Discussion:
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo & the Nammer scammers
(too old to reply)
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-20 23:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo

Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.

Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.

Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.

Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.

"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.

And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".

And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".

"But what about the oo?" you say...

(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."

But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.

U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.

Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.

Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.

Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.

Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.

Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.

Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀

And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-20 23:30:13 UTC
Permalink
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any direputable business would do the same.

Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict, you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime. And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
Katie Higgins
2016-09-21 01:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any direputable business would do the same.
Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict, you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime. And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
" "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me <<"
This is brilliant, iainx!!

I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of *mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by the organization he has made wealthy)

Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer" with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they have drunk begins to wear off--

Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single "Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete practice?

Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been *poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all... eh?

Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?

Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!

The perfect teaching, The essential practice.

SGI and NST NEVER had it right!

~Katie
Chas.
2016-09-21 05:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Readers will note that Mark Rogow and Katie smear along with what the KGB used to call the "useful idiot" Iain, while I quote the many history books to make my case against the un-indicted war criminals of Nichiren Shu, initiators and co-perpetrators of the Asian Holocaust against the peoples of the Pacific Rim and especially the Chinese people of Nanking.

These war criminals have never been brought to justice.

It is high time that they are hauled into court, because there is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

Justice for the victims of the Rape of Nanking and elsewhere, and prosecution of the war criminals of Nichiren Shu, whose radical militaristic followers and chaplains misled the Japanese people and the royalty into this abomination!

Their distortions of Nichiren Buddhism into Shinto statue worship is the cause, and that distortion continues to be perpetuated by Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins and their "useful idiot", Iain.

Their attacks on the SGI are merely a cover for their perpetual guilt over their complicity in war crimes while the founders of the SGI were cornered by Imperial Way Buddhism and their Shinto Talisman supporting the Pacifc War of Imperial State Zen. Mr. Makiguchi and Mr. Toda were ultimately imprisoned in Tokyo until Mr. Makiguchi's death and Mr. Toda's release at the end of the War, while the forces unleashed by Nichiren Shu (and with the complicity of the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood) ran rampant over China and the Pacific Rim.

here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

and here:

http://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrimes/Cross-section_JapWarCrimes.html

The Rape of Nanking (1937), also known as the Nanjing Massacre

The Bangka Island Massacre (1942): Slaughter of Australian Army Nurses

The Bataan Death March (1942)

The Sandakan Death March (1945)

Murder and cannibalism on the Kokoda Track (1942)

Conscripting women for sexual slavery in Japanese Army brothels (1937-1945)

Mutilation and murder of Dutch civilians in Borneo

Murder and cannibalism - captured American pilots

-Chas
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-21 07:04:30 UTC
Permalink
"This is brilliant, iainx!!

I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of *mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by the organization he has made wealthy)

Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer" with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they have drunk begins to wear off--

Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single "Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete practice?

Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been *poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all... eh?

Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?

Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!

The perfect teaching, The essential practice.

SGI and NST NEVER had it right!

~Katie"


Thanks Katie, indeed the perfect teaching and essential practice!

The Nammer Scammers were straight in with the defamation. It's funny that they are so desperate, even though they know that Mark, you and are Independent and we both are recently ex SGI, have no connection with Nichiren Shu, theycl put this hate filled nonesense in anyway.


How many times have you asked Chas to back up his claims and get him or SGI to do something about these supposed war crimes? How many times have I asked for similar. All we get is attempted discreditation and smear, which is tge SGI corporation and how it tries to defend the only thing that matters to it - money.

Nammer scammers.

Not Nichiren practitioners, just Buddhost Scientology and using the same tactics against opposition or comprtition. They're failing too. It's not working any more, people are waking up and sayong "what am I doing giving ny tine, money and adulation to a Japanese billionaire and how did he get so rich?".

They've lost, simple & perfect has arrived - again! :)

Be well :)
Katie Higgins
2016-09-21 12:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Chas might want to consider what causes he is making -- or why he would claim to be practicing Nichiren's Buddhism and continually post these false, degrading accusations-- attacking followers of Nichiren.

Is this just another "Nammer" phenomena? I suspect it is very much related to being *off* on the Essential practice.

Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo!

Yes, it matters!

And so does telling the truth, Chas :-/

~Katie
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-21 09:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any direputable business would do the same.
Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict, you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime. And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
" "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me <<"
This is brilliant, iainx!!
I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of *mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by the organization he has made wealthy)
Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer" with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they have drunk begins to wear off--
Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single "Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete practice?
Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been *poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all... eh?
Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?
Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!
The perfect teaching, The essential practice.
SGI and NST NEVER had it right!
~Katie
I've been delighted to wotch the movie :

Nichiren and the great mongol invasion although it is Nichiren Shu
oriented about Nichiren story.... And I could hear most of the time more
Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo than Namu Myo-Ho renge kyo. And I say it again the
story is told in the Nichiren Shu version. And some of the temples
federated in Nichiren Shu chant Namu instead of Nam......
Anyway we are still back to what is the school you're following. Myself
I follow the Nichiren Shoshu tradition and I chant Namu Myo-Ho renge Kyo
facing East for the first prayer of morning gongyo three times (Hiki
Daimoku, prolonged Daimoku then three times Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo) and
after that I chant nam Myo-Ho renge kyo. That is what I do, and did for
32 years. I like the solemn of the prolonged daimoku but when it comes
to "Shodaï" I prefer Nam and I like the 6/8 beat rhythm of it .
Best Regards
@lex
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-21 10:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his
crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no
matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any
direputable business would do the same.
Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit
of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is
limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict,
you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business
empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get
retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A
comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both
but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime.
And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
" "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert,
accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U
don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's
so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U,
it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me,
it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert
Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More
expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my
skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me,
me, me <<"
This is brilliant, iainx!!
I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of
*mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the
Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of
the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek
their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek
to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The
Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by
the organization he has made wealthy)
Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer"
with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that
Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to
enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a
parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that
they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they
have drunk begins to wear off--
Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over
the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three
Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter
deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of
recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single
"Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose
the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete
practice?
Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin
chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been
*poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of
Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all...
eh?
Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see
there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one
is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which
is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to
the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?
Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!
The perfect teaching, The essential practice.
SGI and NST NEVER had it right!
~Katie
http://youtu.be/PAhaq7-zNyo
Nichiren and the great mongol invasion although it is Nichiren Shu
oriented about Nichiren story.... And I could hear most of the time more
Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo than Namu Myo-Ho renge kyo. And I say it again the
story is told in the Nichiren Shu version. And some of the temples
federated in Nichiren Shu chant Namu instead of Nam......
Anyway we are still back to what is the school you're following. Myself
I follow the Nichiren Shoshu tradition and I chant Namu Myo-Ho renge Kyo
facing East for the first prayer of morning gongyo three times (Hiki
Daimoku, prolonged Daimoku then three times Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo) and
after that I chant nam Myo-Ho renge kyo. That is what I do, and did for
32 years. I like the solemn of the prolonged daimoku but when it comes
to "Shodaï" I prefer Nam and I like the 6/8 beat rhythm of it .
Best Regards
@lex
There is a very wide choice of schools for Nichiren Buddhism. Before the
2nd World War there were 38, after the 2nd world war, and begining of
the 60ies there were 44......
There is a strong schismatic tendency in Nichiren Buddhism.
SGI have been the most famous "CON ARTIST" of them all!!!
Does anybody here know what happened to the one of the 6 designated
Nichiren's disciples who decided to go preach in the East?????????
Some beleivers told me that he reached Korea.
Best Regards
@lex
Chas.
2016-09-21 12:33:38 UTC
Permalink
I have answered Iain's arguments regarding the mentor and disciple principle seemingly endlessly. We have a fundamental disagreement regarding appreciation and gratitude to the three treasures, of which Iain is apparently barren, since he distorts them to please his priest masters in Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke.

Nothing grows in a barren lot. Iain should notice that he has slid down Mt. Fuji well past his ex-buddy Alex, who is now defying his kinship by pointing out his excessive focus on "Namu" vs. "Nam". Iain does not have to hit bottom, of course.
____________________________________________

What motivates Katie Higgins, Mark Rogow (Buku) and what the KGB calls their "useful idiot", Iain, to go on like this (aside from their inner demons cultivated by slandering the Law through chanting to statues and images), what causes them to attack the SGI so vigorously? They are connected to Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke and other temples and these temples are un-indicted co-conspirators in war crimes.

It's not just that their Nichiren Shu youth militia groups were the incendiary driving force behind the inner officer corps of the Imperial Japanese forces that pushed for expansion into the Asian Pacific War.

It's not just that their Nichiren Shu chaplains were on the front lines with those ravenous militias as they committed war crimes around the Asia Pacific, cheering them on and correcting their style of Zen beheading of innocents, and using bound captives for bayonet and other kinds of practice.

It's that at the very beginning, Nichiren Shu priests created the premise for invasion of China, they were the match that lit the conflagration.

They will deny the truth in their usual incendiary manner, but the two posts below quote many history books and you cannot deny the condemnation of history.

From: "Nichiren Shu (with Kempon Hokke Myomanji Sect) and the Asian Holocaust #1"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.zen/pfHcnbnjHus/B_RYwmkbCgAJ

and from "Nichiren Shu (with Kempon Hokke Myomanji Sect) and the Asian Holocaust #2"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.zen/QgGf39rK6jU/39hhlHcbCgAJ

So the answer to why they attack the SGI?

It's to cover up with flak the fact that Mr. Makiguchi died in prison, while Mr Toda spent the War in prison to be released at the end, for standing up the the imperial Way Buddhism and Imperial State Zen government perpetrating the Pacific War and its countless atrocities, which Nichiren Shu initiated, promulgated and rode the four horses of the Apocalypse straight through.

They can do no other than what they are doing to save the shreds of face that they still possess. That's why.

-Chas.
Katie Higgins
2016-09-21 13:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any direputable business would do the same.
Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict, you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime. And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
" "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me <<"
This is brilliant, iainx!!
I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of *mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by the organization he has made wealthy)
Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer" with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they have drunk begins to wear off--
Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single "Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete practice?
Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been *poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all... eh?
Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?
Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!
The perfect teaching, The essential practice.
SGI and NST NEVER had it right!
~Katie
http://youtu.be/PAhaq7-zNyo
Nichiren and the great mongol invasion although it is Nichiren Shu
oriented about Nichiren story.... And I could hear most of the time more
Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo than Namu Myo-Ho renge kyo. And I say it again the
story is told in the Nichiren Shu version. And some of the temples
federated in Nichiren Shu chant Namu instead of Nam......
Anyway we are still back to what is the school you're following. Myself
I follow the Nichiren Shoshu tradition and I chant Namu Myo-Ho renge Kyo
facing East for the first prayer of morning gongyo three times (Hiki
Daimoku, prolonged Daimoku then three times Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo) and
after that I chant nam Myo-Ho renge kyo. That is what I do, and did for
32 years. I like the solemn of the prolonged daimoku but when it comes
to "Shodaï" I prefer Nam and I like the 6/8 beat rhythm of it .
Best Regards
@lex
So, Alex, where does Nichiren exemplify employing one's personal preferences when it comes to doctrines based on the Lotus Sutra? Nichiren affixed the correct and pepper prefix to Myoho-renge-kyo. It is two characters, Na & Mu-- So when you chant the one essential phrase, practicing the essential teachings, you go with *what YOU like*?

Interesting...

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-21 17:09:01 UTC
Permalink
"I have answered Iain's arguments regarding the mentor and disciple principle seemingly endlessly. We have a fundamental disagreement regarding appreciation and gratitude to the three treasures, of which Iain is apparently barren, since he distorts them to please his priest masters in Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke."

Nope you have not Chas, specifically, I have asked tom

1) Provide Gosho passages to support your assertion that Buddhahood is attained through the way of mentor and disciple, rather than faith alone.

You have not done this because you can't

2) Give a clear and consistent definition of what the term "mentor" means. You have not.

You walked away from that exercise in clear understanding when you realised you were going to lose.

3) Answer the Sutra refutation I provided on your assertion that it doesn't matter that SGI using the term "mentor" to refer to very differnt things creates confusion. You have not.

You cannot rebut the Sutra in this point, again you lost, so you went silent, you ran away.

4) I repeatedly asked you to explain the contradiction between the mentor-disciple teaching and the oassages of Gosho that quote the Nirvana Sutracs reliances. You have not.

Because you cannot.

5) I asked you to explain the contradiction between Nichirencs teachings and frequent refernces to bad teachers distorting the teachings and the SGI advocacy of mentor-disciple as a way of ensuring purity. You have not.

Because you cannot. You again ran away.

6) I asked you to explain how the mentor disciple principle worked if Mr Makaguchi did not have a mentor. I asked you the same of Shakyamuni and Nichiren, referring you directly to On Attainomg Debts of Gratitude. You have not.

Because you cannot. You ran away.

7) I asked you how Daisaku Ikeda can be considered an "eternal mentor for kosen rufu", when he has neither advanced kosen rufu in the period he has been in sole charge of spiritual direction of the SGI, nor grown it's membership but instead halved it's size.

You have not because you cannot. Again you ran away.

8) I asked you to explain how the supposed oneness of mentor-disciple was supposed to work in SGI, when Daisaku Ikeda is clearly and demonstrably at varience woth the mission, beliefs and teaching of Mr Toda. You have not because you cannot, you avoided that questiin altogether - releatedly.


So far from answering any of these points you have rin away from every point when you were pressed for merely offered shallow, shoddy SGI promo guidance reasoning to try and make your case. You left each debate when you couldn't take the heat.

That Chas is not good enough and frankly, if that's the best your combined brains can come up with, you should all be sacked. It's woefully inadequate, very, very poor.

I could at least have some grudging respect for a team that made an effort and had at least some talent in it, no matter how misguided. For you and yours and the pitiful quality of work you turn out, I have none. It's sloppy, the product of lazy, narrow, half hearted minds.

Don't even start on the three treaaures Chas, the 'sangha' you like to try and claim for SGI, I have refuted you doctrinally using both translations of the Gosho - it doesn't and can't exist according to Nichiren, yet still you ignore the supposed founder of the religion you follow to pursue the SGI profit agenda you push.

You have been asked to explain your behaviour and to account for your disregard of a clear, unambiguous statement from Nichiren. You have not because you cannot.

The only disagreement between us is that you practice Buddhism, embrace and spread the Lotus Sutra and follow Nichiren's teaching - you do not, nor does Daisaku Ikeda, nor Mssrs Harada, Wada, Keneda, Kitano amy of the SGI Board nor any of the SGI paid leaders in any country.

I am quite willing to accept that within SGI's membership, there are those who do, to the best of their avility and against increasingly great odds but you Chas and your sloppy corporate team are not amoung them.

We are in total agreement that you practice the way of mentor-disciple and advocate an unshakable bond with Daisaku Ikeda and that you are perfectly wothin your rights to have and advocate for that.

We are also in perfect agreement that your advocacy, the results as evidenced by your posts, disruptive actions bear true and telling accurate testimony to the way of mentor-disciple in action.

I invite you again to address all 8 points above. To provide clear and succinct debate and to stick with each until it is concluded and to stick to the topic.

You will not because you cannot. The "Buddhism of the Sun" is far to bright for you. There is nowhere to hide no confusion to be exploited from the vague hazy statements you seek refuge in.

Put simply, you have lost. You know it, SGI knows it. Lool, when you have to start pulling videos and back peddling on a carefully thought through corporate plan because if a few independent practitioners in a discussion forum, you know things are bad.

In the business speak you might better understand, you have lost control of the agends, lost the initiative. You are constantly in the backfoot, having to react because it's not you or SGI that's setting the agenda. At each stage you have had no idea of what's coming next.

And the irony of all that? You still haven't worked out why that's the case, you still haven't understood the practical implications of the verse section of the 16th Chapter.

Put simply, we can see you and with your eyes but because you don't have faith and don't practice, you cannot see us.

That my friend is the requisite variety that you lack. That is why tou arefailing and that is why you will continue to fail. The only way around that problem would be to practice as we do but if you do that, you won't be doing what you are doing. You are in a no ein situation - it's Catch 22.

Sutra wins, it always does - how many times have I tried to tell you?

Save yourself pain and suffering, take the 150 days challenge. Regain your faith and restore your sight. You'll lament your actions, that's understandable but with the Buddha to guide you that will soon pass as you see their positive use.

Like all Nammer Scammers, you'll catch on and catch up, the only question is when, not if.

Be well :)
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-21 21:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
The Nammer scammers will most likely spam this thread - Chas and his crew. It will be hateful, smearing, dishonest as it always is but no matter. They've got profits to protect and salaries to earn, any direputable business would do the same.
Let's just hope they can quickly get beyond the fast talk in pursuit of a cheap buck and focus on what's really important eh? All life is limited, that's the nature of the world, cause and effect is strict, you can't outrun it, which is what Buddhism is all about. Business empires crest and fall, even religious businesses. People get retired, then live out their last days. Was it worth it? A comfortable life or a comfortable self? Great if you can have both but if you've got to choose? I know my choice, the latter everytime. And for that? Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple. :)
" "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me <<"
This is brilliant, iainx!!
I would add that this seemingly subtle difference is the marrow of *mindlessness*-- it allows for the ease of chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and INSERTING one's own mind , not at all *mindful* of the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha or even Nichiren, "Nammers" seek their own desires, goals and dreams. -- and even worse, "Nammers" seek to unit with the spirit of the slanderer, Ikeda, "The Mentor"-(according to Ikeda, of course-- self-proclaimed, promoted by the organization he has made wealthy)
Of course one can never attain perfect enlightenment as a "Nammer" with not so much as a single thought of that goal. Recall that Nichiren taught that so long as one does not embark on the path to enlightenment , one will have the devil king of the 6th heaven as a parent. So, there's SGI's "Santa Claus*-put into the simple terms that they may be able to comprehend once the effects of the poison they have drunk begins to wear off--
Also recall how SGI has streamlined and simplified the *practice* over the past decade until it has no resemblance to any of the three Nichiren taught in the "Four Debts of Gratitude"-- Yup! Juryo chapter deleted- means *no more abbreviated practice* and no repetition of recitations of the sutra, so no more slow daimoku-- not a single "Na-MU" escapes their lips anymore. So---- how long before they lose the small fortune they achieved from sincere , albeit incomplete practice?
Thank you again for pointing out that all one needs to do is to begin chanting correct daimoku to a blank wall to realize they have been *poisoned*! And to think how difficult it is to convince any of Ikeda's *fearless* lion cubs to try this--- Not so bold, after all... eh?
Between the cowardice and the stupidity it is getting easier to see there is one kind of actual proof within SGIkeda-- the proof that one is slandering Myoho-renge-kyo-- *disregarding* it to be precise, which is to say disregarding the Lotus Sutra. How can there be devotion to the True Object of devotion under these circumstances?
Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!
The perfect teaching, The essential practice.
SGI and NST NEVER had it right!
~Katie
http://youtu.be/PAhaq7-zNyo
Nichiren and the great mongol invasion although it is Nichiren Shu
oriented about Nichiren story.... And I could hear most of the time more
Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo than Namu Myo-Ho renge kyo. And I say it again the
story is told in the Nichiren Shu version. And some of the temples
federated in Nichiren Shu chant Namu instead of Nam......
Anyway we are still back to what is the school you're following. Myself
I follow the Nichiren Shoshu tradition and I chant Namu Myo-Ho renge Kyo
facing East for the first prayer of morning gongyo three times (Hiki
Daimoku, prolonged Daimoku then three times Nam Myo-Ho Renge kyo) and
after that I chant nam Myo-Ho renge kyo. That is what I do, and did for
32 years. I like the solemn of the prolonged daimoku but when it comes
to "Shodaï" I prefer Nam and I like the 6/8 beat rhythm of it .
Best Regards
@lex
So, Alex, where does Nichiren exemplify employing one's personal preferences when it comes to doctrines based on the Lotus Sutra? Nichiren affixed the correct and pepper prefix to Myoho-renge-kyo. It is two characters, Na & Mu-- So when you chant the one essential phrase, practicing the essential teachings, you go with *what YOU like*?
Interesting...
~Katie
Yes I don't like SGI, because they slander the Lotus Sutra, the Law, the
Buddha.
Nichiren often stated the 7 or 5 characters .... Think about it. There
may be a reason.
I do Namu 3 times a day and as much I can I chant Nam million times.
Therotically only one Daimoku is enough.
Did you watch the movie?
I don't insult your School, so don't insult Nichiren Shoshu.
BTW Why don't you chant Namu Shakiamuni Butsu.
That should be consistent in front of your statues.
Be well
Best Regards
@lex
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-21 23:33:46 UTC
Permalink
"Yes I don't like SGI, because they slander the Lotus Sutra, the Law, the
Buddha.
Nichiren often stated the 7 or 5 characters .... Think about it. There
may be a reason.
I do Namu 3 times a day and as much I can I chant Nam million times.
Therotically only one Daimoku is enough.
Did you watch the movie?
I don't insult your School, so don't insult Nichiren Shoshu.
BTW Why don't you chant Namu Shakiamuni Butsu.
That should be consistent in front of your statues.
Be well
Best Regards
@lex"

Thanks Alex, though I am surprised at the statue comment to Katie, she has clarified this several times and clarified that she does not worship statues.

But perhaps you might consider that "insults to schools" are a little tribal and misplaced in terms of Nichiren Buddhism, famously Nichiren stated tgat he was not the founder of any school and with good reason. You yourself have pointed out that sectarianism has riven the Nichiren community, it is tge rise of schools and their adherants attachment to their brand that has blocked the Law as much as they have preserved it.

The only way I can see around that is for Nichiren practioners of all persuasions and none to take a faith first approsch, which means loosening attachment to institutions.

There maybe a place for such but history has shoen us just how divisive institutions have become. From thus has come the likes if the SGI, the purpose of which is to ram home the point by taking it to it's logical conclusion.

SGI's demise will take us to the very end of that cul de sac. It is now time for the Nichiren community to grow up into maturity.

Nichiren Shoshu must also bear responsibility for what it loosed on the world Alex, just as much as Daisaku Ikeda. Good will come of it, for sure but that good will not exist in the shape of what has gone before.

Even though temple numbers are stable in their total, whilst SGI's have declined, that's cold comfort. The fact remains that global population has risen. If you were gettjng paid the same amount for playing a gig as 28 years ago, you would not be saying you'd were earning the same as you were 28 years ago!!!

It is the same for all the sects bar perhaps Nichiren Shu, whicj may actually be growing, albeit very, very slowly and not enough to keep pace with population growth.

So the question is not which school thrives and which does not, it is rather how directly does the Law survive, spread and thrive? And for that there is only one answer, which is the single mind of faith, a concept that includes all sincere Nichiren practitioners of all schools and none.

Others will disagree with me, because they may say that this or that school does this or that wrong thing. However from my perspective, that in itself is an error, to confuse the group identity with that of the individual.

It is the same error that individual practitioners fall into when they have too much attachment for their school. Essentially, at such times, their mind overlays their school on top of the Gohonzon, obscuring it.

There is not one jot of scriptural support within the Sutra to support such a sectarian view, there is only faith and the Sutra itself. We would fo well to remember that.


That there will be groupings, is supported in the Sutra, that is delineated in the Emergence from the Earth chapter as is Independent practice. However, what we do not see is the Bodhisattvas of the Earth fighting amongst themselves, whilst the Law perishes.

Even I, with all my critiscism of SGI and their Nammers, do not discount that there may be sincere and correctly practicing SGI members, though I absolutely discount it's paid leadership, who quite openly and clearly advocate something that is no even Buddhism and worse, slanders the Sutra.

When numbers of all sects fall further behind, at that time, they will come to understand that their divisions, their identities and boundaries are the problem and will find a way yo transcend those boundaries. Those who do not, will perish. It is that simple.

Meanwhile, the dawning realisation of that has already begun to awaken outside of sects and perhaps within some. The Law doesn't wait, it has it's rhythm. You're either on the beat or not.

Personally, I hope you are Alex.

Be well :)



My own position
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-21 23:38:22 UTC
Permalink
"I think there exist people who chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with sincere intention and conversely there are people who chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo with false intention. and obviously vice versa."

This is an excellent point. Thank you. :)
Chas.
2016-09-22 06:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Why statues are not to be chanted to -
Since SGI is wrong about the identity and nature of the Eternal Buddha why would you believe it is correct about anything else?
The entire thrust of the Rissho Ankoku Ron is that the Treasure of the Buddha is Shakyamuni and the Treasure of the Law is Myoho renge kyo (Lotus Sutra).
Make a quote, please.

Taking just the first few horrible translations of the Gosho that you quote to "prove" your fictitious points...
Nichiren says in "Reply to Lady Nichinyo": "I for the first time reveal, as a banner of the spread of the Hokkekyo the Great Mandala which even Nagarjuna, Vasubandhu, and so on, and Tendai, Myoraku, and so on did not reveal. This is not at all something which I, Nichiren made myself. It is the Object of Worship which is from the print block of the Great Muni, the World Honored One within the Stupa of Taho and the Separate-Body Buddhas."
Clearly, the Daishonin inscribed the Gohonzon as taught to him by the Great Muni.
Your text is a profound forgery and utter uglification of the true text of the Gosho, written to Nichinyo.

From "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon", WND I, pp. 831-832:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/101#para-1

. How wondrous it is that, around two hundred years and more
. into the Latter Day of the Law, I was the first to reveal
. as the banner of propagation of the Lotus Sutra this great
. mandala that even those such as Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu,
. T’ien-t’ai and Miao-lo were unable to express. This mandala
. is in no way my invention. It is the object of devotion
. that depicts Shakyamuni Buddha, the World-Honored One,
. seated in the treasure tower of Many Treasures Buddha, and
. the Buddhas who were Shakyamuni’s emanations as perfectly
. as a print matches its woodblock. Thus the five characters
. of the Lotus Sutra’s title are suspended in the center,
. while the four heavenly kings are seated at the four
. corners of the treasure tower. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures,
. and the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are
. side by side at the top. Seated below them are the
. bodhisattvas, including Universal Worthy and Manjushrī, and
. the voice-hearers, including Shāriputra and Maudgalyāyana.
. [Beside them are] the gods of the sun and moon, the devil
. king of the sixth heaven, the dragon king, and an asura. In
. addition, the wisdom kings Immovable and Craving-Filled
. take up their stations to the south and north. The evil and
. treacherous Devadatta and the ignorant dragon king’s
. daughter form a group. Not only the Mother of Demon
. Children and the ten demon daughters, who are evil demons
. that sap the lives of people throughout the major world
. system, but also the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva
. Hachiman, and the seven reigns of the heavenly gods and
. five reigns of the earthly gods, who are the guardian
. deities of Japan—all the various great and small gods, that
. is, the main gods, are ranged in rows. How then could the
. remaining subordinate gods be left out? The “Treasure
. Tower” chapter states, “[Shakyamuni Buddha used his
. transcendental powers to] lift all the members of the great
. assembly up into the air.”
.
. Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great
. sages, and, in general, all the various beings of the two
. worlds and the eight groups who appear in the
. “Introduction” chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this
. Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters
. of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes
. that they inherently possess. This is the object of devotion.
.
. This is what is meant when the sutra says “the true aspect
. of all phenomena.” Miao-lo stated: “The true aspect
. invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all phenomena
. invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors
. invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten Worlds
. invariably manifest in life and its environment.” It is
. also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect
. is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. The Great
. Teacher Dengyō said, “A single moment of life comprising
. the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless
. joy; this Buddha has forsaken august appearances.”
. Therefore, this Gohonzon shall be called the great mandala
. never before known; it did not appear until more than 2,220
. years after the Buddha’s passing.

Your priests have corrupted this beautiful description and will suffer the ages in Avichi hel for it, and now you, too, for climbing on the bandwagon with them. They wanted to worship Shakyamuni as a god, because they think so little of themselves. They wanted to worship stupas, like the Hinayana believers of the Pali canon. This was the original error that led to statue worship, abandoning the teachings and taking up with images of men as your object of worship.
"Thus it was revealed that Shakyamuni had long been the Buddha since the eternal past, and it became clear that various Buddhas in other worlds were all manifestations of Shakyamuni Buddha..[ ] now, however, as Shakyamuni was proved to be the Eternal Buddha, those Buddhas in the Flower Garland Sutra, or Buddhas in the Hodo, Hannya, or Great Sun Buddha sutras all became subordinates of Shakyamuni Buddha." (Kaimoku Sho, p. 174, translated by Kyotsu Hori, 1987)
"When Shakyamuni Buddha revealed that he had gained enlightenment in the far distant past and had since then been constantly in the world, it became apparent that all the other Buddhas were emanations of Shakyamuni....but now it became apparent that Vairocana Buddha of the Kegon Sutra and various Buddhas of the Hodo, Hannya and Dainichi sutras are in fact all followers of Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW V.2, p.149)
Here is the actual quote from "The Opening of the Eyes", WND I, p. 256:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-187

. When Shakyamuni Buddha revealed that he had gained
. enlightenment in the far distant past, it became apparent
. that all the other Buddhas were emanations of Shakyamuni.
. When the Buddha preached the earlier sutras and the first
. half, or theoretical teaching, of the Lotus Sutra, the
. other Buddhas were pictured as standing on an equal footing
. with Shakyamuni, after completing their respective
. practices and disciplines. Therefore, the people who take
. one or another of these Buddhas as their object of devotion
. customarily look down on Shakyamuni Buddha. But now it
. becomes apparent that Vairochana Buddha, who is described
. in the Flower Garland Sutra as being seated on a lotus
. pedestal, and the various Buddhas who appear in the sutras
. of the Correct and Equal and the Wisdom periods, such as
. the Mahāvairochana Sutra, are all in fact followers of
. Shakyamuni Buddha.

There is simply no end to the distortions you can vomit forth, perjured for you evil purpose: to support your Hindu/Shinto practice of worshiping Shakyamuni as a god, which he would himself decry. Shakyamuni was added to the Hindu pantheon of gods to the end of enfolding and crushing the life out of the corrupted practice of Buddhism after it had passed into the East.

Your Middle Day of the Law practice of worshiping statues is NOT for the era Nichiren Daishonin, it is the hollow and ghostly practice of the dead. The practice of the Latter Day of the Law is to chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to the Gohonzon, not the image of any person, Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.

As I made clear earlier from this passage of the "Immeasurable Meanings Sutra", pp. 12-13, which is preached during the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra and is concurrent with it and not previous to the Lotus Sutra, and which is in no way provisional or to be discarded in any way. In fact the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho reference the true aspect, and without this definition, THEY WOULD BE INCOMPLETE!

Here's the quote that destroys all your statue worshiping, I have highlighted the key phrase so that you cannot miss it (although I fear your mind cannot read it):

. “When bodhisattvas have in this manner observed the
. beginning and end of these four aspects and have understood
. them in their entirety, then they will clearly perceive
. that all phenomena, never abiding from one instant to
. the next, are constantly being born anew and passing into
. extinction, and then they will immediately perceive the
. true aspect of birth, abiding, change, and extinction.
.
. “Once they have gained this perception, then they must turn
. to the capacities, natures, and desires of living beings.
. Because such natures and desires are immeasurable in
. variety, the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable;
. and because the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable,
. its meanings are likewise immeasurable. THESE IMMEASURABLE
. MEANINGS ARE BORN FROM A SINGLE LAW, AND THIS LAW IS
. WITHOUT ASPECT. WHAT IS WITHOUT ASPECT IS DEVOID OF ASPECT
. AND DOES NOT TAKE ON ASPECT. NOT TAKING ON ASPECT, BEING
. WITHOUT ASPECT, IT IS CALLED THE TRUE ASPECT.
.
. “When bodhisattvas mahasattva rest and abide in this
. understanding of the true aspect of all phenomena, then the
. pity and compassion that they put forth will be based on
. clear understanding and not groundless, and they will be
. truly capable of rescuing living beings from the sufferings
. that they undergo. And once they have rescued them from
. suffering, they will preach the Law for them and enable
. living beings to enjoy ease and delight.

Santai or the Three Truths can only be found in the Lotus Sutra, this is one of the glories of the Lotus Sutra. "The truth of non-substantiality, the truth of temporary existence, and the truth of the Middle Way." from the SGI Dictionary:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/183

The images of human beings are the images of their Temporary Existence alone, their impermanence.

I am impermanent and will vanish from the world, this is my destiny from birth: to be born is to die, that is the guarantee of the four sufferings. Birth, aging, sickness and death.

And yet, like an electron that has a particle and a wave function, I am also Non-Substantial and that was true before my birth, during my aging, sickness and after my death. In fact I am dying now, cells that were crucial to my function ar born and then die all the time. I am also like a wave.

In all those phases of my life I am in the Middle Way, the unification of the Three Truths.

Images of living beings are images of impermanence alone, and like "the Tripitaka teaching and the connecting teaching do not reveal the truth of the Middle Way and therefore lack the three truths," (from the definition of Santai) ... they do not possess the "true aspect."

The highest object of worship, the Gohonzon possesses the "true aspect" in the fact that it is an arrangement of characters and does not look like you or me or anyone you know. This is how it can reflect ALL THE LIVING BEINGS, not just here, but everywhere that life has or will develop in the ten directions and the three existences of past, present and future.

All living being possess the true aspect and they are all Buddhas, like the characters of an enormous version of the Lotus Sutra. However, not even the images of the Lord of Teachings, Shakyamuni or the Lord of Practice, Nichiren Daishonin reflect anything other than impermanence.

Only the Gohonzon reflects the true aspect. It is the highest object of worship and all others are pitiful in their aspect, by comparison: why would anyone chant the daimoku, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to any other object of worship?

How dishonorable!

-Chas.
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-22 10:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
"I think there exist people who chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with sincere intention and conversely there are people who chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo with false intention. and obviously vice versa."
This is an excellent point. Thank you. :)
I approve this message!!!
@lex
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-22 21:06:21 UTC
Permalink
"good morning Ian,
Once again I'll try to break the silence of my lurking on this newsgroup
where the fun never stops. as also lot of confusion....... I am amazed
by so much hate expressed, that a few days ago I posted two quotes ie :
(> "When in public debate, although the teachings that you advocate are
Post by i***@gmail.com
perfectly consistent with the truth, you should never on that account be
impolite or abusive, or display a conceited attitude. Such conduct would
be disgraceful. Order your thoughts, words and actions carefully and be
prudent when you meet with others in debate."
Nichiren Daishonin:Teaching, Practice and Proof (MW 4, p 111 ~)
Best Regards
@lex
" There should be no discrimination among those who propagate the five
characters of Myoho-renge-kyo in the latter day of the law, be they men
or women. Where they not the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, they could not
chant the daimoku."

Nichiren Daishonin
THE TRUE ASPECT OF ALL PHENOMENA )
I have to admit that the amount of insults on the newsgroup is sometimes
very contagious.
I have nothing against Shakiamuni statues, and I personally think that
it a testimony of the greatness of Buddhist spirituality. my comment to
Katie was not an insult, just a remark, as at my home when I'm taking
the stairs to go to my altar there is a landing floor in the middle of
the stairs where there is a wonderful Buddha head, and at that stage of
the ascension I often think, often say : Namu Shakiamuni Butsu. At the
foot of this head there is a Thaï Hinayana prayer scriptures book used
by Thaï monks.
So I am a little bit surprised to see all these discussion about Nam and
Namu, but I've been rejoiced to read from member Jigoku Kitsugi : "I
remember when I was doing research on Nam and Namu, a Kempon Hokke
priest said if it causes strife it's not worth the argument, the faith
in one's heart is what matters."
To be much deeper I think that a part from Chas here everybody is in
anger against SGI,
and in a certain way everybody is throwing the baby with the dirty bath
water.
Specially when it comes so very often to quote SGI/NST as being the same
thing.
This started to grow in 1979, and have been incubating since the crash,
and is still going on.
Therefore it reminds me of people eating their piece of the cadaver to
keep their piece of the heritage.
Regarding your remarks about the growing and decrease of members I'll
say that you cannot think about that the same way that you have analyzed
the phenomena about SGI. Buddhist temples, are part of a culture, family
values, geographical proximity...............
And let us emphasize that in the history of Nichiren Shoshu there were
times with no more than 30 priests and monks in Taisekiji.
I've been glad to reply to your post
And I wish you a good day
Best Regards
@lex"

Good day to you also Alex! And thank you for your good wishes. Please accept mine also.

As you know, I deeply respect you and your practice of faith.

I think you are right in that we are in danger of throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water and I can be swayed by the often angry exchanges here.

When I started this thread, I did not intend to disparage genuine believers who follow the Law, even those who practice sincerely in SGI. Rather, I wanted to draw line, a distiction between those who have appropriated the core artifacts of Nichiren's teaching and used them to prop up their cynical profit driven non-Buddhist promo teachings of mentor-disciple and those who practice Daimoku. These are tge oeopke I call Nammers but tgat coukd easiky be expanded to any similar "practitioners" chanting any variant and seeking to do as SGI's mentor and leaders have done.

To do this, I focussed on Namu and on intention, which was the start of my post.

In all but SGI, Namu is always written Namu. So it seemed appropriate to dwell on that. I accept the pronunciation differs as Jigoku points out from region to region and also that intention is the key element, whether one chants Namu. The heart is important.

I was being playful in my post to make a serious point and have been really heartened by the discussion that ensued. Every contributor apart from Chas has added something valuable to that discussion, so thank you all! I have really appreciated it, as my response to Jigoku shows.

On a related note, because of SGI's use of 'daimoku' chanted not with any aim to contemplate or master the mind but as simply an empty ritual where members are encouraged to look outwards to create some weird bond with Dausaku Ikeda, that practice, for those people, has become tainted by that association.

Therefore, to provide a route back to faith for those people and to free them from that association, adoption of Namu, with a focus on it's meaning, will enable them to grasp the Law correctly.

Making the change requires that they become mindful of what they are doing and why. That the Daimoku should be abke to provide it's own reset button in this way is awesome. At one fell swoop, those poor SGI folk can start to engage correctly. If they do that, I have no doubt that The Buddha and The Law will take it from there.

I had no intention of offending your practice nor sweeping any sincere practioners into that mix. Of course, I chanted Nam for many years and like you understand it's significance.

Ulimately, it is a personal decision. Mine is that since in written form in Japanese Namu is always Namu, a simplification to make that the pronunciation too, is desirable. Rather than taking the Nam pronunciation and then from there translating that into written form as Nam "so members don't get confused" at chanting something different to what's written.

If one searches in English on Namu, one readily comes upon the correct meaning, from a variety of sources. The same is not true of Nam, which creates questions and misunderstandings. It's a barrier.

This isn't a problem in Japanese and the questions about differing pronucuations are also readily understood.

For new people especially, why create unnecesaary confusion? If SGI actually taught faith and Buddhism it wouldn't be so much of an issue but they don't. Their scroll and chant are just there as decoration to their Ikeda veneration ceremonies, which in turn is only there to make money.

That's why SGI think it OK to redifine the 'daimoku', reinerpret the Lotus Sutra and do as they like with the mandala. It's a cynical use of those artifacts that taints them in the minds of those who've been subject to that religious commercialisation process.

Thank you for taking the time to post your insightful comments. You always make me think! :D

Have a great evening!

Be well :)
Chas.
2016-09-23 03:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Interesting to watch the rapprochement between Alex of Nichiren Shoshu and the Iain Shoshu wing of the Rogow-Higgins Shu offshoot of Kempon Hokke of Nichiren Shu.

Next thing you know Nichiren Shoshu will be chanting to statues, too.
_________________________________________
The most perverse sect at the time of Nichiren was Tendai [Mikkyo] which mixed Lotus Sutra Buddhism and Shingon. Today, we have a similar problem but NST and SGI ...
[snip]

You are projecting. It is you and your Shinto-ized version of Hinduistic statue-worshiping distortion of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism that is clearly a corruption. Nichiren Daishonin declared the Gohonzon as the supreme object of worship throughout Jambudvipa, not your pictures and statues. They do not possess the true aspect.

From "The True Aspect of All Phenomena", WND I, p. 383-385:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-3

... NO ONE BUT NICHIREN has ever revealed teachings like these.
... Though T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyō knew about them in
... their hearts, they never put them into words. They went
... about their lives keeping this knowledge to themselves. And
... there was good reason for this. The Buddha had not
... entrusted them with the task, the time had not yet come,
... and they had not been the Buddha’s disciples from the
... distant past. Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices,
... and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth cannot only appear during the
... first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law and
... spread the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, the essence
... of all phenomena, BUT ALSO GIVE CONCRETE FORM TO THE
... CEREMONY OF THE TWO BUDDHAS SEATED SIDE BY SIDE IN THE
... TREASURE TOWER. The reason is that what they are to spread
... and give concrete form to is none other than the teaching
... of the actual three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life in the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching.
...

1. "No one but Nichiren" has revealed these teachings, not even Shakyamuni, Lord of Teachings, who is negatively included with all others in the phrase "no one".

It was no one else's mission, but Nichiren Daishonin to reveal the highest truth hidden at the heart of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin explains this in various other places as due to the time, however, it is also due to who Nichiren Daishonin is.

Nichiren Daishonin is the man for that moment, who turns that wheel that makes the new era of the Latter Day of the Law or Mappo, by revealing the truth that no one else can reveal.

This is the man Iain calls a "latter commentator", and who I call Daishonin or True Buddha. Nichiren Daishonin is the revealer, not the commentator, oddly, that role is left to Shakyamuni who predicted Nichiren Daishonin's revelation of the heart of the Lotus Sutra: the heart of the highest teaching.

The heart of the highest teaching that he reveals is not indicated directly in any quote in the Lotus Sutra, such that you can actually logically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what Nichiren Daishonin reveals is the truth.

The truth of the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, as in all far lesser religious truths, is not logically deduced or induced, but is based on faith alone: however, in both the Western and Eastern worlds, Reason includes both Logic AND Faith.

Hence, faith-based logic is reasonable, unless you are without faith, then that logic is not reasonable and makes no sense whatsoever.

Faith in this case implies practice, you have to chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to come to believe in it and experience the result to gain faith.

2. However, before you can have faith in the power of the daimoku, you had to have faith in Nichiren Daishonin, who reveals that highest truth, you would have to have faith in the mentor, that he is revealing to you, the disciple, the absolute truth and nothing else. Otherwise, your practice of the Lotus Sutra would be Tendai, and simple recitation of its chapters to your statues.

Not having faith in Nichiren Daishonin, since you had never heard of him, you had to have faith in the mentor that introduced you, or taught you to chant, or led the first district meeting you went to, or ... whoever the bodhisattva was: that person had faith in the daimoku, the Gohonzon and hence, that Nichiren Daishonin was in fact, completely right! The disciple first receives faith in the veracity of Nichiren Daishonin (or an echo of it) from their mentor.

3. "Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices, and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among the Bodhisattvas of the Earth ..." "... also give concrete form to the ceremony of the two Buddhas seated side by side in the treasure tower." That concrete form is the Gohonzon, the highest object of worship.

Shakyamuni not only cannot reveal the highest teaching ... also, he cannot enscribe the Gohonzon.

Why? Because it is not his mission given by the eternal Buddha. That was given to the very first of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, Nichiren Daishonin, as the embodiment of Superior Practices, or Jogyo.

This means you either trust what Nichiren Daishonin says and choose the Gohonzon as your highest object of worship to chant the daimoku to, or distrust Nichiren Daishonin and chant the daimoku to your statues. You will however, have to choose which path to take, with hell to pay upon your mistaken choice.

... THEREFORE, THE TWO BUDDHAS, SHAKYAMUNI AND MANY TREASURES,
... ARE BUDDHAS WHO ARE FUNCTIONS [OF MYOHO-RENGE-KYO]. IT IS
... MYOHO-RENGE-KYO THAT IS THE TRUE BUDDHA. This is what is
... described in the sutra as “the Thus Come One’s secret and
... his transcendental powers.” THE “THUS COME ONE’S SECRET”
... REFERS TO THE ENTITY OF THE BUDDHA’S THREE BODIES, AND IT
... REFERS TO THE TRUE BUDDHA. “His transcendental powers”
... refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers
... to provisional Buddhas. A COMMON MORTAL IS AN ENTITY OF THE
... THREE BODIES, AND A TRUE BUDDHA. A Buddha is a function of
... the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case,
... though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the
... three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
... sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. ON THE
... CONTRARY, IT IS COMMON MORTALS WHO ENDOW HIM WITH THE THREE
... VIRTUES.
...

4. "Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha."

Shakyamuni (and Taho) are functions of the eternal Buddha, Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which we invoke in the daimoku.

Is that crystal clear? If you chant the daimoku, you have to have faith that Nichiren Daishonin is correct, otherwise Myoho-Renge-Kyo would not be the eternal Buddha: and if you accept that, then Shakyamuni would not be a function of Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

You cannot have it both ways, you must give up the supremacy of Shakyamuni and stop chanting to images of him, since you cannot chant the highest teaching hidden in the Lotus Sutra that was revealed by Nichiren Daishonin unless you agree with him on this completely central point. Stop chanting to functions, and chant to the Gohonzon.

5. These three phrases (a through c, below) refer to the common mortal, or true Buddha, which Nichiren Daishonin is, and also you and I as well as every common mortal. Common mortals in the Mappo era, after Nichiren Daishonin revealed the truth, are also Bodhisattvas of the Earth, according to Josei Toda.

Here's the proof of Nichiren Daishonin's point.

a. '“Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha.'

b. "A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha."


c. "On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him [Shakyamuni] with the three virtues."

6. These two phrases (d and e) refer to provisional Buddhas like Shakyamuni, who are functions of the three bodies of the true Buddha.

d. '“His transcendental powers” refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas.'

e. 'A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not so.'

... The “Thus Come One” is explained clearly in T’ien-t’ai’s
... commentary as follows: “The Thus Come One is a general
... designation for the Buddhas of the ten directions and the
... three existences, for the two Buddhas, the three Buddhas,
... the true Buddha, and provisional Buddhas.” THE “TRUE
... BUDDHA” HERE MEANS COMMON MORTALS, WHEREAS “PROVISIONAL
... BUDDHAS” MEANS BUDDHAS. However, because of the difference
... between ordinary people and Buddhas that stems from the
... disparity between delusion and enlightenment, ordinary
... people are unaware that they are endowed with both the
... entity and the functions of the three bodies.
...

'The “true Buddha” here means common mortals, whereas “provisional Buddhas” means Buddhas.'

That is another direct quote making this very point again. Clear and straightforward and unmistakable.

The common mortal is the true Buddha, whereas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures in all their eternal glory as inscribed on the Gohonzon, are functions of the entity that is any common mortal enveloped in his or her delusion.

That means that if a statue worshiper really wanted to enshrine a more proper image to chant to, it would be the picture of a drunk or a hooker on the street: better that, than just a FUNCTION of that true Buddha, that very human being.

This is why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.

All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.

This also, BTW explains that passage with all of the negations from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

'his body neither existing nor not existing,
neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color'

This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.

... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...

Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.

... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...

Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit"

"an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."

However, there is hope even for them, because:

'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'

... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?

___________________________________________________________
Let's look into "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon", and see what Nichiren teaches us.
"This mandala is in no way my invention. It is the object of devotion that depicts Shakyamuni Buddha, the World Honored One, seated in the treasure tower of Many treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas who were Shakyamuni's emanations as perfectly as a print matches its print block."
Your argument is a non sequitor and is sign of your fallacious reasoning and mental corruption. I never claimed that Nichiren Daishonin invented the Gohonzon, which is a depiction of the ceremony in the air at the moment that the Law is passed from the mentor (Shakyamuni) to the disciples (Bodhisattvas of the Earth, chiefly Jogyo Superior Practices, who is Nichiren Daishonin).

Nichiren Daishonin is the common mortal, who is the true Buddha, as are you and myself. Shakyamuni is a function of our true Buddhahood, this is what Nichiren Daishonin says. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, you cannot believe in the daimoku, which Nichiren Daishonin revealed and that you have to take on faith. He sadi it, I didn't, why do you want to thwart what he says so clearly with all this flak? Just accept it.

According to the Ongi Kuden and thus Nichiren Daishonin, the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, son of "the grandfather".

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15

... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: In
... this passage we learn about the Buddha of the original
... state [that is, the Buddha of limitless joy]. “Grandfather”
... is another name for the Dharma-realm. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the “Expedient Means” chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as “grandfather.” Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.
...
... The word “wheel-turning” refers to the phases of birth,
... abiding, change, and extinction. The words “sage king”
... refer to the element of the mind. These three factors,
... appearance, nature, and entity, are the father and mother
... of all the Buddhas of the three existences of past,
... present, and future.
...
... Now, when Nichiren and his followers chant
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they are acting as father and mother
... of the Buddhas of the three existences, as their
... grandfather, the wheel-turning sage king.

That passage refers to this one, the one and only reference to "the grandfather", where the son and father of Shakyamuni, Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, attains enlightenment when "the Law of the buddhas finally appeared before him" :

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... “Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme perfect
... p.157enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
... householder’s life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... “Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a hundred,
... thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects, all
... together surrounded the sons and followed them to the place
... of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the thus
... come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer alms,
... pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they arrived,
... they bowed before his feet, touching their heads to the
... ground.

Aside from that, who knows, I don't. As far as I can tell, the eternal Buddha has no person otherwise identified in the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni attained enlightenment after his father.

At any rate, who was first hardly matters, unless you want to worship a statue of the first enlightened one.

I am satisfied that the Buddha leading our regiment of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth is Nichiren Daishonin, AKA Jogyo Superior Practices. He is the mentor whose Gosho I have made my mentor. I practice as he says and only that way. I worship no person and images of no person.

I worship the Gohonzon of the True Aspect of all Phenomena, which, BTW is a topic none of you have touched on, although I have elucidated it fully for your edification.
"It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo.[Lotus sutra Chap.2] The Great Teacher Dengyo said, "A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy. this Buddha has forsaken august appearances." [The Treatise on the Secret and Sacred Teachings]
Are you listening to yourself? The Buddha of Limitless Joy is without aspect, just as I quoted.

Not a statue of Shakyamuni. Get it?
Do you need page#'s-- not sure which text you have.
IF Nichiren were the Original Buddha, teacher of Shakyamuni, WHY wouldn't he claim credit for the SOURCE of the Gohonzon as "his own invention"?
OR REVEAL the identity you claim is is TRUE identity?
Didn't claim that. Putting words in my mouth is lying. Don't do that.

All common mortals are the true Buddha, led by Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren Daishonin is the leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, AKA Jogyo.
With your own presumptions,You, Chas are identifying Nichiren as a cunning, duplicitous teacher-- when it is your Sensei who has earned that title a million times over!!
This is a pile of crap and wierd supposition, avoid it Katie.
And that is the crux of the matter. You lost your true mind before you posted your first comment on this site---such is the fate of those who "follow evil teachers".
[snip the rest.]
_________________________________________________________
How fortunate that we can possess and chant to an *authentic* Gohonzon inscribed by Nichiren's own hand...
These Gohonzon were received from the hands of an entire line of priests that betrayed Nichiren Daishonin and turned to Shinto-ized Hinduistic cult worship of images that Shakyamuni himself would have spurned, and ancient practices that were before Nichiren Daishonin turned the wheel to create the new era: of the Latter Day of the Law.

Receiving distortions of Nichiren's Buddhism and then Nichiren's stolen Gohonzon from evil priests worshiping in ancient and now-dead practices will incur instead a serious admonition from the Daishonin.

Cause and effect rules the world. You cannot steal Gohonzon and then expect benefit from distortions of the founder's practice.

-Chas.
_________________________________________________________
Here's a refresher for you, Chas-- Nichiren's description of the Eternal Buddha and his attitude towards him--
The passages are from "The Opening Of The Eyes"-
"But the Buddha, our great teacher, has advanced beyond even transmigration with change and advance, let alone transmigration with differences and limitations. He has wiped out even the very root of fundamental darkness, let lone the illusions of thought and desire that are as minor as branches and leaves."
"The Buddha, from the time of his enlightenment at the age of thirty until his passing at the age of eighty, expounded his sacred teachings for a period of fifty years. Each word, each phrase he spoke is true, not a sentence, not a verse is false. The words of the sages and worthy preserved in the scriptures and teachings of Confucianism and Brahmanism, as we have noted, are free of error, and the words match the spirit in which they were spoken. But how much more true is this in the case of the Buddha, who had spoken not a false word for countless kalpasI In comparison to the non-Buddhist scriptures and teachings, the doctrines that he expounded in a period of fifty or so years represent the great vehicle, the true words of the great man, Everything that he preached, from the dawn of his enlightenment until the evening that he entered into nirvana , is none other than the truth."
Interesting that you missed the next paragraphs and the meaning of this passage, which applies directly to you all.

It has to do with how the supreme teachings are attacked by “appropriating Buddhism” or “plagiarizing Buddhism”, by efforts to "twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."

Here is the passage that describes what you and your traitorous priests do, by merging Hinduism and Shinto statue worshiping with Nichiren's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra ("The Opening of the Eyes (I)", WND I, pp. 223-225)
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-13

... However, when we examine the eighty thousand teachings of
... Buddhism expounded during a period of fifty or so years and
... recorded in scriptures, we find that they fall into various
... categories such as HINAYANA AND MAHAYANA, PROVISIONAL AND
... TRUE SUTRAS, EXOTERIC AND ESOTERIC TEACHINGS, DETAILED AND
... ROUGH DISCOURSES, TRUE WORDS AND FALSE WORDS, CORRECT AND
... INCORRECT VIEWS. BUT AMONG THESE, THE LOTUS SUTRA ALONE
... REPRESENTS THE CORRECT TEACHINGS OF SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, THE
... LORD OF TEACHINGS, THE TRUTHFUL WORDS OF THE BUDDHAS OF THE
... THREE EXISTENCES AND THE TEN DIRECTIONS. The World-Honored
... One of Great Enlightenment designated a specific period of
... the preceding forty years and more, and defined the various
... sutras preached during that period, numerous as the sands
... of the Ganges, as the sutras in which he had “not yet
... revealed the truth.” He designated the Lotus Sutra preached
... during the eight years as the sutra in which he “now must
... reveal the truth.” Thus Many Treasures Buddha came forth
... from beneath the earth to testify that “all that you have
... expounded [in the Lotus Sutra] is the truth,” and the
... Buddhas who are emanations of Shakyamuni gathered together
... and extended their long tongues up to the Brahmā heaven in
... testimony. These words are perfectly clear, perfectly
... understandable, brighter than the sun on a clear day, or
... like the full moon at midnight. Look up to them and believe
... them, and when you turn away, cherish them in your heart!
...
... The Lotus Sutra contains two important teachings. The
... Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, Precepts,
... Dharma Characteristics, and Three Treatises schools have
... never heard even so much as the name of these teachings.
... THE FLOWER GARLAND AND TRUE WORD SCHOOLS, ON THE OTHER
... HAND, HAVE SURREPTITIOUSLY STOLEN THESE DOCTRINES AND MADE
... THEM THE HEART OF THEIR OWN TEACHINGS. The doctrine of
... three thousand realms in a single moment of life is found
... in only one place, hidden in the depths of the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra.
... Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu were aware of it but did not bring
... it forth into the light. T’ien-t’ai Chih-che alone embraced
... it and kept it ever in mind.
...
... The doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life begins with the concept of the mutual possession of
... the Ten Worlds. But the Dharma Characteristics and Three
... Treatises schools speak only of eight worlds and know
... nothing of the entirety of the Ten Worlds, much less of the
... concept of their mutual possession. The Dharma Analysis
... Treasury, Establishment of Truth, and Precepts schools
... derive their teachings from the Āgama sutras. They are
... aware only of the six worlds and know nothing of the other
... four worlds. They declare that in all the ten directions
... there is only one Buddha, and do not even preach that there
... is any other Buddha in any of the ten directions. OF THE
... PRINCIPLE THAT “ALL SENTIENT BEINGS ALIKE POSSESS THE
... BUDDHA NATURE,” THEY OF COURSE SAY NOTHING AT ALL. They
... refuse to acknowledge that even a single person possesses
... the Buddha nature. IN SPITE OF THIS, ONE WILL SOMETIMES
... HEAR MEMBERS OF THE PRECEPTS AND ESTABLISHMENT OF TRUTH
... SCHOOLS DECLARING THAT THERE ARE BUDDHAS IN THE TEN
... DIRECTIONS, OR THAT ALL LIVING BEINGS POSSESS THE BUDDHA
... NATURE. This is because the teachers of these schools who
... appeared after the passing away of the Buddha had stolen
... these Mahayana doctrines and incorporated them into the
... teachings of their own schools.
...

Buddhas in the ten directions. Do you know who they are? The world of living beings.

THEY ARE COMMON MORTALS, WHO ARE NONE OTHER THAN THE TRUE BUDDHA.

How could you possibly miss this point?

... To illustrate, in the period before the appearance of
... Buddhism, the proponents of the non-Buddhist teachings in
... India were not so bound up in their own views. But after
... the appearance of the Buddha, when they had listened to and
... observed the Buddhist teachings, they became aware of the
... shortcomings of their own doctrines. THEY THEN CONCEIVED
... THE CLEVER IDEA OF APPROPRIATING BUDDHIST TEACHINGS AND
... INCORPORATING THEM INTO THEIR OWN DOCTRINES, AND AS A
... RESULT THEY FELL INTO EVEN DEEPER ERROR THAN BEFORE. THESE
... ARE EXAMPLES OF THE ERRORS KNOWN AS “APPROPRIATING
... BUDDHISM” OR “PLAGIARIZING BUDDHISM.”
...

And this appropriation into Hinduism (the non-Buddhist schools of India), continues with the statue worshipers of Nichiren Shu, and now Nichiren Shoshu, since Alex is an active part of your Sangha.

... The same thing occurred in the case of non-Buddhist
... scriptures in China. Before Buddhism was brought to China,
... Confucianism and Taoism were rather naive and childish
... affairs. But in the Later Han, Buddhism was introduced to
... China and challenged the native doctrines. In time, as
... Buddhism became more popular, THERE WERE CERTAIN BUDDHIST
... PRIESTS WHO, BECAUSE THEY HAD BROKEN THE PRECEPTS, WERE
... FORCED TO RETURN TO SECULAR LIFE, OR WHO ELECTED TO JOIN
... FORCES WITH THE NATIVE CREEDS. THROUGH SUCH MEN, BUDDHIST
... DOCTRINES WERE STOLEN AND INCORPORATED INTO THE CONFUCIAN
... AND TAOIST TEACHINGS.
...

This is much like the Nichiren Shu and now, Nichiren Shoshu and Iain's Sangha.

... In volume five of Great Concentration and Insight we read:
... “These days there are many devilish monks who break the
... precepts and return to lay life. Fearing that they will be
... punished for their action, they then go over to the side of
... the Taoists. Hoping to gain fame and profit, they speak
... extravagantly of the merits of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu,
... usurping Buddhist concepts and reading them into their
... erroneous scriptures. THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”

"They twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."

That's what you guys are all about.
Do you notice, Chas--- how Nichiren upheld the Lotus Sutra? Do you notice that he doesn't call himself, "Buddha"?
Absolutely Nichiren Daishonin does, over and over.

He refers to himself as a "common mortal".

The term "Daishonin" or "true Buddha" means "common mortal." Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha, or a function of the true Buddha, which is a common mortal.

That's why the Gohonzon works so perfectly for everyone. It raises the enlightened aspect of not only the provisional Buddha function of Shakyamuni, but all the other provisional Buddhas and other functions in your life, when you add the "pure and far-reaching voice" invoking the daimoku of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

Do I need to include those passages again? I will until you can grasp their truth, which you repeatedly are missing.

[snip the rest.]

-Chas.
_________________________________________________________

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 10:41:22 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

Yo! Chas - maybe the reason Nichiren does not refer to himself or his staunch followers as "Buddha" is because they are not " Buddha"-

Maybe you have noticed that only in the disputed Gosho, "The True Aspect of All Phrnomena" and the proven forgery , the Ogni Kuden , will you find such nonsensical references re: common mortals are Budfhas -- yaddy yaddy ---

[snip]
_________________________________________________________

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 12:50:26 AM UTC-7, ***@gmail.com wrote:

But Chas, this is exactly your behaviour which can be clearly seen by reveiwing your postings. The evidence for such is actual in relation to you (readers can chevk this for themselves by using the forum index):

"THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”

[snip]
_________________________________________________________

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 10:18:43 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

iainx, I think you are pointing out a very fundamental aspect of the attitudes and beliefs that Chas exemplifies here; the same *ends* justifies the *means* attitude that produced forgeries, fake doctrines -- in the name of *widespread propagation*.

What is Chas actually propagating? if not; Make it easy, make it about materialism, make it into a *business* --- He has no more qualm about lying and manipulation than the originators of the transfer documents, the ogni kudon , the dai-no-honzon!! They all believed the *ends* justified the *means*--

[snip]
_________________________________________________________

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 10:59:38 PM UTC-7, Chas. wrote:

How you congratulate and reinforce each other's different delusions! What a deadly embrace.

Katie (and Mark Rogow) discard the parts of Nichiren Daishonin's life work that they disagree with: those parts that point to the erroneous nature of their practice of worshiping Shakyamuni as a GOD.

Bowing down to images of another human being, they are like impoverished and starving children looking through the window outside of the supermarket, who will never get to eat the nutritious food inside, but will perpetually place all their devotion and desire on that food.

Little do they know there is food in their pockets already: as common mortals they have always been and will always be true Buddhas possessing the three bodies of the Buddha received from their parents, and entities of the Mystic Law, the Buddha of limitless joy.

Iain is worshiping the Law itself and has divorced that Law from the true Buddha, who is a common mortal. He is like a man in prison on a hunger strike, who has the keys to his cell in his pocket: as a common mortal he has always been and will always be the true Buddha of Beginningless Time and the Buddha of Absolute Freedom.

Although they appear to believe differently: Katie and Mark thinking the eternal Buddha is someone other than themselves who they must worship, and Iain thinking that the Buddha is the Law and no one he would follow in particular, they actually agree. They all think the Buddha is outside.

How tragic and pitiful.

-Chas.
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-23 08:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chas.
Interesting to watch the rapprochement between Alex of Nichiren Shoshu and the Iain Shoshu wing of the Rogow-Higgins Shu offshoot of Kempon Hokke of Nichiren Shu.
Next thing you know Nichiren Shoshu will be chanting to statues, too.
How surprising from you Cha(rle)s the little SGI soldier, who poops us
to get stuck in the religious marketing war between Nichiren Shoshu and
SGI!!! It is a marketing war and this is the very important aspect of
your organization, as everybody here knows the SGI has nothing to do
with Buddhism. Don't loose your precious time between your airline
business trips to comment what is going on here Chas. Nobody trust your
infinite long posts, nobody trust your Zen stories copied and pasted for
26 years just to try to get some cyberspace.
We on this Newsgroup are just seeking the Buddha and the law just by
following the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin with faith and practice. I
am following the Nichiren Shoshu tradition, and your organization have
been caught "in flagrante delicto", in the act, red-handed, of
slandering the Law and distorting the Daishonin teachings, with the
"Human Revolution" of Mr. IKEDA the ringlearder who promoted the ideas
that the Gakkkaï should separate from Nichiren Shoshu, should use
Nichiren Shoshu, and should manage Nichiren Shoshu. And this have been
going on since 1976, although Ikeda did public excuses, and promised
High Priest Nittatsu Shonin that he would correct his erroneous
statements........
But Nichiren Shoshu is still there standing alone for more than 750
years.
May be you will someday reach enlightenment through the "Poison drum
relationship"
As Ianx says : "Be Well!!!"
@lex
Post by Chas.
_________________________________________
The most perverse sect at the time of Nichiren was Tendai [Mikkyo] which mixed Lotus Sutra Buddhism and Shingon. Today, we have a similar problem but NST and SGI ...
[snip]
You are projecting. It is you and your Shinto-ized version of Hinduistic statue-worshiping distortion of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism that is clearly a corruption. Nichiren Daishonin declared the Gohonzon as the supreme object of worship throughout Jambudvipa, not your pictures and statues. They do not possess the true aspect.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-3
... NO ONE BUT NICHIREN has ever revealed teachings like these.
... Though T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyō knew about them in
... their hearts, they never put them into words. They went
... about their lives keeping this knowledge to themselves. And
... there was good reason for this. The Buddha had not
... entrusted them with the task, the time had not yet come,
... and they had not been the Buddha’s disciples from the
... distant past. Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices,
... and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth cannot only appear during the
... first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law and
... spread the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, the essence
... of all phenomena, BUT ALSO GIVE CONCRETE FORM TO THE
... CEREMONY OF THE TWO BUDDHAS SEATED SIDE BY SIDE IN THE
... TREASURE TOWER. The reason is that what they are to spread
... and give concrete form to is none other than the teaching
... of the actual three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life in the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching.
...
1. "No one but Nichiren" has revealed these teachings, not even Shakyamuni, Lord of Teachings, who is negatively included with all others in the phrase "no one".
It was no one else's mission, but Nichiren Daishonin to reveal the highest truth hidden at the heart of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin explains this in various other places as due to the time, however, it is also due to who Nichiren Daishonin is.
Nichiren Daishonin is the man for that moment, who turns that wheel that makes the new era of the Latter Day of the Law or Mappo, by revealing the truth that no one else can reveal.
This is the man Iain calls a "latter commentator", and who I call Daishonin or True Buddha. Nichiren Daishonin is the revealer, not the commentator, oddly, that role is left to Shakyamuni who predicted Nichiren Daishonin's revelation of the heart of the Lotus Sutra: the heart of the highest teaching.
The heart of the highest teaching that he reveals is not indicated directly in any quote in the Lotus Sutra, such that you can actually logically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what Nichiren Daishonin reveals is the truth.
The truth of the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, as in all far lesser religious truths, is not logically deduced or induced, but is based on faith alone: however, in both the Western and Eastern worlds, Reason includes both Logic AND Faith.
Hence, faith-based logic is reasonable, unless you are without faith, then that logic is not reasonable and makes no sense whatsoever.
Faith in this case implies practice, you have to chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to come to believe in it and experience the result to gain faith.
2. However, before you can have faith in the power of the daimoku, you had to have faith in Nichiren Daishonin, who reveals that highest truth, you would have to have faith in the mentor, that he is revealing to you, the disciple, the absolute truth and nothing else. Otherwise, your practice of the Lotus Sutra would be Tendai, and simple recitation of its chapters to your statues.
Not having faith in Nichiren Daishonin, since you had never heard of him, you had to have faith in the mentor that introduced you, or taught you to chant, or led the first district meeting you went to, or ... whoever the bodhisattva was: that person had faith in the daimoku, the Gohonzon and hence, that Nichiren Daishonin was in fact, completely right! The disciple first receives faith in the veracity of Nichiren Daishonin (or an echo of it) from their mentor.
3. "Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices, and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among the Bodhisattvas of the Earth ..." "... also give concrete form to the ceremony of the two Buddhas seated side by side in the treasure tower." That concrete form is the Gohonzon, the highest object of worship.
Shakyamuni not only cannot reveal the highest teaching ... also, he cannot enscribe the Gohonzon.
Why? Because it is not his mission given by the eternal Buddha. That was given to the very first of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, Nichiren Daishonin, as the embodiment of Superior Practices, or Jogyo.
This means you either trust what Nichiren Daishonin says and choose the Gohonzon as your highest object of worship to chant the daimoku to, or distrust Nichiren Daishonin and chant the daimoku to your statues. You will however, have to choose which path to take, with hell to pay upon your mistaken choice.
... THEREFORE, THE TWO BUDDHAS, SHAKYAMUNI AND MANY TREASURES,
... ARE BUDDHAS WHO ARE FUNCTIONS [OF MYOHO-RENGE-KYO]. IT IS
... MYOHO-RENGE-KYO THAT IS THE TRUE BUDDHA. This is what is
... described in the sutra as “the Thus Come One’s secret and
... his transcendental powers.” THE “THUS COME ONE’S SECRET”
... REFERS TO THE ENTITY OF THE BUDDHA’S THREE BODIES, AND IT
... REFERS TO THE TRUE BUDDHA. “His transcendental powers”
... refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers
... to provisional Buddhas. A COMMON MORTAL IS AN ENTITY OF THE
... THREE BODIES, AND A TRUE BUDDHA. A Buddha is a function of
... the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case,
... though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the
... three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
... sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. ON THE
... CONTRARY, IT IS COMMON MORTALS WHO ENDOW HIM WITH THE THREE
... VIRTUES.
...
4. "Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha."
Shakyamuni (and Taho) are functions of the eternal Buddha, Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which we invoke in the daimoku.
Is that crystal clear? If you chant the daimoku, you have to have faith that Nichiren Daishonin is correct, otherwise Myoho-Renge-Kyo would not be the eternal Buddha: and if you accept that, then Shakyamuni would not be a function of Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
You cannot have it both ways, you must give up the supremacy of Shakyamuni and stop chanting to images of him, since you cannot chant the highest teaching hidden in the Lotus Sutra that was revealed by Nichiren Daishonin unless you agree with him on this completely central point. Stop chanting to functions, and chant to the Gohonzon.
5. These three phrases (a through c, below) refer to the common mortal, or true Buddha, which Nichiren Daishonin is, and also you and I as well as every common mortal. Common mortals in the Mappo era, after Nichiren Daishonin revealed the truth, are also Bodhisattvas of the Earth, according to Josei Toda.
Here's the proof of Nichiren Daishonin's point.
a. '“Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha.'
b. "A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha."
c. "On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him [Shakyamuni] with the three virtues."
6. These two phrases (d and e) refer to provisional Buddhas like Shakyamuni, who are functions of the three bodies of the true Buddha.
d. '“His transcendental powers” refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas.'
e. 'A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not so.'
... The “Thus Come One” is explained clearly in T’ien-t’ai’s
... commentary as follows: “The Thus Come One is a general
... designation for the Buddhas of the ten directions and the
... three existences, for the two Buddhas, the three Buddhas,
... the true Buddha, and provisional Buddhas.” THE “TRUE
... BUDDHA” HERE MEANS COMMON MORTALS, WHEREAS “PROVISIONAL
... BUDDHAS” MEANS BUDDHAS. However, because of the difference
... between ordinary people and Buddhas that stems from the
... disparity between delusion and enlightenment, ordinary
... people are unaware that they are endowed with both the
... entity and the functions of the three bodies.
...
'The “true Buddha” here means common mortals, whereas “provisional Buddhas” means Buddhas.'
That is another direct quote making this very point again. Clear and straightforward and unmistakable.
The common mortal is the true Buddha, whereas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures in all their eternal glory as inscribed on the Gohonzon, are functions of the entity that is any common mortal enveloped in his or her delusion.
That means that if a statue worshiper really wanted to enshrine a more proper image to chant to, it would be the picture of a drunk or a hooker on the street: better that, than just a FUNCTION of that true Buddha, that very human being.
This is why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)
... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...
'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'
This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.
If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.
Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.
All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23
'his body neither existing nor not existing,
neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color'
This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.
... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...
Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.
... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...
Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit"
"an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."
'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'
... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?
___________________________________________________________
Let's look into "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon", and see what Nichiren teaches us.
"This mandala is in no way my invention. It is the object of devotion that depicts Shakyamuni Buddha, the World Honored One, seated in the treasure tower of Many treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas who were Shakyamuni's emanations as perfectly as a print matches its print block."
Your argument is a non sequitor and is sign of your fallacious reasoning and mental corruption. I never claimed that Nichiren Daishonin invented the Gohonzon, which is a depiction of the ceremony in the air at the moment that the Law is passed from the mentor (Shakyamuni) to the disciples (Bodhisattvas of the Earth, chiefly Jogyo Superior Practices, who is Nichiren Daishonin).
Nichiren Daishonin is the common mortal, who is the true Buddha, as are you and myself. Shakyamuni is a function of our true Buddhahood, this is what Nichiren Daishonin says. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, you cannot believe in the daimoku, which Nichiren Daishonin revealed and that you have to take on faith. He sadi it, I didn't, why do you want to thwart what he says so clearly with all this flak? Just accept it.
According to the Ongi Kuden and thus Nichiren Daishonin, the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, son of "the grandfather".
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15
... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: In
... this passage we learn about the Buddha of the original
... state [that is, the Buddha of limitless joy]. “Grandfather”
... is another name for the Dharma-realm. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the “Expedient Means” chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as “grandfather.” Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.
...
... The word “wheel-turning” refers to the phases of birth,
... abiding, change, and extinction. The words “sage king”
... refer to the element of the mind. These three factors,
... appearance, nature, and entity, are the father and mother
... of all the Buddhas of the three existences of past,
... present, and future.
...
... Now, when Nichiren and his followers chant
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they are acting as father and mother
... of the Buddhas of the three existences, as their
... grandfather, the wheel-turning sage king.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35
... “Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme perfect
... p.157enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
... householder’s life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... “Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a hundred,
... thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects, all
... together surrounded the sons and followed them to the place
... of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the thus
... come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer alms,
... pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they arrived,
... they bowed before his feet, touching their heads to the
... ground.
Aside from that, who knows, I don't. As far as I can tell, the eternal Buddha has no person otherwise identified in the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni attained enlightenment after his father.
At any rate, who was first hardly matters, unless you want to worship a statue of the first enlightened one.
I am satisfied that the Buddha leading our regiment of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth is Nichiren Daishonin, AKA Jogyo Superior Practices. He is the mentor whose Gosho I have made my mentor. I practice as he says and only that way. I worship no person and images of no person.
I worship the Gohonzon of the True Aspect of all Phenomena, which, BTW is a topic none of you have touched on, although I have elucidated it fully for your edification.
"It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo.[Lotus sutra Chap.2] The Great Teacher Dengyo said, "A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy. this Buddha has forsaken august appearances." [The Treatise on the Secret and Sacred Teachings]
Are you listening to yourself? The Buddha of Limitless Joy is without aspect, just as I quoted.
Not a statue of Shakyamuni. Get it?
Do you need page#'s-- not sure which text you have.
IF Nichiren were the Original Buddha, teacher of Shakyamuni, WHY wouldn't he claim credit for the SOURCE of the Gohonzon as "his own invention"?
OR REVEAL the identity you claim is is TRUE identity?
Didn't claim that. Putting words in my mouth is lying. Don't do that.
All common mortals are the true Buddha, led by Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren Daishonin is the leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, AKA Jogyo.
With your own presumptions,You, Chas are identifying Nichiren as a cunning, duplicitous teacher-- when it is your Sensei who has earned that title a million times over!!
This is a pile of crap and wierd supposition, avoid it Katie.
And that is the crux of the matter. You lost your true mind before you posted your first comment on this site---such is the fate of those who "follow evil teachers".
[snip the rest.]
_________________________________________________________
How fortunate that we can possess and chant to an *authentic* Gohonzon inscribed by Nichiren's own hand...
These Gohonzon were received from the hands of an entire line of priests that betrayed Nichiren Daishonin and turned to Shinto-ized Hinduistic cult worship of images that Shakyamuni himself would have spurned, and ancient practices that were before Nichiren Daishonin turned the wheel to create the new era: of the Latter Day of the Law.
Receiving distortions of Nichiren's Buddhism and then Nichiren's stolen Gohonzon from evil priests worshiping in ancient and now-dead practices will incur instead a serious admonition from the Daishonin.
Cause and effect rules the world. You cannot steal Gohonzon and then expect benefit from distortions of the founder's practice.
-Chas.
_________________________________________________________
Here's a refresher for you, Chas-- Nichiren's description of the Eternal Buddha and his attitude towards him--
The passages are from "The Opening Of The Eyes"-
"But the Buddha, our great teacher, has advanced beyond even transmigration with change and advance, let alone transmigration with differences and limitations. He has wiped out even the very root of fundamental darkness, let lone the illusions of thought and desire that are as minor as branches and leaves."
"The Buddha, from the time of his enlightenment at the age of thirty until his passing at the age of eighty, expounded his sacred teachings for a period of fifty years. Each word, each phrase he spoke is true, not a sentence, not a verse is false. The words of the sages and worthy preserved in the scriptures and teachings of Confucianism and Brahmanism, as we have noted, are free of error, and the words match the spirit in which they were spoken. But how much more true is this in the case of the Buddha, who had spoken not a false word for countless kalpasI In comparison to the non-Buddhist scriptures and teachings, the doctrines that he expounded in a period of fifty or so years represent the great vehicle, the true words of the great man, Everything that he preached, from the dawn of his enlightenment until the evening that he entered into nirvana , is none other than the truth."
Interesting that you missed the next paragraphs and the meaning of this passage, which applies directly to you all.
It has to do with how the supreme teachings are attacked by “appropriating Buddhism” or “plagiarizing Buddhism”, by efforts to "twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."
Here is the passage that describes what you and your traitorous priests do, by merging Hinduism and Shinto statue worshiping with Nichiren's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra ("The Opening of the Eyes (I)", WND I, pp. 223-225)
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-13
... However, when we examine the eighty thousand teachings of
... Buddhism expounded during a period of fifty or so years and
... recorded in scriptures, we find that they fall into various
... categories such as HINAYANA AND MAHAYANA, PROVISIONAL AND
... TRUE SUTRAS, EXOTERIC AND ESOTERIC TEACHINGS, DETAILED AND
... ROUGH DISCOURSES, TRUE WORDS AND FALSE WORDS, CORRECT AND
... INCORRECT VIEWS. BUT AMONG THESE, THE LOTUS SUTRA ALONE
... REPRESENTS THE CORRECT TEACHINGS OF SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, THE
... LORD OF TEACHINGS, THE TRUTHFUL WORDS OF THE BUDDHAS OF THE
... THREE EXISTENCES AND THE TEN DIRECTIONS. The World-Honored
... One of Great Enlightenment designated a specific period of
... the preceding forty years and more, and defined the various
... sutras preached during that period, numerous as the sands
... of the Ganges, as the sutras in which he had “not yet
... revealed the truth.” He designated the Lotus Sutra preached
... during the eight years as the sutra in which he “now must
... reveal the truth.” Thus Many Treasures Buddha came forth
... from beneath the earth to testify that “all that you have
... expounded [in the Lotus Sutra] is the truth,” and the
... Buddhas who are emanations of Shakyamuni gathered together
... and extended their long tongues up to the Brahmā heaven in
... testimony. These words are perfectly clear, perfectly
... understandable, brighter than the sun on a clear day, or
... like the full moon at midnight. Look up to them and believe
... them, and when you turn away, cherish them in your heart!
...
... The Lotus Sutra contains two important teachings. The
... Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, Precepts,
... Dharma Characteristics, and Three Treatises schools have
... never heard even so much as the name of these teachings.
... THE FLOWER GARLAND AND TRUE WORD SCHOOLS, ON THE OTHER
... HAND, HAVE SURREPTITIOUSLY STOLEN THESE DOCTRINES AND MADE
... THEM THE HEART OF THEIR OWN TEACHINGS. The doctrine of
... three thousand realms in a single moment of life is found
... in only one place, hidden in the depths of the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra.
... Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu were aware of it but did not bring
... it forth into the light. T’ien-t’ai Chih-che alone embraced
... it and kept it ever in mind.
...
... The doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life begins with the concept of the mutual possession of
... the Ten Worlds. But the Dharma Characteristics and Three
... Treatises schools speak only of eight worlds and know
... nothing of the entirety of the Ten Worlds, much less of the
... concept of their mutual possession. The Dharma Analysis
... Treasury, Establishment of Truth, and Precepts schools
... derive their teachings from the Āgama sutras. They are
... aware only of the six worlds and know nothing of the other
... four worlds. They declare that in all the ten directions
... there is only one Buddha, and do not even preach that there
... is any other Buddha in any of the ten directions. OF THE
... PRINCIPLE THAT “ALL SENTIENT BEINGS ALIKE POSSESS THE
... BUDDHA NATURE,” THEY OF COURSE SAY NOTHING AT ALL. They
... refuse to acknowledge that even a single person possesses
... the Buddha nature. IN SPITE OF THIS, ONE WILL SOMETIMES
... HEAR MEMBERS OF THE PRECEPTS AND ESTABLISHMENT OF TRUTH
... SCHOOLS DECLARING THAT THERE ARE BUDDHAS IN THE TEN
... DIRECTIONS, OR THAT ALL LIVING BEINGS POSSESS THE BUDDHA
... NATURE. This is because the teachers of these schools who
... appeared after the passing away of the Buddha had stolen
... these Mahayana doctrines and incorporated them into the
... teachings of their own schools.
...
Buddhas in the ten directions. Do you know who they are? The world of living beings.
THEY ARE COMMON MORTALS, WHO ARE NONE OTHER THAN THE TRUE BUDDHA.
How could you possibly miss this point?
... To illustrate, in the period before the appearance of
... Buddhism, the proponents of the non-Buddhist teachings in
... India were not so bound up in their own views. But after
... the appearance of the Buddha, when they had listened to and
... observed the Buddhist teachings, they became aware of the
... shortcomings of their own doctrines. THEY THEN CONCEIVED
... THE CLEVER IDEA OF APPROPRIATING BUDDHIST TEACHINGS AND
... INCORPORATING THEM INTO THEIR OWN DOCTRINES, AND AS A
... RESULT THEY FELL INTO EVEN DEEPER ERROR THAN BEFORE. THESE
... ARE EXAMPLES OF THE ERRORS KNOWN AS “APPROPRIATING
... BUDDHISM” OR “PLAGIARIZING BUDDHISM.”
...
And this appropriation into Hinduism (the non-Buddhist schools of India), continues with the statue worshipers of Nichiren Shu, and now Nichiren Shoshu, since Alex is an active part of your Sangha.
... The same thing occurred in the case of non-Buddhist
... scriptures in China. Before Buddhism was brought to China,
... Confucianism and Taoism were rather naive and childish
... affairs. But in the Later Han, Buddhism was introduced to
... China and challenged the native doctrines. In time, as
... Buddhism became more popular, THERE WERE CERTAIN BUDDHIST
... PRIESTS WHO, BECAUSE THEY HAD BROKEN THE PRECEPTS, WERE
... FORCED TO RETURN TO SECULAR LIFE, OR WHO ELECTED TO JOIN
... FORCES WITH THE NATIVE CREEDS. THROUGH SUCH MEN, BUDDHIST
... DOCTRINES WERE STOLEN AND INCORPORATED INTO THE CONFUCIAN
... AND TAOIST TEACHINGS.
...
This is much like the Nichiren Shu and now, Nichiren Shoshu and Iain's Sangha.
... “These days there are many devilish monks who break the
... precepts and return to lay life. Fearing that they will be
... punished for their action, they then go over to the side of
... the Taoists. Hoping to gain fame and profit, they speak
... extravagantly of the merits of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu,
... usurping Buddhist concepts and reading them into their
... erroneous scriptures. THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”
"They twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."
That's what you guys are all about.
Do you notice, Chas--- how Nichiren upheld the Lotus Sutra? Do you notice that he doesn't call himself, "Buddha"?
Absolutely Nichiren Daishonin does, over and over.
He refers to himself as a "common mortal".
The term "Daishonin" or "true Buddha" means "common mortal." Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha, or a function of the true Buddha, which is a common mortal.
That's why the Gohonzon works so perfectly for everyone. It raises the enlightened aspect of not only the provisional Buddha function of Shakyamuni, but all the other provisional Buddhas and other functions in your life, when you add the "pure and far-reaching voice" invoking the daimoku of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
Do I need to include those passages again? I will until you can grasp their truth, which you repeatedly are missing.
[snip the rest.]
-Chas.
_________________________________________________________
Yo! Chas - maybe the reason Nichiren does not refer to himself or his staunch followers as "Buddha" is because they are not " Buddha"-
Maybe you have noticed that only in the disputed Gosho, "The True Aspect of All Phrnomena" and the proven forgery , the Ogni Kuden , will you find such nonsensical references re: common mortals are Budfhas -- yaddy yaddy ---
[snip]
_________________________________________________________
"THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”
[snip]
_________________________________________________________
iainx, I think you are pointing out a very fundamental aspect of the attitudes and beliefs that Chas exemplifies here; the same *ends* justifies the *means* attitude that produced forgeries, fake doctrines -- in the name of *widespread propagation*.
What is Chas actually propagating? if not; Make it easy, make it about materialism, make it into a *business* --- He has no more qualm about lying and manipulation than the originators of the transfer documents, the ogni kudon , the dai-no-honzon!! They all believed the *ends* justified the *means*--
[snip]
_________________________________________________________
How you congratulate and reinforce each other's different delusions! What a deadly embrace.
Katie (and Mark Rogow) discard the parts of Nichiren Daishonin's life work that they disagree with: those parts that point to the erroneous nature of their practice of worshiping Shakyamuni as a GOD.
Bowing down to images of another human being, they are like impoverished and starving children looking through the window outside of the supermarket, who will never get to eat the nutritious food inside, but will perpetually place all their devotion and desire on that food.
Little do they know there is food in their pockets already: as common mortals they have always been and will always be true Buddhas possessing the three bodies of the Buddha received from their parents, and entities of the Mystic Law, the Buddha of limitless joy.
Iain is worshiping the Law itself and has divorced that Law from the true Buddha, who is a common mortal. He is like a man in prison on a hunger strike, who has the keys to his cell in his pocket: as a common mortal he has always been and will always be the true Buddha of Beginningless Time and the Buddha of Absolute Freedom.
Although they appear to believe differently: Katie and Mark thinking the eternal Buddha is someone other than themselves who they must worship, and Iain thinking that the Buddha is the Law and no one he would follow in particular, they actually agree. They all think the Buddha is outside.
How tragic and pitiful.
-Chas.
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-22 10:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
"Yes I don't like SGI, because they slander the Lotus Sutra, the Law, the
Buddha.
Nichiren often stated the 7 or 5 characters .... Think about it. There
may be a reason.
I do Namu 3 times a day and as much I can I chant Nam million times.
Therotically only one Daimoku is enough.
Did you watch the movie?
I don't insult your School, so don't insult Nichiren Shoshu.
BTW Why don't you chant Namu Shakiamuni Butsu.
That should be consistent in front of your statues.
Be well
Best Regards
@lex"
Thanks Alex, though I am surprised at the statue comment to Katie, she has clarified this several times and clarified that she does not worship statues.
But perhaps you might consider that "insults to schools" are a little tribal and misplaced in terms of Nichiren Buddhism, famously Nichiren stated tgat he was not the founder of any school and with good reason. You yourself have pointed out that sectarianism has riven the Nichiren community, it is tge rise of schools and their adherants attachment to their brand that has blocked the Law as much as they have preserved it.
The only way I can see around that is for Nichiren practioners of all persuasions and none to take a faith first approsch, which means loosening attachment to institutions.
There maybe a place for such but history has shoen us just how divisive institutions have become. From thus has come the likes if the SGI, the purpose of which is to ram home the point by taking it to it's logical conclusion.
SGI's demise will take us to the very end of that cul de sac. It is now time for the Nichiren community to grow up into maturity.
Nichiren Shoshu must also bear responsibility for what it loosed on the world Alex, just as much as Daisaku Ikeda. Good will come of it, for sure but that good will not exist in the shape of what has gone before.
Even though temple numbers are stable in their total, whilst SGI's have declined, that's cold comfort. The fact remains that global population has risen. If you were gettjng paid the same amount for playing a gig as 28 years ago, you would not be saying you'd were earning the same as you were 28 years ago!!!
It is the same for all the sects bar perhaps Nichiren Shu, whicj may actually be growing, albeit very, very slowly and not enough to keep pace with population growth.
So the question is not which school thrives and which does not, it is rather how directly does the Law survive, spread and thrive? And for that there is only one answer, which is the single mind of faith, a concept that includes all sincere Nichiren practitioners of all schools and none.
Others will disagree with me, because they may say that this or that school does this or that wrong thing. However from my perspective, that in itself is an error, to confuse the group identity with that of the individual.
It is the same error that individual practitioners fall into when they have too much attachment for their school. Essentially, at such times, their mind overlays their school on top of the Gohonzon, obscuring it.
There is not one jot of scriptural support within the Sutra to support such a sectarian view, there is only faith and the Sutra itself. We would fo well to remember that.
That there will be groupings, is supported in the Sutra, that is delineated in the Emergence from the Earth chapter as is Independent practice. However, what we do not see is the Bodhisattvas of the Earth fighting amongst themselves, whilst the Law perishes.
Even I, with all my critiscism of SGI and their Nammers, do not discount that there may be sincere and correctly practicing SGI members, though I absolutely discount it's paid leadership, who quite openly and clearly advocate something that is no even Buddhism and worse, slanders the Sutra.
When numbers of all sects fall further behind, at that time, they will come to understand that their divisions, their identities and boundaries are the problem and will find a way yo transcend those boundaries. Those who do not, will perish. It is that simple.
Meanwhile, the dawning realisation of that has already begun to awaken outside of sects and perhaps within some. The Law doesn't wait, it has it's rhythm. You're either on the beat or not.
Personally, I hope you are Alex.
Be well :)
My own position
good morning Ian,
Once again I'll try to break the silence of my lurking on this newsgroup
where the fun never stops. as also lot of confusion....... I am amazed
by so much hate expressed, that a few days ago I posted two quotes ie :
(> "When in public debate, although the teachings that you advocate are
Post by i***@gmail.com
perfectly consistent with the truth, you should never on that account be
impolite or abusive, or display a conceited attitude. Such conduct would
be disgraceful. Order your thoughts, words and actions carefully and be
prudent when you meet with others in debate."
Nichiren Daishonin:Teaching, Practice and Proof (MW 4, p 111 ~)
Best Regards
@lex
" There should be no discrimination among those who propagate the five
characters of Myoho-renge-kyo in the latter day of the law, be they men
or women. Where they not the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, they could not
chant the daimoku."

Nichiren Daishonin
THE TRUE ASPECT OF ALL PHENOMENA )
I have to admit that the amount of insults on the newsgroup is sometimes
very contagious.
I have nothing against Shakiamuni statues, and I personally think that
it a testimony of the greatness of Buddhist spirituality. my comment to
Katie was not an insult, just a remark, as at my home when I'm taking
the stairs to go to my altar there is a landing floor in the middle of
the stairs where there is a wonderful Buddha head, and at that stage of
the ascension I often think, often say : Namu Shakiamuni Butsu. At the
foot of this head there is a Thaï Hinayana prayer scriptures book used
by Thaï monks.
So I am a little bit surprised to see all these discussion about Nam and
Namu, but I've been rejoiced to read from member Jigoku Kitsugi : "I
remember when I was doing research on Nam and Namu, a Kempon Hokke
priest said if it causes strife it's not worth the argument, the faith
in one's heart is what matters."
To be much deeper I think that a part from Chas here everybody is in
anger against SGI,
and in a certain way everybody is throwing the baby with the dirty bath
water.
Specially when it comes so very often to quote SGI/NST as being the same
thing.
This started to grow in 1979, and have been incubating since the crash,
and is still going on.
Therefore it reminds me of people eating their piece of the cadaver to
keep their piece of the heritage.
Regarding your remarks about the growing and decrease of members I'll
say that you cannot think about that the same way that you have analyzed
the phenomena about SGI. Buddhist temples, are part of a culture, family
values, geographical proximity...............
And let us emphasize that in the history of Nichiren Shoshu there were
times with no more than 30 priests and monks in Taisekiji.
I've been glad to reply to your post
And I wish you a good day
Best Regards
@lex
Jigoku Kintsugi
2016-09-21 22:51:52 UTC
Permalink
I remember when I was doing research on Nam and Namu, a Kempon Hokke priest said if it causes strife it's not worth the argument, the faith in one's heart is what matters. like the way In Japan there are different pronunciations from one prefecture to the next, or even one town to the next. the honorific "u" is actually really small, and quiet. it's said very fast, like when we chant "butsu" or "setsu" we get two syllables into one beat. that's all Namu does, it doesn't add an extra beat. actually in Japan it'd be rude to elongate the honorific "u" as in "Nam-moo" being over pronounced. so I've been doing the two syllables of Namu in one beat for so long, it fits perfectly. for me, anyway, I just really like it.

I think there exist people who chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with sincere intention and conversely there are people who chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo with false intention. and obviously vice versa. *shrug* i don't care about organizations any more. I feel very positive and sincere and both serious and joyous when I chant the Daimoku in the way I do. I no longer feel I need to prove anything, or argue about it. I do like to let people know it's two syllables in one beat, though, because I know it's nice to have a pleasing rhythm while chanting. Sometimes I tap two sticks together that sound like a drum or those wooden frogs used in Buddhist temples, sometimes I tap a Tibetan singing bowl with the rhythm. whenever people get a drum circle together with all sorts of percussion going and chants like OM Mani Padme Hum, I'll introduce the full Daimoku to them, they pick it up right away even if they've never heard it before. so far as I've seen, it's only people who chanted the old 6-syllable way that seem to have problems with Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. i dunno, just think "butsu" to remember two syllables one beat? if it feels right for you.
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
I have been dealing with MU factor for quite some time on Eagle Peak and have only recently discovered this forum and and would like to share some of my views with a more diverse group of readers...Thanks

The following is from a recent post

Mark; "We just can never harmoniously chant together if you chant Nam Myoho renge kyo and I chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. Do you think that's what Nichiren desired?"

Yes we can harmoniously chant together if you chant Namu Myoho renge kyo and I chant Nam Myoho renge kyo with 6 beats correctly like native Japanese speakers do but we can never harmoniously chant together if you start to Moo like a cow like native English speakers do

Nichiren's concern was that we Chant 7 characters or the 5 characters.


Namu myoho renge kyo or Myoho renge kyo


You, Shu and Kempon Hokke are the ones that have been making the big deal over MOO.


Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke just want to be different from NST so they emphasize MU like a trademark


The NST and SGI haven't criticised the way that Namu is pronounced during 6 beat Daimoku by Native English speakers to my knowledge but it is high time this mater is brought to the attention of those concerned




This is the unfortunate result of what happens when Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke Native English speakers chant together. They are all chanting Namu myho renge kyo in harmony with each other

Chant Namu or Nam in one beat chant Na-mu with 2 beats. If I chanted Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo continuously in unison at the same time using 6 beats there will be discord because English speakers do not know how to chant Namu the correct way as native Japanese speakers do

Nichiren would of chanted the 7 characters in a 6 beat format and the 7 characters in the 7 beats ( As Nichiren Shoshu do) at different times is more feasible rather than he only chanted a 6 beat or a 7 beat Daimoku all the time - Revised version

Nichiren may have chanted Namu myo ho ren ge kyo and Nam myo ho ren ge kyo with 6 beats as I and many others including youself also do at times

I choose to write The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra as Namu myoho renge kyo as it would have to be more descriptive of what Nichiren chanted the first time he invoked the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra at dawn facing the sun rising from the Pacific ocean

Namu myoho renge kyo is used for slow chanting in all sects, and it is also used for fast chanting in NS ,KH etc but not SGI and NST etc

Namu myoho renge kyo is more more versatile as it can be used with 6 or 7 beats whether we are doing fast or slow chanting so it is only fair that we write it as such

When we are chanting fast 6 beat daimoku its up to the users discretion whether to drop the U or not after take into consideration of all the variables of the Japanese language that have been already outlined in previous posts
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.


There is no Nammerscammer going on here but only the desire to uncover the truth of the matter

The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na (south) and 無 mu (nothing) are used to express devotion


The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit Namas that means to dedicate one's life


Namu Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Namu a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namas written with kanji


Simple Definition of phonetic

•: of or relating to spoken language, speech sounds, or the science of phonetics

•: representing each speech sound with a single symbol

•: using a system of written symbols that represent speech sounds in a way that is very close to how they actually sound

Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not for their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.


This isn't my personal opinion, its coming from Japanese language scholars

Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.


Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
 
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

If 2 participants chant Namu... Myo... ho... Ren... ge... Kyo and the other Nam... Myo... ho... Ren... ge... Kyo at the same time with 6 beats, it doesn't sound the same

Now stretch it out to 7 beats, both will now be chanting a clearly defined Na... mu... Myo... ho.. Ren... ge... Kyo.

This feels right

Chant Namu...Myo..ho... Ren..ge... Kyo using 6 beats. Now chant Nam.. Myo...ho ...Ren..ge.. Kyo at the same time with 6 beats.

I personally feel more at ease with the latter because nicely she flows
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Excuse me for the the Namu bombardment but i need to off load since since you have identified as an the appropriate target...Thanks

I am personally more interested in what it is to what we are devoted to rather the pronunciation of the word that we use to express devotion of the Law of NMRK but since it keeps being brought to my attention I share my understanding from a different perspective that may not have come up before which is all about promoting healthy debate


If we understand, tried to understand, or become one with the Law, would it matter if we say Nam or Namu Myoho Renge Kyo , Dropping or not dropping the pronunciation of the character Mu or even use both like the NST or old school SGI

Its all about the sincerity of heart that really counts. How could one be denied access to the Law if they didn't add Mu or drop it. I believe that the Law is bigger than that but if it wasn't I would have nothing to do with if it was as trivial as that






Try chanting Namu Myoho Renge Kyo to the chanting of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo on these links and see if there is any difference




Now try chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo to the chanting of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo on these links and see if there is any difference


Nam/u Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Nam/u a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namah written with kanji, pronounced using the 音 (On) reading.


む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
 
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M 
Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.


The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na (south) and 無 mu (nothing) are used to express devotion "

The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas that means to dedicate one's life

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Namu a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namas written with kanji

Simple Definition of phonetic

•: of or relating to spoken language, speech sounds, or the science of phonetics

•: representing each speech sound with a single symbol

•: using a system of written symbols that represent speech sounds in a way that is very close to how they actually sound

This isn't my personal opinion, its coming from Japanese language scholars

Historical Kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

 む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
 
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

The Japanese don't pronounce Mu like western folks MOO, they don't push out their lips for a start. This is a problem from being a literalist when common sense gets thrown out the window by those who chant Namoo Myoho Renge Kyo
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.


Priests Chanting Namu myoho renge kyo with 6 beat in time with the stick hitting a wooden object

The 2 kanji characters for Namu get 1 beat

Now Na-mu is usually two beats, and the “u” is aspirated. That is how the “hiki” daimoku is chanted, with 7 beats.

For a 6 beat mantra, as often used in shodai, we treat Namu as if it is drawn with one kanji. The ‘u’ becomes unaspirated. It may be voiced as in Namu {one beat}, or unvoiced as in Nam’.


Domo-ari-ga-to
Dom’-ari-ga-to
Dom’-ari-ga_t


There are several places in Gon-gyo {sutra reciting} where two syllables get one beat. Usually, the two syllables that get one beat are drawn with one kanji. For example, Hon Matsu Ku Kyo To. Matsu is drawn with one kanji and gets one beat. The “u” in matsu is unaspirated. Some Japanese voice the u, as in matsu {one beat]. Others unvoice it as mats’. It can also be contracted as “Hon Ma_ku_kyo to.” But the u in matsu is never aspirated, that would make it two beats {ma-tsu}. We never read it as Ma-tsu.


Sometimes, for the sake of cadence, two syllables drawn with one kanji get just one beat. The example that I recall is that Sha Ka Mu Ni is drawn with 4 kanji, but read with only 2 beats — Shaka-Muni.

This also occurs with the two {2} kanji for Nan & Mu, when they become the elided Nam’ or a one beat Namu, to create a six {6} beat mantra for shodai.

Here are two sound files of the six {6} beat Odaimoku with the “u” voiced but ‘aspirated’; the mantra is Namu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo:
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-23 23:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Namu is used in Buddhism as a prefix expressing taking refuge in a Buddha or similar object of veneration.

In Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, it represents devotion or conviction in the Mystic Law of Life (Saddharma) as expounded in the Lotus Sutra, not merely as one of many scriptures, but as the ultimate teaching of Buddhism, particularly with regard to Nichiren's interpretation

The use of Nam vs. Namu is, amongst traditional Nichiren schools, a linguistic but not necessarily a dogmatic issue, since u is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese"

Mu/MOO you have turned this linguistic issue into dogma because you insist that those who say Nam instead of Namu are wrong. What about people with speech impediments are they also bared from enlightenment because they don't MOO like you do

Those of us that chant both Namu Myoho Renge Kyo and Nam Myoho Renge Kyo like NST,SGI and independents do, can do so with a clear conscience by having an informed mind not one that is under a cloud of delusion

The 7 characters of Daimoku have never been disputed unlike the phonetics of Namu


Namu 南無 "devoted to", from Sanskrit namas
Na 南 South. Nichiren took Na out of Japanese word Minami that means South
Mu 無 nothing.

Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law" Myō 妙, from
Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

Kyō 経, from Middle Chinese kjeng, "sutra"

7 characters, 7 syllables, 6 beats. All nichiren sects chant with 6 beats except when they slow it down stretching it out to 7 beats as you would do after silent prayer.

U is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese

む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

Nam-myo-ho- ren- ge-kyo is chanted much more than Na-mu-myo-ho- ren- ge-kyo during Gongyo


Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law"

Myō 妙, from Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

Nichiren's interpretation of Myo- Ho - Ren- Ge is the essence

Namas/Namu and Sutra/Kyo are common expressions that shouldn't be too complicated for you to understand. This is why I've been trying to slowly spell it out or planting a seed so that hopefully one day or perhaps another life time that a a paradigm shift in consciousness may occur
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 00:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Origins of Namu


Etymology, meaning and origins[edit]

Namaste (Namas + te, Devanagari: नमस् + ते = नमस्ते) is derived from Sanskrit and is a combination of the word namaḥ and the second person, dative, pronoun in its enclitic form te. The word namaḥ takes the Sandhi form namas before the sound t.

Namaḥ means 'bow', 'obeisance', 'reverential salutation' or 'adoration' and te means 'to you' (singular dative case of 'tvam'). Therefore, Namaste literally means "bowing to you".

A less common variant is used in the case of three or more people being addressed namely Namo vaḥ which is a combination of namaḥ and the enclitic 2nd person plural pronoun vaḥ The word namaḥ takes the Sandhi form namo before the sound v

An even less common variant is used in the case of two people being addressed, namely, Namo vām, which is a combination of namaḥ and the enclitic 2nd person dual pronoun vām

Excavations for Indus civilization have revealed many male and female terracotta figures in Namaste posture These archaeological findings are dated to be between 3000 BC to 2000 BC
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 00:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

 む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
 
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M 
Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N
 

逢はむ→あわん awamu - awan(m)
   
~せむ→~せん semu - sen(m)

   
ありけむ→ありけん arikemu - ariken(m)

   
取りてむ→とりてん toritemu - toriten(m)
   
給ひなむ→たまいなん tamainamu - tamainan(m)

   
吹かむとす→ふかんとす fukamutosu - fukan(m)tosu
   

まかりなむずる→まかりなんずる makarinamuzuru - makarina
n(m)zuru

By the way since we are on the topic of Daimoku
pronunciation the Japanese pronunciation of Renge is in between R and L but closer to L. We can say Lenge instead of Renge. It is as the Japanese do when they touch the palate with the tongue when they pronounce La Li Lu Le Lo not Ra Ri Ru RE Ro this is a mistake as is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo which should be Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo from what I have so far been able to ascertain from a non bias standpoint with information presented.

It is easier to pronounce Lenge than Renge as it rolls off the tongue and is easier to pronounce Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo than it is to pronounce Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. Why labour under unnecessary burden if it isn't necessary, isn't life already tough enough
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 00:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Gosho Break

"The sutra known as the Lotus Sutra is a scripture that has no match among all the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime.

And, as indicated by its words “between Buddhas,” it can only be understood between one Buddha and another.

What then does myō signify? It is simply the mysterious nature of our life from moment to moment, which the mind cannot comprehend or words express. When we look into our own mind at any moment, we perceive neither color nor form to verify that it exists. Yet we still cannot say it does not exist, for many differing thoughts continually occur. The mind cannot be considered either to exist or not to exist.

Life is indeed an elusive reality that transcends both the words and concepts of existence and nonexistence. It is neither existence nor nonexistence, yet exhibits the qualities of both. It is the mystic entity of the Middle Way that is the ultimate reality.

Myō is the name given to the mystic nature of life, and hō, to its manifestations.

Renge, which means lotus flower, is used to symbolize the wonder of this Law. If we understand that our life at this moment is myō, then we will also understand that our life at other moments is the Mystic Law.

This realization is the mystic kyō, or sutra. The Lotus Sutra is the king of sutras, the direct path to enlightenment, for it explains that the entity of our life, which manifests either good or evil at each moment, is in fact the entity of the Mystic Law.

If you chant Myoho-renge-kyo with deep faith in this principle, you are certain to attain Buddhahood in this lifetime.

That is why the sutra states, “After I have passed into extinction, [one] should accept and uphold this sutra. Such a person assuredly and without doubt will attain the Buddha way.” Never doubt in the slightest. - Nichiren
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 00:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas", and Myōhō Renge Kyō is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese title of the Lotus Sutra, in the translation by Kumārajīva (hence, Daimoku, which is a Japanese word meaning 'title').

Namu is used in Buddhism as a prefix expressing taking refuge in a Buddha or similar object of veneration. In Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, it represents devotion or conviction in the Mystic Law of Life (Saddharma) as expounded in the Lotus Sutra, not merely as one of many scriptures, but as the ultimate teaching of Buddhism, particularly with regard to Nichiren's interpretation.[citation needed] The use of Nam vs. Namu is, amongst traditional Nichiren schools, a linguistic but not necessarily a dogmatic issue,[11] since u is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese.[citation needed]

Linguistically, Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō consists of the following transliterations:

Namu 南無 "devoted to", from Sanskrit namas

Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law"[12] Myō 妙, from

Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

Kyō 経, from Middle Chinese kjeng, "sutra"

The Lotus Sutra is held by Nichiren Buddhists, as well as practitioners of the Tiantai and corresponding Japanese Tendai schools, to be the culmination of Gautama Buddha's 50 years of teaching. However, followers of Nichiren Buddhism consider Myōhō Renge Kyō to be the name of the ultimate law permeating the universe, and the human being is at one, fundamentally with this law (dharma) and can manifest realization, or Buddha Wisdom (attain Buddhahood), through Buddhist Practice.

The seven characters of the phrase are written down the centre of the gohonzon, the mandala venerated by most Nichiren Buddhists. The veneration towards the mandala is understood by those who believe in it as the veneration for a deeper representation, which they believe to be the Buddha Nature inherent to their own lives

Precise interpretations of Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, how it is pronounced, and its position in Buddhist practice differ slightly among the numerous schools and sub-sects of Nichiren Buddhism, but "I take refuge in (devote or submit myself to) the Wonderful Law of the Lotus Flower Sutra" might serve as a universal translation - wiki
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 00:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.


Listen to this Nichiren Shu priest how to correctly pronounce the Japanese reading of the Chinese (Kanji) characters - Shindoku reading


By the way since we are on the topic of Daimokupronunciation the Japanese pronunciation of Renge is in between R and L but closer to L.

We can say Lenge instead of Renge. It is as the Japanese do when they touch the palate with the tongue when they pronounce La Li Lu Le Lo not Ra Ri Ru RE Ro this is a mistake as is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo which should be Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo from what I have so far been able to ascertain from a non bias standpoint with information presented.

It is easier to pronounce Lenge than Renge as it rolls off the tongue and is easier to pronounce Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo than it is to pronounce Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. Why labour under unnecessary burden if it isn't necessary, isn't life already tough enough


Na mu myo ho ren ge kyo
Namu myoho renge kyo

Nam myo ho ren ge kyo
Nam myoho renge kyo

Myo ho ren ge kyo
Myoho renge kyo


Na mu myo ho len ge kyo
Namu myoho lenge kyo

Nam myo ho len ge kyo
Nam myoho lenge kyo

Myo ho len ge kyo
Myoho lenge kyo
Chas.
2016-09-24 03:09:52 UTC
Permalink
I wonder if Iain has learned from this the utter pointlessness of the Namu versus Nam line of attack.

Hope springs eternal.
_____________________________________

Iain makes a new buddhism, starting by attacking and replacing the SGI and President Ikeda +

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| Does the emphasis modern SGI teaching places on the
||| mentor-disciple relationship help or hinder practice
||| of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's Buddhism?
|||
||| To address this question it is first necessary to define
||| what the SGI means by 'mentor'. The term is used in
||| 6 main ways by SGI:
|||
||| 1) The Law as mentor
||| 2) The Buddha as mentor
||| 3) One or other of the "3 Presidents"
||| 4) Mr Ikeda as mentor
||| 5) A generalised umbrella term that is used to refer to
||| any of 1-5 without being specific 6) A general concept that
||| wraps 1-5 into a 'oneness'
|||

You forgot countless. President Ikeda once called the Gohonzon the true mentor, he has mentioned being mentored by children he talks to, and by Zhou Enlai of China (and many others), and has said the SGI is filled with great mentors and that they should mentor each other.

||| Using this term in so many different senses invites
||| confusion.
|||

The true state of affairs in life is as confusing as hell. So, what?

Mentoring and being mentored in Nichiren Buddhism is good. If I shakubuku someone and they decide to come to a meeting, even if they don't decide to take up the practice and receive the Gohonzon right away, this is still an absolute good. They will without doubt attain enlightenment sooner than they would if they only heard me say Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo when I first invited them (I never, ever, forget to say Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.)

In all three cases the result is guaranteed, so why do I bother trying to get people to come to meetings (acting as their parent and mentor)? The answer is that there is an untold amount of human misery that can happen along the path towards enlightenment and I am a determined enemy of human misery: to diminish and end it, forthwith.

When I was yet unborn but residing in my mother's womb after September 1950, the martyred Tsunesaburo Makiguchi was still the President of the Soka Gakkai. Before my birth in June 1951, Josei Toda became the President of the Soka Gakkai. When I was nine, Daisaku Ikeda became the President of the Soka Gakkai. I claim all three as mentors.

Mr. Toda said, "Abolish human misery," and I have vowed to do so.

||| In terms of the Law and the Buddha, it is unnecessary,
||| since the acts of teaching, learning,  embracing and
||| following are already implicit and explicit. In terms of
||| Nichiren's teaching 'Namu' underscores those actions.
|||
||| It can be helpful to describe the relationship between
||| human mentors and their disciples and a shared mission to
||| accomplish something. The question is should this linear
||| and usually personal relationship be conflated with faith
||| and practice of the Law or relationship with the Buddha?
|||
||| What happens, for instance, if the 'mentor' in the sense
||| of the 3 presidents or Mr Ikeda are at variance with the
||| Law or the Buddha? And if one has conflated them, will one
||| be able to spot if there is a variance?
|||
||| Associating these different usages things together, as is
||| done in 5) and 6), makes it hard to think about them
||| separately.
|||
||| Specifically, if one has got used to thinking about 1-5
||| as a 'oneness', if there is variance, then cognitive
||| dissonance with result. If one has accepted the proposition
||| that it is RIGHT to think of these things as a 'oneness'
||| then the likely response to any dissonance, will be to
||| excuse, overlook or dismiss the incongruity. And that's a
||| problem when it comes to practicing the Law.
|||

So picky. The principle mentor and disciple is about practicing the Lotus Sutra, not theorizing about it. In the Ceremony in the Air, the Buddha preaches the Law and the Bodhisattvas of the Earth arise and vow to receive the Law, protect it and spread it widely. This is an organized action and they had a leader name Jogyo, Superior Practices. They were not theorizing, like Shakyamuni's followers who were monks (and yourself), they were taking action (like President Ikeda and the SGI.)

||| Nichiren's stance is clear, he resisted bringing the Law,
||| The Buddha, The Sutra and spiritual teachers together in
||| this way and in the following passage we can see why.
|||

Baloney, not clear at all. You are simply avoiding doing the hard work of Kosen Rufu, by sitting and meditating about theory and chanting to pagodas.

||| "How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can Attain
||| Buddhahood Through The Lotus Sutra"
|||
|||
||| WND Volume 1 page 872-873
|||
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/110#para-4
|||
||| "A sutra says: 'Rely on the Law and not upon persons.
||| Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words.
||| Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on
||| sutras that are complete and final and not on those that
||| are not complete and final.'
|||
||| The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely
||| upon the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers, but should
||| heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means
||| that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True
||| Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the
||| sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and
||| Wisdom periods, but should uphold the sutras that are
||| complete and final. And by relying upon 'sutras that are
||| complete and final,' it means upholding the Lotus Sutra."
|||
||| By keeping teachers (or mentors) and bodhisattvas
||| separate, he maintains the supremacy of the Law and The
||| Buddha as the spiritual authority. And by making
||| distinctions between the Sutras, he does the same.
|||

You are conflating "True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools" with the SGI and upholding the Lotus Sutra with yourself? You are clearly creating a new Sangha of Iain Buddhism now, by replacing the SGI and President Ikeda with yourself.

Also, the "A sutra" quoted by Nichiren Daishonin is the Nirvana Sutra, which we all know is final, but incomplete, although it is the Buddha's last word and testament. Literalists like yourself would note the inconsistency. Disciples who follow their mentors, like myself, will try to understand and follow the Buddha's last will and testament. That is mentor and disciple, too.

||| Clearly, it was important to him to ensure that his
||| followers understood this but why?
|||
||| Nichiren's writings are full of instances where he argues
||| that 'teachers' can and do lead their disciples astray,
||| specifically away from a correct faith in the Lotus Sutra.
||| He was also went to great lengths to avoid doing that
||| himself, which is why some people refer to Nichiren as a
||| 'scriptural' Buddhist.
|||
||| We can see this approach in the two translations of the
||| following passage:
|||
||| Writings of Nichiren Daishonin Vol , Page 543.
|||
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/66
|||
||| "Your process of questioning is backwards. If I had cited
||| passages from the commentaries of men such as T’ien-t’ai
||| and the others and you had then asked whether there were
||| passages from the sutras and treatises to support them,
||| that I could understand. But since I have already cited
||| sutra passages that clearly prove the argument, it is
||| hardly necessary to ask if there are similar passages in
||| the commentaries. If by chance you found that the sutras
||| and the commentaries disagreed, would you then discard the
||| sutras and follow the commentaries?"
|||
||| Writings of Nichiren Shonin, Doctrine 1, University of
||| Hawaii Press, page 195
|||
||| "Your question is out of order. You may ask for
||| scriptural proofs to back up statements in later
||| commentaries, but you may not look for proofs in later
||| commentaries when the statements in sutras are clear. Are
||| you going to side with commentaries against sutras in cases
||| where you find then contradictory?"
|||

I'm sorry, you can't dismiss Nichiren Daishonin (as a "later commentator" to be ignored) to avoid his admonitions against slander of the Law and towards refuting slander of the Law (which you have), and then quote him to support your attack on his true followers in the SGI.

You yourself said that the Lotus Sutra is the only mentor you will follow, so to be consistent with your denial of Nichiren Daishonin as mentor, please quit quoting him to undermine those true disciples of Nichiren Daishonin that actually follow him closely and carry out his intent by their actions, in the SGI.

You are either with Nichiren Daishonin or you are in Avichi Hell:

From the Orally Transmitted Teachings, p. 138,

... Point Seventeen, on the words "Abandoning restraint, they
... give themselves up to the five desires / and fall into the
... evil paths of existence."
...
... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says:
... "Abandoning restraint" is a term designating slander of
... the Law. Those who do so are without doubt destined to
... fall into the Avichi hell.
...
... But now Nichiren and his followers, who chant
... Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, are exempted from the fate referred
... to in this passage of the sutra.

After summarily dismissing Nichiren Daishonin (have you every called him "Daishonin" in this forum? I think not) and then having the temerity to quote the dismissed Bodhisattva Superior Practices, you then have the utter gall to go on and interpret what he says and re-interpret the Lotus Sutra for yourself.

||| Here Nichiren is setting a priority between reliance on
||| the Sutra and the commentaries.
|||
||| It is not automatically bad to take heed of what teachers
||| or mentors have to say, they may have genuinely useful
||| insights.
|||
||| The issue is about keeping a separation between them and
||| setting the correct hierarchy so that one can evaluate
||| those insights against the benchmark of the Law,  Buddha
||| and (Lotus) Sutra, whist maintaining the priority order
||| that maintains the supremacy of Law, Buddha and Sutra. 
|||
||| In terms of any modern Nichiren sect that claims to
||| practice his teachings, one might add Nichiren's teaching
||| to the end of that pecking order.
|||
||| So we can see by this that the teaching of "the way
||| mentor disciple" as currently used by the SGI is at best
||| unclear and invites confusion in the practice of the Lotus
||| Sutra and at worst is open to abuse.
|||
||| Further more it is at odds with Nichiren's approach.
||| Where he deliberately separated these concepts to avoid
||| risk, the SGI brings then together and invites it.
|||
||| One particular problem is the emphasis with which the
||| mentor is given by some practitioners, which has potential
||| to obstruct their faith and hinder their practice. This
||| results from the general focus that is currently accorded
||| to thus teaching by SGI.
|||
||| It results in strange statements about having a
||| 'supercharged practice' as a result of embracing the mentor
||| or achieving radical life transformation as a result of
||| having 'made a relationship with Sensei (or 'my mentor').
||| As if pure faith in Namu myoho renge kyo and the Gohonzon
||| wasn't enough!
|||

People who have experienced what you have not, try and express their experiences in human terms that you can understand. That is mentoring. Just having faith in the Lotus Sutra and undermining the Sangha that encouraged your practice of that faith, is not a small evil, Iain.

||| Given that Nichiren Buddhism is fundamentally about
||| correct faith in the correct object of worship, this trend
||| should be worrying to any organisation that is concerned
||| with teaching thus Buddhism.
|||
||| There are indications that the focus on the mentor is
||| displacing Namu myoho renge kyo and the Gohonzon and
||| becoming a thing in itself that is considered as the means
||| for salvation.
|||
||| I'm sure some will object, pointing out that SGI continue
||| to chant the Daimoku to the Gohonzon and to teach about
||| Nichiren, the Daimoku and the Gohonzon. This is all true
||| however it's a red herring. It's not that the SGI does
||| these things, it's a question of how and to what degree.
|||
||| Put simply, anything that has the potential to damage
||| correct understanding and correct faith or to divert from a
||| central correct focus on the power of Namu myoho renge kyo
||| and the Gohonzon, should be put aside.
|||
||| We have seen how conflating different things by using the
||| same term to refer to them is not correct in terms of
||| Nichiren's teaching.
|||
||| If one goes further and then states "if one forgets the
||| way of mentor-disciple, one cannot attain enlightenment" as
||| Mr Ikeda does in his 2009 lecture on the Heritage of the
||| Ultimate Law of Life and Death, one can clearly see the
||| danger that Nichiren was warning his disciples about.
|||
||| To assert such a thing is not only irresponsible but it
||| is unsupportable on the basis of the Lotus Sutra and
||| Nichiren's teaching. The Sutra clearly teaches that if one
||| makes a relationship with the Sutra, even if one rejects it
||| or slanders it, one will attain enlightenment. Nichiren
||| teaches the same thing. So how can Mr Ikeda assert such a
||| thing and who do we take as right?
|||

What President Ikeda says is simply a reflection of his experience doing Kosen Rufu and by doing countless shakubuku and leading activities and seeing what has worked and what has not. You have none of that experience, Iain. Those who divide and undermine the Sangha, EVEN WHEN THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT IN SOME SMALL PRINCIPLE, are doing a great evil to the greater Kosen Rufu movement.

Note that the Three Presidents all suffered under the yoke of an absolutely corrupt priesthood, and remained supportive, handing over vast amounts of money and follwing their rituals loyally. It was the ingratitude and jealousy of the NST priesthood that caused THEM to excommunicate US. That was the reward the SGI received from them. We didn't leave them, they kicked us out. We followed Nikko Shonin's admonitions to the bitter end as loyal disciples of the Fuji School. And like a tongue pushed to the side as the rotten tooth of Nichiren Shoshu is extracted from the mouth of the Fuji School, we will remain healthy in spite of their corruption. Their will be peripeteia, a reversal of fortune, for the Fuji School.

||| The answer should be clear based on Nichiren's statements
||| above. Mr Ikeda's teaching is to be disregarded. And yet
||| for many SGI members who have accepted the teaching of
||| mentor-disciple and accepted the notion that it is
||| legitimate to bring different things together to form a
||| oneness, will most probably either miss this variance with
||| the Sutra or find a way explain it away. It is likely that
||| if they have taken Daiseku Ikeda as their mentor that they
||| will favour him and accepted his teaching rather than
||| reject it on the basis of the Sutra.
|||
||| One nutshell, they are likely to reject Nichiren, reverse
||| the priority and assert his supremacy over that of the Law,
||| Buddha, The Sutra and Nichiren. And if they do that, they
||| will have damaged their faith.
|||
||| So, does the teaching of mentor disciple help or hinder
||| practitioners of Nichiren Buddhism? My answer to that is a
||| resounding no.
|||
||| The purpose of a teacher of the Law is to facilitate
||| their students to a correct faith and practice that becomes
||| self motivated and self sustaining and to get out of their
||| way when it does. In a sense it is the most humble role
||| that if done well is as effective as it is invisible.
|||
||| When the student establish a faith and practice that
||| results in the Law pulsing strongly through their lives as
||| it did with the Atsuhara believers the teacher knows they
||| have done what they came to do, it is time to quietly
||| celebrate one's achievement, laud the students achievement
||| and let go.
|||
||| Now that really is a mentor...

I take it that you are the "great teacher" showing President Ikeda and the SGI (and the "later commentator" Nichiren Daishonin) how to do this properly?

I will repeat what I said to you in another post.

I note that your preaching to your new Sangha is an attempt to mentor and collect disciples to your new Buddhism, Iain.

You have identified both Nichiren Daishonin as "later commentators" that you can ignore at your whim, by virtue of your vast wisdom and interpretation of the Lotus Sutra, replacing them both and putting forth your new Iain Buddhism.

There are three treasures, not two.

The Sangha is third of those, and a Sangha must have a
leader to survive.

Hence, not following the Sangha's leader means abandoning
the Sangha and forgoing one of the legs of that three
legged platform for your life.

Even though you misrepresented yourself as a member of
the SGI for two months after you abandoned it, you must
at least comprehend that.

Replacing the Buddha with oneself and stealing the
Buddha's Sangha are the acts of Devadatta, Iain. It all
starts out with lies and ends in misery.

Here's the initial revealing of the misrepresentation,
complete with putting the blame on others for your
actions:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/eVElZxnOADY/fJGOdGdhDAAJ

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 8:59:06 AM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| Oh and on a related note, I parted company with SGI on
||| the last day of 2015 and have been remiss in thanking you
||| for enabling me to understand how far it had drifted from
||| the organisation I joined (and would still join if it
||| taught the sane things and facilitated the sane pure
||| faith). I owe you a great debt of gratitude. :D

Note that the disciples are collecting already at the
bottom of that list of posts.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 9:13:22 PM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| *applause* Iain your posts continue to give me life and
||| are a source of encouragement. Thank you. Daily life is
||| busy so at the moment i do not have time to post or even
||| read. But i do have a question I would like to get answered
||| from the gosho steeped people of this forum so will post
||| later.
||| Happy Thursday.

Here's the first failed attempt to form a Sangha outside
ARBN, which failed utterly [with Julian's responses],
which is why you continue to attempt to make this
forum your new Sangha:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/RULYUjCHykc/eHiAld6SEAAJ
||| Thanks Chas, I know it wasn't directed at me and I've
||| guessed there's a history between David and you, lool I've
||| seen some of the exchanges here and on Narchive! Still, I
||| found it surprising and I restate that I don't think you do
||| that, at least I hope you wouldn't!!!
|||
||| Odd that you're having posts blocked, I haven't had
||| that at all but hey. So what do you reckon? Shall we move
||| out of the wild west and into a moderated forum? What's
||| your vote? Alex? David? Mark? Anyone else?
|||
||| If we want to do that, I'd want to set some ground
||| rules we could agree on and that keep the forum lively,
||| free yet not prone to excesses of objectionable posting.
||| Provided that's agreed and stated up front, very happy to
||| moderate a group on that basis...
|||
||| What say you guys? :)
I'm not interested in moderated fora unless I, alone, am
the moderator.
Even then it would be too tiresome to keep my interest
beyond a day
or so.
||| OK, thanks Julian, that's a pity. Not even if it's a
||| loosely moderated forum and moderated openly to jointly
||| agreed criteria? If you change your mind, let me know. I
||| hope you're doing well by the way. Happy New Year to you :)
|||
In my experience, invariably, the moderators go insane
corrupted by even so little power.
I have nothing to add there.

-Chas.
Katie Higgins
2016-09-24 04:21:38 UTC
Permalink
I wonder why it escapes the notice of the *learned* commenters that Nichiren did not write about phonetics, rhythm or the *sound* of daimoku. He wrote the seven characters Na-mu-myto-ho-ren-ge-kyo. You will notice they are written in the center of the Gohonzon.- all seven characters.

Nichiren wrote about the *meaning* not the sound of the daimoku. So, all of the comments here - statements, like, "Nichiren did this, or that-" are your arbitrary opinions. Nichiren WROTE, extensively and in great detail regarding the Essential teachings. Not once did he mention *harmonious rhythmic chanting by groups of believers."; not once did he suggest that unity was created through *sound*- Nichiren wrote about the single mind of faith; achieving this mind of pure faith in Myoho-renge-kyo, the Lotus Sutra and reverence for Shakyamuni Buddha enables one to act in unity with others who have also attained the *one mind of faith*--
Keep adding on your hidden meanings*; *speculations* and wishful thinking--- and you get further away from the Nichiren's Buddhism and closer to sectarian *personal agenda* Buddhism.

"Nammers" are attached to their own image; their own egos-- and nowhere is this more evident than in the comments of SGIkeda PR man, Chas.

Nichiren is clear and direct. There is no substance to this *argument*-- Those how have a seeking mind for his teachings know where to seek Nichiren's teachings-- and where NOT to seek them.

It is just that simple.
~Katie
n***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 10:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Folks this is a post by Katie the Devils Courtesan in which her disciple Lainx asked me to prove the fact that Katie is a Gohonzon Burner who actually takes PLEASURE in her sick and demented perversions. Here it is Lainx

"Katie Higgins
You are just angry at Nichikan, because he cleared out all the statue-worshipers from the Fuji School. And the statues, too. I can tell you form experience, that his Gohonzon works just fine: the source is not muddy and the stream flows clear.
-Chas.
Clearing out 3 Nichikan no-honzons in one very respectful ceremony-- burning them as offerings to Devadatta... was an experience as profoundly joyful as my first encounter with daimoku in August 1988.

Whatever Nichikan did-- he is no longer infecting my home or polluting my faith--. RIP Nichikan!! (probably not)

I enshrined a Nichiren Prayer Gohonzon--, again, a profoundly joy filled experience!

I don't think Chas or anyone can appreciate the difference in authentic v. counterfeit Gohonzons unless you experience it , up close and first hand--

https://markrogow.blogspot.com/2015/10/nichiren-and-shakyamuni-buddha-or.html#comment-form

Pictures speak directly to this phenomenon.

Don't you find?
~Katie"

Now what do you think of this sick WITCH!

Sincerely, Richard
Katie Higgins
2016-09-24 16:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the publicity Richard--

I hope all who read here to study ONLY Nichiren's writings, the Lotus Sutra-- chant Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo-- to fully embrace and develop their OWN faith--

That's the WAY Nichiren taught his practice Richard--

Surely, you don't imagine yourself wiser than Nichiren??

BTW, your use of deprecating language and your *behavior*-- 11 postings of this same copied rubbish is pretty revealing of . your practice--

"The poison has penetrated deeply"

And the evidence is here in writing !!

Thanks, again for assisting iainx, Mark and myself to share the True teachings of Nichiren Daishonin!!

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 17:42:09 UTC
Permalink
"I wonder if Iain has learned from this the utter pointlessness of the Namu versus Nam line of attack"

Yes, I have indeed Chas, I have learned that focussing on intention has brought more voices into the mix and has generated a healthy debate.

And if you read my reply to Alex, you would have understoid this well. So I repost the relevant part of my response below, you can read the whole thing above at the end of your shift.

"To do this, I focussed on Namu and on intention, which was the start of my post.

In all but SGI, Namu is always written Namu. So it seemed appropriate to dwell on that. I accept the pronunciation differs as Jigoku points out from region to region and also that intention is the key element, whether one chants Namu. The heart is important.

I was being playful in my post to make a serious point and have been really heartened by the discussion that ensued. Every contributor apart from Chas has added something valuable to that discussion, so thank you all! I have really appreciated it, as my response to Jigoku shows.

On a related note, because of SGI's use of 'daimoku' chanted not with any aim to contemplate or master the mind but as simply an empty ritual where members are encouraged to look outwards to create some weird bond with Dausaku Ikeda, that practice, for those people, has become tainted by that association.

Therefore, to provide a route back to faith for those people and to free them from that association, adoption of Namu, with a focus on it's meaning, will enable them to grasp the Law correctly.

Making the change requires that they become mindful of what they are doing and why. That the Daimoku should be abke to provide it's own reset button in this way is awesome. At one fell swoop, those poor SGI folk can start to engage correctly. If they do that, I have no doubt that The Buddha and The Law will take it from there."

Be well :)
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 18:33:28 UTC
Permalink
To Noel, I offer welcome and a gentle correction, have I not always been inclusive and treated you with repect?

If you read my reply to Alex and reflect on your own stated goal of the importance of what we are devoted too rather than pronunciation, will you not see the accord?

Please look carefully at my reply to Alex. Please look carefully at it's reasoning. If you can tell me that Nichirem sometimes wrote Nam and that Japanese people have the same debate because sometimes he wrote Nam and othertimes Namu, on some Gohonzon it is written Nam on others Namu, then that is an end of the matter, I am wrong.

If you cannot tell me that,then just perhaps, the noise and confusion amongst non Japanese speakers just goes to prove the point that the way Nam has been introduced in translation into English and other languages to be written bases on a lical pronunciation has produced more confusion than it has avoided.

We disagree on this issue Noel, for the reasons I set out but read my reply to Alex carefully, please note that it is The Buddha and The Law who are the teachers and faith and intention that are impprtant. I may disagree with the points you have argued but have I ever disparaged you? Please do me justice and reflect on this. I think I have not and have been careful no so to do. If I am in error and have, please point this out and I will acknolwledge and apologise for that. Otherwise I know that if I have not, I know you will do likewise as you have before. I have seen this in you.

What Chas and Richard seek to stoke is fragmentation, to turn one against the other. Create and exploit division so the SGI profit motive can rule.

It is up to each of us to ensure our root is the Sutra and to focus more firmly on the strength and quality of our faith. To do that, I suggest we each return to the a single focus on the Law and The Buddha.

Ultimately, that is a personal choice, as I have said. We can repeat the history of the SGI's decline, it's loss of half it's members and the division it has amplified the Nichiren landscape or we can go with the tide of history amd take return to the unity that existed before sectarian schisms started to cleave Nichiren's glorious work.

I quote from the Sutra, aptly Medicinal Herbs:

"I have no mind to favour this or that,

to love one or hate another.

I am without greed or attachment

and without limitation or hindrance.

At all times, for all things

I preach the Law equally;

as I would for a single person,

that same way I do for numerous persons."

This is the medicine that enables transcendance of difference and is brought forth by our practice of faith.

Can each of us say we have this mind? If we do not and at times we do not, we are not in buddhahood. This is the enlightened mind, that we each have, let's use it eh? There is no one in this Saha world who is not deluded, sincere practitioners can help each other or we can fight and entrench our delusional differences just as Daisaku and his corporation loves to do. There is profit in war.

It is upto us. Each of us. What will you do?

My reply to Alex, my response to Jigoku and my response to John Tate show what I will do. My responses to you Noel too, show what I do. None of us are perfect, we agould oerhaps remember, that's why we practice faith and chant.

And on the other side? Well scroll through Chas's and his cohort's hate, read his many duplicate threads. Decide for yourself, which company you will decide to keep.

Whatever you do, please be well :)
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 23:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
To Noel, I offer welcome and a gentle correction, have I not always been inclusive and treated you with repect?
If you read my reply to Alex and reflect on your own stated goal of the importance of what we are devoted too rather than pronunciation, will you not see the accord?
Please look carefully at my reply to Alex. Please look carefully at it's reasoning. If you can tell me that Nichirem sometimes wrote Nam and that Japanese people have the same debate because sometimes he wrote Nam and othertimes Namu, on some Gohonzon it is written Nam on others Namu, then that is an end of the matter, I am wrong.
If you cannot tell me that,then just perhaps, the noise and confusion amongst non Japanese speakers just goes to prove the point that the way Nam has been introduced in translation into English and other languages to be written bases on a lical pronunciation has produced more confusion than it has avoided.
We disagree on this issue Noel, for the reasons I set out but read my reply to Alex carefully, please note that it is The Buddha and The Law who are the teachers and faith and intention that are impprtant. I may disagree with the points you have argued but have I ever disparaged you? Please do me justice and reflect on this. I think I have not and have been careful no so to do. If I am in error and have, please point this out and I will acknolwledge and apologise for that. Otherwise I know that if I have not, I know you will do likewise as you have before. I have seen this in you.
What Chas and Richard seek to stoke is fragmentation, to turn one against the other. Create and exploit division so the SGI profit motive can rule.
It is up to each of us to ensure our root is the Sutra and to focus more firmly on the strength and quality of our faith. To do that, I suggest we each return to the a single focus on the Law and The Buddha.
Ultimately, that is a personal choice, as I have said. We can repeat the history of the SGI's decline, it's loss of half it's members and the division it has amplified the Nichiren landscape or we can go with the tide of history amd take return to the unity that existed before sectarian schisms started to cleave Nichiren's glorious work.
"I have no mind to favour this or that,
to love one or hate another.
I am without greed or attachment
and without limitation or hindrance.
At all times, for all things
I preach the Law equally;
as I would for a single person,
that same way I do for numerous persons."
This is the medicine that enables transcendance of difference and is brought forth by our practice of faith.
Can each of us say we have this mind? If we do not and at times we do not, we are not in buddhahood. This is the enlightened mind, that we each have, let's use it eh? There is no one in this Saha world who is not deluded, sincere practitioners can help each other or we can fight and entrench our delusional differences just as Daisaku and his corporation loves to do. There is profit in war.
It is upto us. Each of us. What will you do?
My reply to Alex, my response to Jigoku and my response to John Tate show what I will do. My responses to you Noel too, show what I do. None of us are perfect, we agould oerhaps remember, that's why we practice faith and chant.
And on the other side? Well scroll through Chas's and his cohort's hate, read his many duplicate threads. Decide for yourself, which company you will decide to keep.
Whatever you do, please be well :)
Hi lain nice to meet you here in another the Nichiren Buddhist Warzone with its oasis of integral truths here and there that remind us of the common ground that we all share like your quote from the Sutra,aptly Medicinal Herbs...

I copied and pasted from Eagle Peack blog where I've been conversing with Mark Rogow, Katie Higgins, Greg Romero and Mudpie Boi over this issue. I was retaliating towards them not you, sorry if I've offended you I should be more careful in how I redirect my posts. I edited some of them so they would appear less confronting to those that are angry and hateful towards me for presenting information and my point of view .

These links are from the conversations on this topic that's opened a can of worms. I leave this to ARBN participants to discern for themselves with what I have to contend with

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/dropping-chracter-mu.html

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/it-is-more-important-to-tell-potential.html

"Please look carefully at my reply to Alex. Please look carefully at it's reasoning. If you can tell me that Nichirem sometimes wrote Nam and that Japanese people have the same debate because sometimes he wrote Nam and other times Namu, on some Gohonzon it is written Nam on others Namu, then that is an end of the matter, I am wrong."

Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

There is no Nammerscammer going on here but only the desire to uncover the truth of the matter

The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na is derived from NAN/minami (south) and the character 無 MU has multiple pronunciations MU,BU,nai/shi that mean NOT,NONE,CEASE TO BE (nothing) are used to express devotion

The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit Namas that means to dedicate one's life

Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo of the Gohonzon is only written in Chinese characters have many different ways of pronunciation there is no one specific way to pronounce Chinese symbols

I am personally more interested in what it is to what we are devoted to rather the pronunciation of the word that we use to express devotion of the Law of NMRK but since it keeps being brought to my attention I share my understanding from a different perspective that may not have come up before which is all about promoting healthy debate


If we understand, tried to understand, or become one with the Law, would it matter if we say Nam or Namu Myoho Renge Kyo , Dropping or not dropping the pronunciation of the character Mu or even use both like the NST or SGI do..

Would this stop the eternal Buddha's work in our lives...come on lets get real and not create a fools paradise here even though we may have good intentions like the path that leads to Hell

Myoho Lenge is the essence if we truly understand this all else is quite trivial...yes!!!

Its all about the sincerity of heart that really counts. How could one be denied access to the Law if they didn't add Mu or drop it. I believe that the Law is bigger than that but if it wasn't I would have nothing to do with if it was as trivial as that
JazzIs TvRicky
2016-09-24 22:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Where in Nichiren's writings or the Lotus Sutra can you prove your made up assertions? Where dose Nichiren say what you have just said?
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 22:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Which bit Dickie?
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 22:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Well if you think they are made up Dickie then it is up to you to state which ones you think are made up and for you to offer counter evidence to refute them. Good luck with that.

Be well :)
JazzIs TvRicky
2016-09-25 12:54:56 UTC
Permalink
No Lainx you back hem up with doctrine or admit you are unable to. Notice folks that Lainx is the only consistent user of 'I'. His ego and arrogance supported by very little Doctrne are evident to all. And he never responds with Sutra in hand unless you call Buddhism in Action or Ikeda's lectures Doctrine. This is evident in his consistent and absence of Doctrinal References. Yet he tells you how to study Nichiren's Teaching's and what Nichiren is saying from his perspective as though he is an unequivocal expert in faith. I challege him or anyone else here to debate Nichiren's Teachings and what they are saying concerning the practice of faith.

Sincerely,Richard H Brown A Votary of the Lotus Sutra

Note: I will not engage or waste my or anyone else's time with posts which are unreasonably long and deceptive.
Chas.
2016-09-25 14:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Iain needs to fear slander of the Law, as Nichiren Daishonin and his followers do +

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/5DLc_yCbSgA/gowoHAHtFQAJ
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 11:18:32 AM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| Here's one for you Chas..."BOO!"...
|||
||| I know I shouldn't do that to people wracked with
||| phobias (irrational fears), who are scared of their own
||| shadow (not to mention, hell, yakuza, martial arts,
||| alternative healing arts, most movies, porn stars,
||| anything that could possibly touched toxic Zen, recycling
||| - probably - see the toxic Zen point) but I can't resist.
|||
||| There is a great way to overcome those phobias apart
||| from some good professional intervention. I know of a
||| really good practice that reliably brings forth the
||| qualities of wisdom, courage and compassion...not to
||| mention abundant life-force.
|||
||| Let me know if you're interested. It's not hard to
||| learn, can be bit difficult to carry on, like anything -
||| gym, diet, etc. etc.
|||
||| But do watch out for the cowboys, they'll have you
||| thinking you need to buy it and that you have to do extra
||| things for it to work AND they don't teach it right - well
||| they have to keep adding things to convince you theirs is
||| unique and change the formula to keep you hooked and keep
||| it profitable.
|||
||| It's - like soap powder really, you end up with less
||| active ingredient, mixed with with lots of useless crap
||| and you end up paying through the nose - advertising and
||| marketing costs.
|||
||| In some cases those additives are harmful, just like the
||| bakers additives in years gone by or the modern
||| equivalents that have made it into diets worldwide
||| especially in USA and UK...
|||
||| But you don't need those branded spiritual "products",
||| the original is simple, cheap and much more effective,
||| ditch the personal trainer, get a better results and save
||| yourself lots of money and harm.
|||
||| What about spiritual humanism, helping suffering people?
||| Oh well if you want to join an organisation that's
||| focussed on that well there are lots of aid agencies but
||| be careful, charities and "humanitarian" orgs. in
||| particular have a reputation for using this as a cover.
|||
||| You want to check out their finances in particular and
||| their mission statement. There should be independent
||| scrutiny and evidence on how effective they are at
||| achieving their goals and maximising use of their
||| donations. They should have good governance and financial
||| transparency and control.
|||
||| For example, a few have been found to be diverting funds
||| away from their primary goals and the people they're
||| supposed to be helping. In such orgs, a high percentage is
||| spent on administration costs, chief executive and senior
||| leaders salaries, plush offices, unnecessary technology
||| advertising, unnecessary real estate acquisition, vanity
||| projects, consultant costs, political lobbying,
||| entertaining etc.
|||
||| That leaves little to actually help the people they are
||| supposed to be helping or achieve the mission they are
||| supposed to be focused on.
|||
||| Three religious organisations provide a comparison to
||| SGI and a prompt for further research. SGI is by no means
||| the only player in this spiritual arena that espouses the
||| warm and fluffy values that it pushes forward. It was
||| distinct in its faith, belief in Gohonzon and Daimoku but
||| it seems not the quite understand what it teaches it
||| believes anymore or at least keeps changing it. Current
||| flavour of the month is 'mentor-disciple'
|||
||| Arguably there are other organisations that are much
||| more effective and from whom SGI may have borrowed.
|||
|||
||| The Quakers seem to have a good rep.
|||
||| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers
|||
||| Originally from the UK, they seem to keep it small in an
||| organisational sense but are very good at putting their
||| beliefs into action, they've been doing it well for
||| centuries. The SGI deems to have borrowed quite a lot of
||| their approach, turned it into rhetoric but hasn't modeled
||| their organisation along Quaker lines and their sense of
||| equality of faith either.
|||
||| There's Tzu Chi, seems very good at actually helping
||| people in crisis and responding to disasters.
|||
||| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzu_Chi
|||
||| Started in the 60's from a sewing circle of 6 people.
||| Also Lotus Sutra based but non Nichiren. Some
||| controversies.
|||
||| In the Nichiren line there's Rissho Kosei Kai. They
||| chant Daimoku but it's a different focus.
|||
||| Established before Mr Toda's Nichiren Shoshu Soka
||| Gakkai, it's entirely possible that RKK may have provided
||| NSSG (SGI) with some of the templates that the latter then
||| adopted for its organisational activities/structure. The
||| similarities are stiking. Equally, RKK may have learned
||| from NSSG (SGI). It's likely the two nay have learned
||| from each other but RKK seems to have attracted less
||| critical press, be generally well-regarded and better at
||| delivering practical help.
|||
||| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risshō_Kōsei_Kai
|||
||| Is very good on interfaith, seems quite good on
||| campaigning to end poverty and hunger, some controversies
||| but generally seems to be effective and we'll thought of.
||| Has a similar discussion meeting type thing going on. Not
||| sure about financial transparency though. Might be worth
||| futher checking out.

A phobia is a psychological condition that you are uncredited to diagnose, that being an unreasonable fear of something that can only be feared by an irrational person.

You think you are making light of me (and WHO would care about THAT), but in fact you are making light of Nichiren Daishonin and the Lotus Sutra.

Iain, you should fear slander of the Law more than fearing attack or disapproval from the authorities, or from your peer group, or from the risk of death itself. Nichiren speaks volumes on this one topic, and in fact he never fails to warn his followers and whomever he is writing to, with regards to fearing slander of the Law. I will highlight the key points in UPPERCASE, so that you won't miss them, this time.

This on evil friends and mad elephants, from "On the Protection of the Nation", WND II

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/181#para-347
... Therefore the Nirvana Sutra states: “Bodhisattvas and
... mahāsattvas, have no fear of mad elephants. WHAT YOU SHOULD
... FEAR ARE EVIL FRIENDS! WHY? BECAUSE A MAD ELEPHANT CAN ONLY
... DESTROY YOUR BODY; IT CANNOT DESTROY YOUR MIND. BUT AN EVIL
... FRIEND CAN DESTROY BOTH BODY AND MIND. A MAD ELEPHANT CAN
... DESTROY ONLY A SINGLE BODY, BUT AN EVIL FRIEND CAN DESTROY
... COUNTLESS GOOD BODIES AND COUNTLESS GOOD MINDS. A MAD
... ELEPHANT MERELY DESTROYS AN IMPURE, STINKING BODY, BUT AN
... EVIL FRIEND CAN DESTROY BOTH PURE BODY AND PURE MIND. A MAD
... ELEPHANT CAN DESTROY THE PHYSICAL BODY, BUT AN EVIL FRIEND
... DESTROYS THE DHARMA BODY. EVEN IF YOU ARE KILLED BY A MAD
... ELEPHANT, YOU WILL NOT FALL INTO THE THREE EVIL PATHS. BUT
... IF YOU ARE KILLED BY AN EVIL FRIEND, YOU ARE CERTAIN TO
... FALL INTO THEM. A MAD ELEPHANT IS MERELY AN ENEMY OF YOUR
... BODY, BUT AN EVIL FRIEND IS AN ENEMY OF THE GOOD LAW.
... THEREFORE, BODHISATTVAS, YOU SHOULD AT ALL TIMES KEEP FAR
... AWAY FROM EVIL FRIENDS.”

And also this on the same topic, from "Reply to Hoshina Gōrō Tarō", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/15#para-16

... Yet it should be known that, while the non-Buddhist
... practitioners possessed such impressive powers, they could
... not escape the flames of the Avīchi hell, not to mention
... those with only trivial powers of transformation. Even
... less can slanderers of the great vehicle avoid this fate.
... The priests of the True Word school are evil friends to
... all living beings. Avoid them; fear them. The Buddha
... states: “Have no fear of mad elephants. WHAT YOU SHOULD
... FEAR ARE EVIL FRIENDS! Why? Because a mad elephant can
... only destroy your body; it cannot destroy your mind. But
... an evil friend can destroy both body and mind. A mad
... elephant can destroy only a single body, but an evil
... friend can destroy countless bodies and countless minds. A
... mad elephant merely destroys an impure, stinking body, but
... an evil friend can destroy both pure body and pure mind. A
... mad elephant can destroy the physical body, but an evil
... friend destroys the Dharma body. Even if you are killed by
... a mad elephant, you will not fall into the three evil
... paths. But if you are killed by an evil friend, you are
... certain to fall into them. A mad elephant is merely an
... enemy of your body, but an evil friend is an enemy of the
... good Law.” THEREFORE, EVEN MORE THAN VENOMOUS SERPENTS
... OR MALEVOLENT DEMONS, ONE SHOULD FEAR THE EVIL FRIENDS WHO
... FOLLOW KŌBŌ, SHAN-TAO, AND HŌNEN. THIS IS JUST A BRIEF
... CLARIFICATION OF THE ERROR OF HOLDING DISTORTED VIEWS.

And then also this, from "What It Means to Slander the Law", WND II

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/188#para-84

... Answer: The various sutras say that one should shun the
... company of women, but I would point to the passage in the
... Nirvana Sutra, which the Buddha preached in the grove of
... sal trees just before his death: “Bodhisattvas! Though you
... can perceive the countless faults and ailings that attach
... to and beset your bodies, because you have made up your
... minds to accept and abide by the Nirvana Sutra, it will
... guide and protect you and will not cause you to be
... lacking. Bodhisattvas, have no fear of mad elephants. WHAT
... YOU SHOULD FEAR ARE EVIL FRIENDS! WHY? BECAUSE A MAD
... ELEPHANT CAN ONLY DESTROY YOUR BODY; IT CANNOT DESTROY
... YOUR MIND. BUT AN EVIL FRIEND CAN DESTROY BOTH BODY AND
... MIND. A MAD ELEPHANT CAN DESTROY ONLY A SINGLE BODY, BUT
... AN EVIL FRIEND CAN DESTROY COUNTLESS GOOD BODIES AND
... COUNTLESS GOOD MINDS. . . . EVEN IF YOU ARE KILLED BY A
... MAD ELEPHANT, YOU WILL NOT FALL INTO THE THREE EVIL PATHS.
... BUT IF YOU ARE KILLED BY AN EVIL FRIEND, YOU ARE CERTAIN
... TO FALL INTO THEM.”
...
... The meaning of this passage is that, if one cares about
... the next life, ONE SHOULD FEAR ALL KINDS OF CAUSES THAT
... LEAD TO REBIRTH IN THE EVIL PATHS. BUT EVEN MORE THAN SUCH
... CAUSES, ONE SHOULD FEAR EVIL FRIENDS OR TEACHERS.

In this passage Nichiren Daishonin goes into much detail describing precisely how the evil friending process works with deception and flattery, etc. Seems reminiscent of someone in this forum, yes?

From "On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra", WND II

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/186#para-42
... Therefore the “Encouraging Devotion” chapter reads: “In a
... muddied kalpa, in an evil age there will be many things to
... fear. Evil demons will take possession of others and
... through them curse, revile, and heap shame on us. . . .
... [The evil monks of that muddied age], failing to understand
... the Buddha’s expedient means, how he preaches the Law in
... accordance with what is appropriate . . .” This passage
... means that, in that muddied and evil age, monks will fail
... to understand that the teachings they put their faith in
... are no more than an expedient means preached by the Buddha
... in accordance with what is appropriate. Thus when persons
... appear who clearly distinguish between the provisional
... teachings and the true teaching, these monks will revile
... them and attempt to refute their arguments. This is all
... because evil demons have taken possession of them, although
... they are not aware that this has happened.
...
... THEREFORE, WHAT THE UNINFORMED PEOPLE OF THIS LATTER AGE
... SHOULD MOST FEAR ARE NOT SWORDS AND STAVES OR TIGERS AND
... WOLVES, OR PERSONS WHO COMMIT THE TEN EVIL ACTS OR THE FIVE
... CARDINAL SINS, BUT RATHER THOSE MONKS WHO ARE EQUIPPED WITH
... THREE ROBES AND ONE BEGGING BOWL, THOSE BENIGHTED
... PRACTITIONERS OF ZEN, AND THE LAY BELIEVERS WHO ESTEEM
... MONKS WHO FOLLOW THE PROVISIONAL TEACHINGS AND HATE THOSE
... WHO PRACTICE THE TRUE TEACHING.
...
... For this reason, the twenty-second volume of the Nirvana
... Sutra states: “Have no fear of mad elephants. WHAT YOU
... SHOULD FEAR ARE EVIL FRIENDS! WHY? BECAUSE A MAD ELEPHANT
... CAN ONLY DESTROY YOUR BODY; IT CANNOT DESTROY YOUR MIND.
... BUT AN EVIL FRIEND CAN DESTROY BOTH BODY AND MIND. . . .
... EVEN IF YOU ARE KILLED BY A MAD ELEPHANT, YOU WILL NOT FALL
... INTO THE THREE EVIL PATHS. BUT IF YOU ARE KILLED BY AN EVIL
... FRIEND, YOU ARE CERTAIN TO FALL INTO THEM.”
...
... Regarding the meaning of this sutra passage, the Great
... Teacher Chang-an says: “MAD ELEPHANTS MERELY INFLICT HARM
... ON OTHERS; THEY DO NOT AROUSE EVIL IN PEOPLE’S MINDS. BUT
... EVIL FRIENDS EMPLOY ENTICING WORDS, DECEPTION AND FLATTERY,
... CLEVER SPEECH AND AN AFFABLE MANNER, AND IN THIS WAY CAUSE
... OTHERS TO DO EVIL. AND IN LEADING THEM TO DO EVIL, THEY
... ARE DESTROYING THE GOOD MINDS THAT ARE IN THEM. TO DESTROY
... GOOD MINDS IS TO KILL PEOPLE, THAT IS, TO CAUSE THEM TO
... FALL INTO HELL.”
...
... THIS PASSAGE OF COMMENTARY MEANS THAT EVIL FRIENDS WILL
... EMPLOY ENTICING WORDS, DECEPTION AND FLATTERY AND SPEAK IN
... A CLEVER MANNER, THEREBY GAINING CONTROL OVER THE MINDS OF
... IGNORANT AND UNINFORMED PEOPLE AND DESTROYING THE GOOD
... MINDS THAT ARE IN THEM. AND THE PASSAGE FROM THE NIRVANA
... SUTRA IS MEANT TO WARN US THAT PERSONS WHO SLANDER THE LAW
... AND ARE ICCHANTIKAS ARE MORE TO BE FEARED THAN THOSE WHO
... COMMIT THE TEN EVIL ACTS OR THE FIVE CARDINAL SINS. THE
... TERM “ICCHANTIKA” REFERS TO THOSE WHO SPEAK EVIL OF THE
... LOTUS AND NIRVANA SUTRAS.

In the Letter to Niike, WND I, Nichiren Daishonin warns us that simply associating with slanderers: "those with impure hearts" (beyond the point of shakubuku) is complicity.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/145#para-8
... Neither Buddhas nor gods would ever accept contributions
... from those who slander the correct teaching. Then how can
... we human beings accept them? The deity of Kasuga Shrine
... proclaimed through an oracle that he would accept nothing
... from those with impure hearts, though he should have to
... eat the flames of burning copper; that he would refuse to
... set foot in their homes, though he should have to sit on
... red-hot copper. He would rather come down to a miserable
... hut with weeds choking the passageway, or to a poor
... thatched house. He declared that he would never visit
... persons lacking in faith, even if they hung sacred
... festoons for a thousand days to welcome him, but that he
... would go to a house where the people have a mind of
... faith, even though they might be in mourning for a
... parent. Lamenting that slanderers have overrun this
... country, the benevolent gods have abandoned it and
... ascended to heaven. “THOSE WITH IMPURE HEARTS” MEANS
... THOSE WHO REFUSE TO EMBRACE THE LOTUS SUTRA, AS IS STATED
... IN THE FIFTH VOLUME OF THE SUTRA. If the gods themselves
... regard alms from slanderers as more abominable than the
... flames of burning copper, how could we human beings
... possibly accept them? If someone were to kill our parents
... and then try to offer us some gift, could we possibly
... accept it? NOT EVEN WISE PERSONS OR SAGES CAN AVOID THE
... HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING IF THEY ACCEPT OFFERINGS FROM
... SLANDERERS. NOR SHOULD YOU ASSOCIATE WITH SLANDERERS, FOR
... IF YOU DO, YOU WILL SHARE THE SAME GUILT AS THEY. THIS
... YOU SHOULD FEAR ABOVE ALL.
...
... Shakyamuni Buddha is the father, sovereign, and teacher
... of all the other Buddhas and all the gods, of the whole
... assembly of human and heavenly beings, and of all living
... beings. How could the heavenly gods and benevolent
... deities rejoice if the Buddha were killed? Today all the
... people of our country have proved to be enemies of
... Shakyamuni Buddha, but more than laymen or laywomen, it
... is the priests with perverse wisdom and hearts who are
... the Buddha’s worst enemies. There are two kinds of
... wisdom, correct and perverse. NO MATTER HOW WISE A PERSON
... MAY APPEAR, IF HIS ASSERTIONS ARE WARPED YOU SHOULD NOT
... LISTEN TO HIM. NOR SHOULD YOU FOLLOW PRIESTS MERELY
... BECAUSE THEY ARE VENERABLE OR OF HIGH RANK. But if a
... person has the wisdom to know the true meaning of the
... Lotus Sutra, no matter how lowly he may appear, pay
... respect to him and make offerings to him as though he
... were a living Thus Come One . Thus it is written in the
... sutra. That is why the Great Teacher Dengyō says that
... the men and women who believe in this sutra, even if they
... lack knowledge or violate the precepts, should be seated
... above priests who observe all two hundred and fifty
... precepts of the Hinayana teachings, and never be seated
... in a humble position, and that this is all the more true
... of the priests of this Mahayana sutra.

And complicity in slander is a complex and wide-reaching phenomenon: for individuals, for families and for countries. Hence the importance of the Kosen Rufu movement and the profound punishment that comes from undermining it. From the "Letter to Akimoto", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/144#para-25

... In practicing the teaching of the Lotus Sutra, there are
... three principles that must be understood. The first is
... that regarding slanderers. The monk Superior Intent, the
... monk Shore of Suffering, the Scholar Vimalamitra, and the
... Great Arrogant Brahman are examples. These men dressed
... their bodies in the three robes, lifted a single begging
... bowl up before their eyes, and meticulously observed the
... two hundred and fifty precepts, and yet they were in fact
... enemies of the Mahayana and in the end fell into the great
... citadel of the hell of incessant suffering.
...
... In recent times in Japan there have been men like Kōbō,
... Jikaku, and Chishō who observed the precepts just as those
... earlier monks did and who did not differ from them in
... wisdom. But because they asserted that the True Word
... teaching of the Mahāvairochana Sutra ranked first and the
... Lotus Sutra ranked second or third, if my view of the
... matter should by any chance be correct, they are now in
... the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering.
...
... IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO UTTER SUCH WORDS, AND STILL MORE
... DOES ONE HESITATE TO PUT THEM INTO WRITING. BUT WHEN THE
... BUDDHA HIMSELF HAS DECLARED THAT THE LOTUS SUTRA IS
... FOREMOST, IF ONE LEARNS OF A PERSON WHO RANKS IT SECOND OR
... THIRD AND, OUT OF FEAR OF OTHER PEOPLE OR OF GOVERNMENT
... AUTHORITIES, FAILS TO SPEAK OUT, THEN “ONE IS IN FACT HIS
... ENEMY,” THAT IS, ONE IS ACTING AS A FEARFUL ENEMY TO ALL
... LIVING BEINGS. THIS IS STATED IN BOTH THE SUTRAS AND THE
... COMMENTARIES, AND SO I SPEAK OUT.
...
... TO SPEAK OUT WITHOUT FEARING OTHERS AND WITHOUT FLINCHING
... BEFORE SOCIETY—THIS IS WHAT THE SUTRA MEANS WHEN IT SAYS,
... “WE CARE NOTHING FOR OUR BODIES OR LIVES BUT ARE ANXIOUS
... ONLY FOR THE UNSURPASSED WAY.”
...
... It is not that one does not recall the calumny, the staves
... and stones that were suffered by Bodhisattva Never
... Disparaging. It is not that one is unafraid of the world.
... It is just that the censure of the Lotus Sutra is even
... more severe. It is like the case of Sukenari and
... Tokimune, who acted as they did even though they found
... themselves in the camp of the shogun, because they longed
... to avenge themselves upon their enemy and were
... ashamed at the thought of failing to do so.
...
... THE ABOVE IS THE PRINCIPLE RELATING TO INDIVIDUAL
... SLANDERERS.
...
... AS FOR THE FAMILIES OF SLANDERERS, THE FAMILY MEMBERS MAY
... PASS THEIR ENTIRE LIVES WITHOUT SLANDERING THE LOTUS
... SUTRA. BUT EVEN THOUGH THEY PRACTICE IT EVERY HOUR OF THE
... DAY AND NIGHT, THE FACT THAT THEY WERE BORN INTO THE
... FAMILY OF A SLANDERER MEANS THAT THEY WILL INVARIABLY BE
... REBORN IN THE HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING. For example,
... those persons who were born into the family of the monk
... Superior Intent or the monk Shore of Suffering and became
... their disciples or lay supporters all fell, against their
... will, into the hell of incessant suffering. Or it is like
... the family members of Yoshimori. Setting aside those who
... gave their lives in battle, even the children still in
... their mothers’ wombs, torn from their mothers’ bellies,
... were killed before birth.
...
... NOW I, NICHIREN, HAVE MENTIONED THE THREE GREAT TEACHERS
... KŌBŌ, JIKAKU, AND CHISHŌ, WHO BOLDLY STATE IN THEIR
... WRITINGS THAT THE LOTUS SUTRA REPRESENTS THE REGION OF
... DARKNESS, THAT IT IS A FALSE AND DELUDED DOCTRINE. IF WHAT
... THE LOTUS SUTRA ITSELF SAYS IS CORRECT, THEN WHAT DO YOU
... SUPPOSE WILL BECOME OF THE PRIESTS AT MOUNT HIEI, TŌ-JI,
... ONJŌ-JI, THE SEVEN MAJOR TEMPLES OF NARA—AT ALL THE 11,037
... TEMPLES THROUGHOUT JAPAN? IF THE EXAMPLES CITED EARLIER
... ARE ANY INDICATION, THEY WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT FALL INTO
... THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING.
...
... SUCH IS THE PRINCIPLE RELATING TO THE FAMILIES OF
... SLANDERERS.
...
... NEXT, WE COME TO THE COUNTRY OF SLANDERERS. THOSE PERSONS
... WHO HAPPEN TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE THERE ARE SLANDERERS
... OF THE LAW WILL ALL—EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY—BE
... CONDEMNED TO THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT
... SUFFERING. JUST AS ALL THE VARIOUS WATERS GATHER IN THE
... GREAT OCEAN, SO ALL KINDS OF MISFORTUNE GATHER ABOUT SUCH
... A COUNTRY. THEY WILL ABOUND IN THE WAY THAT GRASS AND
... TREES ABOUND ON A MOUNTAIN.
...
... When the three calamities pile up month after month and
... the seven disasters appear day after day, then hunger and
... thirst will prevail and the country will be changed into a
... realm of hungry spirits. When plague and disease sweep
... over the land, the country will become a realm of hell.
... When warfare breaks out, it will be transformed into a
... realm of asuras. And when parents, brothers, and sisters,
... ignoring the fact that they are kin, begin taking each
... other for a husband or wife, the country will become a
... realm of animals. Under such circumstances, one does not
... have to wait until death to fall into the three evil
... paths. While one is still alive, the country in which one
... lives will be changed into these four evil realms.
...
... SUCH IS THE PRINCIPLE RELATING TO A COUNTRY WHERE
... SLANDERERS LIVE.
...
... The people in such a country will be like those who lived
... in the Latter Day of the Law of the Buddha Great
... Adornment, or in the defiled age of the Buddha Lion Sound
... King. Or if what the Repaying Debts of Gratitude Sutra
... tells us is true, people will eat the flesh of their own
... deceased parents or brothers or sisters or of any other
... dead person, and they will eat live creatures as well.
...
... JAPAN AT PRESENT IS JUST SUCH A COUNTRY. THE ENTIRE NATION
... IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO EAT HUMAN FLESH SUCH AS THE TEACHERS
... OF THE TRUE WORD SCHOOL, PRIESTS OF THE ZEN SCHOOL, AND
... OBSERVERS OF THE PRECEPTS. AND THIS HAS COME ABOUT WHOLLY
... AS A RESULT OF THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF THE TRUE WORD SCHOOL.
...
... Ryūzō-bō is merely one of the countless eaters of human
... beings whose case has happened to come to light. In a
... spirit similar to his, people procure human flesh and mix
... it with boar or deer meat, or cut it up and blend it with
... fish or fowl, pound it or pickle it, and then sell
... it. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE EATEN
... IT. ALL THIS HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN
... CAST ASIDE BY THE HEAVENLY GODS AND ABANDONED BY THE
... BENEVOLENT DEITIES WHO WATCH OVER AND PROTECT IT. IN THE
... END, THIS COUNTRY WILL BE ATTACKED BY OTHER NATIONS, ITS
... INHABITANTS WILL FALL TO FIGHTING AMONG THEMSELVES, AND IT
... WILL BE TRANSFORMED INTO A VERITABLE HELL OF INCESSANT
... SUFFERING.
...
... BECAUSE I, NICHIREN, HAVE FOR SOME TIME BEEN ABLE TO SEE
... THE GREAT ERROR OF ITS WAYS, BECAUSE I WISH TO AVOID THE
... OFFENSE OF COMPLICITY IN SLANDER, BECAUSE I FEAR THE
... ACCUSATIONS OF THE BUDDHA, AND BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND MY
... OBLIGATIONS AND WISH TO REPAY THE DEBT OF GRATITUDE I OWE
... MY COUNTRY, I HAVE ANNOUNCED AND MADE KNOWN ALL OF THIS TO
... THE RULER OF THE COUNTRY AND TO ALL ITS INHABITANTS.

Even the buddhist gods fear slandering the Law. This is why they flee countries where slander of the Law prevails widely, unabated by refutation and shakubuku. This causes their protection to dwindle for an entire country.

From "Letter to Niike", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/145#para-12
... Now that I am spreading the Lotus Sutra as the Buddha’s
... envoy, however, everyone from the ruler on down to the
... common people has become a slanderer of the correct
... teaching. So far Hachiman has done everything possible to
... prevent hostility toward the Lotus Sutra from developing
... among the people of this country, as reluctant to abandon
... them as parents would be to abandon an only child, even
... if it were unfilial. BUT NOW IN FEAR OF BREAKING THE
... PLEDGE HE MADE AT EAGLE PEAK, HE HAS BURNED DOWN HIS
... SHRINE AND ASCENDED TO HEAVEN. EVEN SO, SHOULD THERE BE A
... VOTARY OF THE LOTUS SUTRA WHO WOULD GIVE HIS BODY AND
... LIFE FOR IT, HACHIMAN WOULD DWELL UPON HIS HEAD. But
... since both the Sun Goddess and Great Bodhisattva Hachiman
... have gone, how could the other gods remain in their
... shrines? Even if they did not wish to leave, how could
... they stay another day if I reproached them for not
... keeping the promise they made at Eagle Peak? A person may
... be a thief, but as long as no one knows, he can live
... wherever he wishes. But when denounced as a thief by
... someone who knows him, he is forced to leave his dwelling
... against his will. In the same way, because I know of
... their vow, the gods are compelled to abandon their
... shrines. Contrary to popular belief, this country has
... become inhabited by evil demons. How pitiful!

What are the major constituents of slander of the Law in a practical sense? They mostly come down to plagiarizing and appropriating Buddhism and the Lotus Sutra into their corrupted teachings and practices (hence Zen, the martial arts, etc.: what Iain calls my phobias)

The Opening of the Eyes (I)
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-18

... They refuse to acknowledge that even a single person
... possesses the Buddha nature. In spite of this, one will
... sometimes hear members of the Precepts and Establishment
... of Truth schools declaring that there are Buddhas in the
... ten directions, or that all living beings possess the
... Buddha nature. This is because the teachers of these
... schools who appeared after the passing away of the Buddha
... had STOLEN THESE MAHAYANA DOCTRINES AND INCORPORATED THEM
... INTO THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR OWN SCHOOLS.
...
... TO ILLUSTRATE, IN THE PERIOD BEFORE THE APPEARANCE OF
... BUDDHISM, THE PROPONENTS OF THE NON-BUDDHIST TEACHINGS IN
... INDIA WERE NOT SO BOUND UP IN THEIR OWN VIEWS. BUT AFTER
... THE APPEARANCE OF THE BUDDHA, WHEN THEY HAD LISTENED TO
... AND OBSERVED THE BUDDHIST TEACHINGS, THEY BECAME AWARE OF
... THE SHORTCOMINGS OF THEIR OWN DOCTRINES. THEY THEN
... CONCEIVED THE CLEVER IDEA OF APPROPRIATING BUDDHIST
... TEACHINGS AND INCORPORATING THEM INTO THEIR OWN DOCTRINES,
... AND AS A RESULT THEY FELL INTO EVEN DEEPER ERROR THAN
... BEFORE. THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF THE ERRORS KNOWN AS
... “APPROPRIATING BUDDHISM” OR “PLAGIARIZING BUDDHISM.”

After observing the history of plagiarizing and appropriating and distorting and piling slander upon slander for dozens of generations, Nichiren Daishonin came up with what Nikko Shonin called the "Four Dictims". From "Letter to Akimoto", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/144#para-15
... BUT I, NICHIREN, ONE MAN ALONE, DECLARE THAT THE
... RECITATION OF THE NAME OF AMIDA BUDDHA IS AN ACTION THAT
... LEADS TO REBIRTH IN THE HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING, THAT
... THE ZEN SCHOOL IS THE INVENTION OF THE HEAVENLY DEVIL,
... THAT THE TRUE WORD SCHOOL IS AN EVIL DOCTRINE THAT WILL
... DESTROY THE COUNTRY, AND THAT THE PRECEPTS SCHOOL AND THE
... OBSERVERS OF THE PRECEPTS ARE TRAITORS TO THE NATION.
...
... Because I do so, from the sovereign on down to the common
... people, all people fear me more than they would an enemy
... of their parents, an enemy from a past existence, a
... plotter of treason, a night raider, or a bandit. They
... rage, they curse, they strike at me. Those who slander me
... are given grants of land, while those who praise me are
... driven from their areas or fined, and the people who
... desire to kill me are singled out for rewards. And on top
... of all this, I have twice incurred the wrath of the
... authorities.

However, as it was in the case of T'ien-T'ai and Miao-lo, some new slanders have emerged since Nichiren Daishonin's lifetime. They also must be refuted. From "On Repaying Debts of Gratitude", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/88#para-79
... In the T’ien-t’ai school, however, there appeared a priest
... known as the Great Teacher Miao-lo. Though he lived more
... than two hundred years after the time of the Great Teacher
... T’ien-t’ai, because he was extremely wise and had a clear
... understanding of the teachings of T’ien-t’ai, he perceived
... that the meaning of T’ien-t’ai’s commentaries was that the
... Lotus Sutra is superior to the Profound Secrets Sutra and
... the Dharma Characteristics school, which were both
... introduced to China after T’ien-t’ai’s time, and to the
... Flower Garland school and the True Word school with its
... Mahāvairochana Sutra, both of which were first established
... in China.
...
... Up until then, either because T’ien-t’ai’s followers
... lacked the wisdom to see what was wrong, or because they
... feared others or were in awe of the ruler’s power, no one
... had spoken out. It was clear that a correct understanding
... of the teachings of T’ien-t’ai was about to be lost, and
... that the erroneous doctrines that were rife surpassed even
... those that had prevailed in northern and southern China in
... the period before the Ch’en and Sui dynasties. THEREFORE,
... MIAO-LO WROTE COMMENTARIES ON T’IEN-T’AI’S WORKS IN THIRTY
... VOLUMES, THE WRITINGS KNOWN AS THE ANNOTATIONS ON “GREAT
... CONCENTRATION AND INSIGHT,” THE ANNOTATIONS ON “THE
... PROFOUND MEANING OF THE LOTUS SUTRA,” AND THE ANNOTATIONS
... ON “THE WORDS AND PHRASES OF THE LOTUS SUTRA.” NOT ONLY
... DID THESE THIRTY VOLUMES OF COMMENTARY SERVE TO ELIMINATE
... PASSAGES OF REPETITION IN T’IEN-T’AI’S WORKS AND TO
... ELUCIDATE POINTS THAT WERE UNCLEAR, BUT AT THE SAME
... TIME, IN ONE STROKE, THEY REFUTED THE DHARMA
... CHARACTERISTICS, FLOWER GARLAND, AND TRUE WORD SCHOOLS,
... WHICH HAD ESCAPED T’IEN-T’AI’S CENSURES BECAUSE THEY DID
... NOT EXIST IN CHINA DURING HIS LIFETIME.

Sadly, it is quite difficult to call out the latter day followers so far removed from the initial crime of plagiarizing and appropriating the Lotus Sutra into their corrupted teachings. A good example of this is Dogen, who fancied the Lotus Sutra so much that he incorporated pieces into his writings. He is the father of Soto Zen (seated meditation), which is what most Zen believers practice, and he died not long after the Daimoku was first chanted on April 28, 1253.

Nichiren says that in spite of the extreme difficulty of calling out the profoundly ignorant followers of evil, that you must do so anyway. From "On Repaying Debts of Gratitude", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/88#para-31

... Question: Do you really proclaim that Ch’eng-kuan of the
... Flower Garland school, Chia-hsiang of the Three Treatises
... school, Tz’u-en of the Dharma Characteristics school, and
... Shan-wu-wei and the others of the True Word school on down
... to Kōbō, Jikaku, and Chishō are the enemies of the Buddha?
...
... Answer: This is a very important question, a matter of the
... gravest concern to the Buddha’s teachings. Yet, on
... examining the text of the sutra, I find that, if someone
... should declare that there is a sutra superior to the Lotus
... Sutra, then regardless of who that person may be, he or
... she cannot escape the charge of slandering the Law.
... Therefore, if we go by what the sutra says, then persons
... such as this must be regarded as enemies of the Buddha.
... And if, out of fear, I fail to point out this fact, then
... the distinctions of relative merit made among the various
... sutras will all have been made in vain.
...
... IF, OUT OF AWE OF THESE GREAT TEACHERS OF THE PAST, I
... SHOULD SIMPLY POINT AT THEIR LATTER-DAY FOLLOWERS AND CALL
... THEM ENEMIES OF THE BUDDHA, THEN THESE LATTER-DAY
... FOLLOWERS OF THE VARIOUS SCHOOLS WOULD SAY: “THE ASSERTION
... THAT THE MAHĀVAIROCHANA SUTRA IS SUPERIOR TO THE LOTUS
... SUTRA IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE OURSELVES INVENTED ON OUR
... OWN. IT IS THE DOCTRINE TAUGHT BY THE PATRIARCHS OF OUR
... SCHOOL. THOUGH WE MAY BE NO MATCH FOR THEM IN OBSERVING
... THE PRECEPTS, IN WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING, OR IN STATUS,
... WHEN IT COMES TO THE DOCTRINES THAT THEY TAUGHT, WE NEVER
... DIVERGE FROM THEM IN THE SLIGHTEST.” AND IN THAT CASE, ONE
... WOULD HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THEY ARE GUILTY OF NO FAULT.
...
... NEVERTHELESS, IF I KNOW THAT THIS ASSERTION IS FALSE AND
... YET, OUT OF FEAR OF OTHERS, I FAIL TO SAY SO, THEN I WILL
... BE IGNORING THE STERN WARNING OF THE BUDDHA, WHO SAID,
... “[IT IS LIKE A ROYAL ENVOY WHO] WOULD RATHER, EVEN THOUGH
... IT COSTS HIM HIS LIFE, IN THE END CONCEAL NONE OF THE
... WORDS OF HIS RULER.”

What constitutes slander is in contrast, that which glorifies the Lotus Sutra even more: the ability of the Lotus Sutra to save ALL the people. From "Rebuking Slander of the Law", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/48#para-42
... ALL THE PEOPLE THROUGHOUT JAPAN HAVE BEEN LED ASTRAY BY
... THE WILD ASSERTIONS OF HŌNEN, WHO TELLS THEM TO “DISCARD,
... CLOSE, IGNORE, AND ABANDON” [THE LOTUS SUTRA], OR OF THE
... ZEN SCHOOL, WHICH DECLARES ITS TEACHING TO BE “A SEPARATE
... TRANSMISSION OUTSIDE THE SUTRAS,” SO THAT THERE IS NOT A
... SINGLE ONE WHO IS NOT DESTINED TO FALL INTO THE GREAT
... CITADEL OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING. So believing,
... over the past more than twenty years I have never ceased
... to cry out in a loud voice against these errors, fearing
... neither the ruler of the nation nor the common people. I
... am in no way inferior to the outspoken ministers Kuan
... Lung-feng and Pi Kan of old. I am like the thousand-armed
... Perceiver of the World’s Sounds, the bodhisattva of great
... compassion, who strives to rescue at once all the beings
... confined to the hell of incessant suffering.
...
... WHEN SEVERAL CHILDREN ARE CAUGHT IN A FIRE, THOUGH THE
... PARENTS WISH TO SAVE THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME, HAVING
... ONLY TWO ARMS, THEY MUST DECIDE WHICH CHILD TO SAVE FIRST
... AND WHICH TO LEAVE UNTIL AFTER. THE LOTUS SUTRA IS A
... PARENT WITH A THOUSAND ARMS, TEN THOUSAND ARMS, OR A
... MILLION ARMS. THE SUTRAS PREACHED BEFORE THE LOTUS SUTRA
... HAVE ONLY ONE OR TWO ARMS, AS IT WERE. BUT THE LOTUS
... SUTRA, THROUGH WHICH THE BUDDHA HAS “CONVERTED ALL LIVING
... BEINGS AND CAUSED THEM ALL TO ENTER THE BUDDHA WAY,” IS
... A BODHISATTVA WITH INNUMERABLE ARMS.

Challenging Iain's depictions of these "phobias", Nichiren Daishonin warns his followers to be truly fearful of slander of the Law, outlining the punishments that go on and on ...

From "Reply to Hoshina Gōrō Tarō", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/15#para-14
... The Great Teacher Miao-lo states, “I call upon those with
... eyes to examine this thoroughly.” Is one not without
... eyes who regards the Lotus Sutra as inferior to the
... Flower Garland Sutra? The Nirvana Sutra reads, “If there
... are persons who slander the correct teaching of the
... Buddha, their tongues should be cut off.” Ah, how pitiful
... that those slandering tongues will utter no words in
... world after world, and that the eyes clouded by false
... views will fall out in lifetime after lifetime, seeing
... nothing! Moreover, the Lotus Sutra says: “If a person
... fails to have faith but instead slanders this sutra . . .
... When his life comes to an end he will enter the Avīchi
... hell.” IF THIS STATEMENT IS VALID, KŌBŌ WILL SURELY FALL
... INTO THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING
... WHERE HE WILL UNDERGO AGONY FOR IMMEASURABLE MILLIONS OF
... KALPAS. YOU SHOULD ALSO RECOGNIZE THE FATE OF SHAN-TAO
... AND HŌNEN THROUGH HIS EXAMPLE. WHO AMONG THOSE ENDOWED
... WITH WISDOM WILL DIP INTO THE STREAM OF SUCH SLANDEROUS
... TEACHINGS AND BE CONSUMED TOGETHER WITH THESE MEN IN THE
... FLAMES OF THE AVĪCHI HELL? TRULY, THE PRACTITIONERS OF
... BUDDHISM SHOULD FEAR THIS. THESE ARE ALL PERSONS OF
... PROFOUNDLY DISTORTED VIEWS. IN THIS CONNECTION, WE FIND,
... AMONG THE TRUE AND GOLDEN WORDS OF THE THUS COME ONE:
... “[THIS DEVIL KING PĀPĪYAS WILL IN TIME TRY] TO DESTROY
... THE CORRECT TEACHING OF MINE. HE WILL BE LIKE A HUNTER
... WHO WRAPS HIS BODY IN A PRIESTLY ROBE. HE WILL CHANGE HIS
... FORM INTO THAT OF A STREAM-WINNER, A ONCE-RETURNER, A
... NON-RETURNER, AN ARHAT, A PRATYEKABUDDHA, OR A BUDDHA,
... AND WILL TRY TO DESTROY THE CORRECT TEACHING OF MINE.”

And those punishments apply to those slandering the Law and also those attacking the Sangha that faithfully propagates the Law correctly. From "Embracing the Lotus Sutra", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/8#para-41

... TO IGNORE THE SUPREMACY OF THE LOTUS SUTRA AND ASSERT THAT
... OTHER SUTRAS STAND ON A PAR WITH IT IS TO COMMIT THE WORST
... POSSIBLE SLANDER OF THE LAW, A MAJOR OFFENSE OF THE UTMOST
... GRAVITY. NO ANALOGY COULD SUFFICE TO ILLUSTRATE IT. THE
... BUDDHAS, FOR ALL THEIR POWERS OF MAGICAL TRANSFORMATION,
... COULD NEVER FINISH DESCRIBING ITS CONSEQUENCES, AND THE
... BODHISATTVAS, WITH ALL THE WISDOM AT THEIR COMMAND, COULD
... NOT FATHOM ITS IMMENSITY. THUS, THE “SIMILE AND PARABLE”
... CHAPTER OF THE LOTUS SUTRA SAYS, “IF I WERE TO DESCRIBE
... THE PUNISHMENTS [THAT FALL ON PERSONS WHO SLANDER THIS
... SUTRA], I COULD EXHAUST A KALPA AND NEVER COME TO THE
... END.” THIS PASSAGE MEANS THAT NOT EVEN A WHOLE KALPA WOULD
... BE TIME ENOUGH TO EXPLAIN THE FULL GRAVITY OF THE OFFENSE
... OF A PERSON WHO ACTS EVEN ONCE AGAINST THE LOTUS SUTRA.
...
... For this reason, a person who commits this offense will
... never be able to hear the preaching of the Buddhas of the
... three existences, and will be cut off from the doctrines
... of the Thus Come Ones, who are as numerous as the sands of
... the Ganges. Such a person will move from darkness into
... greater darkness. How could he escape the pains and
... sufferings of the great citadel of the Avīchi hell? Could
... a thoughtful person fail to dread the prospect of lengthy
... kalpas of misery?
...
... THUS THE SUTRA STATES, “IF THIS PERSON . . . ON SEEING
... THOSE WHO READ, RECITE, COPY, AND UPHOLD THIS SUTRA,
... SHOULD DESPISE, HATE, ENVY, OR BEAR GRUDGES AGAINST THEM .
... . . WHEN HIS LIFE COMES TO AN END HE WILL ENTER THE AVĪCHI
... HELL.” THIS PASSAGE MEANS THAT A PERSON WHO DESPISES,
... LOOKS DOWN ON, HATES, ENVIES, OR HOLDS A GRUDGE AGAINST
... THOSE WHO READ AND EMBRACE THE LOTUS SUTRA WILL FALL INTO
... THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE AVĪCHI HELL AFTER HE DIES. WHO
... COULD HELP BUT FEAR THESE GOLDEN WORDS OF THE GREAT SAGE?
... AND WHO COULD DOUBT THE CLEAR-CUT PRONOUNCEMENT OF THE
... BUDDHA WHEN HE SAID, “HONESTLY DISCARDING EXPEDIENT MEANS,
... [I WILL PREACH ONLY THE UNSURPASSED WAY]”?

In "On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land", WND I, Nichiren Daishonin, speaking as the host, strictly explains the matter of punishment to the guest, who is questioning why the punishments are so severe. You should listen to the hosts words, Iain, as if he were speaking directly to you. He declares his only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/2#para-101

... If we stop to consider, we must realize that, regardless
... of whether one is good or bad, right or wrong, if he is a
... priest, then he deserves to have alms and nourishment
... extended to him. For how could one beat and insult the son
... and still not cause grief and sorrow to the father? The
... Brahmans of the Bamboo Staff school who killed the
... Venerable Maudgalyāyana have for a long time been sunk in
... the depths of the hell of incessant suffering. Because
... Devadatta murdered the nun Utpalavarnā, he has for a long
... time gasped in the flames of the Avīchi hell. Examples
... from earlier ages make the matter perfectly clear, and
... later ages fear this offense most of all. You speak of
... punishing those who slander the Law, but to do so would
... violate the Buddha’s prohibitions. I can hardly believe
... that such a course would be right. How can you justify that?
...
... The host said: You have clearly seen the sutra passages
... that I have cited, and yet you can ask a question like
... that! Are they beyond the power of your mind to
... comprehend? Or do you fail to understand the reasoning
... behind them? I certainly have no intention of censuring
... the sons of the Buddha. MY ONLY HATRED IS FOR THE ACT OF
... SLANDERING THE LAW. According to the Buddhist teachings,
... prior to Shakyamuni slanderous monks would have incurred
... the death penalty. But since the time of Shakyamuni, the
... One Who Can Endure, the giving of alms to slanderous monks
... is forbidden in the sutra teachings. Now if all the four
... kinds of Buddhists within the four seas and the ten
... thousand lands would only cease giving alms to wicked
... priests and instead all come over to the side of the good,
... then how could any more troubles rise to plague us, or
... disasters come to confront us?

Written 27 years after first chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Nichiren Daishonin writes about four kinds of punishment: general and individual, conspicuous and inconspicuous. He indicates that responding to the challenges posed by those facing these kinds of punishments takes the courage of the Lion King. From "On Persecutions Befalling the Sage", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/138#para-5
... In the past, and in the present Latter Day of the Law, the
... rulers, high ministers, and people who despise the
... votaries of the Lotus Sutra seem to be free from
... punishment at first, but eventually they are all doomed to
... fall. The same is true in the case of Nichiren. There
... seemed at first to be no signs of protection for me. The
... gods who vowed to protect the Lotus Sutra, however—Brahmā,
... Shakra, the gods of the sun and moon, and the four
... heavenly kings—by now have realized in terror that if they
... leave their oath to the Buddha unfulfilled, as they have
... done for these twenty-seven years, they will fall into the
... great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering.
... Consequently each of them is now striving to carry out his
... vow. The deaths of Ōta Chikamasa, Nagasaki Jirō Hyōe-no-jō
... Tokitsuna, and Daishin-bō, who was thrown from his
... horses, can be seen as punishment for their treachery
... against the Lotus Sutra. THERE ARE FOUR KINDS OF
... PUNISHMENT: GENERAL AND INDIVIDUAL, CONSPICUOUS AND
... INCONSPICUOUS. THE EPIDEMICS AND FAMINES THAT HAVE
... ATTACKED JAPAN, AS WELL AS THE STRIFE WITHIN THE RULING
... CLAN AND THE FOREIGN INVASION, ARE GENERAL PUNISHMENT.
... EPIDEMICS ARE A FORM OF INCONSPICUOUS PUNISHMENT. THE
... DEATHS OF ŌTA AND THE OTHERS ARE BOTH CONSPICUOUS AND
... INDIVIDUAL.
...
... EACH OF YOU SHOULD SUMMON UP THE COURAGE OF A LION KING
... AND NEVER SUCCUMB TO THREATS FROM ANYONE. THE LION KING
... FEARS NO OTHER BEAST, NOR DO ITS CUBS. SLANDERERS ARE LIKE
... BARKING FOXES, BUT NICHIREN’S FOLLOWERS ARE LIKE ROARING
... LIONS. The lay priest of Saimyō-ji, now deceased, and the
... present ruler permitted my return from my exiles when
... they found that I was innocent of the accusations against
... me. The present ruler shall no longer take action on any
... charge without confirming its truth. You may rest assured
... that nothing, not even a person possessed by a powerful
... demon, can harm Nichiren, because Brahmā, Shakra, the gods
... of the sun and moon, the four heavenly kings, the Sun
... Goddess, and Hachiman are safeguarding him. Strengthen
... your faith day by day and month after month. Should you
... slacken in your resolve even a bit, devils will take
... advantage.
...
... WE COMMON MORTALS ARE SO FOOLISH THAT WE DO NOT FEAR
... EITHER THE WARNINGS IN THE SUTRAS AND TREATISES, OR THOSE
... THINGS THAT SEEM SOMEWHAT REMOVED FROM US. When Hei no
... Saemon and Akitajō-no-suke, in their anger, wreak havoc
... upon us, you must demonstrate a firm resolve. Men are now
... being sent to Tsukushi [to fight the Mongols]; consider
... yourselves in the same position as those who are on their
... way or are already at the fortifications. So far our
... believers have not experienced sorrows of that sort. The
... warriors in Tsukushi, however, now face a dreadful fate,
... and if they are killed in battle, they are doomed to fall
... into hell. Although at present we are encountering the
... severe trials of persecution, in our next life we will
... become Buddhas. OUR PRESENT TRIBULATIONS ARE LIKE
... MOXIBUSTION; AT THE TIME, IT IS PAINFUL, BUT BECAUSE IT
... HAS BENEFICIAL AFTEREFFECTS, THE PAIN IS NOT REALLY PAIN.

In this passage from "Letter from Sado", WND I, Nichiren Daishonin writes about the confusion regarding Buddhism in his time, and in ours there is not less confusion. Then he explains why the heart of the lion is needed to fight for the true teaching, and against the false and corrupt teachings that have powerful and aggressive followers, such as Zen.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/32#para-4

... Buddhism should be spread by the method of either shōju or
... shakubuku, depending on the age. These are analogous to
... the two worldly ways of the literary and the military. The
... great sages of old practiced the Buddhist teachings as
... befitted the times. The boy Snow Mountains and Prince
... Sattva offered their bodies when urged that by doing so
... they would hear the teaching in return, and that
... giving one’s life constitutes bodhisattva practice. But
... should one sacrifice one’s life at a time when it is not
... required? In an age when there is no paper, one should use
... one’s own skin. In an age when there are no writing
... brushes, one should use one’s own bones. In an age when
... people honor the observers of the precepts and the
... practitioners of the correct teaching while they denounce
... those who break or ignore the precepts, one should
... strictly follow the precepts. In an age when Confucianism
... or Taoism is used to suppress Shakyamuni’s teachings, one
... should risk one’s life to remonstrate with the emperor, as
... did the Dharma teachers Tao-an and Hui-yüan and the
... Tripitaka Master Fa-tao. In an age when people confuse
... Hinayana and Mahayana teachings, provisional and true
... teachings, or exoteric and esoteric doctrines, as though
... unable to distinguish gems from tiles and stones or cow’s
... milk from donkey’s milk, one should strictly
... differentiate between them, following the example of the
... great teachers T’ien-t’ai and Dengyō.
...
... IT IS THE NATURE OF BEASTS TO THREATEN THE WEAK AND FEAR
... THE STRONG. OUR CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS OF THE VARIOUS
... SCHOOLS ARE JUST LIKE THEM. THEY DESPISE A WISE MAN
... WITHOUT POWER, BUT FEAR EVIL RULERS. THEY ARE NO MORE THAN
... FAWNING RETAINERS. ONLY BY DEFEATING A POWERFUL ENEMY CAN
... ONE PROVE ONE’S REAL STRENGTH. WHEN AN EVIL RULER IN
... CONSORT WITH PRIESTS OF ERRONEOUS TEACHINGS TRIES TO
... DESTROY THE CORRECT TEACHING AND DO AWAY WITH A MAN OF
... WISDOM, THOSE WITH THE HEART OF A LION KING ARE SURE TO
... ATTAIN BUDDHAHOOD. LIKE NICHIREN, FOR EXAMPLE. I SAY THIS
... NOT OUT OF ARROGANCE, BUT BECAUSE I AM DEEPLY COMMITTED TO
... THE CORRECT TEACHING. AN ARROGANT PERSON WILL ALWAYS BE
... OVERCOME WITH FEAR WHEN MEETING A STRONG ENEMY, AS WAS THE
... HAUGHTY ASURA WHO SHRANK IN SIZE AND HID HIMSELF IN A
... LOTUS BLOSSOM IN HEAT-FREE LAKE WHEN REPROACHED BY SHAKRA.
... Even a word or a phrase of the correct teaching will
... enable one to gain the way, if it suits the time and the
... capacity of the people. But though one studies a thousand
... sutras and ten thousand treatises, one will not attain
... Buddhahood if these teachings are unsuitable for the time
... and the people’s capacity.

In the Gosho letter "Wu-lung and I-lung", WND I below, Nichiren Daishonin deals with an example of a situation where slander of the Law is incurred at the death of a father with ceremonies based on teachings other than the Lotus Sutra. The Daishonin explains that the father's eternal life will be based on the meretorious practice of the daughter and the slanderous ceremonies will not have the deleterious effect that they might otherwise have had.

However, Nichiren Daishonin DOES NOT counsel her to join in with those slanderers and practicers of evil. In fact, it is her attitude of concern over the issue of slander of the Law that he praises. Be like her, Iain.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/162#para-2

... In your letter you mention the anniversary of the passing
... of your compassionate father, the lay priest Matsuno
... Rokurō Saemon. You say, “Since he left many sons behind,
... memorial services for him will be conducted in as many
... different ways. I fear, however, that such ceremonies will
... be slanderous unless strictly based on the Lotus Sutra.”
... Shakyamuni Buddha’s golden teaching states, “The
... World-Honored One has long expounded his doctrines and now
... must reveal the truth.” The Buddha Many Treasures gave
... testimony, declaring, “The Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful
... Law . . . all that you [Shakyamuni] have expounded is the
... truth!” And the Buddhas of the ten directions gave
... credence to the sutra’s verity by extending their tongues
... to the Brahmā heaven.
...
... ...
...
... I-lung said, “It was my hand that wrote the titles. How
... could you have been saved? Moreover, I did not write them
... with sincerity. How could it possibly have helped you?”
... His father replied: “HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE! YOUR HAND IS MY
... HAND, AND YOUR BODY IS MY BODY. THE CHARACTERS YOU WRITE
... ARE THE CHARACTERS I WRITE. ALTHOUGH YOU HAD NO FAITH IN
... YOUR HEART, YOU NEVERTHELESS WROTE THE TITLES WITH YOUR
... HAND. THEREFORE, I HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED. THINK OF A
... CHILD WHO SETS FIRE TO SOMETHING AND, WITHOUT THE LEAST
... INTENTION OF DOING SO, CAUSES IT TO BE BURNED. THE SAME
... HOLDS TRUE WITH THE LOTUS SUTRA. IF ONE PROFESSES FAITH IN
... IT, ONE WILL SURELY BECOME A BUDDHA, EVEN THOUGH ONE MAY
... NOT EXPECT IT IN THE LEAST. NOW THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS
... PRINCIPLE, NEVER SLANDER THE LOTUS SUTRA. Since we are
... among the laity, however, we are in a better position to
... repent of our past slanderous words, no matter how grave
... they may have been.”
...
... I-lung reported all this to the ruler. The ruler said, “My
... wish has been answered with splendid results.” From then
... on, I-lung basked increasingly in the royal favor, and the
... entire populace of the country came to revere the Lotus
... Sutra.
...
... The late Gorō and the late lay priest Matsuno were,
... respectively, your son and father. YOU ARE THE LAY
... PRIEST’S DAUGHTER. I BELIEVE, THEREFORE, THAT HE MUST AT
... THIS VERY MOMENT BE IN THE INNER COURT OF THE TUSHITA
... HEAVEN. HŌKI-BŌ WILL READ AND EXPLAIN THIS LETTER TO
... YOU. Since I wrote in haste, it was impossible to furnish
... details.

Iain, you can complain all you want about your relationship with the ruler who has given you the message to deliver (see the below passage.) In the end you will either deliver the full content of Nichiren's unaltered message from the Lotus Sutra, or remain a traitor to the Daishonin and the Lotus Sutra.

What you are preaching now in your brand new Iain school, the practice of effectively "just chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and focus on the Lotus Sutra" is not what Nichiren teaches, no matter how you twist his words (and you are one hell of a good twister of words, Iain.)

Nichiren Daishonin and the Lotus Sutra both teach the way of shakubuku. Shakubuku is NOT the propagation of slander and distortions of the Lotus Sutra, which is what it would be to be propagating the Daimoku and the Lotus Sutra without its protection from corruption, distortion, appropriating and plagiarism of the Lotus Sutra. That protection from slander of the Law is shakubuku and that practice must be propagated along with the Lotus Sutra and its Daimoku, otherwise slander of the Law will invariably result.

From "On Repaying Debts of Gratitude"

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/88#para-33

... If, out of awe of these great teachers of the past, I
... should simply point at their latter-day followers and call
... them enemies of the Buddha, then these latter-day
... followers of the various schools would say: “The assertion
... that the Mahāvairochana Sutra is superior to the Lotus
... Sutra is not something that we ourselves invented on our
... own. It is the doctrine taught by the patriarchs of our
... school. Though we may be no match for them in observing
... the precepts, in wisdom and understanding, or in status,
... when it comes to the doctrines that they taught, we never
... diverge from them in the slightest.” And in that case, one
... would have to admit that they are guilty of no fault.
...
... NEVERTHELESS, IF I KNOW THAT THIS ASSERTION IS FALSE AND
... YET, OUT OF FEAR OF OTHERS, I FAIL TO SAY SO, THEN I WILL
... BE IGNORING THE STERN WARNING OF THE BUDDHA, WHO SAID,
... “[IT IS LIKE A ROYAL ENVOY WHO] WOULD RATHER, EVEN THOUGH
... IT COSTS HIM HIS LIFE, IN THE END CONCEAL NONE OF THE
... WORDS OF HIS RULER.”
...
... WHAT AM I TO DO? IF I SPEAK UP, I FACE FEARFUL OPPOSITION
... FROM THE WORLD AT LARGE. BUT IF I AM SILENT, I CAN HARDLY
... ESCAPE THE CONDEMNATION OF FAILING TO HEED THE BUDDHA’S
... STERN WARNING. FORWARD OR BACKWARD, MY WAY IS BLOCKED.
...
... YET PERHAPS IT IS ONLY TO BE EXPECTED. FOR, AS THE LOTUS
... SUTRA STATES, “SINCE HATRED AND JEALOUSY TOWARD THIS SUTRA
... ABOUND EVEN WHEN THE THUS COME ONE IS IN THE WORLD, HOW
... MUCH MORE WILL THIS BE SO AFTER HIS PASSING?” AGAIN
... ELSEWHERE, “IT WILL FACE MUCH HOSTILITY IN THE WORLD AND
... BE DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE.”

Leaving the Lotus Sutra unprotected by refusing to refute slander of the Law IS slander of the Law. And it is cowardice, as well. To attain supreme perfect enlightenment, you must be a heroic protector of the Lotus Sutra, like Nichiren Daishonin. That means being fearful of slander and then dealing with it, when it presents itself in a challenge to your buddhahood.

From "Condolences on a Deceased Husband", WND II

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/299#para-49
... Unless I had some astute plan in mind, it seemed best to
... remain silent and not to speak out. And yet in the classics
... of non-Buddhist literature it is said that if a worthy man
... knows that the world faces destruction and fails to speak
... out, then he is a mere toady, a sycophant, a person with no
... sense of obligation. Therefore the worthy men Kuan
... Lung-feng and Pi Kan spoke out fearlessly on matters that
... concerned the safety of the nation, even though it meant
... that Kuan Lung-feng’s head was cut off and Pi Kan’s breast
... torn open.
...
... TURNING TO BUDDHIST LITERATURE, WE FIND THAT THE BUDDHA HAS
... WARNED THAT, IF A PERSON SEES AN ENEMY OF THE LOTUS SUTRA
... BUT FAILS TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST HIM BECAUSE OF FEAR OF THE
... WORLD, THEN HE IS A FOE OF SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA. NO MATTER HOW
... WISE OR GOOD HE MAY BE, HE WILL ASSUREDLY FALL INTO THE
... HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING. SUCH A PERSON IS LIKE A SON
... WHO SEES SOMEONE ABOUT TO KILL HIS PARENTS BUT FAILS TO
... WARN THEM, OR A MINISTER WHO SEES SOMEONE BRINGING RUIN ON
... HIS SOVEREIGN BUT, FEARFUL OF THE WORLD, DOES NOT SPEAK OUT
... IN REPRIMAND. SUCH BEHAVIOR THE BUDDHA PROHIBITS.
...
... For this reason, Bodhisattva Āryadeva, who was an envoy of
... the Buddha, was killed by a follower of the non-Buddhist
... teachings; the Venerable Āryasimha had his head cut off by
... King Dammira; the Chinese priest Chu Tao-sheng was driven
... into exile in a mountain in Su-chou; and the priest Fa-tao
... was branded on the face. All these men met with such fates
... because they honored the Buddhist teachings and did not
... quail before the authority of the ruler.

And likewise in "Letter to Akimoto", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/144#para-64

... THE BUDDHA HAS CONSTANTLY WARNED US, SAYING THAT, NO
... MATTER HOW GREAT AN OBSERVER OF THE PRECEPTS ONE MAY BE,
... NO MATTER HOW LOFTY IN WISDOM AND WELL VERSED IN THE LOTUS
... SUTRA AND THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, IF ONE SEES AN ENEMY OF
... THE LOTUS SUTRA BUT FAILS TO REBUKE AND DENOUNCE HIM OR
... REPORT HIM TO THE RULER OF THE NATION, INSTEAD KEEPING
... SILENT OUT OF FEAR OF OTHERS, THEN ONE WILL INVARIABLY
... FALL INTO THE GREAT CITADEL OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT
... SUFFERING. SUPPOSE, BY WAY OF ANALOGY, THAT ONE COMMITS NO
... TREASONABLE ACT ONESELF, BUT KNOWS OF SOMEONE WHO IS
... PLOTTING TREASON. IF ONE FAILS TO INFORM THE RULER, THEN
... ONE IS GUILTY OF THE SAME CRIME AS THE PERSON WHO IS
... PLOTTING TREASON.
...
... THE GREAT TEACHER NAN-YÜEH HAS STATED, “IF ONE SEES A FOE
... OF THE LOTUS SUTRA AND YET FAILS TO CENSURE HIM, ONE
... BECOMES A SLANDERER OF THE LAW AND WILL FALL INTO THE
... HELL OF INCESSANT SUFFERING.” EVEN A MAN OF GREAT
... WISDOM, IF HE SEES SUCH A PERSON AND FAILS TO SPEAK OUT,
... WILL FALL INTO THE DEPTHS OF THE HELL OF INCESSANT
... SUFFERING, AND AS LONG AS THAT HELL SHALL ENDURE, HE WILL
... NEVER ESCAPE.
...
... I, Nichiren, FEARING THESE ADMONITIONS OF THE BUDDHA,
... accordingly accused all those throughout the nation who
... were deserving of it, and more than once I was condemned
... to exile or to death. Believing that my past offenses had
... now been eradicated, and that I was blameless of any
... fault, I left Kamakura to take up residence on this
... mountain, and since then seven years have passed.

Cowards cannot attain the supreme perfect enlightenment of the Lotus Sutra in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. And being a heroic protector of the Lotus Sutra will not likely make you stylish, popular or sexy. From "Letter to Hōren", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/62#para-115

... Question: At what times should one offer one’s body, and
... at what times should one observe the precepts?
...
... Answer: A person of wisdom is one who, understanding the
... time, spreads the teachings of the Lotus Sutra
... accordingly; this is his most important task. If a
... person’s throat is dry, what he needs is water; he has no
... use for bows and arrows, weapons and sticks. If a person
... is naked, he wants a suit of clothes but has no need for
... water. From one or two examples you can guess the
... principle that applies in general.
...
... Suppose there is a great demon who is working to spread
... the teachings of the Lotus Sutra. In such a case one
... should offer one’s own body as alms to the demon; there is
... no need to offer any other food or clothing.
...
... OR SUPPOSE THERE IS AN EVIL RULER WHO IS BENT UPON
... DESTROYING THE TEACHINGS OF THE LOTUS SUTRA. IN SUCH A
... CASE, EVEN AT THE COST OF ONE’S LIFE ONE MUST NOT OBEY
... HIM. AND IF THERE SHOULD BE EMINENT PRIESTS WHO KEEP THE
... PRECEPTS AND PRACTICE RELIGIOUS AUSTERITIES, AND WHO
... APPEAR TO BE SPREADING THE TEACHINGS OF THE LOTUS SUTRA
... BUT ARE, IN FACT, SUBVERTING THEM, YOU SHOULD PERCEIVE THE
... TRUTH OF THE MATTER AND REPRIMAND THEM.
...
... The Lotus Sutra says, “We care nothing for our bodies or
... lives but are anxious only for the unsurpassed way.” And
... the Nirvana Sutra states, “It is like a royal envoy who .
... . . would rather, even though it costs him his life, in
... the end conceal none of the words of his ruler.” The Great
... Teacher Chang-an commented on this: “‘[A royal envoy . . .
... would rather], even though it costs him his life, in the
... end conceal none of the words of his ruler’ means that
... one’s body is insignificant while the Law is supreme. One
... should give one’s life in order to propagate the
... Law.”
...
... JUDGING FROM OUTWARD APPEARANCES, AT PRESENT I, NICHIREN,
... AM THE MOST PERVERSE MAN IN ALL OF JAPAN. AMONG A HUNDRED,
... A THOUSAND, TEN THOUSAND, OR A MILLION PEOPLE OF THE FOUR
... CATEGORIES OF BELIEVERS IN THE SIXTY-SIX PROVINCES AND TWO
... OUTLYING ISLANDS OF OUR COUNTRY, I AM DETESTED BY THE
... ENTIRE POPULACE OF BOTH HIGH AND LOW STATION. IN THE SEVEN
... HUNDRED OR MORE YEARS SINCE THE TEACHINGS OF THE BUDDHA
... WERE FIRST INTRODUCED TO JAPAN, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN
... ANYONE WHO WAS HATED TO SUCH A DEGREE BECAUSE OF THE LOTUS
... SUTRA. I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT SUCH PERSONS EXISTED IN
... INDIA OR CHINA, NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD HAVE
... EXISTED. THUS, I AM THE MOST PERVERSE MAN IN THE ENTIRE
... LAND OF JAMBUDVĪPA.
...
... Because of this, even my own kindred dare not visit me, to
... say nothing of those who are not related to me. They fear
... the authority of the government officials and regard with
... apprehension the sneers of the populace. Persons who have
... been helped by me, not only in religious matters but in
... secular affairs as well, fearful of the eyes of others and
... hoping thereby to put an end to talk, make a show of
... condemning me, though I do not think they do so in their
... hearts.

As I wrote this, I had a brush with death on Friday going to work at 6:20 AM. I acquired some cosmetic injuries and a couple of broken bones, but thankfully it was no where near what it could have been. I saw this coming from some ways off, but the lessening of karmic retribution from Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is truly the most wonderful thing. I sleep in the palm of the Buddha.

It is so important to keep chanting and fighting until the moment of your death. From "On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/42#para-20
... LIFE FLASHES BY IN BUT A MOMENT. NO MATTER HOW MANY
... TERRIBLE ENEMIES YOU MAY ENCOUNTER, BANISH ALL FEARS AND
... NEVER THINK OF BACKSLIDING. EVEN IF SOMEONE WERE TO CUT
... OFF OUR HEADS WITH A SAW, IMPALE OUR BODIES WITH LANCES,
... OR SHACKLE OUR FEET AND BORE THEM THROUGH WITH A GIMLET,
... AS LONG AS WE ARE ALIVE, WE MUST KEEP CHANTING
... NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO, NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO. THEN, IF WE
... CHANT UNTIL THE VERY MOMENT OF DEATH, SHAKYAMUNI, MANY
... TREASURES, AND THE BUDDHAS OF THE TEN DIRECTIONS WILL COME
... TO US INSTANTLY, EXACTLY AS THEY PROMISED DURING THE
... CEREMONY AT EAGLE PEAK. Taking our hands and bearing us on
... their shoulders, they will carry us to Eagle Peak. The two
... sages, the two heavenly kings, and the ten demon
... daughters will guard us, while all the heavenly gods and
... benevolent deities will raise a canopy over our heads and
... unfurl banners on high. They will escort us under their
... protection to the treasure land of Tranquil Light. How can
... such joy possibly be described!

I trust the Gohonzon absolutely and without limit. I will act in faith with the courage of a lion, no matter what occurs. From "Reply to Kyō’ō", WND I

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/45#para-2
... Since I heard from you about Kyō’ō, I have been praying to
... the gods of the sun and moon for her every moment of the
... day. ALWAYS CHERISH THE GOHONZON THAT I GAVE YOU SOME TIME
... AGO FOR HER PROTECTION. THE GOHONZON WAS NEVER KNOWN, LET
... ALONE INSCRIBED, BY ANYONE IN THE FORMER OR MIDDLE DAY OF
... THE LAW. THE LION KING IS SAID TO ADVANCE THREE STEPS,
... THEN GATHER HIMSELF TO SPRING, UNLEASHING THE SAME POWER
... WHETHER HE TRAPS A TINY ANT OR ATTACKS A FIERCE ANIMAL. IN
... INSCRIBING THIS GOHONZON FOR HER PROTECTION, NICHIREN WAS
... LIKE THE LION KING. THIS IS WHAT THE SUTRA MEANS BY “THE
... POWER [OF THE BUDDHAS] THAT HAS THE LION’S FEROCITY.”
... BELIEVE IN THIS MANDALA WITH ALL YOUR HEART.
... NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO IS LIKE THE ROAR OF A LION. WHAT
... SICKNESS CAN THEREFORE BE AN OBSTACLE?
...
... It is written that those who embrace the daimoku of the
... Lotus Sutra will be protected by the Mother of Demon
... Children and by the ten demon daughters. Such persons will
... enjoy the happiness of the wisdom king Craving-Filled and
... the good fortune of the heavenly king Vaishravana.
... Wherever your daughter may frolic or play, no harm will
... come to her; she will move about without fear like the
... lion king. Among the ten demon daughters, the protection
... of Kuntī is the most profound. BUT YOUR FAITH ALONE WILL
... DETERMINE ALL THESE THINGS. A SWORD IS USELESS IN THE
... HANDS OF A COWARD. THE MIGHTY SWORD OF THE LOTUS SUTRA
... MUST BE WIELDED BY ONE COURAGEOUS IN FAITH. THEN ONE WILL
... BE AS STRONG AS A DEMON ARMED WITH AN IRON STAFF. I,
... NICHIREN, HAVE INSCRIBED MY LIFE IN SUMI INK, SO BELIEVE
... IN THE GOHONZON WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART. THE BUDDHA’S WILL
... IS THE LOTUS SUTRA, BUT THE SOUL OF NICHIREN IS NOTHING
... OTHER THAN NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO. MIAO-LO STATES IN HIS
... COMMENTARY THAT THE HEART OF THIS SUTRA IS THE REVELATION
... OF THE BUDDHA’S ORIGINAL ENLIGHTENMENT AND HIS
... IMMEASURABLE LIFE SPAN.

Those fears of Nichiren Daishonin and Shakymuni Buddha, which are shared gratefully by myself and others are real. It is irrational to ignore them. You can disagree if you want, Iain, but you should be real careful of just who you make light of.

-Chas.
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 18:36:00 UTC
Permalink
"And he never responds with Sutra in hand unless you call Buddhism in Action or Ikeda's lectures Doctrine. This is evident in his consistent and absence of Doctrinal References."

Oh really Richard? Really? I find tgat a really surprising assessment guven that I have directly quoted Sutea to you on a number if occassions and I rebutted your shaky argument on Gongyo using fully refernced and linked to Gosho.

Is your memory failing you? Or is this just more deliberate SGI media relations failled strategy?

Readers, donct take my word for it,go to the index and search my posts.

Lool, why do you think Mark, Katie and I get so much SGI attention lavished upon us? Because we are a direct and tangible threat to its operations and it's profits. Why? Because current SGI teaching isn't based on either the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teaching. It is unsustainable.

It's completely laughable thst tgree ordinary people who just happen to follow the Sutra and Gosho could drive a ciach and horses through a carefully concieved, carefully executed plan and completely wreck SGI's central mentor disciple teaching. Fantastic.

What does that tell you? That SGI is phenomenally weak, it's disortions of The Sutra and Nichiren got exposed in the harsh light of the Buddhism of the Sun. All of that money. All if that effort. All of those very expensive management consultants - poof! The millions of members money all went up in smoke.

More and more SGI members not turning up to activities, ducking study meetings, cancelling subscriptions to WT, contributions dropping. People returning their mandala, dropping out or wrting in to say "I quit". Less and less people willing to sing I seek Sensie songs, slavishly copy a fan dance routine.

More and more people thinking "err, I don't actually want to be shown as part of a cult group on You Tube, where my future employers, partners and friends might see how idiotic I look and was".

More and more people getting uneasey and queasy about the whole feel of this SGI Imperial Way Japanese militaristic mentor-diciple "protect the Emperor Daisaku and the SGI nation at any personal cost" thing, which was exactly the same mind set that led to two atomic bombs being dropped and fanatical fighters killing so many Americal and allied service personelle and Japanese soldiers and civilians.

More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."

More and more people looking at the way these guys have been treated. "Warm words from Chas when that guy Iain was still in SGI late in 2015 " stick with President Ikeda you'll be fine" then the instant switch when be quit, gloves off, open season...that could be me or any of us! It will be! Unless we tow the corporate line, say yes to Sensie and everything the Board of Directors and paid leaders tell us to do!!"

And then the growing realisation of utter powerlessness to do anything other than what the SGI want's me to do, followed by the blinding realisation that "I donct need to take this shit, I'm free, I can quit. I can still chant Daimoku, I can read the Sutra on my own, I can read Gosho on my own, I don't need a mentor who just wants my money and legitimacy - Nichiren says I am assured Buddhahood, the Sutra says the same.

That folks is why SGI hate us, that is why they work so hard here to try and do anything and everything to try and stop us from letting you stop, take stock and wake uo,just like drives of other SGI members have already done.

40% drop in members since 1988, 8 million people LESS. SGI's figures but you are being told you are growing and advancing! You knew it was wrong, you had tgat vague feeling of unease. Somehow it's not the same, you couldn't put your finger on it.

You thought it was you, you put it out of your mind, tried to push it away but it's not you, it's SGI. It has got smaller, long term members have left or beem quietly kicked out. It's not your district struggling alone, it's not localised thing, it's global. Your senses were right, it doesnct have the same vibe because it's no longer the same thing. Mentor worship, Imperial Way Daisaku Emperor Worship SGI style.

And let me correct another of Richard / SGI corps false assertions, I repeatedly signpost people to their OWN direct reading of the Sutra and direct reading of Nichiren. So far from telling people what what to believe, I direct back to Sutra, Gosho and their own Daimoku.

But never let a good fiction get in the way of the truth eh Richard/SGI?

Good luck stemming the flow of sensible people reclaiming their lives, family, time and enjoying their hard earned cash making good and lasting memories with their real family and friends.

Be well - but especially to those just waking up - be real well and please take care of each other, please don't get bitter or angry with yourself and don't get down on yourselves - it was cunning, well planned and sophisticated, do you ever expect such an organisation to do such things? No. Which is what bad people count on, your trust and musplacing it in them so they can take advantage. Please take good care of yourselves :)
Katie Higgins
2016-09-25 19:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
"And he never responds with Sutra in hand unless you call Buddhism in Action or Ikeda's lectures Doctrine. This is evident in his consistent and absence of Doctrinal References."
Oh really Richard? Really? I find tgat a really surprising assessment guven that I have directly quoted Sutea to you on a number if occassions and I rebutted your shaky argument on Gongyo using fully refernced and linked to Gosho.
Is your memory failing you? Or is this just more deliberate SGI media relations failled strategy?
Readers, donct take my word for it,go to the index and search my posts.
Lool, why do you think Mark, Katie and I get so much SGI attention lavished upon us? Because we are a direct and tangible threat to its operations and it's profits. Why? Because current SGI teaching isn't based on either the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teaching. It is unsustainable.
It's completely laughable thst tgree ordinary people who just happen to follow the Sutra and Gosho could drive a ciach and horses through a carefully concieved, carefully executed plan and completely wreck SGI's central mentor disciple teaching. Fantastic.
What does that tell you? That SGI is phenomenally weak, it's disortions of The Sutra and Nichiren got exposed in the harsh light of the Buddhism of the Sun. All of that money. All if that effort. All of those very expensive management consultants - poof! The millions of members money all went up in smoke.
More and more SGI members not turning up to activities, ducking study meetings, cancelling subscriptions to WT, contributions dropping. People returning their mandala, dropping out or wrting in to say "I quit". Less and less people willing to sing I seek Sensie songs, slavishly copy a fan dance routine.
More and more people thinking "err, I don't actually want to be shown as part of a cult group on You Tube, where my future employers, partners and friends might see how idiotic I look and was".
More and more people getting uneasey and queasy about the whole feel of this SGI Imperial Way Japanese militaristic mentor-diciple "protect the Emperor Daisaku and the SGI nation at any personal cost" thing, which was exactly the same mind set that led to two atomic bombs being dropped and fanatical fighters killing so many Americal and allied service personelle and Japanese soldiers and civilians.
More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."
More and more people looking at the way these guys have been treated. "Warm words from Chas when that guy Iain was still in SGI late in 2015 " stick with President Ikeda you'll be fine" then the instant switch when be quit, gloves off, open season...that could be me or any of us! It will be! Unless we tow the corporate line, say yes to Sensie and everything the Board of Directors and paid leaders tell us to do!!"
And then the growing realisation of utter powerlessness to do anything other than what the SGI want's me to do, followed by the blinding realisation that "I donct need to take this shit, I'm free, I can quit. I can still chant Daimoku, I can read the Sutra on my own, I can read Gosho on my own, I don't need a mentor who just wants my money and legitimacy - Nichiren says I am assured Buddhahood, the Sutra says the same.
That folks is why SGI hate us, that is why they work so hard here to try and do anything and everything to try and stop us from letting you stop, take stock and wake uo,just like drives of other SGI members have already done.
40% drop in members since 1988, 8 million people LESS. SGI's figures but you are being told you are growing and advancing! You knew it was wrong, you had tgat vague feeling of unease. Somehow it's not the same, you couldn't put your finger on it.
You thought it was you, you put it out of your mind, tried to push it away but it's not you, it's SGI. It has got smaller, long term members have left or beem quietly kicked out. It's not your district struggling alone, it's not localised thing, it's global. Your senses were right, it doesnct have the same vibe because it's no longer the same thing. Mentor worship, Imperial Way Daisaku Emperor Worship SGI style.
And let me correct another of Richard / SGI corps false assertions, I repeatedly signpost people to their OWN direct reading of the Sutra and direct reading of Nichiren. So far from telling people what what to believe, I direct back to Sutra, Gosho and their own Daimoku.
But never let a good fiction get in the way of the truth eh Richard/SGI?
Good luck stemming the flow of sensible people reclaiming their lives, family, time and enjoying their hard earned cash making good and lasting memories with their real family and friends.
Be well - but especially to those just waking up - be real well and please take care of each other, please don't get bitter or angry with yourself and don't get down on yourselves - it was cunning, well planned and sophisticated, do you ever expect such an organisation to do such things? No. Which is what bad people count on, your trust and musplacing it in them so they can take advantage. Please take good care of yourselves :)
Great points, iainx - I am happy to report that your message is penetrating the fog in both the Washington DC/Baltimore Maryland area-- where members I have known for 28 years are really starting to wake up.

Cheers!

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 21:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Katie, there's movement here too. On a more local level, I've had some really warm and engaging encounters with SGI folk recently. They're turning up in the most unexpected situations.

I also learned that the Women's chief in a neighbouring District has quit and her replacement has been recently spotted reaching out to other spiritual orgs. People aren't finding what they need in SGI anymore. It's just sad that some of those who go are done with the Sutra because of their bad experience with SGIkeda Corp.

Of course it's just the rhytmn of the Law and SGIkeda's causes. Chas's cohort likes to blame everyine else fir what sits only at Daisaku's door but peolle are seeing through it now. Interesting that it's happening globally. I bumped into a growing movement in Italy on You Tube that's denouncing SGI's activities, that did surprise me if I'm honest, since the Italian organisation really took off and had some of the most ardent members but it seems that they've also started waking up and speaking out. I don't read Italian well but from the little I've managed to translate/read it's exactly the same themes.

A return to faith and simplicity can't come soon enough but at this rate, that will be pretty soon - lool can they really keep Daisaku on ice until he's 115 years old? Itcs a tough position, they'd probably wanted to announce his death this year, finally. My guess is that's what the change of prayers was about. Oops, then what was a "local difficulty" popped up on Chas's watch in one of the forum's he posts too. Here.

Chas bungled it and it snowballed. Chas cohort has been bunglung it ever since and even the multi thread posting and new three step process, where one or both of the other SGI ARBN boy band members does a shorish, dicreditation/misrelresentation and Chas follows up with a mega long thread filler post, that's not working either.

I rather like their floundering inventiveness. Have you boticed that Chas is getting so sloppy with his thread fillers that iften he hasn't spotted that they don't finish off properly. Lool, I haven't had the heart to tell him that he's posted about fifteen of the same post in different places with the identical bit missing, the sentence just trails off.

Of course that's a dead give away, he doesn't read them, his cohort diesn't exoect them to get read. The whole point us just to block up the thread with junk but focus people on the little messages that he puts up front. The two or three step process is similar but a little more sophisticated.

One or other or both of the boy band members will come in first, posting their smears, disparagement, mischaracterisations etc. That's the negative message that Chas cohort wants to send and readers to retain, Chascs mega post then comes in after to block up the tgread, the hope is tgat readers will see that, feel overwhelmed and stop reading at that point, taking the negative message with them. The boy band tactic is supposedly more effective because to a casual reader, in SGI thinking, it's a different voice.

I've worked up an "immnunisation" post to warn readers so they can skip round it but from the feedback Icm getting, I'm not sure it's needed, it seems folk have understood what's going on with the boy band and are skipping them anyhow and circulating the genuine discussions. People have got wise to it and it seems they've even started to use the boy band posts as a signpost to the good stuff. Which is really funny, I giggled when I heard that. More Boy Band activity = other postings worth reading & threads to take note of was the way it was put to me, they've even adopted the tag!

Course for poor Chas and his crew, I'm not sure where that leaves them, out of a job? Lool. Seriously though, I hope they don't suffer too much and can find something better to do. By now they're probably wishing they could too. My advice - chant Daimoku - Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. It won't help with acitivites here, well not their's anyway but it would be good for each of them personally.

Have a great evening Katie! Hermione my hero :D
Katie Higgins
2016-09-26 04:22:28 UTC
Permalink
"I rather like their floundering inventiveness. Have you noticed that Chas is getting so sloppy with his thread fillers that iften he hasn't spotted that they don't finish off properly. Lool, I haven't had the heart to tell him that he's posted about fifteen of the same post in different places with the identical bit missing, the sentence just trails off.<<"
YES! I have noticed and it is a hoot!! Reminds me of that scene in the Wizard of Oz when the curtain is drawn back we see a little old guy frantically pulling levers to no avail. The *big powerful Oz* no longer projected via holograph ! Only Chas can't handle his exposure with the same aplomb as the de-wizzed wizard in this very profound children's story. No. Chas tries to up the ante-- and then he starts pulling the wrong levers--- and the sock puppets are all off key now.

YES! people are wise to Chas' tactics--- he has been stretched beyond his limits; he has risen to the level of his incompetency. But so have the SGI top leaders who still believe the curtain is concealing their true identities. Also a hoot!

I am expecting to see this phenomenon reflected in society--- any day now. The corruption I have seen and spoken out about is also a *simple matter*--- and some people who have both credentials and courage are beginning to take note. We need a grand victory for *the people*-- especially those who are most vulnerable in our society, kids and the young adults who spare nothing to protect their human rights.

That's when I think of Chas and his cohorts--- sitting on their bums railing against US ! Oblivious to ANY reality, which is the effect of the poison they spread. How obvious is their disdain for humanity? Well, how about posting the same refuted comments over and over -- never reading the original posts or bothering to address US as *fellow believers*--- ? Railing about war crimes and linking US to events that happened before we were born -- or old enough to read and understand world events; linking US by insisting we are *the enemy*-- ONE, of SGI's many enemies, I should say. The categories broaden moment to moment-- and poor Chas sees noting strange about this.

Well, I do realize why Clark Kent flew over to ARBN-- now that I know why he can fly, that is ;-)

Cheers!!!

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-26 18:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Lool Katie "Well, I do realize why Clark Kent flew over to ARBN-- now that I know why he can fly, that is ;-)"

Oh no he's not wearing his Daisaku underwear over his trousers again is he? And what have we told him about capes? "No capes!" They only trip you up and they don't conceal your identity, plis thay make and awful swishing sound when you're running from one ARBN panic to another trying to put out all the fires you've inadvertantly started!

Perhaps it's the mask getting in the way when he types?... oh no...that's the Joker isn't it? Or is it the Riddler?...No that's Jules, it can't be the Riddler...well it's one of them... ;) I've never been very good at comic book zeros.

Oh well - let's hope they be well :)
Katie Higgins
2016-09-26 19:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Comic book "zeros" 😄 -/ too funny.

Can't be an error -/ way too much true essence permeating this space these days ❤️

Just goes to show that the true essence of a "person, place or thing" cannot remain concealed when the true essential teaching is present.

Nor does the ocean hold on to corpses -

No, I am not waxing cryptic-- like Julian or the newest member of the "Boy Band" - space -d out treasury - this is from a passage of the Gosho- description of the Lotus Sutra using for comparison " the great oceans "--

cheerio 💃
~ Katie
k***@gmail.com
2016-09-26 19:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Iain. This sums where i have got.to... thanks for the post


More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."

Once i realised this and also appreciated all the experiences i have...my daimoku and faith has gone completely back to basics and i love it again. Freedom.
Katie Higgins
2016-09-27 03:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Iain. This sums where i have got.to... thanks for the post
More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."
Once i realised this and also appreciated all the experiences i have...my daimoku and faith has gone completely back to basics and i love it again. Freedom.
Number one reason why three *guests* report "I would never join SGI"
Post by k***@gmail.com
" this ain't Buddhism"<<
It appears that it is easier for clear minded observers to spot the obvious.

~Katie
Chas.
2016-09-27 04:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Iain and Katie learn about the common mortal, the true aspect vs. statues, and mentor and disciple +

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/q5KquzMkPUk/wC0sjQuuBAAJ

On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 9:40:36 AM UTC-7, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| Stick to the point Chas, you have 8 points outstanding
||| that you are avoiding addressing based on Gosho. Your
||| attempts to divert discussion to another irrelevant track
||| are noted.
|||
||| Readers can decide for themselves the extent to which
||| your over generalised assertions about scientists and
||| scholars are correct based on the fact that the airplanes
||| the fly in generally but not always take off, stay in the
||| air and land safely.
|||

Bernoulli's principle which underlies lift is well understood. It has to do with the mean free path of the random walk of particles in a gas which is always largest in the direction of low density (less traffic.)

||| How does that happen, ah yes scholarly and scientific
||| rigor. The computers and the net they use are products of
||| quantum mechanical understandings of the world. How does
||| that happen? Oh yes the same rigor.
|||

However, quantum mechanics is the least understood of all disciplines, even by the best. Feynman would often remark that we know the general rules that Mother Nature operates by, but they are mighty strange and no one understands why she does things the way she does. This is even more true now as we mix quantum mechanics with relativity in small areas. Did you know that an un-accelerated observer looking at a vacuum sees only occasional virtual particles being created and destroyed, but an observer under strong acceleration sees the vacuum filled with particles?

There is even a rocket engine that appears to work that uses these virtual particles as reaction mass. The world is mighty strange indeed, and few would profess to have the kind of deep understanding that would allow anyone to have blind faith in one scholar.

||| The fact that they can now often survive what were once
||| terminal illnesses because of advances in medical
||| science, how does that happen? Oh yes, the same rigor.
|||

The most effective of modern medicines extracted from natural sources are used, but little understood in terms of why they work and others like them don't, an exception to this is CRISPR and other synthetic approaches which we understand quite well, precisely because we made them with a purpose. The purposes and intent of the plants, fungi and animals we get most medicines from are not yet clear to us. We just have found them to be effective in certain cases, under certain regimes.

||| If Jacqueline Stone is such a poor scholar, because she
||| happens to present an argument and information that is
||| inconvenient to your fantasy view of the world, how come
||| she was good enough to help translate the very writings
||| you have relied upon for so many years? Why did SGI
||| employ her?
|||

I don't remember analyzing that scholar or any other. What I am challenging is your blind trust in one academic source in probably what is the softest of sciences: Buddhist historiography. The academy in that discipline is filled with Theravada/Hinayana scholars who cannot be trusted. They regularly ignore physical evidence in favor of their cherished beliefs, which are distortions of the truth.

||| But that's besides the point isn't it? Because you
||| can't quote Gosho to support your case and even the Oral
||| Record doctrine you have quoted undermines it.
|||
||| I'll say again, if we are all "born a buddha", which is
||| your sentence not mine, what need for Shayamuni, Nichiren
||| etc. what need for activities for kosen rufu?
|||

I showed this to you before in part, but you ignored it, which is the main reasons you still have eight points for me: such is my Sisyphean role in this Greek tragedy. I will continue to roll the stone up the hill of your ignorance, however.

This time I will walk you through it, both highlighting and inserting commentary, so that you cannot miss the point. ("Hope springs eternal", said Sisyphus under the watchful eye of Persephone)

From "The True Aspect of All Phenomena", WND I, p. 383-385:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-3

... NO ONE BUT NICHIREN has ever revealed teachings like these.
... Though T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyō knew about them in
... their hearts, they never put them into words. They went
... about their lives keeping this knowledge to themselves. And
... there was good reason for this. The Buddha had not
... entrusted them with the task, the time had not yet come,
... and they had not been the Buddha’s disciples from the
... distant past. Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices,
... and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth cannot only appear during the
... first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law and
... spread the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, the essence
... of all phenomena, BUT ALSO GIVE CONCRETE FORM TO THE
... CEREMONY OF THE TWO BUDDHAS SEATED SIDE BY SIDE IN THE
... TREASURE TOWER. The reason is that what they are to spread
... and give concrete form to is none other than the teaching
... of the actual three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life in the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching.
...

1. "No one but Nichiren" has revealed these teachings, not even Shakyamuni, Lord of Teachings, who is negatively included with all others in the phrase "no one".

It was no one else's mission, but Nichiren Daishonin to reveal the highest truth hidden at the heart of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin explains this in various other places as due to the time, however, it is also due to who Nichiren Daishonin is.

Nichiren Daishonin is the man for that moment, who turns that wheel that makes the new era of the Latter Day of the Law or Mappo, by revealing the truth that no one else can reveal.

This is the man Iain calls a "latter commentator", and who I call Daishonin or True Buddha. Nichiren Daishonin is the revealer, not the commentator, oddly, that role is left to Shakyamuni who predicted Nichiren Daishonin's revelation of the heart of the Lotus Sutra: the heart of the highest teaching.

The heart of the highest teaching that he reveals is not indicated directly in any quote in the Lotus Sutra, such that you can actually logically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what Nichiren Daishonin reveals is the truth.

The truth of the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, as in all far lesser religious truths, is not logically deduced or induced, but is based on faith alone: however, in both the Western and Eastern worlds, Reason includes both Logic AND Faith.

Hence, faith-based logic is reasonable, unless you are without faith, then that logic is not reasonable and makes no sense whatsoever.

Faith in this case implies practice, you have to chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to come to believe in it and experience the result to gain faith.

2. However, before you can have faith in the power of the daimoku, you had to have faith in Nichiren Daishonin, who reveals that highest truth, you would have to have faith in the mentor, that he is revealing to you, the disciple, the absolute truth and nothing else. Otherwise, your practice of the Lotus Sutra would be Tendai, and simple recitation of its chapters to your statues.

Not having faith in Nichiren Daishonin, since you had never heard of him, you had to have faith in the mentor that introduced you, or taught you to chant, or led the first district meeting you went to, or ... whoever the bodhisattva was: that person had faith in the daimoku, the Gohonzon and hence, that Nichiren Daishonin was in fact, completely right! The disciple first receives faith in the veracity of Nichiren Daishonin (or an echo of it) from their mentor.

3. "Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices, and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among the Bodhisattvas of the Earth ..." "... also give concrete form to the ceremony of the two Buddhas seated side by side in the treasure tower." That concrete form is the Gohonzon, the highest object of worship.

Shakyamuni not only cannot reveal the highest teaching ... also, he cannot enscribe the Gohonzon.

Why? Because it is not his mission given by the eternal Buddha. That was given to the very first of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, Nichiren Daishonin, as the embodiment of Superior Practices, or Jogyo.

This means you either trust what Nichiren Daishonin says and choose the Gohonzon as your highest object of worship to chant the daimoku to, or distrust Nichiren Daishonin and chant the daimoku to your statues. You will however, have to choose which path to take, with hell to pay upon your mistaken choice.

... THEREFORE, THE TWO BUDDHAS, SHAKYAMUNI AND MANY TREASURES,
... ARE BUDDHAS WHO ARE FUNCTIONS [OF MYOHO-RENGE-KYO]. IT IS
... MYOHO-RENGE-KYO THAT IS THE TRUE BUDDHA. This is what is
... described in the sutra as “the Thus Come One’s secret and
... his transcendental powers.” THE “THUS COME ONE’S SECRET”
... REFERS TO THE ENTITY OF THE BUDDHA’S THREE BODIES, AND IT
... REFERS TO THE TRUE BUDDHA. “His transcendental powers”
... refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers
... to provisional Buddhas. A COMMON MORTAL IS AN ENTITY OF THE
... THREE BODIES, AND A TRUE BUDDHA. A Buddha is a function of
... the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case,
... though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the
... three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
... sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. ON THE
... CONTRARY, IT IS COMMON MORTALS WHO ENDOW HIM WITH THE THREE
... VIRTUES.
...

4. "Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha."

Shakyamuni (and Taho) are functions of the eternal Buddha, Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which we invoke in the daimoku.

Is that crystal clear? If you chant the daimoku, you have to have faith that Nichiren Daishonin is correct, otherwise Myoho-Renge-Kyo would not be the eternal Buddha: and if you accept that, then Shakyamuni would not be a function of Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

You cannot have it both ways, you must give up the supremacy of Shakyamuni and stop chanting to images of him, since you cannot chant the highest teaching hidden in the Lotus Sutra that was revealed by Nichiren Daishonin unless you agree with him on this completely central point. Stop chanting to functions, and chant to the Gohonzon.

5. These three phrases (a through c, below) refer to the common mortal, or true Buddha, which Nichiren Daishonin is, and also you and I as well as every common mortal. Common mortals in the Mappo era, after Nichiren Daishonin revealed the truth, are also Bodhisattvas of the Earth, according to Josei Toda.

Here's the proof of Nichiren Daishonin's point.

a. '“Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha.'

You can grammatically reconstruct that sentence correctly thus: '“Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, AND “Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the true Buddha.' This is because the sentence contains two logical declarations conjoined as a logical tautology (true in all circumstances or interpretations - Wittgenstein).

This is where the logical connection is made between the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and the true Buddha. The AND means that the logical tautology is dependent on both pieces being conjoined in referential identity (otherwise the reference could not be true to both, because they could not be aliased together.)

Hence,
{the true Buddha = entity of the three bodies.}

b. "A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha."

You can grammatically reconstruct that sentence correctly thus: "A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies AND a common mortal is a true Buddha." This is because the sentence contains two logical declarations conjoined and they are jointly logically tautological in nature. The AND means that the logical tautology is dependent on all three pieces being conjoined in the strong identity "is".

Hence,
{a common mortal = the true Buddha = entity of the three bodies.}

c. "On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him [Shakyamuni] with the three virtues."

You can logically insert the connected declaration (from section b.) into that sentence thus: "On the contrary, it is common mortals {a common mortal = the true Buddha = entity of the three bodies} who endow him [Shakyamuni] with the three virtues."

6. These two phrases (d and e) refer to provisional Buddhas like Shakyamuni, who are functions of the three bodies of the true Buddha.

d. '“His transcendental powers” refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas.'

Similarly, this can be reduced to:
{provisional Buddhas(e.g., Shakyamuni) = functions of the three bodies}

e. 'A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not so.'

Finally, this can be reduced to:
[provisional Buddhas(e.g., Shakyamuni) = functions of the {three bodies of {the entity = a common mortal = the true Buddha}}]

Q.E.D.

Any decent logician can verify this result. Find one with no skin in the game, like a Jesuit logic professor.

That suggestion follows the same reasoning whereby the Zen practitioner Burton Watson became part of the effort to translate all the SGI documents along with the Gosho translation committee. He had zero skin in the game with the disputing Nichiren sects, the only exception being his reputation as the world's foremost translator of Japanese and Classical Chinese writings by scholars of that era (Buddhist monks) into English.

Go ahead, challenge his veracity on any phrase in any of the texts he was part of. I'd like to see that.

This is why these translations are correct and those of the various Nichiren temples are not. It's because Sensei went to the top outside expert in the field, and paid a price for that.

... The “Thus Come One” is explained clearly in T’ien-t’ai’s
... commentary as follows: “The Thus Come One is a general
... designation for the Buddhas of the ten directions and the
... three existences, for the two Buddhas, the three Buddhas,
... the true Buddha, and provisional Buddhas.” THE “TRUE
... BUDDHA” HERE MEANS COMMON MORTALS, WHEREAS “PROVISIONAL
... BUDDHAS” MEANS BUDDHAS. However, because of the difference
... between ordinary people and Buddhas that stems from the
... disparity between delusion and enlightenment, ordinary
... people are unaware that they are endowed with both the
... entity and the functions of the three bodies.
...

'The “true Buddha” here means common mortals, whereas “provisional Buddhas” means Buddhas.'

That is another direct quote making this very point again. Clear and straightforward and unmistakable.

The common mortal is the true Buddha, whereas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures in all their eternal glory as inscribed on the Gohonzon, are functions of the entity that is any common mortal enveloped in his or her delusion.

That means that if a statue worshiper really wanted to enshrine a more proper image to chant to, it would be the picture of a drunk or a hooker on the street: better that, than just a FUNCTION of that true Buddha, that very human being.

This is why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.

All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.

This also, BTW explains that passage with all of the negations from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

... his body neither existing nor not existing,
... neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
... neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
... neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
... neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
... neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
... neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
... neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
... neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
... neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
... neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
... neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color

This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.

... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...

Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.

... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...

Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit"

"an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."

However, there is hope even for them, because:

'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'

... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?

Who else but Sensei, the SGI, and my unworthy self?

||| Of course, to get out of that one and make a case for
||| mentor-disciple transmission, you'll have to fess up that
||| the argument you are attempting to make is about inherant
||| functions of life, not defacto manifestation of those
||| qualities. For that one needs faith and Daimoku.
|||

Let's deal with Iain's false complaint upon his secret departure from the SGI, that Sensei and the SGI only recently veered away from Buddhism into the mentor and disciple principle. This is an ignorant proposition due to the evidence of mentor and disciple in the Lotus Sutra that I have presented now many times, and also a baseless complaint on your faux 'surprise' at the discovery of the veering.

Here is an example of two speeches, one from 1991 and one from 2007, both of which are focused on the mentor and disciple principle that was present from the beginning in the very first volume of the Human Revolution written by Sensei, and in fact the first volume of the Human Revolution written by Josei Toda.

From SGI President Ikeda’s speech at a youth training meeting held at Soka University of America, Calabasas, Calif., October 1st, (1991),

... Yesterday, at the conference for leaders of the United
... States and Canada, I talked briefly about the reasons for
... Nikko Shonin’s departure from Mount Minobu.
...
... The fundamental cause for his departure lay with the
... decadent priest Mimbu Niko [one of the five senior
... priests], who tolerated and even encouraged slanderous
... actions on the part of Hakiri Sanenaga, the steward of the
... area. This caused the area of Minobu [where Nichiren
... Daishonin spent the latter years of his life] to become
... defiled.
...
... Among Niko’s perverse views were his accusations that Nikko
... Shonin indulged in non- Buddhist literature. [Non-Buddhist
... literature here indicates Brahman writings of India, the
... Confucian and Taoist works of China, and general, secular
... and literary works. In some cases, the term is used to
... indicate scholarly writings and the Chinese classics, which
... at the time were considered the basic foundation of all
... learning, much as the liberal arts are today.]
...
... Nikko Shonin strictly upheld the spirit of Nichiren
... Daishonin as revealed in “On Establishing the Correct
... Teaching for the Peace of the Land.” Based on this spirit,
... he instructed Hakiri that for him to make pilgrimages to
... Shinto shrines was [against the Daishonin’s teaching and
... therefore] impermissible.
...
... Hakiri thereupon sought the counsel of Niko. Niko told
... Hakiri: “Being a person who indulges in non-Buddhist
... literature, Nikko reads ‘On Establishing the Correct
... Teaching for the Peace of the Land’ from that perspective,
... and so he fails to grasp its more profound meaning.” He
... thus undermined Hakiri’s trust in Nikko Shonin.
...
... Nikko Shonin cites Niko’s words in the letter, “Reply to
... Lord Hara,” saying: “[Mimbu Ajari Niko answered Hakiri’s
... queries, saying:] ‘That the tutelary benevolent deities
... have abandoned this country is written in “On Establishing
... the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land.” However,
... Byakuren Ajari [Nikko Shonin], basing himself on
... non-Buddhist scriptures, reads it in a biased manner and so
... is incapable of understanding its true intention’”
... (Hennentai Gosho, p. 1731).
...
... Niko contradicted the Daishonin’s teaching in telling
... Hakiri that it was therefore all right to visit Shinto
... shrines. Furthermore, he told him to visit shrines as often
... as he wished on the grounds that the Buddhist gods would
... gather at a shrine if a person who embraced the Lotus Sutra
... went there to pray.
...
... Hakiri placed his complete trust in this false teaching,
... which allowed him to do as he wished. “Niko is a priest who
... can be reasoned with,” Hakiri probably thought with
... delight. Almost invariably, a lay person’s deviation from
... the Daishonin’s teaching can be traced to the influence of
... a decadent priest skilled at accommodating the demands of
... lay people [regardless of what is correct from the
... standpoint of Buddhism].
...
... To Hakiri—who had lost his faith—the admonitions of Nikko
... Shonin, who strictly protected the Daishonin’s teaching by
... staunchly refuting slander, had already become little more
... than a source of irritation.
...
... Nikko Shonin declared Niko’s tolerance of slander to be
... “the workings of the devil king,” “a betrayal of the late
... mentor” and “[an offense equal in gravity to committing]
... the seven cardinal sins.” If someone who is charged with
... responsibility for protecting and spreading the Daishonin’s
... teaching willfully distorts and arbitrarily alters the
... teaching, then the actions of such a person certainly
... represent the workings of the devil. They are the actions
... of a priest of the greatest evil, who is guilty of
... betraying the mentor and committing the seven cardinal
... sins. This is what Nikko Shonin taught.
...
... These historical facts contain an important lesson.
...
... First of all, those who betrayed the mentor [Nichiren
... Daishonin] after his death all sought to justify themselves
... by making reference to some “more profound meaning”
... contained in his teaching, despite all documentary proof to
... the contrary.
...
... In Buddhism, the offense of betraying the mentor is
... extremely grave. It amounts to destroying the very life of
... Buddhism. People who do so try to win acceptance for their
... false views by saying, “You should listen to what I say,
... irrespective of what my mentor wrote.” And if someone
... presents them with written proof that shows their words or
... actions to be wrong, they try to gloss over the
... contradiction by saying: “That is a superficial level of
... interpretation. The true meaning is found elsewhere.”
...
... In exactly this manner, the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood is
... contradicting the Gosho and the guidance given by the
... successive high priests, desecrating them and attempting to
... consign them to oblivion. [A contemporary example of this
... is found in the priesthood’s abrupt denial of high priest
... Nittatsu’s view on the significance of the Grand Main
... Temple. This view had served as a fundamental guideline for
... both priests and lay believers of Nichiren Shoshu for more
... than twenty years. Yet now the priesthood claims claim that
... “the former high priest’s true intention is not contained
... in his official statements but is found elsewhere.”]
...
... ‘Although the mentor has died, his writings remain.’
...
... Nikko Shonin came to learn that Hakiri, in a quandary over
... whether it was permissible for him to make pilgrimages to
... Shinto shrines, had been making such remarks as: “The
... priests in the Kamakura area (followers of the five senior
... priests) say it is all right for me to go, but Nikko Shonin
... of Minobu has told me that I must not. Who should I listen
... to now that the Daishonin has died?”
...
... Thereupon, Nikko Shonin strictly instructed him: “Although
... the mentor has died, his writings remain. This is in ‘On
... Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the
... Land’” (Hennentai Gosho, p. 1731). When the Daishonin is no
... longer in the world, it is his writings that we should make
... our mentor. So long as we continue practicing in accordance
... with the Gosho, what possible cause for confusion can there
... be? Here Nikko Shonin teaches the fundamental attitude for
... the Daishonin’s followers.
...
... What a remarkable contrast between the attitude of Nikko
... Shonin, who made the Gosho his foundation, and that of
... Niko, who based himself on his own personal views and
... neglected the Gosho!
...
... We in the SGI are advancing in perfect accord with the
... teaching of Nikko Shonin, who represents the treasure of
... the Priest, as we make the Gosho our foundation. At the
... same time, we are now witnessing the appearance of the
... followers of Niko within Nichiren Shoshu.

Ikeda, D. (2001, April 6). Mystic Law Gives New Life to All Knowledge. World Tribune, pp. 1-2.

Note, how sixteen years later, nothing has changed in the view of President Ikeda, in regards to mentor and disciple. From President Ikeda's "The Great Vow of Kosen-Rufu and the Path of Mentor and Disciple" (2007),

... Nichiren then emphasizes the profound karmic bonds of
... mentor and disciple that link him and Sairen-bo, to whom
... this writing is addressed and who had weathered persecution
... on account of upholding Nichiren's teaching. To cherish the
... same great desire and to fight with the same spirit of
... selfless commitment as the mentor, even in the face of
... arduous difficulties, is the path of the oneness of mentor
... and disciple in the struggle for kosen-rufu in the Latter
... Day of the Law.
...
... It is the mentors and disciples of the Soka Gakkai who have
... revived the great path of Nichiren Buddhism in the present
... age, widening and expanding it further so that today it
... connects people throughout the world.
...
... The mentor of the "kosen-rufu of the entity of the Law (the
... Gohonzon)" is Nichiren Daishonin -- the Buddha of the
... Latter Day who revealed the Law of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo for
... the enlightenment of all humanity into the eternal future
... and set forth the method for its propagation.
...
... The Soka Gakkai is an organization carrying out the
... Buddha's will and decree. It is a harmonious gathering of
... believers directly connected to Nichiren and has spread
... Nichiren Buddhism throughout the world while overcoming
... countless hardships and obstacles.
...
... Kosen-rufu is a struggle to help all people transcend the
... suffering of death and actualize lives of genuine
... happiness, thus establishing a world in which genuine peace
... prevails. This is the true purpose of Nichiren's propagation.
...
... The Soka Gakkai's founding president, Tsunesaburo
... Makiguchi, fully inherited this spirit and set an example
... of selfless dedication to Buddhism by giving his life for
... his beliefs. The second president, Josei Toda, carried on
... Mr. Makiguchi's struggle with the same unwavering
... commitment. He established the ideals and practice of the
... Soka Gakkai and laid the framework for the harmonious
... community of believers founded on the spirit of "many in
... body, one in mind."
...
... Earnestly following this great path of mentor and disciple,
... upholding the principles of humanism and pacifism that are
... the essence of Nichiren Buddhism, I have spread its
... essential message across the globe through the pursuit of
... dialogue. When this path followed by the first, second and
... third presidents of the Soka Gakkai flows vibrantly as the
... lifeblood transmitting the philosophy and practice of
... Nichiren Buddhism throughout the world, the foundation of
... kosen-rufu in the present age will have been completed. The
... crucial five-year period for completing this process has
... now begun.

Ikeda, D. (2007). The Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life. 2007 Buddhist Learning Review, pp. 75-76.

Your complaining about your "surprise" that Sensei only recently focuses closely on mentor and disciple as a prime requirement for achieving itai doshin, the unity of true believers (which is a prime requirement for achieving Kosen Rufu: if one truly cares about that,) is specious and unfounded: it was always there and you probably followed it until you started looking around for a good reason to make your deceptively secret departure, and then replace Sensei, steal his followers and start your own Sangha.

Once again, I express my condolences to the suffering friends and leaders of Iain in the SGI that had to go through the selfish and pointless finger-pointing theatrics of your departing Olympian death-scene.

||| You are ignoring one very key part of the Sutra in
||| trying to argue your case. You are also ignoring, as did
||| Mr Ikeda, one very key part of the Gosho he purports to
||| lecture on. I've been saving that, letting you tie
||| yourself in knots first.
|||

Spill it and your confused misinterpretation with it, or hold it back with your Tenji-ma gloating: that's your choice.

||| I suggest you do your homework and go read Heritage in
||| it's entirety, see if you can spot the extremely explicit
||| paragraph about transmission that directly refutes all
||| your objections and attempts to narrow the debate onto
||| what you foolishly thought was safe ground.
|||

Have read it. Ditto "Spill it and your confused misinterpretation with it, or hold it back with your Tenji-ma gloating: that's your choice."

||| Consider that me giving you a head start to prepare
||| your defense. Don't worry, I'll easily catch you up and
||| overtake you. It's not hard when SGI and Mr Ikeda's 2009
||| teaching is so variant with Nichiren's.
|||

The 2009 principle of mentor and disciple, and the 1991 principle, and Mr. Toda's, and Mr. Makiguchi's, and Nikko Shonin's (the finest disciple of the finest mentor, ever!) Nikko Shonin is invariant with respect to Nichiren Daishonin.

[snip the final perfidy of putting words in my mouth, again. That is not unlike lying, if I have never said those words, yes?]

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 11:40:58 AM UTC-7, ***@gmail.com wrote:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/110#para-4

||| "The meaning of this passage is that one should not
||| rely upon the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers, but
||| should heed what was established by the Buddha."
|||
||| Presumably bodhisattvas and teachers are common mortals.
|||
||| So here's the substitution:
|||
||| "The meaning of this passage is that one should not
||| rely upon the words of the common mortals and common
||| mortals, but should heed what was established by common
||| mortal".
|||

Wrong and out of context.

I was substituting in the same set of statements describing who is the true Buddha (common mortal) and who is a provisional Buddha (Shakyamuni). In context in the same logical flow of the same paragraph, not from another Gosho letter written in another year.

Oh, well, you cannot get it, your eyes are blinded to the truth of what Nichiren Daishonin is saying.

But at least I tried.

My point is proven, and you are wrong.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 9:47:28 AM UTC-7, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| Chas, you forgot to take note:
|||
||| Let's look into "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon", and
||| see what Nichiren teaches us.
|||
||| "This mandala is in no way my invention. It is the
||| object of devotion that depicts Shakyamuni Buddha, the
||| World Honored One, seated in the treasure tower of Many
||| treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas who were Shakyamuni's
||| emanations as perfectly as a print matches its print
||| block."
|||

Your argument is a non sequitor and is sign of your fallacious reasoning and mental corruption. I never claimed that Nichiren Daishonin invented the Gohonzon, which is a depiction of the ceremony in the air at the moment that the Law is passed from the mentor (Shakyamuni) to the disciples (Bodhisattvas of the Earth, chiefly Jogyo Superior Practices, who is Nichiren Daishonin).

Nichiren Daishonin is the common mortal, who is the true Buddha, as are you and myself. Shakyamuni is a function of our true Buddhahood, this is what Nichiren Daishonin says. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, you cannot believe in the daimoku, which Nichiren Daishonin revealed and that you have to take on faith. He sadi it, I didn't, why do you want to thwart what he says so clearly with all this flak? Just accept it.

According to the Ongi Kuden and thus Nichiren Daishonin, the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, son of "the grandfather".

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15

... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: In
... this passage we learn about the Buddha of the original
... state [that is, the Buddha of limitless joy]. “Grandfather”
... is another name for the Dharma-realm. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the “Expedient Means” chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as “grandfather.” Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.
...
... The word “wheel-turning” refers to the phases of birth,
... abiding, change, and extinction. The words “sage king”
... refer to the element of the mind. These three factors,
... appearance, nature, and entity, are the father and mother
... of all the Buddhas of the three existences of past,
... present, and future.
...
... Now, when Nichiren and his followers chant
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they are acting as father and mother
... of the Buddhas of the three existences, as their
... grandfather, the wheel-turning sage king.

That passage refers to this one, the one and only reference to "the grandfather", where his son who is the father of Shakyamuni, Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, attains enlightenment when "the Law of the buddhas finally appeared before him" :

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... “Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme perfect
... p.157enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
... householder’s life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... “Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a hundred,
... thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects, all
... together surrounded the sons and followed them to the place
... of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the thus
... come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer alms,
... pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they arrived,
... they bowed before his feet, touching their heads to the
... ground.

Aside from that, who knows, I don't. As far as I can tell, the eternal Buddha has no person otherwise identified in the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni attained enlightenment after his father.

At any rate, who was first hardly matters, unless you want to worship a statue of the first enlightened one.

I am satisfied that the Buddha leading our regiment of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth is Nichiren Daishonin, AKA Jogyo Superior Practices. He is the mentor whose Gosho I have made my mentor. I practice as he says and only that way. I worship no person and images of no person.

I worship the Gohonzon of the True Aspect of all Phenomena, which, BTW is a topic none of you have touched on, although I have elucidated it fully for your edification.

||| "It is also stated that the profound principle of the
||| true aspect is the originally inherent
||| Myoho-renge-kyo.[Lotus sutra Chap.2] The Great Teacher
||| Dengyo said, "A single moment of life comprising the three
||| thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy. this
||| Buddha has forsaken august appearances." [The Treatise on
||| the Secret and Sacred Teachings]
|||
|||

Are you listening to yourself? The Buddha of Limitless Joy is without aspect, just as I quoted.

Not a statue of Shakyamuni. Get it?

||| Do you need page#'s-- not sure which text you have.
|||
||| IF Nichiren were the Original Buddha, teacher of
||| Shakyamuni, WHY wouldn't he claim credit for the SOURCE of
||| the Gohonzon as "his own invention"?
|||
||| OR REVEAL the identity you claim is is TRUE identity?
|||

Here is the text reference and also 450 or so lines above this line:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

Didn't claim that. Putting words in my mouth is lying. Don't do that.

All common mortals are the true Buddha, led by Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren Daishonin is the leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, AKA Jogyo.

||| With your own presumptions,You, Chas are identifying
||| Nichiren as a cunning, duplicitous teacher-- when it is
||| your Sensei who has earned that title a million times
||| over!!
|||

This is a pile of crap and weird supposition, avoid it Katie.

||| And that is the crux of the matter. You lost your true
||| mind before you posted your first comment on this
||| site---such is the fate of those who "follow evil
||| teachers".
|||
[snip the rest.]

-Chas.
Katie Higgins
2016-09-27 04:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Number one reason why three *guests* report "I would never join SGI"
" this ain't Buddhism"<<
It appears that it is easier for clear minded observers to spot the obvious.

~Katie

Noting this same phenomenon described by *new* readers here--re: Chas' teaching : the "strategy of the beached whale"

Very encouraging !
~Katie
Katie Higgins
2016-09-27 16:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Iain. This sums where i have got.to... thanks for the post
More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."
Once i realised this and also appreciated all the experiences i have...my daimoku and faith has gone completely back to basics and i love it again. Freedom.
Thanks for posting this comment-- very encouraging for a good number of my friends still clinging to SGI--that have become regular readers here and on Eagle Peak.

I am glad to see new comments on these new threads---
\
The clouds are breaking !!

Namu=myoho-renge-kyo!

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-27 17:37:00 UTC
Permalink
"Iain. This sums where i have got.to... thanks for the post


More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."

Once i realised this and also appreciated all the experiences i have...my daimoku and faith has gone completely back to basics and i love it again. Freedom."

Thanks Kahlei! Your last sentence filled me with joy "my daimoku and faith has gone completely back to basics and i love it again. Freedom." I'm so glad you are doing well and long may it continue. You pop in at the most opportune moments and I want to thank you. Your posts always inspire and encourage me. You are one of the genuine voices here, sincerely seeking. I have been glad of such company.

Your sentence sums up perfectly my own experience. I think itcs extrairdinary that so many are converging on the same realisation from so many different directions. I can onky assume that this is the rhythm of the Law, working in each of us.

Thank you once again for taking the time to post and share, I know you are busy, so that is so precious. :)

I always say it but please be well :)
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-27 18:07:09 UTC
Permalink
So Tricky Dickie is uo to his old tricks of deleting posts again.


You can read the deleted posts in context here at the Newsgroup Archive:

http://alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.narkive.com/VBg3irXZ/namu-myoho-renge-kyo-the-nammer-scammers

Itcs also worth a visit because tge oasted links of You Tube videos display in post. You can get an idea of how tge video looks before playing it. Some lovely altar set ups there and beautiful Nichiren Gohonzon mandala.

Thanks to Alex and Katie especially for posting these! :)

Be well :)
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 21:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
"And he never responds with Sutra in hand unless you call Buddhism in Action or Ikeda's lectures Doctrine. This is evident in his consistent and absence of Doctrinal References."
Oh really Richard? Really? I find tgat a really surprising assessment guven that I have directly quoted Sutea to you on a number if occassions and I rebutted your shaky argument on Gongyo using fully refernced and linked to Gosho.
Is your memory failing you? Or is this just more deliberate SGI media relations failled strategy?
Readers, donct take my word for it,go to the index and search my posts.
Lool, why do you think Mark, Katie and I get so much SGI attention lavished upon us? Because we are a direct and tangible threat to its operations and it's profits. Why? Because current SGI teaching isn't based on either the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teaching. It is unsustainable.
It's completely laughable thst tgree ordinary people who just happen to follow the Sutra and Gosho could drive a ciach and horses through a carefully concieved, carefully executed plan and completely wreck SGI's central mentor disciple teaching. Fantastic.
What does that tell you? That SGI is phenomenally weak, it's disortions of The Sutra and Nichiren got exposed in the harsh light of the Buddhism of the Sun. All of that money. All if that effort. All of those very expensive management consultants - poof! The millions of members money all went up in smoke.
More and more SGI members not turning up to activities, ducking study meetings, cancelling subscriptions to WT, contributions dropping. People returning their mandala, dropping out or wrting in to say "I quit". Less and less people willing to sing I seek Sensie songs, slavishly copy a fan dance routine.
More and more people thinking "err, I don't actually want to be shown as part of a cult group on You Tube, where my future employers, partners and friends might see how idiotic I look and was".
More and more people getting uneasey and queasy about the whole feel of this SGI Imperial Way Japanese militaristic mentor-diciple "protect the Emperor Daisaku and the SGI nation at any personal cost" thing, which was exactly the same mind set that led to two atomic bombs being dropped and fanatical fighters killing so many Americal and allied service personelle and Japanese soldiers and civilians.
More and more people realising "you know what? This ain't what I signed up for! This ain't Buddhism. I came here to maje my life better, my family, my relationships, my work and all I've ended up doing is degrading myself by working for free for a hugely wealthy, closed and totally unaccountable organisation in which I have zero say. I've ended up giving away my hard earned cash to a business that diesnct care about me or my life."
More and more people looking at the way these guys have been treated. "Warm words from Chas when that guy Iain was still in SGI late in 2015 " stick with President Ikeda you'll be fine" then the instant switch when be quit, gloves off, open season...that could be me or any of us! It will be! Unless we tow the corporate line, say yes to Sensie and everything the Board of Directors and paid leaders tell us to do!!"
And then the growing realisation of utter powerlessness to do anything other than what the SGI want's me to do, followed by the blinding realisation that "I donct need to take this shit, I'm free, I can quit. I can still chant Daimoku, I can read the Sutra on my own, I can read Gosho on my own, I don't need a mentor who just wants my money and legitimacy - Nichiren says I am assured Buddhahood, the Sutra says the same.
That folks is why SGI hate us, that is why they work so hard here to try and do anything and everything to try and stop us from letting you stop, take stock and wake uo,just like drives of other SGI members have already done.
40% drop in members since 1988, 8 million people LESS. SGI's figures but you are being told you are growing and advancing! You knew it was wrong, you had tgat vague feeling of unease. Somehow it's not the same, you couldn't put your finger on it.
You thought it was you, you put it out of your mind, tried to push it away but it's not you, it's SGI. It has got smaller, long term members have left or beem quietly kicked out. It's not your district struggling alone, it's not localised thing, it's global. Your senses were right, it doesnct have the same vibe because it's no longer the same thing. Mentor worship, Imperial Way Daisaku Emperor Worship SGI style.
And let me correct another of Richard / SGI corps false assertions, I repeatedly signpost people to their OWN direct reading of the Sutra and direct reading of Nichiren. So far from telling people what what to believe, I direct back to Sutra, Gosho and their own Daimoku.
But never let a good fiction get in the way of the truth eh Richard/SGI?
Good luck stemming the flow of sensible people reclaiming their lives, family, time and enjoying their hard earned cash making good and lasting memories with their real family and friends.
Be well - but especially to those just waking up - be real well and please take care of each other, please don't get bitter or angry with yourself and don't get down on yourselves - it was cunning, well planned and sophisticated, do you ever expect such an organisation to do such things? No. Which is what bad people count on, your trust and musplacing it in them so they can take advantage. Please take good care of yourselves :)
Free indeed...the Buddha of absolute freedom that no prison can contain. This would have to go down as the former and opressed members of SGI's Declaration of Independence - Gasho
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-24 23:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Ah Noel, I was just abkut to relpy to your message but it's deleted!

"Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas."

I'm not sure this is correct. Namu was in use across Japanese Buddhism before Nuchiren used it. He has been unfairly critiscised for stealing the Nembutsu chant Namu Amida Butsu, which he also chanted very early in his training and to which he refers. Also, Nichiren did not invent the Daimoku, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo had already been used for a long while before Nichiren.

What he did do is give it special significance, making it the centre of his teaching. So, the notion that Nichiren choose phonetically, doesn't really fit the facts. I posted over on Eagle Peak the relevant section ogmf Gosho where Nichiren states that "Namu is a phrase that is commonly used to worship Gods", this is borne out by Japanese Buddhist practice and also by his inclusion of that against other figures on his Gohonzon mandalas and even the Chapters of the Sutra.

I find it difficult to believe that Nichiren would have gone off piste and used a commonly understood phrase, that was common currency and then chosen his own characters to represent a phonetic for the Daimoku. Indeed, examining the Namu in Nembustu and the Daimoku reveals the same characters used, with slight stylistic differences in the calligraphy (the Nembutu lacks Nichirens rays branching out from the Daimoku). Albeit, there is some variation in some calligraphic examples of the Nemutsu from the examples I have seen but these are in the minority (I don't tend to spend too much time looking at the Nembutsu for obvious reaasons).

These are the Namu characters of the Nembutsu (Nainfo) in Kanji 南無 and these are the Namu characters from the Daimoku 南無. These are taken from their respective Wikipedia pages.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namu_My%C5%8Dh%C5%8D_Renge_Ky%C5%8D

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nianfo

As you will see they are the same.

I hope my reply to Alex will cover off the other points you raise and my reasoning. I default to the written firm and the full pronounciation but accept that the heart is important. I explained this over on Eagle Peak too.

Also, since I am Mudpie, I wrote from that perspective, I don't think I have ever disparaged you and if I have, please point it out and I will apologise.

As I am here, I can be mischievous and playful at times, John Tate helped me to understand that this can come across in the wrong way, so I adjusted my style with him. Alex at other times has helped me to understand if I have been disrespectful and I have been grateful for his sage observations.

With you though Noel, I have always had a cordial rapport and been appreciative of your posting, even if I do not always agree with your points, so I was genuinely surprised that I may have offended you amd concerned that I had.

Please let me know.

Be well :)
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 07:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Ah Noel, I was just abkut to relpy to your message but it's deleted!
"Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas."
I'm not sure this is correct. Namu was in use across Japanese Buddhism before Nuchiren used it. He has been unfairly critiscised for stealing the Nembutsu chant Namu Amida Butsu, which he also chanted very early in his training and to which he refers. Also, Nichiren did not invent the Daimoku, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo had already been used for a long while before Nichiren.
What he did do is give it special significance, making it the centre of his teaching. So, the notion that Nichiren choose phonetically, doesn't really fit the facts. I posted over on Eagle Peak the relevant section ogmf Gosho where Nichiren states that "Namu is a phrase that is commonly used to worship Gods", this is borne out by Japanese Buddhist practice and also by his inclusion of that against other figures on his Gohonzon mandalas and even the Chapters of the Sutra.
I find it difficult to believe that Nichiren would have gone off piste and used a commonly understood phrase, that was common currency and then chosen his own characters to represent a phonetic for the Daimoku. Indeed, examining the Namu in Nembustu and the Daimoku reveals the same characters used, with slight stylistic differences in the calligraphy (the Nembutu lacks Nichirens rays branching out from the Daimoku). Albeit, there is some variation in some calligraphic examples of the Nemutsu from the examples I have seen but these are in the minority (I don't tend to spend too much time looking at the Nembutsu for obvious reaasons).
These are the Namu characters of the Nembutsu (Nainfo) in Kanji 南無 and these are the Namu characters from the Daimoku 南無. These are taken from their respective Wikipedia pages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namu_My%C5%8Dh%C5%8D_Renge_Ky%C5%8D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nianfo
As you will see they are the same.
I hope my reply to Alex will cover off the other points you raise and my reasoning. I default to the written firm and the full pronounciation but accept that the heart is important. I explained this over on Eagle Peak too.
Also, since I am Mudpie, I wrote from that perspective, I don't think I have ever disparaged you and if I have, please point it out and I will apologise.
As I am here, I can be mischievous and playful at times, John Tate helped me to understand that this can come across in the wrong way, so I adjusted my style with him. Alex at other times has helped me to understand if I have been disrespectful and I have been grateful for his sage observations.
With you though Noel, I have always had a cordial rapport and been appreciative of your posting, even if I do not always agree with your points, so I was genuinely surprised that I may have offended you amd concerned that I had.
Please let me know.
Be well :)
Mud Pie Boi which one are you... Virtue Victorious or Invincible who latter became the Great King ASOKA or his consort ?

Thanks for your wise council, I stand to be corrected when I said that Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

If Nichiren didn't who did ? Nembutsu probably took them from someone else. Whoever did they used them for their phonetics rather than the meaning of the Chinese symbol which was more the point that I was making

I knew that others knew about NMLK in the past but didn't make it known like Nichiren did

Why doesn't anyone care about Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"
I feel that this is more important than whether or not the U is dropped.

Obviously it is the elephant in the room that know one wants to acknowledge

Can you please discuss it Mark, Chas,Alex etc and see what they have to say about it

"In Buddhist symbolism the lotus is symbolic of purity of the body, speech, and mind as while rooted in the mud, its flowers blossom on long stalks as if floating above the muddy waters of attachment and desire. It is also symbolic of detachment as drops of water easily slide off its petals.

It is also to be noted that many Asian deities are depicted seated on a lotus flower. According to legend, Gautama Buddha was born with the ability to walk and everywhere he stepped, lotus flowers bloomed." wiki
spacetreasury
2016-09-25 07:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Ah Noel, I was just abkut to relpy to your message but it's deleted!
"Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas."
I'm not sure this is correct. Namu was in use across Japanese Buddhism before Nuchiren used it. He has been unfairly critiscised for stealing the Nembutsu chant Namu Amida Butsu, which he also chanted very early in his training and to which he refers. Also, Nichiren did not invent the Daimoku, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo had already been used for a long while before Nichiren.
What he did do is give it special significance, making it the centre of his teaching. So, the notion that Nichiren choose phonetically, doesn't really fit the facts. I posted over on Eagle Peak the relevant section ogmf Gosho where Nichiren states that "Namu is a phrase that is commonly used to worship Gods", this is borne out by Japanese Buddhist practice and also by his inclusion of that against other figures on his Gohonzon mandalas and even the Chapters of the Sutra.
I find it difficult to believe that Nichiren would have gone off piste and used a commonly understood phrase, that was common currency and then chosen his own characters to represent a phonetic for the Daimoku. Indeed, examining the Namu in Nembustu and the Daimoku reveals the same characters used, with slight stylistic differences in the calligraphy (the Nembutu lacks Nichirens rays branching out from the Daimoku). Albeit, there is some variation in some calligraphic examples of the Nemutsu from the examples I have seen but these are in the minority (I don't tend to spend too much time looking at the Nembutsu for obvious reaasons).
These are the Namu characters of the Nembutsu (Nainfo) in Kanji 南無 and these are the Namu characters from the Daimoku 南無. These are taken from their respective Wikipedia pages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namu_My%C5%8Dh%C5%8D_Renge_Ky%C5%8D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nianfo
As you will see they are the same.
I hope my reply to Alex will cover off the other points you raise and my reasoning. I default to the written firm and the full pronounciation but accept that the heart is important. I explained this over on Eagle Peak too.
Also, since I am Mudpie, I wrote from that perspective, I don't think I have ever disparaged you and if I have, please point it out and I will apologise.
As I am here, I can be mischievous and playful at times, John Tate helped me to understand that this can come across in the wrong way, so I adjusted my style with him. Alex at other times has helped me to understand if I have been disrespectful and I have been grateful for his sage observations.
With you though Noel, I have always had a cordial rapport and been appreciative of your posting, even if I do not always agree with your points, so I was genuinely surprised that I may have offended you amd concerned that I had.
Please let me know.
Be well :)
Mud Pie Boi which one are you... Virtue Victorious or Invincible who latter became the Great King ASOKA or his consort ?

Thanks for your wise council, I stand to be corrected when I said that Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

If Nichiren didn't who did ? Nembutsu probably took them from someone else. Whoever did they used them for their phonetics rather than the meaning of the Chinese symbol which was more the point that I was making

I knew that others knew about NMLK in the past but didn't make it known like Nichiren did

Why doesn't anyone care about Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"
I feel that this is more important than whether or not the U is dropped.

Obviously it is the elephant in the room that know one wants to acknowledge

Can you please discuss it Mark, Chas,Alex etc and see what they have to say about it

"In Buddhist symbolism the lotus is symbolic of purity of the body, speech, and mind as while rooted in the mud, its flowers blossom on long stalks as if floating above the muddy waters of attachment and desire. It is also symbolic of detachment as drops of water easily slide off its petals.

It is also to be noted that many Asian deities are depicted seated on a lotus flower. According to legend, Gautama Buddha was born with the ability to walk and everywhere he stepped, lotus flowers bloomed." wiki
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 10:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Aww Thanks Noel, I'm neither, I chose the name because although I'm deluded, I try do my best, to remind myself that sincerity can substitute for for total mastery provided it is genuine and is beneficial when it does and also to remind myself that The Buddha and The Law, the core of our lives always knows.

I alao took the name because I was and am inspired by the story. There are so mny who choose names to emphasise their supposed accomplishment, usually grest Buddhacs or bodhisattvas to hide behind, it seemed appropriate to remind myself and others of my lack of accomplishment amd focus on the will to do better.

I do believe there is an example of that tagging who has just come into this thread (not you Noel). ;)

On another note Noel, please be careful here, this is not Eagle Peak, where we may be challenged and disagreed woth but where your won't be lied about and you won't have people trying to say you said things you quite clearly did not say or making up false accusations. The same is not true of this place. Some of the people here are crooked and warped.

I'll give you the same advice as Alex gave me when I arrived here, look carefully and listen well. Watch your back especially woth Chas, Julian and Richard and be aware that they will deliberately try to bait you and try to stoke anger and to frustrate you if they see it is to the SGI's advantage to.

On a more positive note, there are good people here to. Alex I have mentioned, Katie you know, Kahlei pops in occassionally as does Daisy and there are many more good lurkers who dwell in here to read it's pages.

There is an index, if you are interested in some of the discussions, I'll move it back to the top. :)

Also be aware there is am archive to this place that captures all posts,even those that have been deleted. So my advice is not to post in haste.

Because I'm dyslexic, I have found it helpful to use another application to try and get my posting more readable. It also helps if the board crashes when posting. A phone or tablet note taker is ideal but programs like One Note, Evernote are also good. Doing it this way, helps me also to compose my thoughts and enables me to find and repost sections that maybe important. Sometimes I don't post because that drafting has made me realise I need to ponder or study. Lool using a note taker is certainly a help with the translations that are not online!!! Copying from books takes time.

Have a great day Noel and be well :D
Julian
2016-09-25 10:25:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Aww Thanks Noel, I'm neither, I chose the name because although I'm deluded, I try do my best, to remind myself that sincerity can substitute for for total mastery provided it is genuine and is beneficial when it does and also to remind myself that The Buddha and The Law, the core of our lives always knows.
I alao took the name because I was and am inspired by the story. There are so mny who choose names to emphasise their supposed accomplishment, usually grest Buddhacs or bodhisattvas to hide behind, it seemed appropriate to remind myself and others of my lack of accomplishment amd focus on the will to do better.
I do believe there is an example of that tagging who has just come into this thread (not you Noel). ;)
On another note Noel, please be careful here, this is not Eagle Peak, where we may be challenged and disagreed woth but where your won't be lied about and you won't have people trying to say you said things you quite clearly did not say or making up false accusations. The same is not true of this place. Some of the people here are crooked and warped.
I'll give you the same advice as Alex gave me when I arrived here, look carefully and listen well. Watch your back especially woth Chas, Julian and Richard and be aware that they will deliberately try to bait you and try to stoke anger and to frustrate you if they see it is to the SGI's advantage to.
Libel noted.
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 10:52:18 UTC
Permalink
You have openly admitted to throwing barbs Julian, your words not mine. And I've already gathered your examples in the Enraged Budfhism thread upon which you commented. It's only libel if it's not true.

Be well :)
Julian
2016-09-25 11:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
You have openly admitted to throwing barbs Julian, your words not mine.
You said more than that.
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 11:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Aww Thanks Noel, I'm neither, I chose the name because although I'm deluded, I try do my best, to remind myself that sincerity can substitute for for total mastery provided it is genuine and is beneficial when it does and also to remind myself that The Buddha and The Law, the core of our lives always knows.
I alao took the name because I was and am inspired by the story. There are so mny who choose names to emphasise their supposed accomplishment, usually grest Buddhacs or bodhisattvas to hide behind, it seemed appropriate to remind myself and others of my lack of accomplishment amd focus on the will to do better.
I do believe there is an example of that tagging who has just come into this thread (not you Noel). ;)
On another note Noel, please be careful here, this is not Eagle Peak, where we may be challenged and disagreed woth but where your won't be lied about and you won't have people trying to say you said things you quite clearly did not say or making up false accusations. The same is not true of this place. Some of the people here are crooked and warped.
I'll give you the same advice as Alex gave me when I arrived here, look carefully and listen well. Watch your back especially woth Chas, Julian and Richard and be aware that they will deliberately try to bait you and try to stoke anger and to frustrate you if they see it is to the SGI's advantage to.
On a more positive note, there are good people here to. Alex I have mentioned, Katie you know, Kahlei pops in occassionally as does Daisy and there are many more good lurkers who dwell in here to read it's pages.
There is an index, if you are interested in some of the discussions, I'll move it back to the top. :)
Also be aware there is am archive to this place that captures all posts,even those that have been deleted. So my advice is not to post in haste.
Because I'm dyslexic, I have found it helpful to use another application to try and get my posting more readable. It also helps if the board crashes when posting. A phone or tablet note taker is ideal but programs like One Note, Evernote are also good. Doing it this way, helps me also to compose my thoughts and enables me to find and repost sections that maybe important. Sometimes I don't post because that drafting has made me realise I need to ponder or study. Lool using a note taker is certainly a help with the translations that are not online!!! Copying from books takes time.
Have a great day Noel and be well :D
I appreciate your good intentions for warning me however I'm one of the people that all here needs to be warned about because I'm a lone wolf here and I mean business and I'm probably not the person that you think I am as I'm changing all the time.

I can not devote my affiliations to any particular group but share certain core values with NST regarding Ongi Kuden and those in the SGI that are aligned with its essence such as Chas. I don't know enough of Julian and Richard as yet but if they embrace the same metaphysical concepts as Chas well then we are on the same wave length on that level

When it comes to having an authentic 10 world Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon then I share that same value with Mark, Katie and maybe you

I am with you lain in your disapproval of the Soka Corporation

I love the old books Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra, unlocking the mysteries of birth and death that the SGI use to promote before humanism and Zennification set in

I'm pissed off with the leadership for letting this happen and the buck stops with Daisku Ikeda who could of done something about it but has been missing in action

I can chant Nam or Namu myoho lenge kyo with 6 beats or Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo with 7 beats with everyone however I choose to write Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 00:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Hi lain nice to meet you here in another Nichiren Buddhist War zone with its oasis of integral truths here and there that remind us of the common ground that we all share like your quote from the Sutra,aptly Medicinal Herbs...

I copied and pasted from Eagle Peack blog where I've been conversing with Mark Rogow, Katie Higgins, Greg Romero and Mudpie Boi over this issue. I was retaliating towards them not you, sorry if I've offended you I should be more careful in how I redirect my posts. I edited some of them so they would appear less confronting to those that aren't already pissed offl with me for presenting information and for sharing opinions that are not aligned with theirs as what is happening between you and Chas.

Whatever we say can create friends or enemies, today's friend is tomorrows enemy and vice a versa. This is why i like Nichiren Buddhism because it freely admits that we are the oneness of enlightenment and delusion and with that in mind we should go easy on each other as we all have the same condition however some are more deluded or enlightened than others and this is what is on trial here

These links are from the conversations on this topic that's opened a can of worms. I leave this to ARBN participants to discern for themselves what is being said

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/dropping-chracter-mu.html

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/it-is-more-important-to-tell-potential.html

"Please look carefully at my reply to Alex. Please look carefully at it's reasoning. If you can tell me that Nichirem sometimes wrote Nam and that Japanese people have the same debate because sometimes he wrote Nam and other times Namu, on some Gohonzon it is written Nam on others Namu, then that is an end of the matter, I am wrong."

Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

There is no Nammerscammer going on here but only the desire to uncover the truth of the matter

The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na is derived from NAN/minami (south) and the character 無 MU has multiple pronunciations MU,BU,nai/shi that mean NOT,NONE,CEASE TO BE (nothing) are used to express devotion

The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit Namas that means to dedicate one's life

Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo of the Gohonzon is only written in Chinese characters have many different ways of pronunciation there is no one specific way to pronounce Chinese symbols

I am personally more interested in what it is to what we are devoted to rather the pronunciation of the word that we use to express devotion of the Law of NMLK but since it keeps being brought to my attention I share my understanding from a different perspective that may not have come up before which is all about promoting healthy debate


If we understand, tried to understand, or become one with the Law, would it matter if we say Nam or Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo , Dropping or not dropping the pronunciation of the character Mu or even use both like the NST or SGI do..

Would this stop the eternal Buddha's work in our lives...come on lets get real and not create a fools paradise here even though we may have good intentions like the path that leads to Hell

Myoho Lenge is the essence if we truly understand this all else is quite trivial...yes!!!

Its all about the sincerity of heart that really counts. How could one be denied access to the Law if they didn't add Mu or drop it. I believe that the Law is bigger than that but if it wasn't I would have nothing to do with if it was as trivial as that

Why doesn't everyone focus on saying Lenge instead of Renge for a change and give Us a break as I've already provided documentary proof that Renge is just not right but I'm sure the Law understands and because of its infinite compassion she'll be right

http://youtu.be/MCyKKhOrOqE

Listen to this Nichiren Shu priest how to correctly pronounce the Japanese reading of the Chinese (Kanji) characters - Shindoku reading

He explains the correct pronunciation of Re is Le ( at 3 min) and how American's accuse Priests of saying Renge incorrectly what a bunch of Arrogant Booofheaded Bastards some American's are with such massive egos about being right that they are incapable of listening to reason even when its right in their face such is the sad state of affairs of this world
Chas.
2016-09-25 04:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Iain learns about Mentor and Disciple on the eve of his departure from the SGI +

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
[Written 7 days after Iain's belated announcement
that he had left the SGI on January 1st.]
Post by Chas.
Does the emphasis modern SGI teaching places on the
mentor-disciple relationship help or hinder practice of the
Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's Buddhism?
To address this question it is first necessary to define
what the SGI means by 'mentor'. The term is used in 6 main
1) The Law as mentor
2) The Buddha as mentor
3) One or other of the "3 Presidents"
4) Mr Ikeda as mentor
5) A generalised umbrella term that is used to refer to
any of 1-5 without being specific 6) A general concept that
wraps 1-5 into a 'oneness'
You forgot countless. President Ikeda once called the Gohonzon the true mentor, he has mentioned being mentored by children he talks to, and by Zhou Enlai of China (and many others), and has said the SGI is filled with great mentors and that they should mentor each other.
Post by Chas.
Using this term in so many different senses invites
confusion.
The true state of affairs in life is as confusing as hell. So, what?

.
. Skip all this ...
.
.

We begin with Iain's first (and I'm sure not the last) failed attempt (foiled by Julian) to create a new Sangha, one day after he secretly left the SGI:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/RULYUjCHykc/eHiAld6SEAAJ
Post by Chas.
Thanks Chas, I know it wasn't directed at me and I've
guessed there's a history between David and you, lool I've
seen some of the exchanges here and on Narchive! Still, I
found it surprising and I restate that I don't think you do
that, at least I hope you wouldn't!!!
Odd that you're having posts blocked, I haven't had
that at all but hey. So what do you reckon? Shall we move
out of the wild west and into a moderated forum? What's
your vote? Alex? David? Mark? Anyone else?
If we want to do that, I'd want to set some ground
rules we could agree on and that keep the forum lively,
free yet not prone to excesses of objectionable posting.
Provided that's agreed and stated up front, very happy to
moderate a group on that basis...
What say you guys? :)
I'm not interested in moderated fora unless I, alone, am
the moderator.
Even then it would be too tiresome to keep my interest
beyond a day
or so.
OK, thanks Julian, that's a pity. Not even if it's a
loosely moderated forum and moderated openly to jointly
agreed criteria? If you change your mind, let me know. I
hope you're doing well by the way. Happy New Year to you :)
In my experience, invariably, the moderators go insane
corrupted by even so little power.
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What follows are exchanges on the same topic of Mentor and Disciple in the previous month of December 2015 as Iain was secretly planning to leave the SGI and start a new Buddhism with a new Sangha on January 1st, but still hiding behind the false cloak of SGI membership: to freely denounce Sensei and the SGI from the inside, with impunity.
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/rndfISdEPvw/anCsekHyCwAJ

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 8:59:05 AM UTC-8, ***@gmail.com wrote:
[Written 17 days before Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]
Post by Chas.
Chas, my point was specific "organisation needed to propogate". My push back > If you are suggesting that the 'cadres' representated in the passage you quoted somehow mystically translates into this day and age in the shape of the SGI, I think that's a poor suggestion. No doubt in that mythology, Nichiren would be Superior Practices and the three presidents the other leaders of the bodhisattva's of the earth. I have no doubt that this could be what the forces that are reshaping the SGI away from the Law and Gohonzon are driving towards. Those who interpret the meaning have control over that meaning. Beats me Why anyone would need to write Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra when one can simply read it and chant Daimoku...
Your rhetorical technique of declaring some things to be others, or relabeling, is specious. The SGI history and struggle is not a "mythology", it is a fact.

Since you haven't bothered to read "The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra", how can you present a critique? You probably haven't read "The Living Buddha", "Buddhism, The First Millennium", or "The Flower of Chinese Buddhism", yet either. Those are world-renowned and widely-taught histories, as well. I would suggest reading them, you might learn something you don't already know.

Recent studies of how the human brain actually works presents some interesting insight. The technicolor and stereo picture you have of the world around us is not the way it really is. Vision signals come into the thalamus from the optic nerves and flow to the visual cortex in the back for processing and then to the cortex on top to create your world model a half-second delayed, incorporating the other sense paths.

What's interesting about this is that there is six times as much signal flowing back into the thalamus and modifying your vision signal as the original signal from the optic nerves. So what you see as "objective reality" is six times as much subjective as objective. Hence the people rambling around talking to themselves and seeing things are actually talking to people and seeing those things. Or the people who see their mother in a photo, feeding back six times as much information into the recognized image, surrounding her face with a golden aura and love and warmth...

Hence, what people perceive when the chant to the Gohonzon, or when they see Sensei, or go to an SGI meeting and chant together and talk with other members ... this is mostly context from the inside and not from the outside.

So, when David Cole was standing guard outside the chamber where President Ikeda was having personal meetings with one after another young women's division leader for many hours in Southern California all those years ago ... he perceived Sensei having sex with all those girls one after another in an act of superhuman sexual prowess unmatched by any human male in history. It was the only way he could explain what was progressing, and I'm sure he received visual, aural and other sense queues to reinforce that world model in his cortex. This was because he did not have the mentor and disciple relationship to protect him from the demons that arise at the beckoning of the devil king in all people who chant and attempt to attain enlightenment to challenge the dominion of the devil king over the six worlds.

You may have had similar "experiences" of SGI life.

My experiences are quite different.

My first experience with Sensei close up was in 1973? or 1974?, when I was a bus toban at the San Diego convention. There I was on the street holding back the crowd behind me to protect them from running out into the motorcade passing by 20 feet away. As Sensei smiled and waved at each of us: a joined wave of joyous sound passed up the street and finally got to me as we looked at each other.

I had no idea of what to expect and no preconceived expectations of any kind. I had precious little religious belief or faith in Buddhism. I was chanting, because I had a desire to make something of my life, and absolutely no faith in anything else whatsoever, so Buddhism was my only hope. I was, however, quite sincere and diligent in protecting my bus load of members, every step of the way from the very beginning of the trip until the last member stepped off the bus at the end and went on their way. Their well-being was my entrustment and in that moment I was fulfilling my vow, with no idea of what the effect would be of that cause. I was chanting like crazy on that trip, because every time the bus made a rest stop was another chaotic opportunity for deviltry to destroy the trip for someone or everyone. I would watch everyone like a hawk, and make precision head counts every time we got back on the bus.

As our gazes came close, my life condition soared, I know this now, because I have chanted many tens of millions of daimoku and that is how it feels to chant a lot.

As our gazes met, I perceived an image of black Chinese characters on a purest white background, I think the character myo (to open, to revive, to be fully endowed). I had never heard of such a thing from anyone and it was a surprise to me. As the motorcade went up the street and looked back at the people I was protecting and they were all similarly blown away.

It took me a while to process that experience and come up with a conclusion that in the mirror of the Gohonzon, we were simply two bus tobans doing our job, although his bus was significantly larger.

However, before and after coming to an understanding of that, a deep bond was formed in that moment, and every time there is an opportunity for devils to arise in the relationship of myself and Sensei, or the SGI or any leader or member of the SGI, that mentor and disciple relationship, like a grandmother cell in the visual cortex, recognizes him and them as true self. And anything that attacks them as something I have to deal with, sometimes with great care, other times very strictly.

And that sums up the world view residing in my cortex, permanently colored by that mentor and disciple relationship, never to be swayed by anything.

Now, this experience didn't make me a great bodhisattva or anything, I was still a lousy Buddhist, pursuing my career flying around the world, repeatedly out of touch from the organization periodically, missing gongyo a lot (so glad it's shorter), sometimes only chanting when I was miserable, which of course guaranteed a lot of that. But like the jewel sewn into the robe, the one and only thing in the world I had faith in was that relationship with Sensei, and that finally brought me back into focus in the SGI, where I found out we had been excommunicated. Being permanently on Sensei's side in any dispute, I traded in my Nittatsu Gohonzon for a larger Nichikan Gohonzon and here is my unworthy self, completely shed of any attachment to the NST priesthood.

As Nichiren states in "Encouragement to a Sick Person", pp. 77-78,

. Moreover, every single person is guilty of slander of the
. Law, an offense exceeding even the ten evil acts or the
. five cardinal sins. Although few people slander the Lotus
. Sutra with actual words of abuse, there are none who accept
. it. Some appear to accept the sutra, but their faith in it
. is not as deep as their faith in the Nembutsu or other
. teachings. And even those with profound faith do not
. reproach the enemies of the Lotus Sutra. However great the
. good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies
. the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand
. times, OR ATTAINS THE WAY OF PERCEIVING THREE THOUSAND
. REALMS IN A SINGLE MOMENT OF LIFE, if one fails to denounce
. the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to
. attain the way.

Note the characters in bold, even if you perceive ichinen sanzen in the Gohonzon and fail to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it is impossible to attain the way.

Iain, I note that you started chanting in 1988 (27 years ago, according to you), did you receive a Nikken Gohonzon? Have you done the Gohonzon exchange?

-Chas.

___________________________________________________________

***@gmail.com Dec 17, 2015 1:31 PM
[14 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

Thanks Chas,

I don't see any point discussing anything further with you. You have clearly formed a particular belief system founded on Mr Ikeda and SGI as absolute and unchangeable entities that seem not to be subject to delusion or capable of corruption. I have expressed my views and they are very clearly different from yours and incompatible. Our worldviews and view of the practice are mutually exclusive. Although I disagree with your views and your beliefs, you have a right to them. You are the boss of your life Chas and you alone are responsible for it. Likewise for me.

I would however like to correct you on your baseless assumption:

"Since you haven't bothered to read "The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra", how can you present a critique?"

I suggest you read my posts to understand how wrong you are. Especially the one that clearly states when I got my copies of that series. I find it surprising that you would make this error towards someone who clearly has an extensive library and who has clearly read and can reference the books within that library.

"You probably haven't read "The Living Buddha", "Buddhism, The First Millennium", or "The Flower of Chinese Buddhism", yet either."

These were among the first books of Mr Ikeda's that I got along with the Buddhism in action series. And, like many of Mr Ikeda's writings of that era, I got a lot from them. I can't remember precise dates of acquisition but I remember I got them from Richmond Green, when that was our National Centre, so 1988 - 1990? not much later.

"Those are world-renowned and widely-taught histories, as well. I would suggest reading them, you might learn something you don't already know."

Not quite Chas, I enjoyed them but by Mr Ikeda's own admission, they are to someone extent reimaginings. Buddhist history told in a digestible format and from a very particular standpoint. There is always more we can know Chas, I haven't stopped learning, nor will I.

On the Gohonzon exchange, what an odd question! Why even would it matter if I had or had not exchanged the Mandala? Gohonzon is Gohonzon, is Gohonzon. But since you are curious about the Mandala I chant to, Omamori was bestowed in about 1998 and Tokabetsu was bestowed in 2005, you work it out. Just let's be very clear, Gohonzon is found in the two characters for faith. That's the really important thing, not the Mandala in and of itself.

To end, I have noticed you like to try and keep the exchange going. In future of I need to respond, I will simply reference this post. As I said at the start of this post, I am not interested in further discussion with you for the reasons given. Good wishes to you and farewell. :)

___________________________________________________________

Chas. Dec 18, 2015 6:41 AM
Post by Chas.
Thanks Chas,
I don't see any point discussing anything further with you....
To end, I have noticed you like to try and keep the exchange going. In future of I need to respond, I will simply reference this post. As I said at the start of this post, I am not interested in further discussion with you for the reasons given. Good wishes to you and farewell. :)
Farewell, again, Iain.

-Chas.

___________________________________________________________

***@gmail.com Dec 19, 2015 5:30 AM
[12 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

An observation on the following statement from earlier in the thread is that if one understands and applies the nine consciousnessess model, this is self evident. In fact what is notable is the extent to which the findings of modern neuroscience support that model.


"... So what you see as "objective reality" is six times as much subjective as objective. Hence the people rambling around talking to themselves and seeing things are actually talking to people and seeing those things. Or the people who see their mother in a photo, feeding back six times as much information into the recognized image, surrounding her face with a golden aura and love and warmth...
Post by Chas.
Hence, what people perceive when the chant to the Gohonzon, or when they see Sensei, or go to an SGI meeting and chant together and talk with other members ... this is mostly context from the inside and not from the outside."
So briefly, on the nine consciousnessess. The 'sensory' consciousnesses are aligned to the senses of sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell but they are not those senses in and of themselves.

Their job is to filter and make sense of the input from the external world that comes via each of those inputs.

The sixth consciousness puts it all together into a coherent whole. However that is not a one way street. The 6th interplays with the sensory consciousnessess.

The seventh, allows deeper judgement, Dick Causton locates the ego in the seventh consciousness.

The eight is the 'storehouse' at a superficial level this is memory itself, a deeper reading would, in psychological terms be the subconscious, unconscious and even collective unconscious. A still deeper reading in Buddhist terms is that it is the seat of our karma and quite possibly the single greatest factor in shaping who we are.

Likewise, as for the 6th, there is an interplay between the collective of 6,7 & 8 and the sensory consciousnesses. Our internal subjective reality is the product of their collective operation.

One can look at this in a different way, thought (perception), influences feeling (emotion), emotion, influences behaviour, behaviour influences the way our external world responds, which in turn influences out thoughs (perception).

Our subjective perception (subjective reality) is essentially a model of the world (objective reality) that's all, it is not the fact itself.

How accurate our subjective reality is is determined by the limits on the amount of information we can hold and process plus the choices we make in rendering the world and the cognitive mistakes we make. Eugene Gendlin, in his philosophical works, has an interesting take on this.

The problem of subjective reality is that it's really hard to spot the limits of something that seems so real and spot the choices/errors we have made in creating it. Hence the usefulness of the ninth consciousness. Hence also why the ninth consciousness is said to 'purify' the other consciousnessess when it is active and operative.

Once one can see clearly, one then has a better basis for living well. Again, there similarities with this view, which could be said to be reliance on the Law, and with Gendlin's research in his counselling works, suggest the same phenomenon.

As Nichiren once said, attaining Buddhahood is nothing extraordinary. I think he's right. It is a purely natural function with us that should be simple but that gets overcomplicated and sometimes deliberately so by those with vested interests.

Most of the problem of becoming enlightened and routinely using enlightenment as an aid to living comes from trying to get past the compelling delusion of the perception we are presented with, which is created by the workings of the unenlightened 8 consciousnessess.

Just to make things more difficult, there is money to be made and power to be had by keeping people in an unenlightened state and keeping them dependent. It's unsurprising that any teachings and teachers that advocate and deliver people into the independence of their enlightened minds meet with persecution and resistance.

In today's world, that's probably most typified by powerful corporations that have become adept at using the nudges of behavioural economics and the insights that come from data mining, psychological profiling and neurological research to inform and drive whole marketing industries that effectively influence behaviour in unenlightened people.

Not that all powerful organisation are problematic but for some, can you imagine how undesirable a massive outbreak of enlightenment and thus independence, would be in the world population? People would be much harder to control, heavens they might even start thinking for themselves, challenging inequalities and elites. The share prices of some could plummet and careers left in tatters.

That's why a clear focus on reliance on the Law and steadfast faith are needed. It's the only route past an internal reality that is so compulsively believable even when it is so flawed and which is so ably supported and encouraged by elements in the external world.

This is indeed a difficult age...

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***@gmail.com 12/19/15
[12 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]
[Not the "appeal to authority" made by wrapping himself in the SGI leadership, even though he is secretly leaving it.]

Correction to this statement:

"You may have had similar "experiences" of SGI life."

That is made against the backdrop of the quotion further down.

The simple answer is no, my experience of SGI life has been very positive. The embedded assumption in the statement quoted is as follows: If you (I) had experienced a positive SGI life, I would have formed the same mystical bind with 'Sensei' and therefore I would not see anything but good in the SGI or Mr Ikeda. So by extension, I must have had a negative SGI life and not formed the proper bond with 'sensei' and not been protected by the mentor-disciple relationship. Therefore, by further extension I am in the 'other' group and therefore what I say can be dismissed.

OK now for the truth, not only have I had a very positive experience of SGI and its NST lay society forerunner, not only am I on record for having Saud so and credited Mr Ikeda but it is precisely because of taking careful note of what Mr Ikeda taught and of those wonderful people who helped me shape my faith that I dissent in some areas not.

I will not have the a lazy labelling applied, particularly when it is not accurate or true.

Let's be really clear about this, SGI teaching and those credited to Mr Ikeda have objectively changed. One can see that objectively by comparison of then and now teachings, side-by-side and like-for-like.

This is not a product of the internal workings of an imagining compelling deluded internal subjective reality, this is careful side-by-side textual analysis. Clearly there are differences.

I am true to what I embraced and was taught and remain so. I have put that into practice to great effect and continue to.

My view is that SGI has and is deviating from that true root, so as I am obliged to, as the SGI charter exhorts me to, I speak out.

It is unsurprising that those who would see an organisation they profess to fervently follow and a person who they have all but apothosised, try and dismiss such inconvenient views.

Every time an indisputable point is put it is ignored. As was the case in the textual analysis using Mr Ikeda's lectures on the same Gosho, then and now. Heaven forbid that objectivivity should get in the way of a nicely running, 6 fold thalamus feedback created subjective thrall We really don't want to disturb that Nice warm cosy golden glow now do we?

Such fake followers are like so many cunning and cowardly foxes barking in the night. They care naught for their organization nor their 'sensei' and even less for the Law.

So long as their selfish beliefs remain intact and they can continue to live in La, La land with the warmth of their golden internal reality decorated with black mystical Chinese characters on a pure white background floating in the air, like a bad rendition of the "The Bullet Proof Monk", they're happy. And they'll go to any length's to keep it that way.

This was the pitiful attempt at a slur on my SGI experience (rofl):

"So, when David Cole was standing guard outside the chamber where President Ikeda was having personal meetings with one after another young women's division leader for many hours in Southern California all those years ago ... he perceived Sensei having sex with all those girls one after another in an act of superhuman sexual prowess unmatched by any human male in history. It was the only way he could explain what was progressing, and I'm sure he received visual, aural and other sense queues to reinforce that world model in his cortex. This was because he did not have the mentor and disciple relationship to protect him from the demons that arise at the beckoning of the devil king in all people who chant and attempt to attain enlightenment to challenge the dominion of the devil king over the six worlds.

You may have had similar "experiences" of SGI life."

Good luck with trying to get anyone who knows me, including our current and two previous General Director's to support your view and your slur.

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Chas. Dec 20, 2015 6:02 AM

Didn't say you had those experiences.

Was saying that the mentor and disciple relationship is protective against such experiences.

Sorry you took it that way, was truly speaking from the heart.

-Chas.

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***@gmail.com Dec 20, 2015 12:48 PM
[11 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

That's true Chas you did not say 'I had' those experiences, you actually said I 'may have had' those experiences.

Still, I am having trouble reconciling your later statement, that you were illustrating your claim that the mentor disciple relationship was protective against, for want of a better phrase 'demon attack', with your speculation about whatever experiences I may or may not have had.

You choose David Cole to as a foil for your point, so why speculate about me and my experiences? Your point could have been made quite adequately without reference to me. Do you not think I'm close enough to Mr Ikeda and his teachings? Has it ever crossed your mind that I may just actually care quite a bit for him and this organisation? That I might just actually be one of the best 'disciples' he has? I know little but I know this, those who stray from the Law, suffer, that gives me no delight. So my first priority is as a votary of the Sutra. Who the heck do you think taught me that??? And who the heck, besides Mr Toda & Mr Makaguchi made it possible for him to be able to teach so??? Think, Chas think...

This was your actual quote. I 'took it that way' because it was put that way, it had no place being there.

But your apology, even though it is couched in the 'sorry you' (your problem) rather than 'sorry I' (I am responsible for my words) language, is accepted. Thank you.

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Chas. Dec 21, 2015 7:52 AM

There are clearly different writing styles at play here.

I make it perfectly clear at the outset who I am with and who is my Sensei, and [that] is the SGI and Daisaku Ikeda. No one has to ponder for a moment to get that from what I write.

I do not want anyone to think even briefly, that I might be objective or diffident about any of this, and willing to consider or to change over to their distortions of Lotus Sutra Buddhism, or some even lesser amalgamation with Hinduism, like Mark Rogow's.

I am utterly inflexible on that point, due to the mentor and disciple experiences I have described and many others.

The mentor and disciple principle has closed that door into chaos and misery for me. It is like armor, and I always strap on that armor.

-Chas.

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***@gmail.com Dec 21, 2015 9:56 AM
[10 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

And that Chas is precisely my point.

That inflexiblity and that concern only for yourself is what will be manipulated so that you end up betraying what you say you hold dear. Unless you are in direct and regular contact with Mr Ikeda? Which I very much doubt.

As I said in my previous post, this is just like the barking of cowardly, cunning foxes in the night. I'm not yet decided as to which type of fox you are.

The problem you refuse to confront in your naivete or wilful blindness, is that those who hold the image of the mentor and filter his words hold the power over such unthinking and gullible disciples.

Of course that could be benign, of course it could but that really isn't the point. 'If you slacken for even a bit demons will take advantage', seems an appropriate quote.

It is the same with those who hold the power over the lectures on the Gosho and the Sutra, likewise they who hold the power over the message, when the norm is that one reads Gosho and Sutra, only through the commentary, hold the power to make the Gosho and Sutra support whatever they want it to support. They are free from challenge, especially if it was the mentor's supposed interpretation!

That, my friend was exactly why SGI changed its regulations, to prevent such a situation arising or at least to counter it if it did. A fact that seems lost on you and which I note you have consistently refused to address.

You are so busy refuting and defending the enemies without, it doesn't seem to occur to you that the simplest way to defeat the good work that's been done is to corrupt the organisation from within.

But of course, you no doubt will be able to spot that if it happens, won't you Chas? Because those nice corruptors will have the decency to say 'Hi, we're here to corrupt the SGI', they'll wear nice big signs on their backs 'Icky a corruptor', just so as you can see them easily and take aim.

So, ridiculousness aside, just how would you spot such people? Just how would you know they are at work? Or do you propose that the mentor-disciple thingy is so potent, it will protect against that too?

So, is your proposition that all the nice people who say, act and do like good disciples should - they're OK.

All the slightly dodgy ones, like me for instance, who question, analyse and probe, we'll we are so obviously the ones to be wary of. Yeah, 'I've got a nice big sign on my back Chas', I'm a real threat.

Get real Chas, it's a leitmotive throughout human history that deceivers will always say and do what people want them too in order to get what they want and they will always have a plausible reason to cover any inconsistentcies. Only people who are solidly based, rely on the Law and take careful notice are not deceived and cannot be so.

You still haven't taken up the challenge to make a side-by-side comparison of Mr Ikeda's 1979 and 2009 lectures on the same Gosho Chas. Why not? You called me out on the shift of emphasis from Gohonzon to mentor-disciple relationship. I responded, as I said I would with direct proof, fully referenced, of that shift. And since you have been silent on that point. You refuse to look, or it's convenient for you not to, just let the indisputable point quietly drop...interesting behaviour.

Be streafast in you armour but since you are using militaristic analogies, you might take lesson from Agincourt to see the perils of becoming so locked in, bogged down and inflexible. That way defeat lies but it is your choice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

The flexible, who are fleet of foot and who have superior range, they, not the elites, win. And I thought in one of your posts that you said you knew how to fight, clearly not...

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Chas. Dec 22, 2015 7:21 AM

Nah. The armor of mentor and disciple is both light and flexible and worth wearing. Without it you an unprotected from evils like that with befell David [Cole]. Your analogy is more befitting Hitler's wunderwaffe foolishness.

And I am not blind to evil. However, there is a long distance between espousing higher principles, which I do, and leveling charges, which I won't do inside the sangha.

In your analysis of "shift", are you allowing for evolution of thought and of learning from experience? Dealing with the corruptions and evils of the NST priesthood was an advanced education in Buddhist ethics and philosophy in action. We would be poor students if we did not learn from it. Those shifts you describe are partly from that, partly from the wisdom of age and reflection.

Even though the 69,384 character Lotus Sutra and the Law are immutable, our understanding of it grows and changes. WE change.

-Chas.

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***@gmail.com Dec 22, 2015 9:31 AM
[9 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

Lool, reliance on the Law protects us from evil and only that. There are some things that should not change with learning from experience, reliance on the Law, which is the true object of worship and ultimately self reliance, is one of them. Your defence is weak.

If you have Omamori, you should know that difference well. The Gohonzon is subtly different because it's bearer has the faith to perform the protectivr function. Or didn't they tell you that when you received yours, if in fact it was bestowed on you.

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***@gmail.com Dec 22, 2015 10:36 AM
[9 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]
[And here is where Iain make a grievous error of miscategorization of the sutra.]

And just to be absolutely doubly without doubt, whilst the Immeasurable Meanings sutra, is indeed mentioned in the introduction to the Lotus Sutra, note that it is referenced there as a distinct entity. Also note the following passage, which you omitted to quote.

If you followed Nichiren's Buddhism as you claim, you would not quote a provisional teaching and treat it as equal to the Lotus Sutra, even if it is the opening sutra to the Lotus Sutra.

It is still provisional in comparison with the latter. The passage you omitted is the reason this is so. It clearly sets out why the Lotus is superior. What follows that passage is the unfolding of the wisdom of all Buddhas. Immeasurable meanings does not give one that, the Lotus does.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/1#para-149

"At that time the world-honored one, surrounded by the four kinds of believers, received offerings and tokens of respect and was honored and praised. And for the sake of the bodhisattvas he preached the great vehicle sutra entitled Immeasurable Meanings, a teaching to instruct the bodhisattvas, one that is guarded and kept in mind by the buddhas.


When the Buddha had finished preaching this sutra, he sat with his legs crossed in the lotus position and entered into the samadhi of the origin of immeasurable meanings, his body and mind never moving. At that time heaven rained down mandarava flowers, great mandarava flowers, manjushaka flowers, and great manjushaka flowers, scattering them over the Buddha and over the great assembly, and everywhere the buddha world quaked and trembled in six different ways."

Fat lot of good studying the 'Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra' regularly has done you if you cannot understand this most basic point. There seems to be a distinct lack of wisdom in your approach and understanding.

May I suggest you go back to the Gosho and carefully read Nichiren's writings on the matter until you grasp the point?

You might also ponder how the events unfold from there on. Later in that chapter, to understand why Immeasurable Meanings is provisional. Later in that same chapter (note the term 'great Law'):

(ibid)

"At that time Manjushri said to the bodhisattva mahasattva Maitreya and the other great men: "Good men, I suppose that the Buddha, the world-honored one, wishes now to expound the great Law, to rain down the rain of the great Law, to blow the conch of the great Law, to beat the drum of the great Law, to elucidate the meaning of the great Law.

Good men, in the past I have seen this auspicious portent among the buddhas. They emitted beams of light like this, and after that they expounded the great Law. Therefore we should know that now, when the present Buddha manifests this light, he will do likewise. He wishes to cause all living beings to hear and understand the Law, which is difficult for all the world to believe. Therefore he has manifested this auspicious portent."

So in other words, the Lotus Sutra is clearly telling us that this great Law has not been expounded in Immeasurable Meanings. The Buddha then starts expounding this great Law in chapter 2 of the Lotus Sutra.

Parroting terms like 'theoretical ichinen sanzen' and bandying them around is of little use if one can't distinguish provisional and true and if one thinks the object of worship is simply an expedient concept that can be de-emphasised and legitimately replaced with the mentor-disciple relationship because of acquiring learning since the time of practicing with the priesthood.

But thank you for confirming that a change of doctrine has in fact taken place.

___________________________________________________________

Chas. Dec 27, 2015 8:19 AM

I think you are incorrect.

The SGI Dictionary says this:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/I/14

. Immeasurable Meanings Sutra (Chin Wu-liang-i-ching;
. Muryōgi-kyō): Also known as the Sutra of Immeasurable
. Meanings. A sutra regarded as the introductory teaching, or
. prologue, to the Lotus Sutra. It was translated into
. Chinese in 481 by Dharmagathayashas, a monk from central
. India. The sutra describes the Buddha’s preaching on Eagle
. Peak and consists of three chapters. In the first, or
. “Virtuous Practices,” chapter, Bodhisattva Great Adornment
. praises Shakyamuni Buddha in verse on behalf of the
. assembly. This verse section contains the passage known as
. the thirty-four negations, referring to the substance or
. essence of the Buddha. In the second chapter, “Preaching
. the Law,” Shakyamuni explains that all principles and
. meanings derive from a single Law. He then declares:
. “Because their [people’s] natures and desires are not
. alike, I preached the Law in various different ways.
. Preaching the Law in various different ways, I made use of
. the power of expedient means. But in these more than forty
. years, I have not yet revealed the truth,” indicating that
. all the prior teachings were provisional and expedient. The
. final, “Ten Benefits,” chapter explains that by practicing
. this sutra one can obtain ten kinds of blessings. The
. Buddha encourages Bodhisattva Great Adornment and the other
. eighty thousand bodhisattvas present to propagate the
. sutra, and they vow to do so.

Nothing that I can see, other than from you, specifically describes the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra as a provisional teaching.

They say the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is "A sutra regarded as the introductory teaching, or prologue, to the Lotus Sutra."

The Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is preached after Myoho-Renge-Kyo is heard in the title of chapter one, or introduction to the Lotus Sutra. It is preached inside the Lotus Sutra and nowhere else, as far as I can see.

Provisional teachings cannot follow the utterance of the title of the Lotus Sutra.

And provisional teachings do not know the word provisional, that distinction is first drawn in the Lotus Sutra.

Now that is not to say it is the highest teaching, because it is not complete, in the same way that the Nirvana Sutra is not provisional, but is also not complete. Only the Lotus Sutra is both complete and final.

The first word of the title of the Lotus Sutra (Myo) encompasses all of the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren Daishonin. After the Lotus Sutra is preached, none of the Buddha's teachings are provisional.

In fact, I believe it is in the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra that Shakyamuni describes first what is provisional and what is true (in the above references.)

Note that in the "Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, chapter 3, Ten Benefits", it refers to the Lotus Sutra as "this sutra", not "that sutra". This implies, if not identity, at least that it [the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra] is non-provisional.

If a provisional teaching were used to support the complete and final teaching of the Lotus Sutra as the highest teaching in Buddhism, this would be a structural flaw in the support [of} the highest teaching, I believe.

Here are those 59 instances, capitalized:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/3

. “If there are living beings who are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, they will gain great profit. Why? Because if they
. can practice it, then without fail they will quickly gain
. unsurpassed enlightenment. As for those living beings who
. are unable to hear it, one should know that they will lose
. great profit, for though immeasurable, boundless,
. inconceivable asamkhya kalpas may pass, they will in the
. end fail to gain unsurpassed enlightenment. Why? Because
. they will not know about the great direct way to
. enlightenment, but will travel perilous byways beset by
. numerous hindrances and trials.
.
. “World-Honored One, THIS SUTRA is beyond comprehension. We
. beg that the world-honored one, taking pity upon this great
. assembly, will broadly expound the profound and
. unfathomable matters contained in THIS SUTRA. World-Honored
. One, where does THIS SUTRA come from, where does it lead
. to, where does it abide, that it should possess such
. immeasurable benefits, such inconceivable powers, assuring
. to the multitude the quick attainment of supreme perfect
. enlightenment?”
.
. At that time the world-honored one said to the bodhisattva
. mahasattva Great Adornment: “Excellent, excellent, good
. men. It is just so, just so, just as you have spoken. Good
. men, THIS SUTRA I preach is profound, profound, truly
. profound! Why do I say so? Because it assures that the
. multitude will quickly attain unsurpassed enlightenment.
. Because once one hears it, one can uphold all the
. doctrines. Because for living beings it brings great profit
. and enrichment. Because practicing it, one travels a great
. direct way free of hindrances and trials.
.
. “Good men, you ask where THIS SUTRA comes from, where it
. leads, where it abides. Listen carefully and with
. attention. Good men, THIS SUTRA issues originally from the
. dwelling and abode of the buddhas. Its aim is to lead all
. living beings to conceive the desire for enlightenment. And
. it abides in the practices carried out by bodhisattvas.
. Good men, this is where THIS SUTRA comes from, where it
. leads, and where it abides. Therefore THIS SUTRA is able to
. possess such immeasurable benefits, such inconceivable
. powers, and to assure to the multitude the quick attainment
. of unsurpassed enlightenment.
.
. “Now, good men, would you like to hear about the ten
. inconceivable benefits and powers that THIS SUTRA possesses?”
.
. Bodhisattva Great Adornment said, “Please, we wish very
. much to hear!”
.
. The Buddha said: “Good men, the first is that THIS SUTRA
. can cause bodhisattvas who have not yet conceived the
. desire for enlightenment to conceive such a desire. It can
. cause those who are without compassion or benevolence to
. nurture compassionate minds. It can cause those who delight
. in killing and slaughter to nurture minds of great pity. It
. can cause those filled with envy and jealousy to nurture
. minds of joyful acceptance. It can cause those who are
. begrudging and attached to things to nurture minds capable
. of relinquishing. It can cause those who are close-fisted
. and greedy to nurture minds of almsgiving. It can cause
. those of abundant arrogance and pride to nurture minds that
. uphold the precepts. It can cause those much given to wrath
. and anger to nurture forbearing minds. It can cause those
. who are indolent and lazy to nurture minds of diligence. It
. can cause those who are scatterbrained and disordered to
. nurture minds devoted to meditation. It can cause those
. with much ignorance and folly to nurture minds of wisdom.
. It can cause those who are not yet capable of saving others
. to nurture minds set upon saving others. It can cause those
. who practice the ten evil acts to nurture minds devoted to
. the ten good acts. It can cause those who delight too much
. in the conditioned to strive for minds fixed on the
. unconditioned. It can cause those whose minds are given to
. regression to cultivate minds of non-regression. It can
. cause those given to outflows to nurture minds free of
. outflows. It can cause those with many earthly desires to
. nurture minds that cleanse and extinguish such desires.
.
. “Good men, this is called the first benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the second inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, they will be able to comprehend and master
. hundreds, thousands, millions of meanings, so many that
. although immeasurable numbers of kalpas should pass, they
. would never be able to finish expounding the teaching they
. have received and uphold. Why? Because the meanings of this
. teaching are immeasurable.
.
. “Good men, THIS SUTRA may be likened to a single seed from
. which grow hundreds, thousands, ten thousands of other
. seeds, and from each of these seeds in turn grow more seeds
. numbering in the hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, so
. that they keep on increasing in this way until they become
. immeasurable. THIS SUTRA is like this. From a single Law
. grow hundreds and thousands of meanings, and from each of
. those hundreds and thousands in turn grow more, numbering
. in the hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, so that they
. keep on increasing in this way until there are an
. immeasurable, boundless number of meanings. That is why
. THIS SUTRA is called Immeasurable Meanings.
.
. “Good men, this is called the second benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the third inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, and are thereby able to comprehend and
. master hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of
. meanings, then although they have earthly desires, it will
. be as though they were free of earthly desires, and they
. will go in and out of the realm of birth and death without
. thoughts of fear or dread. Toward living beings they will
. acquire minds of pity and tenderness, and they will
. confront all phenomena with brave and stalwart thoughts.
.
. “They will be like a young man of great strength who can
. lift and hold aloft various heavy objects. The person who
. upholds THIS SUTRA will in like manner be able to shoulder
. the weighty treasure of unsurpassed enlightenment and bear
. living beings on his back, carrying them out of the path of
. birth and death.
.
. “Even before he is capable of saving himself he will be
. capable of saving others. He will be like a ship’s captain
. whose body is afflicted with grave illness, whose four
. limbs fail to function properly, and who remains on this
. shore. But he has a sound and durable ship and can always
. explain to others the articles needed to get them over the
. water, so that by providing these he can insure their
. crossing. The person who upholds THIS SUTRA will be like
. this. Though he is afflicted with the body of one who
. dwells in the five realms, constantly beset by one hundred
. and eight illnesses, and though he remains on this shore,
. the shore of ignorance, aging, and death, yet he will
. possess this durable great vehicle sutra, Immeasurable
. Meanings, which explains how living beings can be saved and
. how, if one practices it as it directs, one can escape from
. birth and death.
.
. “Good men, this is called the third benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the fourth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If living beings are able to hear THIS
. SUTRA, though they hear only one recitation, one verse, or
. just one line, they will be filled with brave and stalwart
. thoughts. Though they have not yet saved themselves, they
. will be able to save others. They will become companions of
. the bodhisattvas, and the buddhas, the thus come ones, will
. at all times turn toward such persons when they expound the
. Law. And once these persons have heard it, they will be
. able to accept and uphold all of it, abide by it without
. violation, propagate it for the sake of others, and preach
. it widely in accordance with what is appropriate.
.
. “Good men, such persons will be like a prince newly born to
. the king of a country and his queen. When he is one day,
. two days, or seven days old; one month, two months, or
. seven months old; one year, two years, or seven years old,
. though he is not yet able to manage the affairs of state,
. already he is respected and looked up to by the ministers
. and the people. He is a companion to the sons of other
. great kings, and the king and queen love and dote on him
. and are forever talking of him. Why? Because he is still
. just a child.
.
. “Good men, the person who upholds THIS SUTRA will be like
. this. The buddhas, who are the king, and the sutra, which
. is the queen, join together in harmony to give birth to
. this bodhisattva son. If the bodhisattva is able to hear
. THIS SUTRA, whether it is one line or one verse, one
. repetition, two repetitions, ten, a hundred, a thousand,
. ten thousand, or immeasurable, countless repetitions equal
. to the sands of a million ten thousand Ganges Rivers,
. though he cannot fully grasp the extent of its truth, and
. though he cannot make the lands of the major world system
. quake and tremble or with brahma sounds like the roll of
. thunder turn the great wheel of the Law, already he will be
. revered and looked up to by all the four kinds of believers
. and eight kinds of guardians, and he will have the great
. bodhisattvas for his companions. He will enter deeply into
. the secret Law of the buddhas and will be able to expound
. it without error or omission. He will be constantly guarded
. and kept in mind by the buddhas, who will pity and love
. him, favor and shelter him, because he is new in these
. studies.
.
. “Good men, this is called the fourth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the fifth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, accept, uphold, read, recite, or
. copy this profound, unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable
. Meanings Sutra, then although such persons are still bound
. and encumbered by earthly desires, unable to remove
. themselves from the concerns of the ordinary individual,
. yet they will be able to manifest and show to others the
. way of the great bodhisattva. They will be able to expand a
. single day so that it covers a hundred kalpas, or compress
. a hundred kalpas into a single day, causing other living
. beings to rejoice and give wholehearted assent [to their
. words].
.
. “Good men, these good men and good women will be like
. little dragons who, only seven days after they are born,
. are already able to make clouds rise up and rain to fall.
.
. “Good men, this is called the fifth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the sixth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If good men or good women, while the
. Buddha is in the world or after he has passed into
. extinction, accept, uphold, read, or recite THIS SUTRA,
. then although they are still encumbered by earthly desires,
. they will be able to preach the Law for living beings and
. enable them to break away from earthly desires, from the
. realm of birth and death, and to cut off all suffering.
. Once living beings have heard them, they will carry out
. religious practice, gaining the doctrines, gaining various
. stages, and gaining the ways, just the same as if they had
. been taught by the Buddha, the thus come one.
.
. “Suppose, for example, there is a prince who, although
. still just a boy, is entrusted with the management of
. affairs of state because the king is abroad on a journey or
. has been seized by illness. If at that time the prince
. follows the king’s orders and abides by the law in issuing
. directives to the various clerks and government officials,
. guiding the flow of affairs in a proper manner, then each
. of the people of the state will comply with the spirit of
. his instructions, and the order that prevails will be like
. that when the king himself is in charge.
.
. “The good men and good women who uphold THIS SUTRA will be
. the same as this. Whether the Buddha is in the world or has
. passed into extinction, if these good men, though they have
. not yet been able to reach the stage of immobility, follow
. the Buddha’s methods of preaching and giving instruction
. when they expound the Law, then once living beings have
. heard them and single-mindedly applied themselves to
. practice, they will be able to cut off earthly desires,
. gain the doctrines, gain various stages, and gain the ways.
.
. “Good men, this is called the sixth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the seventh inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If good men or good women, while the
. Buddha is in the world or after he has passed into
. extinction, are able to hear THIS SUTRA and rejoice and put
. faith and hope in it, greeting it as something rare; if
. they accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, explain, preach,
. and practice it as it directs, conceiving a desire for
. enlightenment, cultivating good roots, nurturing minds of
. great compassion, and desiring to save all living beings
. from their sufferings, then although they have not yet been
. able to practice the six paramitas, the six paramitas will
. of themselves appear before them. In their present bodies
. they will be able to gain the truth of birthlessness, their
. earthly desires and their sufferings of birth and death
. will in one moment be cast off and destroyed, and they will
. ascend to the seventh stage of the bodhisattva.
.
. “Suppose, for example, there is a stalwart hero who wipes
. out the king’s enemies. Once these enemies have been
. destroyed, the king rejoices greatly and takes half of his
. kingdom and presents it all to the hero as a fief. The good
. men and good women who uphold THIS SUTRA will be similar to
. this. They will be the bravest and most heroic of all
. practitioners. And though they do not seek for them, the
. six paramitas, those treasures of the Law, will come to
. them naturally. Their enemies, birth and death, will of
. themselves be scattered and destroyed, and they will be
. enlightened to the truth of birthlessness, which is like
. receiving half the buddha land in fief and its treasures as
. a gift to enjoy in tranquillity.
.
. “Good men, this is called the seventh benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the eighth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, they
. will revere and put faith in it as though they were gazing
. upon the Buddha’s body, and will not let themselves treat
. it any differently. They will love and delight in THIS
. SUTRA, accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and do obeisance
. to it, putting it into practice as the Law directs,
. strictly observing the precepts, firmly persevering,
. carrying out the paramita of almsgiving, cultivating
. profound pity and compassion, and preaching this
. unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable Meanings Sutra far
. and wide for the sake of others.
.
. “If there are persons who have never believed in the
. existence of sinfulness or blessing, then they will show
. them THIS SUTRA and, employing various kinds of expedient
. means, will convert them and prevail upon them to believe.
. Through the authority and power of the sutra, such persons
. will be able to develop minds of faith, abruptly changing
. their direction. And once having developed minds of faith,
. because they proceed with courage and diligence, they will
. be able to acquire the dignity, virtue, authority, and
. power of THIS SUTRA, to gain the ways, and to gain various
. stages.
.
. “Therefore these good men and women, because of the
. benefits they gain through being converted, will in their
. present forms as men and women be able to gain the truth of
. birthlessness, to gain the upper level, and to become
. companions of the bodhisattvas. Quickly they will be able
. to lead living beings to success, to purify the buddha
. land, and before long to gain unsurpassed enlightenment.
.
. “Good men, this is called the eighth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the ninth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: If there are good men or good women
. who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, who
. leap with joy on having gained what they never had before,
. who accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and offer alms to
. it and for the sake of the multitude, observing
. distinctions, expound and preach the message of THIS SUTRA
. far and wide, then in one instant they will be able to wipe
. out the lingering guilt and heavy obstacle of their deeds
. in former existences and to attain a state of purity.
. Thereafter they will acquire great eloquence, step by step
. adorn themselves with the paramitas, acquire various
. samadhis including the shuramgama samadhi, enter the great
. gate of the dharani teachings, gain the power of diligent
. effort, and quickly attain the highest levels. They will be
. skilled at dividing their bodies and producing emanations
. of themselves, dispatching them to the lands in the ten
. directions to rescue and save all living beings in the
. twenty-five realms of existence from their dire sufferings,
. enabling them all to gain emancipation. This is because the
. sutra possesses this power.
.
. “Good men, this is called the ninth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, the tenth inconceivable benefit and power of
. THIS SUTRA is this: Suppose there are good men or good
. women who, while the Buddha is in the world or after he has
. passed into extinction, are able to obtain THIS SUTRA, and
. are filled with great joy, greeting it as something rare.
. After they themselves have accepted, upheld, read, recited,
. copied, offered alms, and put it into practice as it
. directs, they will also be able far and wide to encourage
. those in household life and those who have left such life
. to accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, offer alms, explain,
. and preach the sutra and practice it as the Law directs.
. Because they have the power to cause others to practice
. THIS SUTRA, others will gain the ways and gain various
. stages. All this will come from the fact that these good
. men and good women are moved to compassion and have the
. power to convert others diligently. As a result, these good
. men and good women in their present bodies will be able to
. gain immeasurable dharani teachings.
.
. “While they are still at the stage of ordinary persons,
. while they are just beginning, they will find themselves
. naturally capable of committing themselves to countless
. asamkhyas of broad resolutions and great vows,
. demonstrating profound determination to save all living
. beings, exercising great compassion, rescuing multitudes
. far and wide from their sufferings, gathering to themselves
. a mass of good roots, and bringing enrichment and benefit
. to all. They will expound the moisture of the Law, pouring
. it everywhere to water the dry and barren places. They will
. show themselves able to dispense the medicine of the Law to
. living beings, bringing peace and happiness to all.
. Gradually they will come forth and ascend until they reside
. at the stage of the clouds of the Law. The moisture of
. their favor will water all places; nothing will be outside
. their compassion. They will encompass all living beings who
. suffer, causing them to enter upon the buddha path. And
. because of all this, these people will before long gain
. supreme perfect enlightenment.
.
. “Good men, this is called the tenth benefit and
. inconceivable power of THIS SUTRA.
.
. “Good men, this unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable
. Meanings Sutra fully possesses great and marvelous
. supernatural powers such as these. It is worthy of
. unsurpassed veneration, for it can enable ordinary persons
. all to attain the stage of sage; leaving forever the realm
. of birth and death, they will all gain freedom. Therefore
. THIS SUTRA is called Immeasurable Meanings. It can cause
. all living beings who are still at the level of ordinary
. persons to put forth immeasurable shoots that will grow
. into the way of the bodhisattva, to plant trees of benefits
. that will flourish, put out branches, and spread. Therefore
. THIS SUTRA is dubbed the possessor of inconceivable
. benefits and power.”
.
. At that time the bodhisattva mahasattva Great Adornment and
. the others of the eighty thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva,
. speaking in a single voice addressed the Buddha, saying:
. “World-Honored One, as the Buddha has preached, this
. profound, subtle, wonderful, unsurpassed great vehicle
. Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is true and correct in word and
. principle, worthy of unsurpassed veneration. It is guarded
. and protected by all the buddhas of the three existences.
. There is no devil host, no congregation of non-Buddhist
. believers who can invade it, nor can it be destroyed by any
. erroneous views or accidents of birth and death.
.
. “Thus it is that THIS SUTRA possesses ten benefits and
. inconceivable powers such as have been described. It brings
. great enrichment and benefit to all living beings
. immeasurable in number. It causes all bodhisattvas
. mahasattva each one to gain the samadhi of immeasurable
. meanings. Or perhaps they will gain hundreds and thousands
. of dharani teachings, or they will be able to gain the
. various levels and various types of cognition of the
. bodhisattva, or they will gain the four-way and four-stage
. enlightenment of the cause-awakened one and the arhat. The
. world-honored one in his compassion and mercy has been
. pleased to preach the Law for us in this way, enabling us
. to gain the great profits of the Law. This is most
. wonderful, something never known before. The compassion and
. favor of the world-honored one is indeed difficult to repay!”
.
. When they had finished speaking these words, the major
. world system quaked and trembled in six different ways.
. From the sky there rained down various kinds of heavenly
. flowers, heavenly utpala flowers, padma flowers, kumuda
. flowers, pundarika flowers. There also rained down
. countless varieties of heavenly incense, heavenly robes,
. heavenly necklaces, and priceless heavenly jewels that came
. tumbling and turning through the air and descended as
. offerings to the Buddha and the great assembly of
. bodhisattvas and voice-hearers. Heavenly vessels from
. heavenly kitchens were heaped and overflowing with a
. hundred heavenly flavors; merely observing their forms and
. smelling their aromas was enough to make one feel
. satisfied. Heavenly streamers, heavenly banners, heavenly
. canopies, and wonderful heavenly playthings were ranged
. here and there, heavenly musical instruments played, and
. songs were sung to praise the Buddha.
.
. Then in the eastern region the buddha worlds numerous as
. Ganges sands also quaked and trembled in six different
. ways, raining down heavenly flowers, heavenly incense,
. heavenly robes, heavenly necklaces, priceless heavenly
. jewels, heavenly vessels from heavenly kitchens with a
. hundred heavenly flavors, so that observing their forms and
. smelling their aromas was enough to make one feel
. satisfied. Heavenly streamers, heavenly banners, heavenly
. canopies, and wonderful heavenly playthings were ranged
. here and there, heavenly musical instruments played, and
. songs were sung in praise of the buddhas and the great
. assemblies of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers there, and the
. same occurred in the southern, western, and northern
. regions, in the four intermediate directions, and in the
. upper and lower regions.
.
. At that time the Buddha addressed the bodhisattva
. mahasattva Great Adornment and the others of the eighty
. thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva, saying: “You should
. approach THIS SUTRA with profound feelings of respect,
. practice it as the Law directs, convert all beings far and
. wide, and propagate it with a diligent mind. At all times
. be industrious in its cause, guard it day and night, and
. enable living beings, each one of them, to enjoy the
. profits of the Law. You will then in truth be showing great
. compassion and great pity. Use the transcendental power of
. your vows to guard and protect THIS SUTRA, and do not let
. it be impeded by doubt. In the time given you, you must
. without fail cause it to spread throughout Jambudvipa,
. making certain that all living beings are able to see and
. hear it, to read, recite, copy, and offer alms to it. Then
. as a result you yourselves will be able quickly to gain
. supreme perfect enlightenment.”
.
. At that time the bodhisattva mahasattva Great Adornment and
. the others of the eighty thousand bodhisattvas mahasattva
. rose from their seats and proceeded to where the Buddha
. was. They bowed their heads to the ground in obeisance
. before the Buddha’s feet and circled around him a hundred
. thousand times. Then they advanced, knelt on one knee, and
. all blending their voices in unison, spoke to the Buddha,
. saying: “World-Honored One, we have been fortunate enough
. to receive the compassion and mercy of the world-honored
. one, who for our sake has preached this profound, subtle,
. wonderful, unsurpassed great vehicle Immeasurable Meanings
. Sutra. Respectfully we accept the Buddha’s charge. After
. the thus come one has passed into extinction, we will
. propagate THIS SUTRA far and wide, causing all beings
. everywhere to accept, uphold, read, recite, copy, and offer
. alms to it. We beg you to have no concern or fret on that
. account. We will employ the power of our vows to enable all
. living beings everywhere to see, hear, read, recite, copy,
. and offer alms to THIS SUTRA, and to gain the sutra’s
. marvelous supernatural blessings.”

In spite of the fact that I think you are wrong, I do not means this as criticism of you, Iain, remembering the immortal words of Bodhisattva Never Disparaging:

“I have profound reverence for you, I would never dare treat you with disparagement or arrogance. Why? Because you are all practicing the bodhisattva way and are certain to attain Buddhahood.”

I don't know what this has to do with a change in doctrine in the SGI, but I'm sure you will explain that.

-Chas.

___________________________________________________________

Chas. Dec 27, 2015 8:21 AM

Oh, and happy holiday! I hope you and yours are doing well.

-Chas.

___________________________________________________________

***@gmail.com Dec 28, 2015 4:21 AM
[3 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

Thanks Chas and likewise. My holiday has been filled with good people and good vibes. Truely I am blessed in this regard as I hope you are also. But the world is still a difficult place and many are not so fortunate, my enjoyment is tempered by this fact.

The change in doctrine should be obvious from the thread. I presented a like for like, side by side comparison of Mr Ikeda's lectures on the same gosho, one in 1979 the other in 2009 to support my assertion that Gohonzon had been de-emphasised and replaced by an emphasis on the mentor-disciple relationship. I did thus because you disputed my assertion. You did not address my comparison directly but made the statement to the effect that the change can be explained by learning since the SGI split with the priesthood (and so presumably legitimate). This is the change in doctrine. To stop emphasising Gohonzon and trying to develop correct faith in it as a means to enlightenment and instead emphasise the mentor-disciple relationship and develop a correct relationship with the mentor as a means to enlightenment is a fundamental change of doctrine. Such a change is not legitimate in terms of Nichiren's teaching nor in terms of SGI teaching of that earlier period. It cannot be explained away by claiming it is learning acquisition since the priesthood split. It is just wrong in terms of the two criteria I set out above.

___________________________________________________________

Chas. Dec 28, 2015 7:19 AM
Post by Chas.
Thanks Chas and likewise. [Snip]
The change in doctrine should be obvious [Snip]
You are inserting another topic again, instead of dealing with my refutation of your claim that the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra is provisional: it is not and you are wrong about that.

The Lotus Sutra is the highest teaching, both complete and final.

The accompanying sutras are concurrent with the Lotus Sutra, and the Nirvana Sutra is after the Lotus Sutra. None of those are provisional and therefore candidates for discarding.

Before means "preceding the beginning of" and not "concurrent with".

"I have profound reverence for you, I would never dare treat you with disparagement or arrogance. Why? Because you are all practicing the bodhisattva way and are certain to attain Buddhahood." - Bodhisattva Never Disparaging.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

***@gmail.com Dec 28, 2015 9:07 AM
[3 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]

I answered the point on provisional/true in the other thread and I did not 'change' topic. Read your own posts Chas, you asked about the change of doctrine, so I answered that.

You are conflating provisional with discarding. Again you make the same error. The two are not synonymous but I can see why you might do that. Again, this comes down to mixing frames.

With regard to before and after versus concurrent, it simply isn't relevant. Even if Immeasurable Meanings were preached at the same time as the great Law is expounded, it makes no difference. The key point is that it is a separate entity and in being so, it does not teach or reveal the great Law. That is why it is inferior, the timing of its preaching or whether or not it is referred in the Sutra, is if no consequence.

In so many of these exchanges, you argue like a dog refusing to let go of its bone, only to have it finally prised from your jaws with incontrovertible evidence, then you run off to the next bone to pick. When questioned on the non response to the proof, you disemble, play dumb or attempt to distract.

It's not hard Chas, just read the Gosho and chant sincerely about it. Quoting isn't the same as studying. What I can't understand is that people of my generation of SGI were taught to do that and that remained so until about mid 2000's, so how comes you weren't?

___________________________________________________________

***@gmail.com Dec 28, 2015 10:59 AM
[3 days until Iain's secret departure from the SGI.]
[And here is where Iain makes a final connection to the Mentor before departing the SGI.]

Against my better judgment, I'll throw you a bone Chas, this is probably a good place to start in the Gosho to understand the relative merits of each Sutra and the collection of Immeasurable Meanings, Lotus & Nirvana sutras.

In the first paragraph of the quote below, Nichiren makes the distinction between the three Sutras mentioned above and all other sutras.

In the second paragraph, he makes distinctions between these three sutras. Note that Nichiren is treating each sutra as a distinct entity. Note also that he reserves the highest place for the Lotus Sutra and note his reasons for doing so. So yes, Immeasurable Meanings is Ghee but no, it is not the Lotus Sutra, it is inferior to the latter and so provisional in terms of the latter. Should it be discarded? No but then again it is not necessary for the aims of the Lotus Sutra to be achieved. The Gosho quote below should also help you understand this point.

Put another way, if you were escaping a burning building and you could take one of these three Sutras with you but only one because you could not carry more than one, which would you take with you? There is only one right answer in terms of Nichiren's teachings. More importantly, why would you make that choice, because Nichiren told you too? Or because of the reason Miao-Lo gives below?


King Rinda

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/136#para-4


"[Among all the Buddhist teachings] the Āgama sutras may be compared to the flavor of milk; the Meditation and the other sutras of the Correct and Equal period may be compared to the flavor of cream; the Wisdom sutras may be compared to the flavor of curdled milk; the Flower Garland Sutra may be compared to the flavor of butter; and the Immeasurable Meanings, Lotus, and Nirvana sutras may be compared to the flavor of ghee.

Again, if the Nirvana Sutra is compared to the flavor of ghee, then the Lotus Sutra may be compared to a lord who rules over the five flavors. Thus the Great Teacher Miao-lo stated: “If we discuss the matter from the point of view of the doctrines taught, then the Lotus Sutra stands as the true lord of all the teachings, since it alone preaches ‘opening the provisional and revealing the distant.’ This is the reason that it alone is permitted the word myō, or ‘wonderful’ [in its title].”1 He also said, “Therefore, we understand that the Lotus Sutra is the true lord of the ghee.”

___________________________________________________________

Finally, Iain admits his error, without really understanding the extent of it.

He has doggedly clung to labelling the introductory Immeasurable Means sutra of the Lotus Sutra as provisional, which implies that one of the foundations of the Lotus Sutra is discardable, even arguing that you could leave it to burn.

So many things in the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, which is concurrently preached inside the Lotus Sutra, are only preached in the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, that it is difficult to even imagine what Iain considers.

One can summarize the extent of the damage done, by imagining having a tooth knocked out and continuing to smile with a gap-toothed grin. It is the hole, the missing tooth that everyone expects to see that is noticed, and not the smile.

What would happen in Chapter one of the Lotus Sutra when the Buddha starts to preach the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra and then stands there speechless for the good part of an hour? I wouldn't like to consider it.

However, even after admitting his mistake: "I'll throw you a bone Chas", Iain persists in this infamy as he leaves the SGI to start his brand new Iain Buddhism, collecting his brand new Iain Sangha, with himself as brand neww Iain Sensei, closely studying the accreted phrases of his brand new Hurvitz translation of the Lotus Sutra. All brand new!

-Chas.
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 04:37:46 UTC
Permalink
"What follows are exchanges on the same topic of Mentor and Disciple in the previous month of December 2015 as Iain was secretly planning to leave the SGI and start a new Buddhism with a new Sangha on January 1st, but still hiding behind the false cloak of SGI membership: to freely denounce Sensei and the SGI from the inside, with impunity."

On no they're not Chas because the plots and reason is one your SGI media management team made up. And Julian is no mere independent spectator but someone who has been here for as ling as you and is the only one not to criticise any of your posts.

Be well :)
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-25 00:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Hi lain nice to meet you here in another Nichiren Buddhist War zone with its oasis of integral truths here and there that remind us of the common ground that we all share like your quote from the Sutra,aptly Medicinal Herbs...

I copied and pasted from Eagle Peack blog where I've been conversing with Mark Rogow, Katie Higgins, Greg Romero and even Mud Pie Boi (that I have just found out to be you) over this issue. I was retaliating towards them not you, sorry if I've offended you I should be more careful in how I redirect my posts. I edited some of them so they would appear less confronting to those that aren't already pissed offl with me for presenting information and for sharing opinions that are not aligned with theirs as what is happening between you and Chas.

Whatever we say can create friends or enemies, today's friend is tomorrows enemy and vice a versa. This is why i like Nichiren Buddhism because it freely admits that we are the oneness of enlightenment and delusion and with that in mind we should go easy on each other as we all have the same condition however some are more deluded or enlightened than others and this is what is on trial here

These links are from the conversations on this topic that's opened a can of worms. I leave this to ARBN participants to discern for themselves what is being said

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/dropping-chracter-mu.html

http://markrogow.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/it-is-more-important-to-tell-potential.html

"Please look carefully at my reply to Alex. Please look carefully at it's reasoning. If you can tell me that Nichirem sometimes wrote Nam and that Japanese people have the same debate because sometimes he wrote Nam and other times Namu, on some Gohonzon it is written Nam on others Namu, then that is an end of the matter, I am wrong."

Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

There is no Nammerscammer going on here but only the desire to uncover the truth of the matter

The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na is derived from NAN/minami (south) and the character 無 MU has multiple pronunciations MU,BU,nai/shi that mean NOT,NONE,CEASE TO BE (nothing) are used to express devotion

The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit Namas that means to dedicate one's life

Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo of the Gohonzon is only written in Chinese characters have many different ways of pronunciation there is no one specific way to pronounce Chinese symbols

I am personally more interested in what it is to what we are devoted to rather the pronunciation of the word that we use to express devotion of the Law of NMLK but since it keeps being brought to my attention I share my understanding from a different perspective that may not have come up before which is all about promoting healthy debate


If we understand, tried to understand, or become one with the Law, would it matter if we say Nam or Namu Myoho Lenge Kyo , Dropping or not dropping the pronunciation of the character Mu or even use both like the NST or SGI do..

Would this stop the eternal Buddha's work in our lives...come on lets get real and not create a fools paradise here even though we may have good intentions like the path that leads to Hell

Myoho Lenge is the essence if we truly understand this all else is quite trivial...yes!!!

Its all about the sincerity of heart that really counts. How could one be denied access to the Law if they didn't add Mu or drop it. I believe that the Law is bigger than that but if it wasn't I would have nothing to do with if it was as trivial as that

Why doesn't everyone focus on saying Lenge instead of Renge for a change and give Us a break as I've already provided documentary proof that Renge is just not right but I'm sure the Law understands and because of its infinite compassion she'll be right

http://youtu.be/MCyKKhOrOqE

Listen to this Nichiren Shu priest how to correctly pronounce the Japanese reading of the Chinese (Kanji) characters - Shindoku reading

He explains the correct pronunciation of Re is Le ( at 3 min) and how American's accuse Priests of saying Renge incorrectly what a bunch of Arrogant Booofheaded Bastards some American's are with have such massive egos about being right that they are incapable of listening to reason even when its right in their face such is the sad state of affairs of this world
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-28 01:46:25 UTC
Permalink
You are nothing more than a nam bashing namooist nambasher lain brain. I had some respect for you under your humble name mudpie at eagle peack blog and now that i have seen your true colours here at nrbn i can see how devious you are
k***@gmail.com
2016-09-28 04:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Iain thanks. Ive also posted something on the dai gohonzon thread...whichnis about to be buried.

When you have time have a look

Have a great day
Chas.
2016-09-28 05:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Katie Higgin's Errors +

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/xJD6LNGes-E/T7xhQ2DbAAAJ

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 5:07:50 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

[snip]

||| How do I display my own adoring reverence for Shakyamuni ?
||| I have a small statue of Shakyamuni on the altar table
||| beneath my Gohonzon. I bow in reverence to it and chant
||| daimoku three times.
|||

[snip]

Instead of focusing on your fuzzy distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, let's focus on these clear and indisputable mistakes.

1. In spite of the fact that one might have the "supreme object of devotion throughout Jambudvipa", the Gohonzon of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism enshrined in one's altar, one has decided (horribly) to augment that with the lesser acretion of a statue of Shakyamuni, who is a provisional Buddha and a function of the true and eternal Buddha.

This fact itself is demonstrated on the Gohonzon, and in the ceremony in the air in the one chapter and two halves of the Lotus Sutra.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/O/16

Shakyamuni is on the left and Many Treasures (Taho) on the right seated in the Treasure Tower, whereas in the assembly centrally located and predominant over all is the devoted name of the eternal Buddha: NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO. The name of the eternal Buddha who presides over the domain of Jambudvipa (our reality) is in fact Myoho-Renge and not Shakyamuni: and that is true in three ways (santai), across all nonsubstantiality, temporary existence and the middle way. This could not have been made more clear by the inscription of the Gohonzon.

Shakyamuni and Many Treasures occupy the same seat in the Treasure Tower that arises when Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is invoked and the ceremony in the air is recapitulated. That is manifesting Buddhahood, which is eternally inherent in all Buddhas (in all common mortals, in all living beings.) Shakyamuni and Many Treasures are provisional Buddhas and functions of the eternal Buddha, which is yourself and myself and all other selves across the ten directions and the three existences.

Otherwise one would be chanting Shakyamuni's name and not Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. And then one's practice could not possibly work to make their life happier, even if it is true that one completely undermines the effects of chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo with their abundant slanders, which you do and that is why you appear to be an extremely unhappy person, Katie. You merely have to empirically examine your "rhetoric", filled with ad hominem fallacious reasoning to adduce that, it's not rocket science.

"Ad hominem" meaning slurs directed at others, who are common mortals and the true Buddha, as opposed to the erroneous thoughts, words and deeds that they outflow.

2. Because of the logic of number 1 above, one should have discarded all other objects of devotion, which are lesser. This is because one's true nature actually DOES NOTICE that one is worshiping a lesser object of devotion than the supreme object of devotion, the Gohonzon: and then one has undermined their life condition, which WILL ABSOLUTELY DISALLOW ONE FROM MANIFESTING THEIR BUDDHAHOOD.

3. Then there is the practice of ignoring the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin that contradict one's slanderous practice: this creates one's own private version of the Gosho Zenshu (missing the contravening Gosho letters and the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, which are hated by you all.) Creating this "personal and private" version of Nichiren Daishonin's writings is an example of what Nichiren Daishonin calls "appropriating" and "plagiarizing."
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-18

One hates these offending Gosho passages and those Gosho SO MUCH, that one cannot even open the book to those pages, and then one fabricates stories and reasons to discredit those hated Gosho passages and Goshos, and finally to complete this act of treason, one drops them from their appropriated and plagiarized version of the Gosho (if one is Nichiren Shu.)

4. Numbers 1 and 2 above are the reason why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)

From the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-6

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.

All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means: without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.

This also, BTW, explains that passage with all of the negations from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

... his body neither existing nor not existing,
... neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
... neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
... neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
... neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
... neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
... neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
... neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
... neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
... neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
... neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
... neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color

This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.

A second time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-7

... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...

Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.

A third time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-7

... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...

Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit "an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."

However, there is hope even for them, because:

'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'

Finally, a fourth time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 385:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-9

... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

One more time I will offer up the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra passage explaining the true aspect, which is why Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the daimoku and why the Gohonzon is the supreme object of worship and not pictures or statues of dogs, cats, elephants, people, Shakyamuni, Nichiren Daishonin, or any Hindu combinations thereof.

Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, Chapter 2, "Preaching the Law", Lotus Sutra pp.12-13:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/2#para-5

... The Buddha said: “Good men, this single doctrine is called
... the doctrine of immeasurable meanings. If bodhisattvas wish
... to practice and study these immeasurable meanings, then
... they should observe and perceive how ALL PHENOMENA, FROM
... THE BEGINNING DOWN TO THE PRESENT, ARE IN NATURE AND ASPECT
... EMPTY AND TRANQUIL, WITHOUT BIGNESS OR LITTLENESS, WITHOUT
... BIRTH OR EXTINCTION, NOT ABIDING, NOT MOVING, NEITHER
... ADVANCING NOR RETREATING, BUT LIKE VACANT SPACE, WITHOUT
... ANY DUALISM.
...
... “But living beings in their VAIN DELUSIONS MAKE WILD
... CALCULATIONS, SAYING, THIS IS ONE THING, THAT IS ANOTHER,
... THIS BRINGS GAIN, THAT BRINGS LOSS, AND GIVE RISE TO
... THOUGHTS THAT ARE NOT GOOD, CARRYING OUT EVIL ACTS,
... transmigrating through the six paths of existence and
... undergoing sufferings and bitterness for immeasurable
... millions of kalpas without ever being able to escape.
...
... “Bodhisattvas mahasattva, clearly perceiving that this is
... so, are moved to pity in their minds, and inspired by great
... compassion, wish to rescue these beings from their plight.
... THEY SHOULD THEN ONCE MORE ENTER DEEPLY INTO THE STUDY OF
... ALL PHENOMENA. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN
... SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL BE BORN. IF THE ASPECTS OF
... PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL
... ABIDE. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN
... SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL CHANGE. IF THE ASPECTS OF
... PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL
... UNDERGO EXTINCTION. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH,
... THIS CAN LEAD TO THE BIRTH OF BAD PHENOMENA. IF THE ASPECTS
... OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THIS CAN LEAD TO THE BIRTH OF GOOD
... PHENOMENA. AND THE SAME APPLIES IN THE CASE OF THE ABIDING,
... CHANGING, AND EXTINCTION OF PHENOMENA.
...
... “When bodhisattvas have in this manner OBSERVED THE
... BEGINNING AND END OF THESE FOUR ASPECTS AND HAVE UNDERSTOOD
... THEM IN THEIR ENTIRETY, THEN THEY WILL CLEARLY PERCEIVE
... THAT ALL PHENOMENA, NEVER ABIDING FROM ONE INSTANT TO
... THE NEXT, ARE CONSTANTLY BEING BORN ANEW AND PASSING INTO
... EXTINCTION, AND THEN THEY WILL IMMEDIATELY PERCEIVE THE
... TRUE ASPECT OF BIRTH, ABIDING, CHANGE, AND EXTINCTION.
...
... “Once they have gained this perception, then they must turn
... to the capacities, natures, and desires of living beings.
... Because such natures and desires are immeasurable in
... variety, the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable;
... and because the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable,
... its meanings are likewise immeasurable. THESE IMMEASURABLE
... MEANINGS ARE BORN FROM A SINGLE LAW, AND THIS LAW IS
... WITHOUT ASPECT. WHAT IS WITHOUT ASPECT IS DEVOID OF ASPECT
... AND DOES NOT TAKE ON ASPECT. NOT TAKING ON ASPECT, BEING
... WITHOUT ASPECT, IT IS CALLED THE TRUE ASPECT.
...
... “When bodhisattvas mahasattva rest and abide in this
... understanding of the true aspect of all phenomena, then the
... pity and compassion that they put forth will be based on
... clear understanding and not groundless, and they will be
... truly capable of rescuing living beings from the sufferings
... that they undergo. And once they have rescued them from
... suffering, they will preach the Law for them and enable
... living beings to enjoy ease and delight.

So, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo really does not sound like anything else and the Gohonzon really does look like anything else, not like a picture or a statue of Shakyamuni.

It reflects the inner glory of a common mortal, who is the true Buddha.

-Chas.
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-28 17:30:51 UTC
Permalink
"Iain thanks. Ive also posted something on the dai gohonzon thread...whichnis about to be buried.

When you have time have a look

Have a great day"

Thabks Kahlie. I've answered you there. I did have a great day thanks, I hope you did too :) And continue too!

Be well :)
Katie Higgins
2016-09-28 21:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Showing off a few of your enlightened mind qualities here on ARBN, Noel?

I was wondering what you actually did sitting up in your treasure tower -- now I know 😬

Thanks for providing more references -/ helps readers decide matters of credibility --

~Katie
Katie Higgins
2016-09-29 00:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Showing off a few of your enlightened mind qualities here on ARBN, Noel?
I was wondering what you actually did sitting up in your treasure tower -- now I know 😬
Thanks for providing more references -/ helps readers decide matters of credibility --
~Katie
In response to "Noel"
Post by Katie Higgins
"You are nothing more than a nam bashing namooist nambasher lain brain. I had some respect for you under your humble name mudpie at eagle peack blog and now that i have seen your true colours here at nrbn i can see how devious you are"<<
@lyal-- why not post under your real name? You aren't going to be able to hide from the effects of the causes you are making-- from anger and animality. But you will contend this is your *enlightenement" talking ??

Right?

No, not right-- that you could insult iainx this way after all of the respect and thoughtfulness he has shown you? Who are you going to blame for how obvious your *hatred and jealousy* have become?

~Katie
Chas.
2016-09-29 03:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Notice how Katie and Iain fawn all over people entering the forum, until they say they chant Nam instead of Namu, or disagree about which Goshos are fake and real, or whether chanting to statues and pagodas is good or not.

... After that, the formerly-fawned-upon become the target of ever-increasing criticism of their every word, they will twist everything you say into something horrible and take their twisted quote and trot it out in front of you like "nyah, nyah, nyah". After that it is open abuse on every turn.

And then always ending with an incredibly fake "Be well :)" Which rhymes with "Go to Hell." and really means go off somewhere and die and never come back into "Our Forum" with "Our Index", set up for "Our Kind of People ... you, not YOU, you, NOT YOU OR YOU!"

Eventually this forum will become too small potatoes for their new Iain sect, and they will move on to a website, or rent out an old chicken coop and set up shop to bilk the unwary and send them packing to Avichi Hell.

Kind of like EST that became the Landmark Forum, or Scientology, with greater expanding and more expensive courses of special Iain sutras for the greater paying believers and finally personal Iain sutras signed by his Holiainess in a moment of bliss.

And then comes the personal audience with himself. Something to really aspire to in one's life.

As opposed to the boring old mentor and disciple SGI, where everyone gets everything that Sensei and the SGI study and publications department write, and where everything Nichiren Daishonin wrote and the Lotus Sutra are online.
________________________________

Iain's questions regarding 'who is the eternal Buddha', answered here +

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 10:46:59 PM UTC-7, ***@gmail.com wrote:
||| ... "Here's a question for you, Katie Higgins. Is the
||| ... Lotus Sutra also faked?
||| ...
||| ... If Shakyamuni is the eternal Buddha, then how can
||| ... he be the sixteenth son of the father Great
||| ... Universal Wisdom Excellence from who he became
||| ... enlightened, who became enlightened from the
||| ... nameless grandfather (who is the eternal Buddha we
||| ... call Myoho-Renge of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.)"
|||
||| 1) "who is the eternal Buddha we call Myoho-Renge of
||| Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"
|||
||| A) For readers convenience can you cite and reference the
||| Gosho quotes where Nichiren defines Myoho Renge as the
||| Eternal Buddha.
|||

Under the presumption that on your slide down into the Nichiren Shu statue worshiping, that you have not yet declared the Gosho, "The Entity of the Mystic Law" to be a fake, then for WND I, p. 417-418:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47

... Question: What is the entity of Myoho-renge-kyo?
...
... Answer: All beings and their environments in any of the Ten
... Worlds are themselves entities of Myoho-renge-kyo.
...
... Question: If so, then is it possible to say that all living
... beings, such as ourselves, are entities of the Mystic Law
... in its entirety?
...
... Answer: Of course. The sutra says, “This reality [the true
... aspect of all phenomena] consists of the appearance, nature
... ... and their consistency from beginning to end.”
...
... The Great Teacher Miao-lo comments on this as follows: “The
... true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena, and all
... phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten
... factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds, and the Ten
... Worlds invariably manifest in life and its environment.”
...
... T’ien-t’ai commented, “All phenomena consisting of the ten
... factors, Ten Worlds, and three thousand realms are entities
... of the Lotus Sutra.”
...
... The Great Teacher Nan-yüeh says, “Question: What does
... Myoho-renge-kyo represent? Answer: Myō indicates that all
... living beings are myō, or mystic. Hō indicates that all
... living beings are hō, or the Law.” T’ien-t’ai also says,
... “The Law of all living beings is mystic.”
...
... Question: If the entity of all living beings is the Mystic
... Law in its entirety, then are all the actions and their
... results that are associated with the nine worlds, from the
... world of hell up to that of bodhisattvas, in effect
... entities of the Mystic Law?
...
... Answer: The mystic principle that is the essential nature
... of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and
... the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this
... is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this
... is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the
... realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of
... ordinary mortals.
...
... These two aspects, the deluded and the enlightened, are
... indeed two different phenomena, and yet both are workings
... of the one principle, that is, the essential nature of
... phenomena, or the true aspect of reality. It is like a
... piece of crystal. If the crystal is placed in the sun’s
... rays, it will attract them and produce fire. But if it is
... placed in the moon’s rays, it will produce water. The
... crystal is a single entity, but the effects it produces
... differ according to the circumstances.
...
... The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is like
... this. The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is
... one, but if it encounters evil influences, it will manifest
... delusion, while if it encounters good influences, it
... will manifest enlightenment. Enlightenment means
... enlightenment to the essential nature of phenomena, and
... delusion, ignorance of it.
...
... It is like the case of a person who in a dream sees himself
... performing various good and evil actions. After he wakes up
... and considers the matter, he realizes that it was all a
... dream produced by his own mind. This mind of his
... corresponds to the single principle of the essential nature
... of phenomena, the true aspect of reality, while the good
... and evil that appeared in the dream correspond to
... enlightenment and delusion. When one becomes aware of this,
... it is clear that one should discard the ignorance
... associated with evil and delusion, and take as one’s basis
... the awakening that is characterized by goodness and
... enlightenment.

Myoho is the Mystic Law part, Renge the Entity part and the Sutra is the teaching about their interwoven two, but not two, fusion. Anytime Nichiren Daishonin says in English "Entity(ies) of the Mystic Law", that is Myoho-Renge in Japanese/Chinese.

"... all living beings, such as ourselves, are entities of the Mystic Law in its entirety? Answer: Of course."

That states it from Nichiren Daishonin, then from Miao-lo, then from T'ien-t’ai.

Then Nan-yüeh says it and T'ien-t’ai again: '“Question: What does Myoho-renge-kyo represent? Answer: Myō indicates that all living beings are myō, or mystic. Hō indicates that all living beings are hō, or the Law.” T’ien-t’ai also says, “The Law of all living beings is mystic.”'

The Buddhas in the ten directions are the world of living beings.

Here Nichiren Daishonin directly names Myoho-Renge as the Entity of the Mystic Law, who is the true Buddha and a common mortal:

From "The Entity of the Mystic Law", WND I, p. 423:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-46

... Question: If so, then what passage contains a full
... elucidation of the entity?
...
... Answer: The passage in the “Expedient Means” chapter that
... deals with the true aspect of all phenomena.
...
... Question: How do we know that this passage deals with the
... lotus that is the entity?
...
... Answer: Because T’ien-t’ai and Miao-lo quote this passage
... when they explain the essence of the Lotus Sutra. And the
... Great Teacher Dengyō in his commentary also writes,
... “QUESTION: WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF THE LOTUS SUTRA? ANSWER:
... ITS ESSENCE IS THE TRUE ASPECT OF ALL PHENOMENA.” THIS
... PASSAGE OF COMMENTARY CLARIFIES THE MATTER. (SCHOLARS OF
... THE TIME KEPT THIS COMMENTARY SECRET AND DID NOT REVEAL THE
... NAME OF THE ENTITY, BUT THE PASSAGE IS CLEARLY REFERRING TO
... MYOHO-RENGE.)
...
... Furthermore, actual evidence of the entity is to be found
... in the examples of the three kinds of Buddhas described in
... the “Treasure Tower” chapter, the bodhisattvas who appeared
... from the earth, and the dragon king’s daughter who attained
... Buddhahood in her present form. The Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth offer actual evidence because, as a passage of the
... Lotus Sutra says, “[They are unsoiled by worldly things]
... like the lotus flower in the water.” Thus we learn of the
... true entity of these bodhisattvas. And the dragon king’s
... daughter offers actual evidence because she made her
... appearance at the gathering at Eagle Peak, “seated on a
... thousand-petaled lotus blossom big as a carriage wheel.”
...
... Moreover, the thirty-four manifestations of Bodhisattva
... Wonderful Sound and the thirty-three manifestations of
... Bodhisattva Perceiver of the World’s Sounds constitute
... further evidence. For, as the commentary says, “If he had
... not gained the mysterious power of perfect freedom of
... action through the meditation based on the Lotus Sutra,
... then how could he manifest these thirty-three different
... forms?”
...
... In addition, there is the sutra passage that states, “...
... the characteristics of the world are constantly abiding.”
... All these passages are documentary proofs cited by the
... scholars of our time. Personally, however, I prefer to cite
... the passage in the “Expedient Means” chapter on the true
... aspect of all phenomena and the passage in the
... “Supernatural Powers” chapter that refers to “all the
... doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One.” This last
... passage is also cited by the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in
... his commentary explaining the five major principles of the
... Lotus Sutra. Therefore, I feel that this passage in
... particular can be cited as certain proof of the entity of
... the Mystic Law.

Of course this is confirmed in the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings as well.

||| B) And provide the Gosho quotes where Nichiren defines the
||| Eternal Buddha of the 16th Chapter as anyone other than Shakyamuni.
|||

Gosho Zenshu - Ongi Kuden quote I already showed you, "Parable of the Phantom City", Point Four:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15

... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: In
... this passage we learn about the Buddha of the original
... state [that is, the Buddha of limitless joy]. “Grandfather”
... is another name for the Dharma-realm. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the “Expedient Means” chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as “grandfather.” Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.

||| C) Nichiren disparaged and refuted schools that taught believers to
||| follow other buddha's as a means for salvation, stating
||| that Shakayamuni alone had actual connection with this world.
|||
||| Please cite the Goshos where Nichiren teaches otherwise.
|||

From the "The True Aspect of All Phenomena", WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-4

... Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures,
... are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is
... Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha. This is what is
... described in the sutra as “the Thus Come One’s secret and
... his transcendental powers.” The “Thus Come One’s secret”
... refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and it
... refers to the true Buddha. “His transcendental powers”
... refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers
... to provisional Buddhas. A common mortal is an entity of the
... three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of
... the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case,
... though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the
... three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
... sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. On the
... contrary, it is common mortals who endow him with the three
... virtues.

The common mortal is the true Buddha, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures are provisional Buddhas and functions of the true Buddha, such as yourself, Katie Higgins and Mark Rogow, who deny your inheritance of the three bodies of the Buddha from your dear parents, bless their unfortunate hearts for being bound to your collective perfidious thoughts, words and deeds.

||| 2)
|||
||| To conflate the temporal with the timeless is a mistake but hey ho. Here are the quotes for you in return, "is the Sutra also faked?"
|||
||| (Question 3 is at the end of this post)
|||
||| http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/16
|||
||| "Life Span of the Thus Come One
|||
||| CHAPTER 16
|||
||| At that time the Buddha spoke to the bodhisattvas and all
||| the great assembly: “Good men, you must believe and
||| understand the truthful words of the thus come one.” And
||| again he said to the great assembly: “You must believe and
||| understand the truthful words of the thus come one.” And
||| once more he said to the great assembly: “You must believe
||| and understand the truthful words of thethus come one.”
|||
||| Note the statement:
|||
||| "You must believe and understand the truthful words of
||| the thus come one.”
|||
||| The Sutra continues:
|||
||| (Ibid)
|||
||| "At that time the bodhisattvas and the great assembly,
||| with Maitreya as their leader, pressed their palms together
||| and addressed the Buddha, saying: “World-Honored One, we
||| beg you to explain. We will believe and accept the Buddha’s
||| words.”
|||
||| So the Sutra is clear who is speaking, no? It continues:
|||

Ah, finally, a question.

Maitreya is asking the provisional Buddha Shakyamuni, who is a function of the true Buddha, for an explanation.

Shakyamuni has the function here of preaching the Lotus Sutra, or as Nichiren Daishonin refers to him: the Lord of Teachings.

||| (Ibid)
|||
||| "At that time the world-honored one, seeing that the
||| bodhisattvas repeated their request three times and more,
||| spoke to them, saying: “You must listen carefully and hear
||| of the thus come one’s secret and his transcendental
||| powers. In all the worlds the heavenly and human beings and
||| asuras all believe that the present Shakyamuni Buddha,
||| after leaving the palace of the Shakyas, seated himself in
||| the place of enlightenment not far from the city of Gaya
||| and there attained supreme perfect enlightenment. But good
||| men, it has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds,
||| thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas
||| since I in fact attained buddhahood."
|||
||| Shakyamuni then goes on to say (you chant this verse
||| section Chas at least twice a day uf you are doing Gongyo
||| regularly! How could you not understand it?)
|||

The translation into English is at the back of the Gosho book.

Understanding of the true meaning that translation is purchased at the price of faith in the Lotus Sutra itself.

Get some of that, Iain.

||| (Ibid)
|||
||| "In order to save living beings,
||| as an expedient means I appear to enter nirvana
||| but in truth I do not pass into extinction.
||| I am always here, preaching the Law.
||| I am always here,
||| but through my transcendental powers
||| I make it so that living beings in their befuddlement
||| do not see me even when close by.
||| When the multitude sees that I have passed into extinction,
||| far and wide they offer alms to my relics.
||| All harbor thoughts of yearning
||| and in their minds thirst to gaze at me.
||| When living beings have become truly faithful,
||| honest and upright, gentle in intent,
||| single-mindedly desiring to see theBuddha,
||| not hesitating even if it costs them their lives,
||| then I and the assembly of monks
||| appear together on Holy Eagle Peak."
|||
||| 3) Are you refuting the 16th Chapter by asserting that
||| Shakyamuni, who preached it is a liar?
|||

I repeat those words daily.

I am also not a liar.

However, the eternal Buddha's name is Myoho-Renge, not Chas. and not Shakyamuni.

The name Myoho-Renge is free of all aspect of impermanent Chas. or impermanent Shakyamuni, it possesses the true aspect manifesting non-substantiality, impermanence and the middle way simultaneously: the three truths (Santai) of the Lotus Sutra.

Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha and a function of the true Buddha, so the words remain eternal truth as they exit his mouth.

I am a "common mortal is the true Buddha" (from the True Aspect of All Phenomena), so the words remain eternal truth as they exit my mouth.

-Chas.
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-29 10:29:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Lain the Nam bashing Namooer,this is what you have become. You remind me of a Cock scratching around in the hen house flapping its wings going Namoo Nammoo Moo. I read how Richard sincerely chanted Nam myoho renge kyo from his heart for his dying wife who had cancer and for his daughter who also had a big problem and how they recovered

I feel incensed with anger towards people like you and Horrible Hatie Higgins (HHH) that can poke fun at others like Richard that sincerely chant to help others by turning the Daimoku that they are using into a crime for not saying U

How anyone can deride another for saying Nam beggars belief and means that they have some serious issues in their lives to deal with. Nichiren would be shaking his head in disbelief at such trivial nonsense by those that claim that they are votaries of the Lotus Sutra

How you mock those for not using U during a smooth flowing 6 beat chant is enough to put anyone off saying U for even the slow 7 beat daimoku. Well done Lain

A Namooer or Nambasher is one who derides another for saying Nam

Those who say Namu during a 6 or 7 beat chant and that don't deride those that say Nam are doing well not to criticize
l***@gmail.com
2016-09-29 10:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo
Myoho Renge Kyo is "The Sutra of The White Lotus Blossing of the Wonderful Dharma (Law). Or simply The Lotus Sutra.
Namu is the act of reverent embrace - "I devote my life to", "I devote myself to" - it is the great vow.
Faith is the engine of Namu, powering that embrace of Myoho Renge-kyo. As much as faith as can be mustered at any one time. That's sincerity - doing your best.
Sincerity builds faith, faith powers Namu, Namu embraces Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo brings forth enlightenment - The Buddha teaches us, from within our lives, we change well, which increases sincerity and builds faith. So we do it all again.
"No other knoweldge is purposeful" - that's so true, so simple. As another sage said "keeping to the road is simple but people love to be distracted" also so true, we do.
And when we do, we lose our faith that Myoho Renge-kyo is just me and you, always near at hand and easily grasped by by the handle of faith provided by "Namu".
And when we do, we turn to the mentor who says "I'll Nam for you...I'm a much better Nammer that you...look what I did with my powerful Nam...built this big shiny thing...my Nam got people to give me money and sing my praises,...though they did all the work, I got them work their butts off for free and yet still credit me...I built my corp just like Steve, Mark, Bill and Eric (paying much less in wages)...all billionaires - just like me - sure I'll Nam for you, if you "choose" to call me mentor and give your life to me! Isn't that such a small price to pay for the services of an expert Nammer like me, me, me?".
"But what about the oo?" you say...
(Laughs patronisingly) "Don't be silly child...U?...U don't matter to an expert, accomplished Nammer like me, me, me. Take it from me, it's Nam and U don't count, U is insignificant, I dropped U long ago. In fact it's so trifling, I didn't bother with U, I've never bothered with U, it's all me, me, me for an expert Nammer like me, me, me. Trust me, it's all in my mag you can subscribe and read all about the expert Nammer that's me, me, me. Or perhaps you'd prefer a book? More expensive but it will tell you much more about me, me, me and my skill as a Nammer and you can become a true devotee, a wannabee, me, me, me..."
But remember, another can never do it for you, nor me, her, her, him and certainly not a Nammer like him. We can only do it for ourselves, the U really does count.
U is in "you", it's also in "Us" and itcs certainly in "The Buddha", which is part of you, me and us. It matters a lot yet it's missing in mentor and in disciples you see. Itcs missing because they DON'T matter. Namu is all you need.
Namu powered by the engine of faith, to fully grasp the wonderful, the sublime Myoho Renge-kyo, that's what matters.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo - which is her, him, you, me, them and they and us.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part.
Leave the Nammer scammers to their failing fortunes, leave them scrabbling with their fast talk far behind - embrace the U and accrue the results that nautrally become due.
Return to U don't let the Nammer scammers come between you and U.
Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
Be excellent, be happy, be resillient, be blessed, be caring, be kind - just be well 😀
And the Nammer scammers? They'll eventually catch on, stop scrabbling and catch up. They'll join U and Us, in the single mind of faith - Namu - Myoho Renge-kyo.
Lain the Nam bashing Namooer,this is what you have become. You remind me of a Cock scratching around strutting his stuff in the hen house flapping its wings going Namoo Namoo Namoooo. I read how Richard sincerely chanted Nam myoho renge kyo from his heart for his dying wife who had cancer and for his daughter who also had a big problem and how they recovered

I feel incensed with anger towards people like you and Horrible Hatie Higgins (HHH) that can poke fun at others like Richard that sincerely chant to help others by turning the Daimoku that they are using into a crime for not saying U

How anyone can deride another for saying Nam beggars belief and means that they have some serious issues in their lives to deal with. Nichiren would be shaking his head in disbelief at such trivial nonsense by those that claim that they are votaries of the Lotus Sutra

How you mock those for not using U during a smooth flowing 6 beat chant is enough to put anyone off saying U for even the slow 7 beat daimoku. Well done Lain

A Namooer or Nambasher is one who derides another for saying Nam

Those who say Namu during a 6 or 7 beat chant and that don't deride those that say Nam are doing well not to criticize
Katie Higgins
2016-09-29 11:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Now Chas lectures on yet another " ignore what Nichiren wrote" and follow "my" [Chas] / easy method of practicing 🙀 SGI pseudo Buddhism .

No fawning noted by followers of Nichiren / the nasty comments come from you and your "Boy Band" -- and your enlightened superiority medley !

~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-29 18:26:57 UTC
Permalink
***@gmail.com

Ah so we see now your true colours Noel. Let's just stop and back up a bit shall we?

Firstly, Richard says a lot of things in his posts. He orginially came here, praising my posts for revealling the hollowness of mentor disciple and telling the world how SGI leaders quaked with fear amd blaming SGI for breaking up with his wife. He told me I was naive when I kept amd open mind about Daisaku Ikeda, whilst elsewhere still quote clearly holding his allegiance to SGI and his mentor.

In other words sttaight off he was being deceitful and duplicitous.

To my knowledge he has never posted over on ARBN and yet he said he had respect for me there. That's odd that he would never post there but had read my comments there. Can we bieve that Richard would read but not comment? He's spread across the internet in many religious forums. I can't so who is he there then? Noel?

There are several possibilities.

1) you are not Noel.
2) both Noel amd Richard are you
3) there are two different identities beginning with ***@gmail.com being used in here, one fake to imitate the other genuine.


Determining 1 & 3 is easy. I will ask Noel directly on ARBN to review this thread and post his reply here.

From the answer to 1 & 3 we have the answer to 2 and have solved the riddle of Space Treasury too.

You know me, forensic in my analysis. You've given me another comparison to do and you know how much I enjoy that. Noel's ppsting pattern and themes, Dickies, Space Treasury. The pattern of language used. And their timing.

Thanks for the head's up, I'm surd the rest of the forum is grateful fir the insight you have given it into SGI methods too.

Be well :)
JazzIs TvRicky
2016-09-29 19:15:59 UTC
Permalink
The POISON has Penetrated DEEPLY Lainx. Your paranoid and revealing insanity has you imagining our beliefs as only being held by one or two persons how shallow....

I am and always have been Richard H Brown. Noel is Noel and you are whatever Katie The Devils Maiden tells her LITTLE GIRL to be...ummmm A Nichiren Gohonzon Burner and teller of lies. What a faithless coward you are! I say this to arouse introspection and doubt! You my friend are blinded by your own deep arrogance and your obsession with Ikeda. Why?

Sincerely
Katie Higgins
2016-09-30 09:06:08 UTC
Permalink
Getting sloppy Richard / I " cremated " the Nichikan no- Honzon - doubt you have seen a NICHIREN Gohonzon up close and personal .

Oh / no one ever said just what SGI did with
All the Nikken no/ honzons they snatched up / I turned mine in and could not get an answer on how SGI disposed of those -/ I think the animosity SGI still expresses for NIKKEN Bears notice -- and since you are outraged about
Non- Nichiren Gohonzon disposal you really should relaunch your shock and horror campaign in the right direction -- especially since you are NOT SGI , as you claim .

Or maybe you aren't expressing your values or principles about no- Honzon disposal - just trying to ramp up your attack on a sincere follower of Nichiren ??
~Katie
PS - why not ask Noel what he did with his NICHIKAN OR NIKKEN Gohonzon - he has an authentic NICHIREN GOHONZON enshrined in his home --

~Katie
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-30 11:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Getting sloppy Richard / I " cremated " the Nichikan no- Honzon - doubt you have seen a NICHIREN Gohonzon up close and personal .
Oh / no one ever said just what SGI did with
All the Nikken no/ honzons they snatched up / I turned mine in and could not get an answer on how SGI disposed of those -/ I think the animosity SGI still expresses for NIKKEN Bears notice -- and since you are outraged about
Non- Nichiren Gohonzon disposal you really should relaunch your shock and horror campaign in the right direction -- especially since you are NOT SGI , as you claim .
Or maybe you aren't expressing your values or principles about no- Honzon disposal - just trying to ramp up your attack on a sincere follower of Nichiren ??
~Katie
PS - why not ask Noel what he did with his NICHIKAN OR NIKKEN Gohonzon - he has an authentic NICHIREN GOHONZON enshrined in his home --
~Katie
Tiebreaker for Katie : Why did you turned your Nikken Transcription of
the Gohonzon in to SGI???? Did you turn back on your "Gojukaï"
commitments. How , you, Katie, could have been responsive to all the SGI
crap on this matter.
This is very disappointing!!
I am very disappointed.
Best Regrds
@lex
Katie Higgins
2016-09-30 15:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Getting sloppy Richard / I " cremated " the Nichikan no- Honzon - doubt you have seen a NICHIREN Gohonzon up close and personal .
Oh / no one ever said just what SGI did with
All the Nikken no/ honzons they snatched up / I turned mine in and could not get an answer on how SGI disposed of those -/ I think the animosity SGI still expresses for NIKKEN Bears notice -- and since you are outraged about
Non- Nichiren Gohonzon disposal you really should relaunch your shock and horror campaign in the right direction -- especially since you are NOT SGI , as you claim .
Or maybe you aren't expressing your values or principles about no- Honzon disposal - just trying to ramp up your attack on a sincere follower of Nichiren ??
~Katie
PS - why not ask Noel what he did with his NICHIKAN OR NIKKEN Gohonzon - he has an authentic NICHIREN GOHONZON enshrined in his home --
~Katie
Tiebreaker for Katie : Why did you turned your Nikken Transcription of
the Gohonzon in to SGI???? Did you turn back on your "Gojukaï"
commitments. How , you, Katie, could have been responsive to all the SGI
crap on this matter.
This is very disappointing!!
I am very disappointed.
Best Regrds
@lex
You are pretty hasty with your conclusions, Alex--

I,too am disappointed..

~Katie
Alex Beauroy
2016-09-30 22:04:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Getting sloppy Richard / I " cremated " the Nichikan no- Honzon - doubt you have seen a NICHIREN Gohonzon up close and personal .
Oh / no one ever said just what SGI did with
All the Nikken no/ honzons they snatched up / I turned mine in and could not get an answer on how SGI disposed of those -/ I think the animosity SGI still expresses for NIKKEN Bears notice -- and since you are outraged about
Non- Nichiren Gohonzon disposal you really should relaunch your shock and horror campaign in the right direction -- especially since you are NOT SGI , as you claim .
Or maybe you aren't expressing your values or principles about no- Honzon disposal - just trying to ramp up your attack on a sincere follower of Nichiren ??
~Katie
PS - why not ask Noel what he did with his NICHIKAN OR NIKKEN Gohonzon - he has an authentic NICHIREN GOHONZON enshrined in his home --
~Katie
Tiebreaker for Katie : Why did you turned your Nikken Transcription of
the Gohonzon in to SGI???? Did you turn back on your "Gojukaï"
commitments. How , you, Katie, could have been responsive to all the SGI
crap on this matter.
This is very disappointing!!
I am very disappointed.
Best Regrds
@lex
You are pretty hasty with your conclusions, Alex--
I,too am disappointed..
~Katie
I'm disappointed because I thought that you had enough brain not to do
what SGI asked you to do , just by trying to be consistent with your
vows and commitments during your Gojukaï ceremony; while receiving the
Nikken transcription of the Gohonzon.!! My conclusions may hurt you but
you should try to think about it twice or more. Don't blame Chas you are
the same.
Sorry to say that but the truth is flashing !!!! You have been deeply
fooled by Chas and the Gakkai!!!
Sorry Katie
Like your friend Ianx I'll say "Be well"
Hope you will attain enlightenment by the "Poison drum relationship"
Best Regards
@lex
Katie Higgins
2016-09-30 22:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by Alex Beauroy
Post by Katie Higgins
Getting sloppy Richard / I " cremated " the Nichikan no- Honzon - doubt you have seen a NICHIREN Gohonzon up close and personal .
Oh / no one ever said just what SGI did with
All the Nikken no/ honzons they snatched up / I turned mine in and could not get an answer on how SGI disposed of those -/ I think the animosity SGI still expresses for NIKKEN Bears notice -- and since you are outraged about
Non- Nichiren Gohonzon disposal you really should relaunch your shock and horror campaign in the right direction -- especially since you are NOT SGI , as you claim .
Or maybe you aren't expressing your values or principles about no- Honzon disposal - just trying to ramp up your attack on a sincere follower of Nichiren ??
~Katie
PS - why not ask Noel what he did with his NICHIKAN OR NIKKEN Gohonzon - he has an authentic NICHIREN GOHONZON enshrined in his home --
~Katie
Tiebreaker for Katie : Why did you turned your Nikken Transcription of
the Gohonzon in to SGI???? Did you turn back on your "Gojukaï"
commitments. How , you, Katie, could have been responsive to all the SGI
crap on this matter.
This is very disappointing!!
I am very disappointed.
Best Regrds
@lex
You are pretty hasty with your conclusions, Alex--
I,too am disappointed..
~Katie
I'm disappointed because I thought that you had enough brain not to do
what SGI asked you to do , just by trying to be consistent with your
vows and commitments during your Gojukaï ceremony; while receiving the
Nikken transcription of the Gohonzon.!! My conclusions may hurt you but
you should try to think about it twice or more. Don't blame Chas you are
the same.
Sorry to say that but the truth is flashing !!!! You have been deeply
fooled by Chas and the Gakkai!!!
Sorry Katie
Like your friend Ianx I'll say "Be well"
Hope you will attain enlightenment by the "Poison drum relationship"
Best Regards
@lex
Thanks, Alex--- but I have no doubt you are way off in your assumptions--

All I ever did re :the Gakkai was to honor the friendship of the woman who introduced me to chanting and sponsored me receiving Gohonzon--5 days after I first chanted daimoku. I followed her *directions* to attend meetings, etc. and she was the first to hear and comprehend why I found these actions to be *slanderous*.

I studied and chanted from my own understanding that was and remains focused on Nichiren's writings. As I experienced my own awakening, opened my eyes, I courageously challenged the SGI from the teachings, not from *personal bias*

The Gojukai ceremony itself is BOGUS!! There is no basis n Nichiren's writings for it-- and at the time, with 5 days of daimoku I was confusing the *joy from the Law* with all of the *new* religious rites in my *new environment* !! I awoke from this delusion-- EARLY on--

Your pronouncements are odd, in that you, yourself appear confused regarding WHAt and WHO is deserving of respect and deep reverence-- You are still associating with those who tampered with Nichiren's teachings for self serving aims--

It boggles my mind how anyone can really study Nichiren and then seek ceremonies as the *religious experience*-- there is no need of them, WORSE, these Taiskeji creations confuse and disrupt the development of faith in the LAW--

Yup! you are as attached to *externals* and abiding the *code of conduct* prescribed by *persons* NOT Nichiren, as Chas himself is doing-- You follow the high priest, Chas, follows the "Mentor,-- and both of you are out in left field together, criticizing sincere followers for lacking the pomp and circumstance that pollutes your practice and destroys your faith--

Associating with SGI was like *being in Rome"-- doing what "Roman's" DO-- I never-- repeat NEVER followed either SGI leaders or NST priests in my heart-- . Many Roms suffered brain damage nd early death from *lead poisoning*--- which is the way of those still drinking the Gakkai and NST poison. Just observe what is happening..

I repent my stupidity--feel deep remorse over it. You cannot, it seems realize that ALL of the prescriptions and formulas-- ceremonies and *VOWS* concocted by SGI/NST amount to the same thing-- Lies told in order to exploit people for personal gain and profit--

BTW, my marriage ceremony was conducted by our Town Clerk-- in our home, at our altar and in front of our closest fiends and family-- NO member or leader of the slanderous Gakkai was sought out or invited to my wedding. THIS was a decision that resulted from my sincere *seeking spirit* with daimoku-- I recall from 18 years ago how this decision was viewed by *Boston SGI leaders* as the path to a failed marriage-- Nothing could be further from the truth!!

I urge you to take an Independence BREAK from associating with those who have been led astray-- into believing that any common mortal could ever expand to improve Nichiren's teachings and practice-- Unless you actually separate yourself from what came long after Nichiren, you will never know how wrong you are.

Best,
~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-30 23:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Hmm Alex, this is a very strange statement, "why did you turn in your Gohonzon...".

So let's be clear about some of the murk. I wrote directly to tge High Priest, the most reaoectful and neutral letter and got nothing back. Zero, zilch, nada. So in this case the NST priesthood did not take the opportuninty to respond as woulf Nichiren, had ge got my letter. Meanwhile SGI was busy lying to me and every other SGI member, telling us we had been excommunicated. So who does one believe?

Can I believe you would say the same thing to Nichiren Alex for his embrace of Shingon written in his owm hand at the start of his teaching? Would you be saying "I'm very disappointed in you Nichiren, I thought you would have had haldmf a brain noymt to be swayed by Shingon dictrine and do what it's esiteric teachers bid you"?

I don't think you would Alex and mich though I respect your faith and practice, perhaps this pondering on what you woukd do to one and another will give you pause for thought?

Nichiren often says things like "I was one of that opinion too" or "I chanted the Nebutsu". He is open and honest.

There is an irreducable core, which is the Law. Likewise, we are ALL deluded, you too my friend, and me too.

You have to decide for yourself your path, we all do but make no mistake, of the attachments we naturally form, there is only one that will pull us out of delusion.

Sure follow a school, if that's what you need to do for you but perhaps reflect on whether and when that school itself becomes a hinderance rather than a facilitator. On precepts, Nichiren stated very clearly, "I am not the founder of any school, I neither keep the precepts nor break them".

Nichiren evolved in ho life and teaching because he regarded himself as a deluded worldling who followed the Law, he was proof of his teaching "here it is, it works, you try too".

You study Gosho Alex, so you will know. The question for each of us is how much do we believe that what Nichiren was teaching actually does work? If we do, totally and absolutely, then embracing The Daimoku with faith is enough. If we do not, then we will look to others but is that really deep faith? We have to get that answer for ourselves.

SGI is a distraction, it isn't even a buddhist organisation and it teaxhes completely opposite to the Sutra and Nichiren. It's not worthy if mention in this debate. For the rest if us, well lets look to ourselves and focus on our faith. We will all come together from our different directions as we like Nichiren, grow and evolve, seeking the Buddha and following the Law.

Please be well :)
Chas.
2016-10-01 04:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Katie Higgins' offences against the true aspect of all phenomena +

Katie, you make yourself an enemy of the Lotus Sutra by slandering the true aspect via your worship of statues. The true aspect is clearly referring to Myoho-Renge, not statues or images of Shakyamuni, as is stated in the bolded part below.

From "The Entity of the Mystic Law", WND I, p. 423:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-46

... Question: If so, then what passage contains a full
... elucidation of the entity?
...
... Answer: The passage in the “Expedient Means” chapter that
... deals with the true aspect of all phenomena.
...
... Question: How do we know that this passage deals with the
... lotus that is the entity?
...
... Answer: Because T’ien-t’ai and Miao-lo quote this passage
... when they explain the essence of the Lotus Sutra. And the
... Great Teacher Dengyō in his commentary also writes,
... “QUESTION: WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF THE LOTUS SUTRA? ANSWER:
... ITS ESSENCE IS THE TRUE ASPECT OF ALL PHENOMENA.” THIS
... PASSAGE OF COMMENTARY CLARIFIES THE MATTER. (SCHOLARS OF
... THE TIME KEPT THIS COMMENTARY SECRET AND DID NOT REVEAL THE
... NAME OF THE ENTITY, BUT THE PASSAGE IS CLEARLY REFERRING TO
... MYOHO-RENGE.)
...
... Furthermore, actual evidence of the entity is to be found
... in the examples of the three kinds of Buddhas described in
... the “Treasure Tower” chapter, the bodhisattvas who appeared
... from the earth, and the dragon king’s daughter who attained
... Buddhahood in her present form. The Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth offer actual evidence because, as a passage of the
... Lotus Sutra says, “[They are unsoiled by worldly things]
... like the lotus flower in the water.” Thus we learn of the
... true entity of these bodhisattvas. And the dragon king’s
... daughter offers actual evidence because she made her
... appearance at the gathering at Eagle Peak, “seated on a
... thousand-petaled lotus blossom big as a carriage wheel.”
...
... Moreover, the thirty-four manifestations of Bodhisattva
... Wonderful Sound and the thirty-three manifestations of
... Bodhisattva Perceiver of the World’s Sounds constitute
... further evidence. For, as the commentary says, “If he had
... not gained the mysterious power of perfect freedom of
... action through the meditation based on the Lotus Sutra,
... then how could he manifest these thirty-three different
... forms?”
...
... In addition, there is the sutra passage that states, “...
... the characteristics of the world are constantly abiding.”
... All these passages are documentary proofs cited by the
... scholars of our time. Personally, however, I prefer to cite
... the passage in the “Expedient Means” chapter on the true
... aspect of all phenomena and the passage in the
... “Supernatural Powers” chapter that refers to “all the
... doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One.” This last
... passage is also cited by the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai in
... his commentary explaining the five major principles of the
... Lotus Sutra. Therefore, I feel that this passage in
... particular can be cited as certain proof of the entity of
... the Mystic Law.

As I made clear earlier from this passage of the "Immeasurable Meanings Sutra", pp. 12-13, which is preached during the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra and is concurrent with it and not previous to the Lotus Sutra, and which is in no way provisional or to be discarded in any way. In fact the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho reference the true aspect, and without this definition, THEY WOULD BE INCOMPLETE!

Here's the quote that destroys all your statue worshiping, I have highlighted the key phrase so that you cannot miss it (although I fear your mind cannot read it):

"Immeasurable Meanings Sutra", pp. 12-13,

. “When bodhisattvas have in this manner observed the
. beginning and end of these four aspects and have understood
. them in their entirety, then they will clearly perceive
. that all phenomena, never abiding from one instant to
. the next, are constantly being born anew and passing into
. extinction, and then they will immediately perceive the
. true aspect of birth, abiding, change, and extinction.
.
. “Once they have gained this perception, then they must turn
. to the capacities, natures, and desires of living beings.
. Because such natures and desires are immeasurable in
. variety, the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable;
. and because the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable,
. its meanings are likewise immeasurable. THESE IMMEASURABLE
. MEANINGS ARE BORN FROM A SINGLE LAW, AND THIS LAW IS
. WITHOUT ASPECT. WHAT IS WITHOUT ASPECT IS DEVOID OF ASPECT
. AND DOES NOT TAKE ON ASPECT. NOT TAKING ON ASPECT, BEING
. WITHOUT ASPECT, IT IS CALLED THE TRUE ASPECT.
.
. “When bodhisattvas mahasattva rest and abide in this
. understanding of the true aspect of all phenomena, then the
. pity and compassion that they put forth will be based on
. clear understanding and not groundless, and they will be
. truly capable of rescuing living beings from the sufferings
. that they undergo. And once they have rescued them from
. suffering, they will preach the Law for them and enable
. living beings to enjoy ease and delight.

Santai or the Three Truths can only be found in the Lotus Sutra, this is one of the glories of the Lotus Sutra. "The truth of non-substantiality, the truth of temporary existence, and the truth of the Middle Way." from the SGI Dictionary:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/T/183

The images of human beings are the images of their Temporary Existence alone, their impermanence.

I am impermanent and will vanish from the world, this is my destiny from birth: to be born is to die, that is the guarantee of the four sufferings. Birth, aging, sickness and death.

And yet, like an electron that has a particle and a wave function, I am also Non-Substantial and that was true before my birth, during my aging, sickness and after my death. In fact I am dying now, cells that were crucial to my function ar born and then die all the time. I am also like a wave.

In all those phases of my life I am in the Middle Way, the unification of the Three Truths.

Images of living beings are images of impermanence alone, and like "the Tripitaka teaching and the connecting teaching do not reveal the truth of the Middle Way and therefore lack the three truths," (from the definition of Santai) ... they do not possess the "true aspect."

The highest object of worship, the Gohonzon possesses the "true aspect" in the fact that it is an arrangement of characters and does not look like you or me or anyone you know. This is how it can reflect ALL THE LIVING BEINGS, not just here, but everywhere that life has or will develop in the ten directions and the three existences of past, present and future.

All living being possess the true aspect and they are all Buddhas, like the characters of an enormous version of the Lotus Sutra. However, not even the images of the Lord of Teachings, Shakyamuni or the Lord of Practice, Nichiren Daishonin reflect anything other than impermanence.

Only the Gohonzon reflects the true aspect. It is the highest object of worship and all others are pitiful in their aspect, by comparison: why would anyone chant the daimoku, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to any other object of worship?

How dishonorable!

-Chas.
i***@gmail.com
2016-10-01 13:30:03 UTC
Permalink
"Katie Higgins' offences against the true aspect of all phenomena"

Lool Chas's evangelical streak shows through.

Notice how 'the true aspect of all phenomena is personalised and externalised, just like "God" or in Chas's case DaisakuMentor®.

"Katie, you make yourself an enemy of the Lotus Sutra by slandering the true aspect via your worship of statues."

Aside from Chas's false assertion thst Katie worships statues, which he's been corrected in several times, Chas doesn't follow the Lotus Sutra, so why wod he care?

He believes in attainment of buddhahood through the SGI by the grace of its "mentor" Daisaku. Exactly the same as Nembutsu but not as effective, unless one counts it's ability to generate negative karma and lead one into evil paths, in wgich case it surpasses the Nembutsu by a long way.

"The true aspect is clearly referring to Myoho-Renge, not statues or images of Shakyamuni, as is stated in the bolded part below."

All the rest is irrelevant coming from a person who believes that buddhahood is attained through the way of mentor-disciple, which completely defreats Chas's own arguments. "Entry is through faith alone", the Sutra says it,Nichiren says it, SGI, Daisaku and Chas do nit. They argue against this principle, whilst Katie advocates and upholds it.

I'm still waiting for Chas and the SGI media team to provide any evidence to support their teaching. Or even for Chas to clarify the oneness of mentor disciple as practiced in SGI, since he raised the issue.

He has not because the answer is simply a version of a Zen master-disciple transmission, as set out in Daisaku Ikeda's own guidance (the Law) "cannot be conveyed by words and concepts alone" 2009 page 115 Heritage of Ultimate Law of Life SGI Malaysia.

It is also an adaptation of the Japanese Imperial Way, pushed and practiced by a militaristic regime, using exactly the same methods of thought control and manipulation of belief to force conformity and advancement of the war effort.

For "Emperor and Nation" have simply been replaced in SGI with for "Daisaku and Organisation". Think about the oroect the mentor (Daisaku) and orotect the SGI statements - exactly the same approach.

Despite the SGI saying that lifting up and veneration a religious teacher is a dehumanising corruption of religion, tgatcs exactly what they do with Daisaku Ikeda.

Witness, elevation to the status of an "eternal mentor for kosen rufu" and getting SGI members to pray that way.

Witness, "President Ikeda is the culmination of the trinity of the Lotus Sutra, his two predecessors being Kumårajiva and Nichiren Daishonin." and "The Daisensei [Daisaku Ikeda] is the dynamic enlightenment of life, and we are the fields of action."- Lokesh Chandra Director, International Academy of Indian Culture, India"

Daisaku is the Emperor and SGI members are his "fields of action". For SGI members, what Daisaku says goes, no questions. That's what he teaches, that's what SGI teaches.

And what does he and SGI say?

1) Give us money,

2) Give us your time and effort, work for free,

3) Recruit more people into our organisation

4) Listen and only believe in what we say

5) Teach other people, the peolle you recruit, to do 1-4 too.

This quite simply has nothing to do with faith in Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

It has nothing to do with bevoming enlightened or attaining buddhahood.

It has nothing to do with creating a more peaceful tolerant world.

It has nothing to do with spreading Namu Myoho Renge-kyo and faith in that Law.

It has everything to do with creating wealth, status and power for a corporation using religion to sustain itself. Cult. The Cult of Daisaku. Just like many other personality cults. Moonies, Jim Jones's Peoples Church. Hubbard's Scientology. The leaders of which all became wealthy and powerful.

Jim Jones ended in tradgedy but before it did, the money was there to buy land in Granada, Guns and ammo, and enough chemicals to rob innocent people and their children of their lives.

Same mode of operation, devote yourself unquestioningly to a leader who holds the truth. To a leader who claims a people's grassroots organisation with values of sharing and acceptance and diversity. To a leader who sells a vision of world change, a "noble mission", use deception and lies to propogate this vision and keep yourself as leader at the centre. And by these teachings and tools, create for oneself as leader, wealth, status and control.

Exactly the same but on a much larger scale and with a whole corporation, with it's Board of Directors and highly paid executives, who rely on wealth generation from often very sincere, well intentioned people. Exactly the same but using Imperial Way mentor-disciple teaching to generate the bond of loyalty to the leader and his vision and detach people from their own hopes, goals and aspirations. It allhas to be done for the greater cause that SGI and Daisaku have given.

Instead of misusing Christianity, its misusing Buddhism.

Jim Jones was a fake. He was knowingly ordained without having any faith in Christain teachings by someone who knew he didn't believe. He was given the cloak or respectability and the cover of a religious group to draw people in and then used the tools, rituals and belief systems of a religion he did not believe in, to manipulate people.

Nichiren's teaching is simple, effective and beautiful. It has nothing to do with the SGI Imperial Way of mentor-disciple, jyst as SGI has nothing to do with it, except to use it to advance it's corporate ends.

Don't believe me? SGI members, just look at SGI publications. How much time does it spend talking about SGI, aboit it's greatness and what you must do to advance it?

How much time does it spend telling you about Daisaku Ikeda, about his achievements and how he has achieved his mentors will? How much time dies it spend telling you to make a bond with the mentor?

How much time does it spend tellung you to just go and read the Sutra or Gosho and chant about them? And how often are you tokd that you can are capable of understanding things for yourself? Or even that its perfectly OK to disagree with Daisaku and SGI, without having your faith questioned.

See how it works? Now do you see why Chas and Co are in here? Money. Whether you are fooled is up to you.

For those who don't want to be there is faith and Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Simple, perfect, simply perfect Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

Be well :D
Katie Higgins
2016-10-01 21:43:26 UTC
Permalink
<<"Notice how 'the true aspect of all phenomena is personalised and externalised, just like "God" or in Chas's case DaisakuMentor<<"

I know-right? It is so weird the way these " SGI Buddhas" defer to their *leader*--even though Daisaku Ikeda has disappeared. This is so weird because wouldn't you expect just the opposite? I mean the culmination of the hoopla, pomp and circumstance of the *global kosen-rufu movement" should be the victorious Mentor waving from the winners circle. right?

Wouldn't you want the guy who has been promoted as a modern day Ghandi out front-- up close and personal ?? -- But, hey! The ETERNAL mentor is missing in action. Like, no-one is supposed to wonder about this??

C'mon -- it is down to the wire *actual proof* time and Daisaku is *indisposed*-- really??

Spend a few minutes explaining that one, Chas.

~Katie
Katie Higgins
2016-10-01 22:33:13 UTC
Permalink
<<"Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part. <<"

No intermediaries required !!!

Hi ho!
~Katie
Katie Higgins
2016-10-02 04:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
<<"Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, which brings reliable results - "results" another word in which U play an integral part. <<"
No intermediaries required !!!
Hi ho!
~Katie
No intermediaries EVER needed !!

Katie Higgins
2016-09-30 16:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@gmail.com
Ah so we see now your true colours Noel. Let's just stop and back up a bit shall we?
Firstly, Richard says a lot of things in his posts. He orginially came here, praising my posts for revealling the hollowness of mentor disciple and telling the world how SGI leaders quaked with fear amd blaming SGI for breaking up with his wife. He told me I was naive when I kept amd open mind about Daisaku Ikeda, whilst elsewhere still quote clearly holding his allegiance to SGI and his mentor.
In other words sttaight off he was being deceitful and duplicitous.
To my knowledge he has never posted over on ARBN and yet he said he had respect for me there. That's odd that he would never post there but had read my comments there. Can we bieve that Richard would read but not comment? He's spread across the internet in many religious forums. I can't so who is he there then? Noel?
There are several possibilities.
1) you are not Noel.
2) both Noel amd Richard are you
Determining 1 & 3 is easy. I will ask Noel directly on ARBN to review this thread and post his reply here.
From the answer to 1 & 3 we have the answer to 2 and have solved the riddle of Space Treasury too.
You know me, forensic in my analysis. You've given me another comparison to do and you know how much I enjoy that. Noel's ppsting pattern and themes, Dickies, Space Treasury. The pattern of language used. And their timing.
Thanks for the head's up, I'm surd the rest of the forum is grateful fir the insight you have given it into SGI methods too.
Be well :)
I can see the similarities between Richard and Noel-- now that Noel is disinhibited -- but there is the Chas flare that complicates the *trinity* concept.

I think julian is space treasury---though, almost positive.

"Paging Dr. Freud" !!

LOL ;-)
~Katie
Julian
2016-09-30 16:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
Ah so we see now your true colours Noel. Let's just stop and back up a bit shall we?
Firstly, Richard says a lot of things in his posts. He orginially came here, praising my posts for revealling the hollowness of mentor disciple and telling the world how SGI leaders quaked with fear amd blaming SGI for breaking up with his wife. He told me I was naive when I kept amd open mind about Daisaku Ikeda, whilst elsewhere still quote clearly holding his allegiance to SGI and his mentor.
In other words sttaight off he was being deceitful and duplicitous.
To my knowledge he has never posted over on ARBN and yet he said he had respect for me there. That's odd that he would never post there but had read my comments there. Can we bieve that Richard would read but not comment? He's spread across the internet in many religious forums. I can't so who is he there then? Noel?
There are several possibilities.
1) you are not Noel.
2) both Noel amd Richard are you
Determining 1 & 3 is easy. I will ask Noel directly on ARBN to review this thread and post his reply here.
From the answer to 1 & 3 we have the answer to 2 and have solved the riddle of Space Treasury too.
You know me, forensic in my analysis. You've given me another comparison to do and you know how much I enjoy that. Noel's ppsting pattern and themes, Dickies, Space Treasury. The pattern of language used. And their timing.
Thanks for the head's up, I'm surd the rest of the forum is grateful fir the insight you have given it into SGI methods too.
Be well :)
I can see the similarities between Richard and Noel-- now that Noel is disinhibited -- but there is the Chas flare that complicates the *trinity* concept.
I think julian is space treasury---though, almost positive.
I'd call you an idiot were it not for the your woman's
privilege of wanton incoherent assertions.
Katie Higgins
2016-09-30 16:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
Post by Katie Higgins
Post by i***@gmail.com
Ah so we see now your true colours Noel. Let's just stop and back up a bit shall we?
Firstly, Richard says a lot of things in his posts. He orginially came here, praising my posts for revealling the hollowness of mentor disciple and telling the world how SGI leaders quaked with fear amd blaming SGI for breaking up with his wife. He told me I was naive when I kept amd open mind about Daisaku Ikeda, whilst elsewhere still quote clearly holding his allegiance to SGI and his mentor.
In other words sttaight off he was being deceitful and duplicitous.
To my knowledge he has never posted over on ARBN and yet he said he had respect for me there. That's odd that he would never post there but had read my comments there. Can we bieve that Richard would read but not comment? He's spread across the internet in many religious forums. I can't so who is he there then? Noel?
There are several possibilities.
1) you are not Noel.
2) both Noel amd Richard are you
Determining 1 & 3 is easy. I will ask Noel directly on ARBN to review this thread and post his reply here.
From the answer to 1 & 3 we have the answer to 2 and have solved the riddle of Space Treasury too.
You know me, forensic in my analysis. You've given me another comparison to do and you know how much I enjoy that. Noel's ppsting pattern and themes, Dickies, Space Treasury. The pattern of language used. And their timing.
Thanks for the head's up, I'm surd the rest of the forum is grateful fir the insight you have given it into SGI methods too.
Be well :)
I can see the similarities between Richard and Noel-- now that Noel is disinhibited -- but there is the Chas flare that complicates the *trinity* concept.
I think julian is space treasury---though, almost positive.
I'd call you an idiot were it not for the your woman's
privilege of wanton incoherent assertions.
Just like you,or Julian-- to SAY what you claim you cannot--, or would not or possibly could not say---

LOL!
~Katie
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-30 17:18:05 UTC
Permalink
"I'd call you an idiot were it not for the your woman's
privilege of wanton incoherent assertions."

Oh and now the rampant sexism is overt too. My, my they'rr falling over themselves to come out of the closet and into the harsh blinding light.

So far from the Devdatta Chapter, do they even care or even realise? Clearly not but at least it's honest. Rare but then they have no choice, they just can't help themselves.

I remember the first time I saw this, it was semi hidden then, and boy how Jules wriggled when challenged, now it's out there on full veiw for all to see.

Be well :)
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-30 18:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Sure Richard, sure! Keep telling yourself these things and any gullible SGI members who don't use the forum index to check.

"The POISON has Penetrated DEEPLY Lainx. Your paranoid and revealing insanity has you imagining our beliefs as only being held by one or two persons how shallow...."

I know SGI Promoteaching are held by millions and like you, I know that number is falling fast. And it is falling so fast because SGI started out hanging on the coat tails of Nichiren Buddhism, which was when most of it's growth happened before moving very slowly to it's current hollow teachings.

That's a problem for SGI, since I kept my books and I'd actually read them. So I could spot the change, I could compare, I could quote, accurately. So I could highlight the changes and put my finger right on them. Thatcs what SGI didn't expect, it put Chas on the back foot and brought you here. And befire you dissemble, I've got the posts where you say exactly that and I can link to them in the archive, even though you deleted them.

What SGI never expected was for people like Katie, Mark and me to pop up. Mark they'd gotten used to but from left fiekd came Katie and me. Lool, even I didn't expect to, but nevertheless, that's what happened. It provided an analyst, who was also a sincere believer, who had read the Sutra and treasured it and had read and treasured Nichiren and who had read and kept hold of SGI's books, someone who noticed and noted and despite dyslexia, had trained to draft. Nightmare.

And another who had done likewise, and who had acted on her faith, putting it into action where it had been noted and recognised. Someone articulate and skilled. Double nightmare. And it brought others, people who were following the Law and changing thier lives and getting their faith back, deepening and strengthening it. Triple, quadruple, quintruple, nightmare.

And it brought these people together, people with very different lives, very different skills, very different life stories and journeys of faith but sharing a common bond, the Law. A perfect storm that SGI cannot ride and cannot escape from. Different ordinary people, providing a multipoint authentic narrative, many different voices united in a common song, harmony and melody, in perfect rhythm and time, true itai doshin, united in the single mind of faith.

The song that tosses SGI on its joyous waves, shaking it's timbers apart, breaking its bow and ripping apart it's stern, dashing the corrupt worldly enterprise on the rocks buta scooping up those who loose from that rotten and sinking ship. The song that cradles those glorious people, who have, pitched overboard and who suffered under Daisaku's Imperial mentor-disciple way for so long. Bouying them up onto the floating Sandalwood log, with the hollow of the Law. The Daimoku, stabalising them, protecting them, guiding them Cooling their bellies and warming their backs, the Law reviving them all so they can sing too - Namu Myoho Renge Kyo, Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. The waves the SGI is not and cannot resist.

The Sutra bids me challenge, Nichiren certainly does amd strangely so did SGI in 2004, I guess they thought nobody actually would or that if they did they would exempt Daisaku. But I didn't exempt, I followed the Law, as does Mark, Katie and others too. And more, and more, and more, follow the Law.

So, where is your Sutra and Gosho Richard? Nowhere. Even when you quote it, you cannot bring it together, explain or understand it. One post contradicts another or fails to account for what is said in yet a third. But it doesn't matter, you delete them anyway. And then reistate them, then delete them, then change your mind, then change it back again.

We are deluded, we know that, this is why we follow the Law, chant Daimoku and culitvate out faith. And we bid others do this too. We direct to the Sutra, read it, chant about it, we direct to Nichiren, don't take our word, read him, chant about what he says. But most of all we direct to Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, the Law itself. Chant it, follow it, let the Buddha come forth from within you and teach. Let this build your faith. This is what we say, this is what we do and this is just what an increasing number of people are doing.

Simple. Uncomplicated. Effective.

Not the SGI way eh Richard and not yours. You pull up your bully pulpit, puff out your chest and spew forth whatever your mentor said last. Just like Chas.

You all know SGI promoteaching cannot stand up to 150 days of pure unadulterated focus on faith in the Law.

You don't even believe SGI teaching can stand up to a 150 day break. Lool.

What is your problem and Chas's? A compleye and utter lack of faith, in anything, not even your flimsy SGI promodoctrines.

But on this side if the debate, you are faced with people who have total faith in the effectiveness of Namu Myoho Renge-kyo and simple pure faith.

We know that even with all of your words and the full force of the SGI media machine, your efforts will be in vain.

The Sutra always wins. That's it's job. And it does best in muddy swamps. The more mud you sling at the Law and those who follow it,the more it grows and blossoms.

A you have done over the last year here, is provide fetiliser, lots and lots of fetiliser as you spread your muck and I'm glad of it. You have helped the good roots grow deep. You have helped lives blossom. Thank you. :)

Posts get copied, they get circulated and facebooked. They get noticed and discussed, shared and noted. And all the while people hear Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, Namu Myoho Renge-kyo, Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. And none of this would have happened without Chas, Jules and you. Thank you.

Peole start looking and the seed of the Daimoku planted. They start pondering "what is faith? What's the right object of focus for faith?" And right there the Buddha starts teaching and leads them to Gohonzon, not the SGI scroll but their true Gohonzon within. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Their lives and their faith grows, the Law grows, naturally, simply. Daimoku, it's all they need Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. And the Law starts blossoming and never stops. The simple practice, superior practice.

What chance does a muddled, incohearant, complicated, confusing and compketly ineffective promodoctrine have against the superior simplicity of single minded faith in Namu Myoho Renge-kyo? None.

It doesn't matter that people fall short, doing their best is enough. The Buddha sees all and guides and teaches accordingly. Progression is certain if one follows the path follows the Law. The Sutra says it, Nichiren says it, Tien Tai says it, Dengyo says it. What is that path? Superior simplicity. Namu Myoho Renge-kyo. Namu - faith, Myoho Renge-kyo - the wonderful Law.

Why don't you advocate it? Why doesn't Chas? Why doesn't Jules? Why doesn't the SGI? Because there is no profit, status or power for any of you in it. So you oppose it, you try to confuse and abuse. You are the muck spreaders, the fertilisers, your own words, indicting you and helping the good roots to grow, the fine flowering of the Lotus of the Law to flourish. It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. Thank you. :D

And when your time is right, you'll all join us on that road too. And you will be welcome, one and all. Gassho.

Until then - be well, be very well :)




I am and always have been Richard H Brown. Noel is Noel and you are whatever Katie The Devils Maiden tells her LITTLE GIRL to be...ummmm A Nichiren Gohonzon Burner and teller of lies. What a faithless coward you are! I say this to arouse introspection and doubt! You my friend are blinded by your own deep arrogance and your obsession with Ikeda. Why?

Sincerely
JazzIs TvRicky
2016-09-30 19:49:57 UTC
Permalink
So now you are revealing your disdain for the Gohonzon. You do not believe the in the Primary Practice of Nichiren Daishonin any longer! The Gohonzon is not necessary to attain enlightenment as far as you are concerned. Only chanting to Statues and reciting Shayamuni's dead Lotus Sutra is necessary. How faithless you and your crew are.

Oh! By the way, where is your posting on the Gosho 'On The Four stages of Faith and The Five Stages of Practice? I dare you to post it! You said you were going to. When? I can't wait!

'Defeat' is your Honzon Lainx

Sincerely
i***@gmail.com
2016-09-30 21:39:54 UTC
Permalink
"What is?"

This is Richard.

Clearly you haven't read Nichiren nor studed his life history Richard.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichiren

But to answer your question very simply, Faith is the primary practice but faith in the Sutra - that is Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

Gohonzon Mandala wasn't inscribed until late Nichiren's life at age 51. His first extant Gohonzon mandala, the Yoji Gohonzon is dated 9th day of the 10th month 1271.

Nichiren did not confer Gohonzon on every one of his disciples. Only on thosr with strong faith.

So for everyone, including Nichiren, from the establishment of his teaching in 1253 to 1271, no Gohonzon script mandala was available. If you are suggesting that during this period, Nichiren's followers weren't practicing correctly or wouldn't attain enlightenment then you are simply wrong. As Nichiren points out here:

Questions and Answers about Embracing the Lotus Sutra

Dated 1263

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/8

"Lack of faith is the basic failing that causes a person to fall into hell. Therefore, the sutra states, “If with regard to this sutra one should harbor doubt and fail to believe, one will fall at once into the evil paths."

And later on Nichiren urges:

(Ibid)

"Everywhere other than the Capital of Tranquil Light is a realm of suffering. Once you leave the haven of inherent enlightenment, what is there to bring you joy? I pray that you will embrace the Mystic Law, which guarantees that people “will enjoy peace and security in their present existence and good circumstances in future existences.” This is the only glory that you need seek in your present lifetime, and is the action that will draw you toward Buddhahood in your next existence. Single-mindedly chant Namu Myoho Renge-kyo and urge others to do the same; that will remain as the only memory of your present life in this human world."

With regard to faith, Nichiren in the section just before the first quote gives the analogy of the rope held out by the Buddha:

(Ibid)

"To illustrate, suppose that a person is standing at the foot of a tall embankment and is unable to ascend. And suppose that there is someone on top of the embankment who lowers a rope and says, “If you take hold of this rope, I will pull you up to the top of the embankment.” If the person at the bottom begins to doubt that the other has the strength to pull him up, or wonders if the rope is not too weak and therefore refuses to put forth his hand and grasp it, then how is he ever to get to the top of the embankment? But if he follows the instructions, puts out his hand, and takes hold of the rope, then he can climb up.

If one doubts the strength of the Buddha when he says, “I am the only person who can rescue and protect others”; if one is suspicious of the rope held out by the Lotus Sutra when its teachings declare that one can “gain entrance through faith alone”; if one fails to chant the Mystic Law which guarantees that “such a person assuredly and without doubt [will attain the Buddha way]," then the Buddha’s power cannot reach one, and it will be impossible to scale the embankment of enlightenment."

And in the section just before that he might as well have been talking about the current SGIkeda promoteachings and the incessant push to make SGI members reliant on SGI and the supposed wisdom of it's "mentor" Daisaku because they can't bring forth buddhahood on their own or without the SGI's help. All nonsense as Nichiren points out:

(Ibid)

"Answer: It is the way of scholars these days to assert that only those who possess superior wisdom and strenuously exert themselves in the practice of meditation have the capacity to benefit from the Lotus Sutra, and to discourage persons who lack wisdom from even trying. But this is in fact an utterly ignorant and erroneous view. The Lotus Sutra is the teaching that enables all living beings to attain the Buddha way. Therefore, the persons of superior faculties and superior capacity should naturally devote themselves to contemplation and to meditating on the Law. But, for persons of inferior faculties and inferior capacity, the important thing is simply to have a heart of faith. Hence the sutra states: “If there are good men or good women who . . . believe and revere it with pure hearts and harbor no doubts or perplexities, they will never fall into hell or the realm of hungry spirits or of beasts, but will be born in the presence of the Buddhas of the ten directions.” One should have complete faith in the Lotus Sutra and look forward to being born in the presence of the Buddhas in one’s next life."

This is what Mark, Katie, and I advocate Richard. This is what Katie's husband, Kahlei Jigoku and others are demonstrating in actuality.

(Ibid)

"The blessings gained by arousing even a single moment of faith in and understanding of the Lotus Sutra surpass those of practicing the five prāmitās; and the benefit enjoyed by the fiftieth person who rejoices on hearing the Lotus Sutra is greater than that acquired by giving alms for eighty years. The doctrine of the immediate attainment of enlightenment far outshines the doctrines of other scriptures; and the pronouncements concerning the revelation of the Buddha’s original enlightenment and his immeasurable life span are never found in any other teachings."

And this is what Nichiren has to say about those who would put their teachings on a par with the Lotus Sutra, as Daisaku Ikeda and the SGI has done by interpreting the entire Lotus Sutra to make it fit with SGI's mentor-disciple promo teaching and the lens of the Human Revolution it has used to guide all it's activities since Daisaku "wrote" it. And as SGI has done with itcs 2009 promo lecture on the Hetitage of the Ulrimate Law of Life, whuch speaks of "sutras of the future will say of SGI".

(Ibid)

"To ignore the supremacy of the Lotus Sutra and assert that other sutras stand on a par with it is to commit the worst possible slander of the Law, a major offense of the utmost gravity. No analogy could suffice to illustrate it. The Buddhas, for all their powers of magical transformation, could never finish describing its consequences, and the bodhisattvas, with all the wisdom at their command, could not fathom its immensity. Thus, the “Simile and Parable” chapter of the Lotus Sutra says, “If I were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come to the end.” This passage means that not even a whole kalpa would be time enough to explain the full gravity of the offense of a person who acts even once against the Lotus Sutra."

And this is what Nichiren has to say about people like you and Chas who defend the SGI teaching that Buddhahood is attained through "the way of mentor disciple" and defend a mentor who proclaims that buddhahood can only be attained by SGI members but not those who in any way criticise or disagree with the SGI or it's mentor, no matter how legitimate or reasonable those criticisms.

(Ibid)

"Taking a careful look at the world today, we see that, although people declare that the Law is worthy of respect, they all express hatred for the person who upholds it. You yourself seem to be very much confused as to the source from which the Law springs."

And this is what he observes about the type of behaviour you and Chas display to people who advocate the Law, direct to the Sutra and Nichiren and urge peole towards single minded faith:

(Ibid)

"Thus the sutra states, “If this person . . . on seeing those who read, recite, copy, and uphold this sutra, should despise, hate, envy, or bear grudges against them . . . When his life comes to an end he will enter the Avīchi hell.” This passage means that a person who despises, looks down on, hates, envies, or holds a grudge against those who read and embrace the Lotus Sutra will fall into the great citadel of the Avīchi hell after he dies.27 Who could help but fear these golden words of the great sage? And who could doubt the clear-cut pronouncement of the Buddha when he said, “Honestly discarding expedient means, [I will preach only the unsurpassed way]”?"

And the consequences, as you are so clearly demonstrating.

(Ibid)
"Hence, if the Law that one embraces is supreme, then the person who embraces it must accordingly be foremost among all others. And if that is so, then to speak ill of that person is to speak ill of the Law, just as to show contempt for the child is to show contempt for the parents.

You should realize from this that the people of today speak words that in no way match what is in their hearts. It is as though they were to beat their parents with a copy of The Classic of Filial Piety. When they know that, unseen by others, the Buddhas and bodhisattvas are observing them, how can they fail to be ashamed of such actions!"

Let's just be really clear, Daisaku Ikeda alone was excommunicated by Nichiren Shoshu for deviating in faith. He and the SGI then misled SGI members (me included) into thinking they had been excommunicated too, when they had not. Daisaku Ikeda still perpetuates that lie, sauing "when we recieved the ludicrous notification of excommunication".

He has subsequently changed SGI teachings to his own attainment of enlightenment through the way of mentor-disciple, with him as mentor, using the Lotus Sutra as a prop to try and legitimise himself. Has reinterpreted the Sutra and redefined the daimoku in the shape of that corrupt teaching. Created a "buddha of the SGI" attibuting it to Mr Toda and started referring to what good things sutras of the future will say of the SGI and him as mentor. And he and the SGI have elevated him and it's presidents to the status of "eternal mentors for 'kosen rufu'.

Meanwhile he and SGI have attacked and disparaged Nichiren Shoshu, Nichiren Shu and any other "competing" sect, not just as organisations but sweeping in all of their members, without reference to what their state and sincerity of their faith may actually be. And he and it have openly attacked independent practitioners who clearly and consistently advocate single minded faith in the Sutra and the Daimoku, Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

SGI and Daisaku Ikeda encorages it's members to engage in such slanderous acts.

So, Richard, lets look at that again shall we?

(Ibid)

"You should realize from this that the people of today speak words that in no way match what is in their hearts. It is as though they were to beat their parents with a copy of The Classic of Filial Piety. When they know that, unseen by others, the Buddhas and bodhisattvas are observing them, how can they fail to be ashamed of such actions!"

Your actions have to match your words. A concept that you, Chas, Daisaku Ikeda and SGI cannot seem to get it's head around.

"You should realize from this that the people of today speak words that in no way match what is in their hearts. It is as though they were to beat their parents with a copy of The Classic of Filial Piety. When they know that, unseen by others, the Buddhas and bodhisattvas are observing them, how can they fail to be ashamed of such actions!""

What counts Richard, is chanting sincerely with faith to the best of one's ability - Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.

What counts Richard, is trying onrs best to match ones actions with the Sutra.

What counts Richard is "entry is through faith alone" and countering those who teach otherwise, especially when they do so deceitfully, using lies and manipulation and extra especially when they use the Lotus Sutra and the artifacts of Nichiren Buddhism to do so.

What does not count, is chanting 'daimoku' to a scroll that SGI values so littke it hands them out as a free gift for taking out a subscription to World Tribune, joining it's Daisaku glorification social club, whilst teaching itcs members to chant with Daisaku Ikeda, rather than the Sutra and the Law in mind.

That my friend is slander of the gravest kind. It profoundly damages those so taught as well as those who so teach. When those people suffer, that's SGI's respinsibility. When those suffering people leave as so many do but then completely lose their faith and slander the Sutra in their lives, through the disbelief the SGI has brought about, that is the SGI's responsibility.

It is no less than spiritual abuse, spiritual violence for no better reason than the pursuit of corporate gain.

It is the complete opposite of value creation, except the value that highly paid keaders and it's Board and leader derive on the backs of people who donate their hard earned cash and who work for free.

Put simply it is both evil and corrupt snd uses often very sincere, genuine and well intentioned people and pollutes and wrecks their faith.

And you and Chas are complicit, active supporters of that enterprise.

So Richard, "that"s what".

Now if you can - be well. And genuinely hope you will, despite your very best efforts not to be and to take as many as you can with you, plunging downwards out of all control.

Namu Myoho Renge-kyo.
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