the SGI, financials, how much the SGI really
supported the temple, structure of overseas propagation, Temple
harassment by SGI members, the scenerio that SGI gave us about the true
nature of the split. Things I really wanted to get from someone who was
in a position of knowing the real scoop.

Okay.... so nothing that wasn't discussed over the years.

Not with one of the top SGI world-wide Women's leaders, that's for
sure...

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced
him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with
the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to convinced
me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they are still
babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as
all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems, as
in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then all I can
say it "get some perspective."

dc

[.::Cody::.]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced
him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with
the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to convinced
me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they are still
babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting the
Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood as
all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not supported
by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems, as
in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then all I can
say it "get some perspective."
dc

Considering the articles weren't changed and the problem with SGI is
that it's a lying cult that uses mind control to keep its slaves in line.

Now, be a good little cultie and put a photo of your sensei, er I mean
Master, er I mean Mentor on the wall and sing a few bars of Forever Sensei.

Cody

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced
him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with
the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to
convinced me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they
are still babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting
the Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems,
as in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then all
I can say it "get some perspective."
dc

Now you are probably going to say my I.Q. is dropping because I can't
decipher this one:
"difference nd" op

[op]

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with the
Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently convinced
him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's talked with
the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite awhile, as did
several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to
convinced me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they
are still babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting
the Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems,
as in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then all
I can say it "get some perspective."
dc

"nd fricitons" sounds too much like a physics term to me.
But, seriously, if one wanted too, and I was thinking of doing this
sometime, one could make out a scorecard of opinions about what points NST
or SGI has gained or lost given certain actions they have taken, and see who
is ahead and behind.
Or not. op

[Yelps]

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with
the Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's
talked with the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite
awhile, as did several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to
convinced me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they
are still babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting
the Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the priesthood
as all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right, and not
supported by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems,
as in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then all
I can say it "get some perspective."
dc

"nd fricitons" sounds too much like a physics term to me.
But, seriously, if one wanted too, and I was thinking of doing this
sometime, one could make out a scorecard of opinions about what points NST
or SGI has gained or lost given certain actions they have taken, and see
who is ahead and behind.
Or not. op

"nd fricitons" IS a physics problem. Its my fingers typing "and friction"

The scorecard it simple.

Gakkai: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 0

Nikkenism: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 2
****
Gakkai: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an insane
cost to members=0

Nikkenism: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an
insane cost to members=1
****
Gakkai: Number of people "excommunciated" =0

Nikkenism: Number of peopel "excommunicated" =Multiple millions
****
Gakkai: number of Court Cases eventually lost by the Gakkai=0

Nikkenism= Number of Courst cases lost by Nikken= ALL of them.
****
Gakkai: number of documents/transcriptions of Daisaku Ikeda saying the "Dai
Gohonzon is a fake"=0

Nikkenism=Number of documents/transcriptions of Nikken saying the "Dai
Gohonzon is a fake=1
****
Gakkai: Number of photos of Daisaku Ikeda surrounded by Geishas and dancing
the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the
photos were altered=0

Nikkenism: Number of photos of Nikken surrounded by Geishas and dancing the
Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the photos
were altered=0

****

Gakkai: Number of incidents involving Daisaki Ikeda with Hookers requiring
police intervention=0

Nikkenism=Number of incidents involving Nikken and Hookers requiring police
intervention=1

****

Gakkai: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Daiaku Ikeda
and the Gakkai Presidents are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and required for
others to attain buddhahood. =0

Nikkenism: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Nikken
and the High Priests are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and required for others
to attain buddhahood. =Many

****

Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda in his Gakkai career, left an
important Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the
country=0

Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken in his priestly career, left an important
Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the country=1


****

Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda as President, has been accused of
striking and beating up members=0

Nikkenism=Number of times Nikken as High Priest has been accused of striking
and beating up accolytes=Numerous

****

Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda has been told by a unbiased Judge his
testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable"--in other words a
LIE=0

Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken was told by an unbiased Judge his
testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable""--in other words a
LIE=at least 1


This list could go on and on.

Anothe version of the list could talk about positive efforts for Kosen Rufu

Gakkai/Daisaku Ikeda= Many

Nikkenism=0


dc

[Yelps]

Post by Yelps
Gakkai: Number of photos of Daisaku Ikeda surrounded by Geishas and
dancing the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and
saying the photos were altered=0
Nikkenism: Number of photos of Nikken surrounded by Geishas and dancing
the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the
photos were altered=1

dc

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with
the Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course he's
talked with the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for quite
awhile, as did several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to
convinced me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they
are still babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting
the Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the
priesthood as all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right,
and not supported by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people problems,
as in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning articles, then
all I can say it "get some perspective."
dc

"nd fricitons" sounds too much like a physics term to me.
But, seriously, if one wanted too, and I was thinking of doing this
sometime, one could make out a scorecard of opinions about what points
NST or SGI has gained or lost given certain actions they have taken, and
see who is ahead and behind.
Or not. op

"nd fricitons" IS a physics problem. Its my fingers typing "and friction"
The scorecard it simple.
Gakkai: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 0
Nikkenism: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 2
****
Gakkai: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an insane
cost to members=0
Nikkenism: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an
insane cost to members=1
****
Gakkai: Number of people "excommunciated" =0
Nikkenism: Number of peopel "excommunicated" =Multiple millions
****
Gakkai: number of Court Cases eventually lost by the Gakkai=0
Nikkenism= Number of Courst cases lost by Nikken= ALL of them.
****
Gakkai: number of documents/transcriptions of Daisaku Ikeda saying the
"Dai Gohonzon is a fake"=0
Nikkenism=Number of documents/transcriptions of Nikken saying the "Dai
Gohonzon is a fake=1
****
Gakkai: Number of photos of Daisaku Ikeda surrounded by Geishas and
dancing the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and
saying the photos were altered=0
Nikkenism: Number of photos of Nikken surrounded by Geishas and dancing
the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the
photos were altered=0
****
Gakkai: Number of incidents involving Daisaki Ikeda with Hookers requiring
police intervention=0
Nikkenism=Number of incidents involving Nikken and Hookers requiring
police intervention=1
****
Gakkai: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Daiaku
Ikeda and the Gakkai Presidents are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and
required for others to attain buddhahood. =0
Nikkenism: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Nikken
and the High Priests are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and required for
others to attain buddhahood. =Many
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda in his Gakkai career, left an
important Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the
country=0
Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken in his priestly career, left an
important Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the
country=1
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda as President, has been accused of
striking and beating up members=0
Nikkenism=Number of times Nikken as High Priest has been accused of
striking and beating up accolytes=Numerous
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda has been told by a unbiased Judge
his testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable"--in other words
a LIE=0
Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken was told by an unbiased Judge his
testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable""--in other words a
LIE=at least 1
This list could go on and on.
Anothe version of the list could talk about positive efforts for Kosen Rufu
Gakkai/Daisaku Ikeda= Many
Nikkenism=0
dc

[Yelps]

Post by Yelps
Gakkai: Number of photos of Daisaku Ikeda surrounded by Geishas and
dancing the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and
saying the photos were altered=0
Nikkenism: Number of photos of Nikken surrounded by Geishas and dancing
the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the
photos were altered=1

dc

How silly of me--many more then just '1" photo.


dc

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Yelps

Post by op

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.

I'm sure he has, Kurt. He reported here about his conversations with
the Domei priests that he had several years ago. They apparently
convinced him that NST was bad and the Gakkai was good. Of course
he's talked with the priest at Myohoji since he practiced there for
quite awhile, as did several members of his family.

The reform priests are also not doing enough. The ones I talked to
convinced me they want it to change and thta they are sincere, but they
are still babes in the woods.

Post by op
Really, though, my current disagreement with dc is that he is painting
the Gakkai as all good, except for a few minor flaws, and the
priesthood as all bad, with a capital B, and that is just not right,
and not supported by the facts that are known to us.
op

If one cannot see the difference nd fricitons between people
problems, as in the Gakkai, and altering Nikko Shonin's Warning
articles, then all I can say it "get some perspective."
dc

"nd fricitons" sounds too much like a physics term to me.
But, seriously, if one wanted too, and I was thinking of doing this
sometime, one could make out a scorecard of opinions about what points
NST or SGI has gained or lost given certain actions they have taken, and
see who is ahead and behind.
Or not. op

"nd fricitons" IS a physics problem. Its my fingers typing "and friction"
The scorecard it simple.
Gakkai: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 0
Nikkenism: Number of altered interpretations/translations of the Warning
Articles of Nikko Shonin= 2
****
Gakkai: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an
insane cost to members=0
Nikkenism: Number of High Sanctuaries of True Buddhism destroyed at an
insane cost to members=1
****
Gakkai: Number of people "excommunciated" =0
Nikkenism: Number of peopel "excommunicated" =Multiple millions
****
Gakkai: number of Court Cases eventually lost by the Gakkai=0
Nikkenism= Number of Courst cases lost by Nikken= ALL of them.
****
Gakkai: number of documents/transcriptions of Daisaku Ikeda saying the
"Dai Gohonzon is a fake"=0
Nikkenism=Number of documents/transcriptions of Nikken saying the "Dai
Gohonzon is a fake=1
****
Gakkai: Number of photos of Daisaku Ikeda surrounded by Geishas and
dancing the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and
saying the photos were altered=0
Nikkenism: Number of photos of Nikken surrounded by Geishas and dancing
the Rumba with Booze in hand and then lying about it and and saying the
photos were altered=0
****
Gakkai: Number of incidents involving Daisaki Ikeda with Hookers
requiring police intervention=0
Nikkenism=Number of incidents involving Nikken and Hookers requiring
police intervention=1
****
Gakkai: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Daiaku
Ikeda and the Gakkai Presidents are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and
required for others to attain buddhahood. =0
Nikkenism: Number of published doctrinal quotations, stating that Nikken
and the High Priests are equal to Nichiren Daishonin and required for
others to attain buddhahood. =Many
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda in his Gakkai career, left an
important Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the
country=0
Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken in his priestly career, left an
important Gohonzon on a bathroom Sink in a washroom and then left the
country=1
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda as President, has been accused of
striking and beating up members=0
Nikkenism=Number of times Nikken as High Priest has been accused of
striking and beating up accolytes=Numerous
****
Gakkai: Number of times Daisaku Ikeda has been told by a unbiased Judge
his testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable"--in other words
a LIE=0
Nikkenism: Number of times Nikken was told by an unbiased Judge his
testimony in court was contradictory was "unreliable""--in other words a
LIE=at least 1
This list could go on and on.
Anothe version of the list could talk about positive efforts for Kosen Rufu
Gakkai/Daisaku Ikeda= Many
Nikkenism=0
dc

[Kurt]

Post by Yelps
This list could go on and on.

You can't be serious. This makes you sound like the Ann Coulter of the
Gakkai.

[Juanjo]

Post by Kurt

Post by Yelps
To imagine that the Nikken Sect is one big happy family means you are only
looking at the surface level and are unable to see beneath the surface to
it's seething, reptilian core.
dc

Talk about getting heresay... LOL
I physically work around priests and because of my involvement with the
temple for the past 13 years, really think I have a good perspective.
Priesthood politics aside, Dave has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't even think he's talked to a domei priest, let alone a Nichiren
Shoshu priest in all the years since the split.
If you want real answers, one needs to get off their butt perched in
front of the computer screen and interface with the real world.
--

Dave is just making it as he goes along.