What makes a Gohonzon? Where did the 'indies' go wrong?

[k***@yahoo.com]

What makes a Gohonzon?
I had a little look at our Robs efforts on his blog. Boy, I can't
take a lot of it in one sitting I have to say. How much can anyone
take?
In his latest blog he writes for instance:
"There are also some special Nichiren Honzon. These are different
images than the Great Mandala. The Prayer Gohonzon {PG}, for healing
illness, is one of those special purpose ones. This is available
through Independents and/or self service."

Now let's think about this a little.

He is implying (actually blatantly stating) that this 'Prayer
Gohonzon' is available to all and sundry 'through independents
and/or self-service'.
What does this strange idea actually mean? Which Temple has made this
amazing Honzon available? Who sanctioned it? How does a scanned image
become a Gohonzon?
It means that Mr Ross scanned an image from a Japanese book and then
went on to "distribute" this image to anyone who wished to have it.

From here-on the 'indies' went on a downhill slope and sure enough

Rob was there soon enough extolling the virtues of this particular
Honzon and encouraging others to download and print and do what-ever
they wish with it.
If I have understood correctly the book from which this one image comes
from was published by the Nichiren Shu, a sect well known for its lack
of respect towards the scroll Gohonzon. After all they allow anyone to
sell copies in souvenir shops surrounding their Temples in Japan.
"Which size would you like sir?" "We have a special 30% off sale
at the moment".
As the book itself is an old book (I gather) the copyright issue is
something which might be unresolved. In any case Nichiren Shu will not
take action on this blatant stealing of an image from one of its
publications because they do not hold Gohonzon images that dear.
It is interesting of course that even the Shu do conduct a form of eye
opening on their own Honzons and do not condone practise to one which
has not been eye opened using their particular rituals to do so. It
seems to me that only the rebel Priest in the US whom Rob is advising
tolerates and seems to even support people using it as he seems to
agree with anything which might cause people to take an interest in his
sect.
Or more precisely anything which might lure people away from embracing
any doctrines of Nichiren Shoshu.
Rob in his blog makes it seem that the original Prayer Honzon was
inscribed for all illnesses of mankind or something but of course it
was just a Honzon of specific receptivity inscribed for an indivual to
cure him of his illness. I would imagine the Daishonin would be
horrified to see people making their own copies of it on cheap inkjet
printers with no control what-so-ever as to where it might end up..
It is often said in Nichiren Shoshu how some people when they lose
their faith in the Dai-Gohonzon have scattered minds. These people ,
many of whom just don't know any better, encouraged by pick-and-mix
'Buddhists' like Rob end up having just that. Minds which no longer
even know how to focus on a Gohonzon making devotions to pieces of
paper with inkjet print on them.
Some of these 'scattered minds' have already gone on to make
digital images of this particular Honzon where they have even gone as
far as introducing deletions or additions. This alone shows how ego
driven they are.
It is difficult to even talk about faith with such people as there is
no longer any common ground as to what that night imply. Faith in what?
In a photocopy?
In an idea? What?
Actually these people are a sign that the True Law is about to spread.
They are representing the total confusion which is Mappo. Out of the
confusion there will one day surface some searching minds who will
return to the faith they once upon a time pledged to uphold.
Remember the joy you felt at the beginning of taking faith Rob? Pure
joy? You can have it again as long as you let go of your silly ego
based ideas and pompous pontifications.
You make claims, I presume, to be a Nichiren Buddhist. Start living
like one. Let go of your provisional self satisfied thinking and
develop some humility in front of the True Buddha. Believe in his words
not mine. It is all there. All you need to do is let go of your
attachments to the provisional and New Age thinking. And self satisfied
pretend piety.
Now these words will be wasted but there might come a time when you
will remember them. If you wish to lead other down this downhill slope
you are on in the very least stop it. That will be a better cause than
you would ever have dreamed of making.

kokumei.

[Cody]

Nice try, Kokumei and good pointers for all the lurkers. Your words,
I'm afraid, will go in one of Robin's ears and right out the other.

Cody

[k***@yahoo.com]

I know. But at least I have tried. You see, I actually like the old
guy!
I disagree with most he stands for but can't somehow help but like him.
I admire how he just keeps typing on his keyboard despite all his
illnesses just to get his vision out. It is a shame the vision is all
wrong. :(

kokumei.

[Mark P.]

Post by k***@yahoo.com
I admire how he just keeps typing on his keyboard despite all his
illnesses just to get his vision out. It is a shame the vision is all
wrong. :(

And the reason for the illnesses.


Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[robek]

Post by Mark P.

Post by k***@yahoo.com
I admire how he just keeps typing on his keyboard despite all his
illnesses just to get his vision out. It is a shame the vision is all
wrong. :(

And the reason for the illnesses.
Mark Porter

````````````````````````````````````
Mark,

I forgive you that. But you are in no position to diagnose. I wish I
had a dollar for every piece of useless unsolicited free medical advice
I have heard.

r

[Mark P.]

Post by robek
Mark,
I forgive you that. But you are in no position to diagnose. I wish I
had a dollar for every piece of useless unsolicited free medical advice
I have heard.

I am always trying to figure out why things happen to me based on the
causes I make, and I have a pretty good experience to relate about it.


I got really mad one day at what someone wrote on arbn and I just
couldn't shake my anger. I was so angry that when I had to go to work
I was distracted because I was deep in my anger and didn't want to
shake it off like I knew I should. Well, since I was distracted I
didn't turn left where I normally would and continued on down the
street, but since I was distracted by my own anger I also wasn't
watching my speed. Because I wasn't watching my speed and was too
distracted to make the left turn I would have normally made, I ended
up getting a speeding ticket. That is a classic case of letting
someone else control my environment and recieving the effect right
away.

I consider myself to have pretty good karma because when I make a
mistake, I suffer the consequences immediately. People like Marc,
don't suffer their consequences until the next lifetime because they
have shitty karma due to their own slander. The Daishonin outlined
this concept, but it appears most people don't even know of it.

Consider yourself lucky that something has happened to you this
lifetime, but also consider what it is you have done that warranted
the effect!


Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[robek]

Post by k***@yahoo.com
What makes a Gohonzon?
I had a little look at our Robs efforts on his blog. Boy, I can't
take a lot of it in one sitting I have to say. How much can anyone
take?
"There are also some special Nichiren Honzon. These are different
images than the Great Mandala. The Prayer Gohonzon {PG}, for healing
illness, is one of those special purpose ones. This is available
through Independents and/or self service."
Now let's think about this a little.
He is implying (actually blatantly stating) that this 'Prayer
Gohonzon' is available to all and sundry 'through independents
and/or self-service'.
What does this strange idea actually mean? Which Temple has made this
amazing Honzon available? Who sanctioned it? How does a scanned image
become a Gohonzon?
It means that Mr Ross scanned an image from a Japanese book and then
went on to "distribute" this image to anyone who wished to have it.

From here-on the 'indies' went on a downhill slope and sure enough

Rob was there soon enough extolling the virtues of this particular
Honzon and encouraging others to download and print and do what-ever
they wish with it.
a sect well known for its lack
of respect towards the scroll Gohonzon.
"Which size would you like sir?" "We have a spAfter all they allow anyone to
sell copies in souvenir shops surrounding their Temples in Japan.ecial 30% off sale
at the moment".
As the book itself is an old book (I gather) the copyright issue is
something which might be unresolved. In any case Nichiren Shu will not
take action on this blatant stealing of an image from one of its
publications because they do not hold Gohonzon images that dear.
It is interesting of course that even the Shu do conduct a form of eye
opening on their own Honzons and do not condone practise to one which
has not been eye opened using their particular rituals to do so. It
seems to me that only the rebel Priest in the US whom Rob is advising
tolerates and seems to even support people using it as he seems to
agree with anything which might cause people to take an interest in his
sect.
Or more precisely anything which might lure people away from embracing
any doctrines of Nichiren Shoshu.
Rob in his blog makes it seem that the original Prayer Honzon was
inscribed for all illnesses of mankind or something but of course it
was just a Honzon of specific receptivity inscribed for an indivual to
cure him of his illness. I would imagine the Daishonin would be
horrified to see people making their own copies of it on cheap inkjet
printers with no control what-so-ever as to where it might end up..
It is often said in Nichiren Shoshu how some people when they lose
their faith in the Dai-Gohonzon have scattered minds. These people ,
many of whom just don't know any better, encouraged by pick-and-mix
'Buddhists' like Rob end up having just that. Minds which no longer
even know how to focus on a Gohonzon making devotions to pieces of
paper with inkjet print on them.
Some of these 'scattered minds' have already gone on to make
digital images of this particular Honzon where they have even gone as
far as introducing deletions or additions. This alone shows how ego
driven they are.
It is difficult to even talk about faith with such people as there is
no longer any common ground as to what that night imply. Faith in what?
In a photocopy?
In an idea? What?
Actually these people are a sign that the True Law is about to spread.
They are representing the total confusion which is Mappo. Out of the
confusion there will one day surface some searching minds who will
return to the faith they once upon a time pledged to uphold.
Remember the joy you felt at the beginning of taking faith Rob? Pure
joy? You can have it again as long as you let go of your silly ego
based ideas and pompous pontifications.
You make claims, I presume, to be a Nichiren Buddhist. Start living
like one. Let go of your provisional self satisfied thinking and
develop some humility in front of the True Buddha. Believe in his words
not mine. It is all there. All you need to do is let go of your
attachments to the provisional and New Age thinking. And self satisfied
pretend piety.
Now these words will be wasted but there might come a time when you
will remember them. If you wish to lead other down this downhill slope
you are on in the very least stop it. That will be a better cause than
you would ever have dreamed of making.
kokumei.

```````````````````````````````

Post by k***@yahoo.com
Mr Ross scanned an image from a Japanese book

```````````````````````````````````````
No. Don scanned the Medicine Mandala that Bishop Murano obtained for
hi,.

Post by k***@yahoo.com
Rob in his blog makes it seem that the original Prayer Honzon was
inscribed for all illnesses of mankind or something but of course it
was just a Honzon of specific receptivity inscribed for an indivual to
cure him of his illness.

`````````````````````````````````````````
It was not inscribed for any particular sick person. It was issued to
Nissho for use in healing. [Conferment]: Nissho, Sramana of the great
sun country of Japan.

There is at least one other one just like it. Issued to either Nichiro
and/or Nitcho.

Post by k***@yahoo.com
After all they allow anyone to
sell copies in souvenir shops surrounding their Temples in Japan.

````````````````````````````````
Private shops, Commercial mandalas.

Post by k***@yahoo.com
silly ego based ideas and pompous pontifications.

```````````````````````````````
Self Reflection?

r

[robek]

Post by k***@yahoo.com
Some of these 'scattered minds' have already gone on to make
digital images of this particular Honzon where they have even gone as
far as introducing deletions or additions.

````````````````````````````````````````````
Not sure what you mean?

r

[wgjewel]

I like this post kokumei.... you just about said it all.
Get back you wild egos....back..back!!!!
.I wonder if Don Ross would let you post it on his site....!!!!
I mean.. he has a dancing Snoopy....why not a truthful medicinal
post.!!!
Give them the antidote for the poison they have enthusiastically and
continually consumed.
"We are setting the Gohonzon free!!!"Aren't we cool!!!!No, don't
worry it's all good!"
They say... "See nothing happened to me....just drink the
poison....it's all good...it won't hurt you if you don't believe it
will."
How about a skull and crossbones warning label on some of the
sites....Poison! Do not drink!!
d

[marcinmd]

What does this strange idea actually mean? Which Temple has made this
amazing Honzon available? <<

FYI..That particular Gohonzon is copied out of the Gohonzon Shu
catalogue. Most people don't realized two things about it.
One is that is most likely wasn't really inscribed by Nichiren. There
are two Gohonzons in that catalogue that are there by error, the so
called "Prayer Gohonzon" is one of them. That is pretty funny because
the whole sales pitch was that you were getting a Nichiren inscribed
Gohonzon but these guys inadvertently picked the one that wasn't. MYHO,
neh?

Second, the group that offer the Gohonzon Shu is called the "Rissho
Ankoku Kai." They have a nasty history of extreme Japanese Nationalism
and anti-Semitism.

Nice work guys...

[robek]

Post by k***@yahoo.com
What does this strange idea actually mean? Which Temple has made this
amazing Honzon available? <<
FYI..That particular Gohonzon is copied out of the Gohonzon Shu
catalogue. Most people don't realized two things about it.
One is that is most likely wasn't really inscribed by Nichiren. There
are two Gohonzons in that catalogue that are there by error, the so
called "Prayer Gohonzon" is one of them. That is pretty funny because
the whole sales pitch was that you were getting a Nichiren inscribed
Gohonzon but these guys inadvertently picked the one that wasn't. MYHO,
neh?
Second, the group that offer the Gohonzon Shu is called the "Rissho
Ankoku Kai." They have a nasty history of extreme Japanese Nationalism
and anti-Semitism.
Nice work guys...

```````````````````````````````````
wrong on both accounts. see above.

[marcinmd]

wrong on both accounts. see above. <<

I didnt see anything "above" please repost.

Here is what I know about that Gohonzon.

I have a close friend whose niche is arcane information on Nichiren
Buddhism. He is far better trained than most people. He was a direct
student of Senchu Murano. He lived with Rev. Murano in Japan in his
little retirement temple, worked in his office and help the old guy
around in his last few years.

When that "Prayer Gohonzon" was being propagated by Bruce Maltz and Don
Ross (Bruce was actually the one who picked it out of the book), my
buddy recognized it as one of the two Gohonzons in the Gohonzon Shu
that were likely not authentic. Until that point, like most people, I
didn't know that there was a question about any of them.

Not leaving just to my friends word, I pursued the issue. I had it
looked at by the Head of the Honmon Butsuryu Seminary in Osaka. He went
through with me all the arcane details of why that Gohonzon is
suspicious. Granted, these details are really arcane, but once you hear
them, it becomes clear why there is doubt about it. I certainly cant
recall all the criticisms, but several of the issues had to do with
some things on the Mandala don't fit the date. Nichiren's Gohonzons
evolved in certain ways and there are many inconsistencies on that one.
That's what I know.

As far as the Rissho Koku Kai being an extremist Nationalist Group,
they certainly were. I appreciate that they have clean up since World
War Two, but you need to understand that Extreme Nationalists have
often taken up Nichirenism for rather unwholesome purposes. It is a
well know subset of Nichiren Buddhism.

Btw..Both Don and Bruce were warned about this . They didnt care.

[robek]

Don's PG was not even scanned from the book. Murano gave it to him.

The 'odd things' you mention. I know what those are. The same odd
things are seen on other pre 1978 Honzon & Mandalas.

One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that,

You admit you do not even know. So you are a tool? The Prayer Gohonzon
& the Nissho Dai Mandara Reverend K issued are kept at the same Niisso
Temple.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
How Senchu Murano secretly shook the SGI at its core in his Very Last
Years From: Don Ross
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT)

"Upon reflection after reading Ryuei's article and
my response, I have decided that it is time for revelations. What has
remain unwritten and rarely spoken, should now be put in writing."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GohonzonForum/message/4392

[Yelps]

Post by robek
Don's PG was not even scanned from the book. Murano gave it to him.
The 'odd things' you mention. I know what those are. The same odd
things are seen on other pre 1978 Honzon & Mandalas.
One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that,
You admit you do not even know. So you are a tool? The Prayer Gohonzon
& the Nissho Dai Mandara Reverend K issued are kept at the same Niisso
Temple.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
How Senchu Murano secretly shook the SGI at its core in his Very Last
Years From: Don Ross
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
"Upon reflection after reading Ryuei's article and
my response, I have decided that it is time for revelations. What has
remain unwritten and rarely spoken, should now be put in writing."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GohonzonForum/message/4392

Its all very pitiful.Murano did a good tranlation of the Kaimokuy Sho back
in the fifties, but his Lotus Sutra translation was poor. it glosses over
meaning. Later Murano became obsessed with the Gakkai's sucess and spent
the rest of his days trying to tear it down. Pure unadulterated jealousy.
It is his fault pinheads began posting Gohonzons on the internet.

dc

[marcinmd]

Its all very pitiful.Murano did a good tranlation of the Kaimokuy Sho
back
in the fifties, but his Lotus Sutra translation was poor. it glosses
over
meaning. <<<

LOL..Right..Like youre qualified to judge...


Later Murano became obsessed with the Gakkai's sucess and spent
the rest of his days trying to tear it down. <<<

In my own dealings with him and in my long time association with his
direct student who I mentioned before, the subject of the Gakkai never
really came up.
I think you are just taking partisan pot shots over matters you really
no nothing about.

Pure unadulterated jealousy. <<

You certainly don't have to be "jealous" to object to the Soka Gakkai.
Don't forget, they went around beating up Priests from other Nichiren
sects, disrupting their meetings, shouting down speakers etc. It left
them with a really bad reputation not to even mention their weird
twisting Nichiren's Buddhism.

It is his fault pinheads began posting Gohonzons on the internet. <<

The Nichiren Shu did not endorse in any way shape or form the
downloading of Mandala's from the Internet and you know it. In fact,
you check you will find that they condmn it.

[marcinmd]

How Senchu Murano secretly shook the SGI at its core in his Very Last
Years From: Don Ross <<<


Well, that is all very interesting.... Understand that I have no dog in
this fight at all.
But my observation is that you are relying on several people who have
highly charged personal and political agenda's. The Bruce Maltz,
Michael McCormick filter is not one you should take as good coin.

Now I never was part of Murano's faction and in fact, I converted the
man who was his direct student away from the Nichiren Shu. I was in the
faction around Graham Lamont who thought of all the players mentioned
as corrupted by personal ambitions.

Maltz is certainly a nut case par excellence. His manipulations of
Murano in his dotage were sad and cruel. But I don't believe the
Nichiren Shu endorses downloading Gohonzons. That is simply too far
fetched. But I don't doubt that Bruce was involved in all kinds of
sleazy dealings and I dont trust McCormick's version of events either.
He also has a complicated agenda.

Bottom line for me is. Old business... I no longer care. I wish
everyone well and good luck

[marcinmd]

One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that, <<

Yes...Thanks... I think those were the issues.. But then how do you
know that these problems are just a confusion? What then trumps these
inconsistencies and proves it is authentic? Just because a Gohonzon
still exists and is kept at a respectable Temple, does make it
authentic.... I think the point is that this Gohonzon has been
considered authentic but may not be because of the inconsistencies you
mentioned... Wouldn't it then be better to avoid it and use a Mandala
free of questions?

Lets not forget the low minded reasons Bruce picked that Gohonzon. He
was all about "sales." He picked it out because it was the most exotic
looking Gohonzon in the book and for no other reason. He thought it
would sell. He was also pushing the idea that a Gohonzon that was
inscribed by Nichiren was somehow "more powerful" which is a totally
heretical notion.

Now if he was able to manipulate Murano into sending Ross a clean copy,
that does not at all mean that Murano understood what was going on and
does not at all mean that Murano thought it was authentic. In fact, my
friend said he pointed out to him that very Gohonzon as being
suspicious... OR... Murano slipped a Mickey into the mix, knowing he
was providing a Gohonzon that was not clearly authentic......

[robek]

Post by robek
One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that, <<
Yes...Thanks... I think those were the issues.. But then how do you
know that these problems are just a confusion?

```````````````````````````````````````````````
Because ALL of the Dai Mandara prior to 1278 have those. Do you want me
to list them? Here are some pix of examples:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Niti/013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Niti/011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Niti/Mandala042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Mandala016_Hota.jpg

r

[marcinmd]

Because ALL of the Dai Mandara prior to 1278 have those. Do you want me

to list them? Here are some pix of examples:


No thanks.. I have no capacity to judge. What I do know is that very
Senior Priests have looked at that particular Gohonzon and found
inconsistencies with it. Murano himself pointed to that Gohonzon as
problematic...That is good enough for me to add those doubts to the
long list of other reasons not to approve of the use of it.

[robek]

Post by robek
One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that, <<
Yes...Thanks... I think those were the issues.. But then how do you
know that these problems are just a confusion? What then trumps these
inconsistencies and proves it is authentic? Just because a Gohonzon
still exists and is kept at a respectable Temple, does make it
authentic.... I think the point is that this Gohonzon has been
considered authentic but may not be because of the inconsistencies you
mentioned... Wouldn't it then be better to avoid it and use a Mandala
free of questions?

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Dai Mandara of July 08 1273

http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000671.html#more

Loading Image...

Loading Image...'

"On July 8th, 1273, St. Nichiren, brushed the seven sacred characters
Na-mu Myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo down the center of a piece of silk material
measuring about two feet, six inches by five feet, eight inches." --
from Nichiren Shu

1273 July 8: Inscribes the first Mandala Gohonzon of the Ten Worlds, as
a symbol of the Lotus Sutra and object of worship. --from Timeline of
Nichiren's Life

"The first Mandala Honzon was revealed on July 8, 1273."-- The THREE
GREAT SECRET DHARMAS by Rev. Shokai Kanai

"On July 8 of that year, he wrote the Great Mandala for the first time"
"...the eighth day of the seventh month of 1273, ... is said to be the
date of his first writing of the Great Mandala, ..." -- Manual of
Nichiren Buddhism by Rev. Senchu Murano

While researching this mandala on line, I came across an anti-Kempon
Hokke hit piece. Loading Image...

Apparently, some ill informed Americans had viewed a traditional
painting at a Kempon Hokke Temple in Japan. They somehow saw this
painting; of Nichiren inscribing The Great Mandala of July 8 1273,

http://members.aol.com/myomanji/visit/ph-f.jpg

Post by robek
"It was titled, "Inscription of Dai-Mandala." From the picture, the
size of the Dai-Mandala can be estimated as 3 feet by 10 feet. Photo F: > The Inscription of the Dai-Mandala . This was not in Sado Island,
because several priests, all well dressed, were watching Nichiren
Daishonin who was writing the special Dai-Mandala with sumi-ink and a
brush."
"Needless to say, this is the illustration of the inscription of the Dai-> Gohonzon. (This is particularly important, because Bruce and other KHS
members have been writing that the Dai-Gohonzon in Taisekiji is a
fake.)"

Needless to say, they had not studied much history. At the time,
Nichiji, Hoki-bo Nikko, Sado-bo Niko, Shijo Kingo, and Nichiro had
arranged for Nichiren to be moved from the hut at Tsukuhara, to more
comfortable lodging; Kondo Kiyohisa's residence at Ichinosawato, near
Mano Bay, on the Sea of Japan. The former three were likely present for
the inscription itself. In addition, Lady Nichimyo had visited,
bringing gifts of silk, hemp paper, ink, and brushes. Also, by that
time, a number of Sado residents had converted.

Loading Image...

None of the three depicted above is the actual Great Mandala of July 8,
1273. That particular Great Mandala is apparenty authenticated, but
whoever holds it has declined to have it published. However, they are
very likely quite similar.

An astute observer will notice that, in the top row, there are 4
columns of characters flanking the Daimoku on each side, instead of
three. The extra pair represent the Emanation Buddhas and the Virtue
Buddhas of the Ten Directions.

On several of the original Nichiren mandalas, their names are as
follows:

Zentoku Nyorai (English: Buddha Good Virtue) The Virtue Buddha of the
Eastern direction. One of the Virtue Buddhas of the Ten directions from
the LS and the Tiantai Confessional. See The Buddhas of the Ten
Directions
http://www.tientai.net/teachings/dharma/buddha/10directions.htm"
and The Confessional Samadhi of the Lotus Sutra, page 9: Worshipping
the Buddhas. http://www.tientai.net/lit/hksmsg/HKSMSGtextD6.htm

Jippo Bunshin, representing all the Emanation Buddhas. Jippo: the ten
directions, east south, west, north, southeast, southwest, northeast,
northwest, up [zenith] and down [nadir]. Bunshin: limitless emanation
Buddha bodies

These appear, in the top row, on the Great Mandala Gohonzon{s} that
Nichiren wrote before 1278. Their exact position relative to the other
top row entries appears to vary. On this one, I think they appear to be
inserted between Jyogo and Meuhengyo, on the left, and Jogyo and
Anrugyo on rhe right,

The beautiful Gohonzon in the middle is Chikusan's Treasure from an
Antique Store.
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Gohonzon/CampRoss-ji-08.html

To view a large image hosted by the Coffehouse
Loading Image...

Inscriptions on Chikusan's Treasure include:

"12th day, 9th month, the 8th year of Bune'i (1271), Received the
sentence of Sado exile."

"8th day, 7th month, the 10th year of Bune'i (1273), I Nichiren
start, establish the nation."

Moreover, the proportional dimensions are identical to those described
above. Based on that, I have concluded that this represents the actual
Gohonzon Nichiren inscribed on that date. This does not mean it is the
original, nor even an exact duplicate. However, it is certainly the
best clue I have to what it looks like.

The one on the right is dated June 25 1273, just a month before.

As Don Ross recently explained, at the Tusker Sangha, and
GohonzonForum, there are thought to be three autheticated Nichiren
Gohonzon not in the Gohonzon Shu. One of these is Nichiren's Last
Gohonzon. If I am correct, that one is dated the sixth month of 1282?

As for the other two. Don wrote:

" To my knowledge, there are three known authenticated Nichiren
Gohonzons which have net yet been published in RAK's Gohonzon Shu.
...At least two of them are owned and used by Nichiren Shu. ... I don't
know the third, but the other Mandala I am aware is the sister Gohonzon
to the PG, the one inscribed with nearly the same inscription for
Nichiro in the same month as when the PG which was inscribed for
Nissho."

That leaves 1 more. That one more is very likely the Great Mandala of
July 8, 1273.

Finally, the Mandalas on your left is a version of one sold
commercially by Kaiundo.
http://home.earthlink.net/~kaiundo/images/4340.jpg I have a hunch it is
at least loosely based on the Great Mandala of the Ten Worlds inscribed
on July 8, 1273. Also, see Ernesto's comment below. That is an example
of how valuable reader input is on this topic. If you know something,
please share! Here is another version of that one:
Loading Image...

By the way, those who have the Nichiren Shoshu or Fuji style Daimandara
will notice there are also 4 top row columns on these. That is the not
the same. In that case, the 4th columns are to the outside of The
Bodhisattvas, and they are specific phrases from the Lotus Sutra.

<b>Revised from original entry dated April 26, 2005</b>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[robek]

Post by robek

Post by robek
One of these is Zentoku Nyorai and Emanation Buddhas in the top row,
Another is the location of the signature & seal. A feel who knew a
little, but not a lot, might be confused by that, <<
Yes...Thanks... I think those were the issues.. But then how do you
know that these problems are just a confusion? What then trumps these
inconsistencies and proves it is authentic? Just because a Gohonzon
still exists and is kept at a respectable Temple, does make it
authentic.... I think the point is that this Gohonzon has been
considered authentic but may not be because of the inconsistencies you
mentioned... Wouldn't it then be better to avoid it and use a Mandala
free of questions?

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Dai Mandara of July 08 1273
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000671.html#more
http://usera.imagecave.com/robek/icth_sad.JPG.jpg

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Post by robek
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/ozs.JPG'
"On July 8th, 1273, St. Nichiren, brushed the seven sacred characters
Na-mu Myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo down the center of a piece of silk material
measuring about two feet, six inches by five feet, eight inches." --
from Nichiren Shu
1273 July 8: Inscribes the first Mandala Gohonzon of the Ten Worlds, as
a symbol of the Lotus Sutra and object of worship. --from Timeline of
Nichiren's Life
"The first Mandala Honzon was revealed on July 8, 1273."-- The THREE
GREAT SECRET DHARMAS by Rev. Shokai Kanai
"On July 8 of that year, he wrote the Great Mandala for the first time"
"...the eighth day of the seventh month of 1273, ... is said to be the
date of his first writing of the Great Mandala, ..." -- Manual of
Nichiren Buddhism by Rev. Senchu Murano
While researching this mandala on line, I came across an anti-Kempon
Hokke hit piece. http://members.aol.com/myomanji/visit/ph-f.jpg

http://members.aol.com/myomanji/visit/fujufuse.htm

Post by robek
Apparently, some ill informed Americans had viewed a traditional
painting at a Kempon Hokke Temple in Japan. They somehow saw this
painting; of Nichiren inscribing The Great Mandala of July 8 1273,
http://members.aol.com/myomanji/visit/ph-f.jpg

Post by robek
"It was titled, "Inscription of Dai-Mandala." From the picture, the
size of the Dai-Mandala can be estimated as 3 feet by 10 feet. Photo F: > The Inscription of the Dai-Mandala . This was not in Sado Island,
because several priests, all well dressed, were watching Nichiren
Daishonin who was writing the special Dai-Mandala with sumi-ink and a
brush."
"Needless to say, this is the illustration of the inscription of the Dai-> Gohonzon. (This is particularly important, because Bruce and other KHS
members have been writing that the Dai-Gohonzon in Taisekiji is a
fake.)"

Needless to say, they had not studied much history. At the time,
Nichiji, Hoki-bo Nikko, Sado-bo Niko, Shijo Kingo, and Nichiro had
arranged for Nichiren to be moved from the hut at Tsukuhara, to more
comfortable lodging; Kondo Kiyohisa's residence at Ichinosawato, near
Mano Bay, on the Sea of Japan. The former three were likely present for
the inscription itself. In addition, Lady Nichimyo had visited,
bringing gifts of silk, hemp paper, ink, and brushes. Also, by that
time, a number of Sado residents had converted.

Loading Image...

Post by robek
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/0zaa.jpg

Loading Image...

Post by robek
None of the three depicted above is the actual Great Mandala of July 8,
1273. That particular Great Mandala is apparenty authenticated, but
whoever holds it has declined to have it published. However, they are
very likely quite similar.
An astute observer will notice that, in the top row, there are 4
columns of characters flanking the Daimoku on each side, instead of
three. The extra pair represent the Emanation Buddhas and the Virtue
Buddhas of the Ten Directions.
On several of the original Nichiren mandalas, their names are as
Zentoku Nyorai (English: Buddha Good Virtue) The Virtue Buddha of the
Eastern direction. One of the Virtue Buddhas of the Ten directions from
the LS and the Tiantai Confessional. See The Buddhas of the Ten
Directions
http://www.tientai.net/teachings/dharma/buddha/10directions.htm"
and The Confessional Samadhi of the Lotus Sutra, page 9: Worshipping
the Buddhas. http://www.tientai.net/lit/hksmsg/HKSMSGtextD6.htm
Jippo Bunshin, representing all the Emanation Buddhas. Jippo: the ten
directions, east south, west, north, southeast, southwest, northeast,
northwest, up [zenith] and down [nadir]. Bunshin: limitless emanation
Buddha bodies
These appear, in the top row, on the Great Mandala Gohonzon{s} that
Nichiren wrote before 1278. Their exact position relative to the other
top row entries appears to vary. On this one, I think they appear to be
inserted between Jyogo and Meuhengyo, on the left, and Jogyo and
Anrugyo on rhe right,
The beautiful Gohonzon in the middle is Chikusan's Treasure from an
Antique Store.
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Gohonzon/CampRoss-ji-08.html
To view a large image hosted by the Coffehouse
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Gohonzon/Chikusans-gohonzon.jpg
"12th day, 9th month, the 8th year of Bune'i (1271), Received the
sentence of Sado exile."
"8th day, 7th month, the 10th year of Bune'i (1273), I Nichiren
start, establish the nation."
Moreover, the proportional dimensions are identical to those described
above. Based on that, I have concluded that this represents the actual
Gohonzon Nichiren inscribed on that date. This does not mean it is the
original, nor even an exact duplicate. However, it is certainly the
best clue I have to what it looks like.
The one on the right is dated June 25 1273, just a month before.
As Don Ross recently explained, at the Tusker Sangha, and
GohonzonForum, there are thought to be three autheticated Nichiren
Gohonzon not in the Gohonzon Shu. One of these is Nichiren's Last
Gohonzon. If I am correct, that one is dated the sixth month of 1282?
" To my knowledge, there are three known authenticated Nichiren
Gohonzons which have net yet been published in RAK's Gohonzon Shu.
...At least two of them are owned and used by Nichiren Shu. ... I don't
know the third, but the other Mandala I am aware is the sister Gohonzon
to the PG, the one inscribed with nearly the same inscription for
Nichiro in the same month as when the PG which was inscribed for
Nissho."
That leaves 1 more. That one more is very likely the Great Mandala of
July 8, 1273.
Finally, the Mandalas on your left is a version of one sold
commercially by Kaiundo.
http://home.earthlink.net/~kaiundo/images/4340.jpg I have a hunch it is
at least loosely based on the Great Mandala of the Ten Worlds inscribed
on July 8, 1273. Also, see Ernesto's comment below. That is an example
of how valuable reader input is on this topic. If you know something,
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1081242/nitiren01.jpg
By the way, those who have the Nichiren Shoshu or Fuji style Daimandara
will notice there are also 4 top row columns on these. That is the not
the same. In that case, the 4th columns are to the outside of The
Bodhisattvas, and they are specific phrases from the Lotus Sutra.
<b>Revised from original entry dated April 26, 2005</b>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[marcinmd]

Dai Mandara of July 08 1273

http://www.fraughtwithperil.com<<

snip....

What on Earth are you trying to say...? Are you arguing for the
authenticity of the Ita Mandala. It's very hard to tell. Please explain
what it is that you are arguing for..Less smoke please.

[marcinmd]

Whoops, sorry... I see now. You are giving us the debate over the
questions about the So called Prayer Gohonzon.

I remain unmoved... I rely on the judgment of Rev. Murano and Rev,
Fukuoka who are professionals over the opinions of Ernesto and Don
Ross... They may be correct but the subject is far too arcane for me...
The "Prayer Gohonzon" remains a scam propagated by people with
unwholesome intentions, authentic or not...

[robek]

Post by marcinmd
Whoops, sorry... I see now. You are giving us the debate over the
questions about the So called Prayer Gohonzon.
I remain unmoved... I rely on the judgment of Rev. Murano and Rev,
Fukuoka who are professionals over the opinions of Ernesto and Don
Ross... They may be correct but the subject is far too arcane for me...
The "Prayer Gohonzon" remains a scam propagated by people with
unwholesome intentions, authentic or not...

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
So because Lamont dislikes Maltz; that justifies shading the truth? And
claiming to have arcane knowlege that is over the heads of
non-academics?

You say a Gohonzon is bad because your mentor does not like Maltz. That

is more "WHO" is right, rather than 'WHAT' is right. The same thinking
is used by jealous priests.

You even have your facts all jumbled up. You do not know anything about
how Ross obtained & distributed the PG, And odd that Nichiren Shu has
distributed a Honzon with the same 'dubious' entries -- Zentoku Nyorai
& Jippo Bunshin.

BTW; Some KH Priest was recently shown a copy of the Soseino Amulet and

asserted Nichiren would never inscribe that. Actually there are 13 of
them in Nichiren's hand kept at Tanjo-ji. This is a copy dated to the
14th - 16th C., signed by a Hokke Shu Priest:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Niti/Soseinobw.jpg

There are actually several hundred unpublished Nichiren Mandalas.

r

[Yelps]

Post by robek

Post by marcinmd
Whoops, sorry... I see now. You are giving us the debate over the
questions about the So called Prayer Gohonzon.
I remain unmoved... I rely on the judgment of Rev. Murano and Rev,
Fukuoka who are professionals over the opinions of Ernesto and Don
Ross... They may be correct but the subject is far too arcane for me...
The "Prayer Gohonzon" remains a scam propagated by people with
unwholesome intentions, authentic or not...

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
So because Lamont dislikes Maltz; that justifies shading the truth? And
claiming to have arcane knowlege that is over the heads of
non-academics?
You say a Gohonzon is bad because your mentor does not like Maltz. That
is more "WHO" is right, rather than 'WHAT' is right. The same thinking
is used by jealous priests.
You even have your facts all jumbled up. You do not know anything about
how Ross obtained & distributed the PG, And odd that Nichiren Shu has
distributed a Honzon with the same 'dubious' entries -- Zentoku Nyorai
& Jippo Bunshin.
BTW; Some KH Priest was recently shown a copy of the Soseino Amulet and
asserted Nichiren would never inscribe that. Actually there are 13 of
them in Nichiren's hand kept at Tanjo-ji. This is a copy dated to the
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/robbeck/Niti/Soseinobw.jpg
There are actually several hundred unpublished Nichiren Mandalas.
r

Pinhead vs. Pinhead along the Gurkian Way......

UGH. Forget about it.

dc

[robek]

Loading Image...

[marcinmd]

So because Lamont dislikes Maltz; that justifies shading the truth? And

claiming to have arcane knowlege that is over the heads of
non-academics? <<

Well..to say that the problem is some run of the mill dislike of Maltz
by Lamont shows youre ignorant of the players and their history ...
There is faaaaaar more involved than that when it comes to Maltz.

Are you his new buddy? I can introduce you to a few of his past buddies
and they will all warn you off. He's a crook and grifter and has been
tossed out of or kept out of just about every sect you can name (and
few you cant) for malfeasants....

Post by robek
You even have your facts all jumbled up. You do not know anything about

how Ross obtained & distributed the PG, And odd that Nichiren Shu has
distributed a Honzon with the same 'dubious' entries -- Zentoku Nyorai
& Jippo Bunshin. <<

That means nothing. The Nichiren Shu has no monolithic dogma. Their
Priests have independence when it comes to doctrine and practices. Some
are good, some are totally out of the box. They also have a Temple
dedicated to the "Monkey King." That does not make it kosher.

There is no reason for any sort of do it yourself Nichiren Buddhism
with unconsecrated Gohonzons downloaded from the Internet and
propagated by a well known con-man... But knock yourself out...
Association with Maltz is your punishment..He will wack you sooner or
later...

Btw..never send him any money... Trust trust me on that much :)

[robek]

Post by robek
So because Lamont dislikes Maltz; that justifies shading the truth? And
claiming to have arcane knowlege that is over the heads of
non-academics? <<
Well..to say that the problem is some run of the mill dislike of Maltz
by Lamont shows youre ignorant of the players and their history ...
There is faaaaaar more involved than that when it comes to Maltz.
Are you his new buddy? I can introduce you to a few of his past buddies
and they will all warn you off. He's a crook and grifter and has been
tossed out of or kept out of just about every sect you can name (and
few you cant) for malfeasants....

Post by robek
You even have your facts all jumbled up. You do not know anything about

how Ross obtained & distributed the PG, And odd that Nichiren Shu has
distributed a Honzon with the same 'dubious' entries -- Zentoku Nyorai
& Jippo Bunshin. <<
That means nothing. The Nichiren Shu has no monolithic dogma. Their
Priests have independence when it comes to doctrine and practices. Some
are good, some are totally out of the box. They also have a Temple
dedicated to the "Monkey King." That does not make it kosher.
There is no reason for any sort of do it yourself Nichiren Buddhism
with unconsecrated Gohonzons downloaded from the Internet and
propagated by a well known con-man... But knock yourself out...
Association with Maltz is your punishment..He will wack you sooner or
later...
Btw..never send him any money... Trust trust me on that much :)

`````````````````````````````
I have never met Maltz. He appears to be off the radar. He was on one
of my groups for a while. He seemed a tad 'out there'. If I ever have
any dealings with him it will be on my terms.

On Lamont, I was disappointed by the misleading spin in some of his
material. I expect that from Maltz. Bruce is a salesman, not a scholar.


The most vital thing is to be honest, but forbearing. We are all fools,
liars, & idiots, but that is okay. We can reform.

If I were you, I would stop trashing the PG. But it is your Karma.

It is time to reaxamine everything. You are still attached to outdated
second hand information.


"unconsecrated Gohonzons"

Now who is promoting esoteric transmissions? What does the Kaigen do?
Ionize the molecules?

metta,

robin

http://www.fountain-international.org/contributions/009.htm

[marcinmd]

On Lamont, I was disappointed by the misleading spin in some of his
material. <<

I think it's a damned if you damned if you dont situation. If you are a
scholar who does not practice the mob takes shots for you for that. If
you are a scholar who does practice, they sneer that you are partisan.

On the other hand, if you think he has made some textual errors in
translation then you ought to bring that up with him. His credentials
are impeccable. You have never mentioned what yours are.

It is time to reaxamine everything. <<

I think not..but feel free

You are still attached to outdated <<

"unconsecrated Gohonzons" <<


Now who is promoting esoteric transmissions? What does the Kaigen do?
Ionize the molecules?

Hmmm..Then you are a materialist of some sort? That explains alot.. I'd
be happy to discuss this with you if you want. I was traind to perform
the Kaigen Kuyo... Very few Americans ( None living that I know of) can
say that. Had I stayed another year or so, I would have been authorized
to do it.


second hand information.


Like? I'm not a mind reader

If I were you, I would stop trashing the PG. But it is your Karma<<

I'll work on once you let me know what "PG" stands for.

metta, <<

But you posts seems to indicate a rather large chip on your shoulder. I
dont see much Metta?

[d***@netscape.net]

Post by marcinmd
But you posts seems to indicate a rather large chip on your shoulder.

Et tu, Marcus.

Derek Juhl

[marcinmd]

Et tu, Marcus.

Derek Juhl


Yes..If I start signing my posts with "Metta" then you are authorized
to call me on it..

[d***@netscape.net]

Post by marcinmd
Yes..If I start signing my posts with "Metta" then you are authorized
to call me on it..

You're a Christian. Aren't forgiveness, compassion and humility basic
Christian teachings?

Derek Juhl

[marcinmd]

You're a Christian. Aren't forgiveness, compassion and humility basic
Christian teachings?

Derek Juhl <<


Helping people avoid evil is a form of compassion.. No?

[d***@netscape.net]

Helping people avoid evil is a form of compassion.. No?

The end does not justify the means, and in any case, your premise is
false.

Marc's M.O.:

1. Engage in personal attacks
2. Set up straw arguments
3. Use red herrings
4. Ignore posts which refute his claims
5. When reminded that his claims have been refuted, demand that the
posts be reposted
6. Play victim
7. Declare himself winner of the debate
9. Threaten his perceived enemies with Hell
10. Repeat ad nauseam

"With Marc it is always the other guy who is at fault. Marc will say
and do anything to make people believe that. But his basic problem is
that while he is more clever than Bruce Maltz, his MO is substantially
the same. He tries to build himself up by tearing others down. Snipe
comments and put downs, lies and misdirection. Comments which may not
seem really nasty initially, upon closer inspection are seen to
trivialize of denigrate the other party. Marc is very good at this."
John Petry, ARBN 2/26/00

"In Marc's world he is innocent of all negative action and is the
victim of other people's vicious attacks. He is also the person who has
consistently shown here that he does regularly distort other people's
views and engage in the type of personal diatribe he accuses others of
using." John Petry, ARBN 2/24/01

Derek Juhl

[robek]

Post by marcinmd
But you posts seems to indicate a rather large chip on your shoulder. I
dont see much Metta?

```````````````````
You see that. Not everyone does. Mostly those whose sacred cows are
challenged by me use that retort.

r

[marcinmd]

You see that. Not everyone does. Mostly those whose sacred cows are
challenged by me use that retort. <<

Dude.. I just met you and already you were calling me a"Tool"...

Try keeping the personal insults out of your first couple of
interatcions with people and the "Metta" salutation may sit better.
There is plenty of time for name calling later on once everyone is
introduced .

[robek]

Post by marcinmd
Hmmm..Then you are a materialist of some sort? That explains alot.. I'd
be happy to discuss this with you if you want. I was traind to perform
the Kaigen Kuyo... Very few Americans ( None living that I know of) can
say that. Had I stayed another year or so, I would have been authorized
to do it.

````````````````````````
Nichiren Shu has three I know of. I see it as a formality.

r

[Michael Cody]

Post by robek

Post by marcinmd
Hmmm..Then you are a materialist of some sort? That explains alot.. I'd
be happy to discuss this with you if you want. I was traind to perform
the Kaigen Kuyo... Very few Americans ( None living that I know of) can
say that. Had I stayed another year or so, I would have been authorized
to do it.

````````````````````````
Nichiren Shu has three I know of. I see it as a formality.
r

None of them are valid, especially Strumpf's. You, of course, see it as a
formality so you can justify printing your own mandalas. Without the
Lineage, an eye opening ceremony is worthless. Your mandalas are worthless.
Your research is worthless. Your humility is non existent and your arrogance
knows no bounds. In fact, you are trying to destroy Buddhism.

Cody

[marcinmd]

None of them are valid, especially Strumpf's. You, of course, see it as
a
formality so you can justify printing your own mandalas. Without the
Lineage, an eye opening ceremony is worthless. Your mandalas are
worthless.
Your research is worthless. Your humility is non existent and your
arrogance
knows no bounds. In fact, you are trying to destroy Buddhism.

Cody <<

Except Nichiren Shoshu members cant provide any evidence that Nichiren
established Kechymaku (Blood Lineage).. Whenever they are challenged on
this point, all they cough up are statements that "Priests are Good"..
That is hardly evidence of an Esoteric Blood Transferr Dogma...

PLUS the whole thing collapses once you understand that there is no
real possibility that Nikko was Nichiren's sole heir. The whole thing
is a non-starter

One reason the SGI was so grossed out by the Kaigen was the bizarre and
careless manner in which Taisekiji performed it..so they threw out the
baby and the bath water.

No Taisekiji consecration is valid because it is performed within the
context of heresy. The Kaigen "reads in" the Lotus Sutra into a
Mandala. If the person performing it rejects the Lotus Sutra as merely
provisional, lost it power in Mappo and one of half a dozen writings,
as Taisekiji claims.. Then the whole exercise is rather worthless.

[robek]

Post by robek

Post by marcinmd
Hmmm..Then you are a materialist of some sort? That explains alot.. I'd
be happy to discuss this with you if you want. I was traind to perform
the Kaigen Kuyo... Very few Americans ( None living that I know of) can
say that. Had I stayed another year or so, I would have been authorized
to do it.

````````````````````````
Nichiren Shu has three I know of. I see it as a formality.
r

```````````````````````
It reminds me of ceremonial majick. I do not see it as a bad thing. I
harbor some superstitious notions. I think if this is done, it should
be with the recipient present. I think it effects the people more than
the inanimate object. The idea of empowering people to do this seems
shingon-esque.

r

[Michael Cody]

Post by robek

Post by robek

Post by marcinmd
Hmmm..Then you are a materialist of some sort? That explains alot.. I'd
be happy to discuss this with you if you want. I was traind to perform
the Kaigen Kuyo... Very few Americans ( None living that I know of) can
say that. Had I stayed another year or so, I would have been authorized
to do it.

````````````````````````
Nichiren Shu has three I know of. I see it as a formality.
r

```````````````````````
It reminds me of ceremonial majick. I do not see it as a bad thing. I
harbor some superstitious notions. I think if this is done, it should
be with the recipient present. I think it effects the people more than
the inanimate object. The idea of empowering people to do this seems
shingon-esque.
r

You don't have to explain your ignorance. It's obvious.

Cody

[Mark P.]

Post by robek
It reminds me of ceremonial majick.

There is no magic in Buddhism. Everything is a cause, that is all.
Just sitting on your couch is a cause. Doing nothing is a cause. A
ceremony is a cause!

Post by robek
I harbor some superstitious notions.

Only because you don't understand the cause and effect.


Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

[Yelps]

Post by Mark P.

Post by robek
It reminds me of ceremonial majick.

There is no magic in Buddhism. Everything is a cause, that is all.
Just sitting on your couch is a cause. Doing nothing is a cause. A
ceremony is a cause!

Post by robek
I harbor some superstitious notions.

Only because you don't understand the cause and effect.
Mark Porter
"The mirror of our mind and the mirror of the Buddha's mind are in fact the same mirror."
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/

UGH to both sides of this little Discourse on "magicick"

dc

[marcinmd]

It reminds me of ceremonial majick. I do not see it as a bad thing. I
harbor some superstitious notions. I think if this is done, it should
be with the recipient present. I think it effects the people more than
the inanimate object. The idea of empowering people to do this seems
shingon-esque. <<

Rather than being "shingon-esque", your position is steeped in Western
Relativism, Humanism and Materialism... You can also toss in 19th
century notions of Utilitarianism... That was not the World View of a
13th century Buddhist monk. This is why much of Nichiren Buddhism in
it's original form does not compute with you... Youre not even
operating within the same basic paradigm as Nichiren.

[d***@netscape.net]

Post by marcinmd
Rather than being "shingon-esque", your position is steeped in Western
Relativism, Humanism and Materialism... You can also toss in 19th
century notions of Utilitarianism... That was not the World View of a
13th century Buddhist monk. This is why much of Nichiren Buddhism in
it's original form does not compute with you... Youre not even
operating within the same basic paradigm as Nichiren.

Nichiren Daishonin wasn't a Christian, either.

Marc Strumpf, ARBN 2/26/04:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and made man, and was
crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried,
and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and
ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And
he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead,
whose kingdom shall have no end.

"And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who
proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with, the Father and the
Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge
one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection
of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

---

Derek Juhl

[marcinmd]

Nichiren Daishonin wasn't an Atheist, either.

[d***@netscape.net]

Post by marcinmd
Nichiren Daishonin wasn't an Atheist, either.

http://www.nsglobalnet.jp/page/d_and_p/chapter_49.htm

The Doctrines and Practice of Nichiren Shoshu

Chapter 49
The Guardian Deities (Shoten Zenjin)

Nichiren Daishonin states in the Rissho ankoku ron:

All the people of today go against what is right and instead they align
themselves with evil. Because of this, the guardian deities have
forsaken the nation, and sages leave and never return. In their place,
evil demons have taken up residence. This has caused disasters and
calamities to come one after another. (Gosho, p. 234)

This means that in Mappo, the people are affected by heretical
teachings and twisted views. They become believers in erroneous Laws
and lose their respect for the True Law. Therefore, the "guardian
deities" (Shoten Zenjin) forsake the country, and the nation becomes
overwhelmed by "evil demons" causing disasters and calamities to arise.

This is known as the "Doctrine of the Ascent of the Guardian Deities to
the Heavens." This teaching, expounded by the Daishonin, explains that
because of the people's slander of True Buddhism, the guardian deities
who were empowered by the virtues of the True Law have returned to
their original lands and therefore stopped protecting the nation.

This teaching is quite different from what is taught in the Bible, in
the "Revelation of St. John the Divine." Christianity teaches that
demons are enemies of God and their lives are entirely different from
those of human beings.

Contrary to this concept in Christianity, Nichiren Daishonin's teaching
of the ascent of the guardian deities to the heavens expounds that the
causes of disasters and calamities in society are directly connected
with the faith of the people living in it. It is a warning that the
gathering together of many people with evil minds will negatively
influence the entire society.

In primitive ages, people regarded gods as the spirits or souls of the
mountains, the sea, the sun or the stars. The God in monotheistic
religions was recognized as a special existence with mysterious powers
and functions beyond understanding. There are many phenomena in the
world of nature whose causes and effects are beyond the understanding
of common mortals. In ancient times, the Japanese people were
especially awed by the mysterious powers of nature. They considered it
the work of gods, and they showed appreciation and deep respect for the
blessings of nature such as food, beautiful scenery, and mild climate.

In the light of the teachings of Buddhism, the sky, the sea, the wind,
plants, animals and all that have life on the earth are endowed with
the power and ability to maintain the existence of the entire universe,
by affecting each other and keeping each other in balance. This power
invariably functions in accordance with the Law that is called the Law
of nature, or the truth.

The Daishonin wrote in the "Letter to Hojo Tokimune":

Ours is a nation of the gods. The deities cannot be nourished by a lack
of propriety. (omission)...The Lotus Sutra has nourished them, and they
have been empowered by the truth. (Gosho, p. 371)

In this passage, the "Lotus Sutra" signifies the Entity of the Law of
Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
The Daishonin expounds that the guardian deities are nourished by the
Mystic Law, the ultimate Truth. It is their energy source and their
sustenance. They are empowered to function as protective deities by the
honest and reasonable behavior of human beings.

Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, because of the time, capacity of the
people and sequence of propagation, the fundamental Law of
Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo should be widely upheld. This is the only Law which
will protect the tranquility of the country and lead the people to the
supreme life condition.

In the "Peaceful Practices" (Anrakugyo-14th) and "Entrustment"
(Zoku-rui-22nd) Chapters of the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha proclaimed that
in the age of Mappo, Myoho-Renge-Kyo, alone, should be propagated. He
further instructed that all guardian deities should swear to protect
the votaries who believe and uphold the Lotus Sutra.

During the first prayer of morning Gongyo, we recite the sutra and
chant the Daimoku towards the east. Facing east, the direction from
which the sun rises, means that we recite the sutra in the direction of
Dainittenno who symbolizes the sun. Dainittenno is our visible
representative of the guardian deities. By so doing we offer to the
guardian deities the flavor of the Law. It is the nourishment that they
savor.

Twenty-sixth High Priest Nichikan Shonin states in the "Exegesis on
'Repaying Debts of Gratitude'":

All the Buddhas of the Three Existences and the ten directions and all
guardian deities such as Daibontenno, Dainittenno and Daigattenno
become finally integrated into the inner enlightenment of the Buddha of
Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom. (Mondan shu, p. 395)

Nichikan Shonin teaches that the origin of the guardian deities is one
with the life of the True Buddha of Kuon ganjo, Nichiren Daishonin. In
other words, the protective powers of the guardian deities come from
the power of the True Buddha. The Daishonin stated:

When you long to see Nichiren, look up at the rising sun in the morning
and the rising moon in the evening. My presence shall be sensed anytime
as a floating shadow projected in the sun and the moon. (Gosho, p. 740)


Let's feel deep appreciation for the guardian deities and their
protective function as we chant the Daimoku facing east at the
beginning of morning Gongyo each day.

Copyright 2003-2004 Nichiren Shoshu Overseas Bureau. All Rights
Reserved.

---

Derek Juhl

[marcinmd]

Nichiren Shu has three I know of. I see it as a formality. <<


Three Americans? Okay..I am out of the loop..

Well, if you see it as a formality, then you are not in accord with
Nichiren and if you are asking my opinion (within the context that I
really don't care all that much)..you are playing around with things
that you may not fully appreciate.

I think downloading unconsicrated Gohonzons from the Internet is
foolish and dangerous...and totally unnecessary.

Your point that the Kaigen is rather Esoteric is well taken. But it is
one thing to say that Nichiren Buddhism is not a form of Esoteric
Buddhism and quite another to deny that there are one or two issues
that he thought of as a delicate matter and reserved for those who
were qualified. No one says "enlightenment" is based on Esoteric
practices. But the handling of a Mandala is also not to be taken so
lightly.

From what I can tell the "Independent Movement" is neither.. It's not a

Movement and is essentially the World View of the Soka Gakkai minus the
Soka Gakkai... So what?

[robek]

Post by marcinmd
wrong on both accounts. see above. <<
I didnt see anything "above" please repost.
Here is what I know about that Gohonzon.
I have a close friend whose niche is arcane information on Nichiren
Buddhism. He is far better trained than most people. He was a direct
student of Senchu Murano. He lived with Rev. Murano in Japan in his
little retirement temple, worked in his office and help the old guy
around in his last few years.
When that "Prayer Gohonzon" was being propagated by Bruce Maltz and Don
Ross (Bruce was actually the one who picked it out of the book), my
buddy recognized it as one of the two Gohonzons in the Gohonzon Shu
that were likely not authentic. Until that point, like most people, I
didn't know that there was a question about any of them.
Not leaving just to my friends word, I pursued the issue. I had it
looked at by the Head of the Honmon Butsuryu Seminary in Osaka. He went
through with me all the arcane details of why that Gohonzon is
suspicious. Granted, these details are really arcane, but once you hear
them, it becomes clear why there is doubt about it. I certainly cant
recall all the criticisms, but several of the issues had to do with
some things on the Mandala don't fit the date. Nichiren's Gohonzons
evolved in certain ways and there are many inconsistencies on that one.
That's what I know.
As far as the Rissho Koku Kai being an extremist Nationalist Group,
they certainly were. I appreciate that they have clean up since World
War Two, but you need to understand that Extreme Nationalists have
often taken up Nichirenism for rather unwholesome purposes. It is a
well know subset of Nichiren Buddhism.
Btw..Both Don and Bruce were warned about this . They didnt care.

````````````````````````````````````````````
BTW, who is the named recipient of the PG?

What arcane name of Indra did Stephanie mistakenly back-translate as
Sahasravalokitesvara?

You are a being a tool here Marc. Since you admit this is all above
your pay grade, why speculate? These things are not that hard to check
out.
Let your experts let me know what they have. I will get it out in the
open at FWP. Other experts read there.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
October 04, 2005
About the Gohonzon
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/

This has more links:

This was assembled in response to an inquiry:

Most of the Gohonzon Nichiren wrote, about 90 or so of the extant
ones, are the same basic style. This style is called the "Great
Mandala." All of these have the 'pretty much' the same inscriptions.
The Great Mandala {Dai Mandara} is what most of us chant to every
day.

The Fuji Gohonozon issued by Nichiren Shoshu are variations of the
Great Mandala. There is only a small difference in the top row. The
original two of these were dedicated to martyrs from the Fuji Area.
One of these is kept at Kitayama:
Loading Image...
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````
The SGI-Nichikan is an abbreviated Fuji Great Mandala, in that some
entries are omitted. Here is a map of the SGI Nichikan:
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gohonzon/meaning.htm
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
There are also some special Nichiren Honzon. These are different
images than the Great Mandala. The Prayer Gohonzon {PG}, for healing
illness, is one of those special purpose ones. This is available
through Independents and/or self service.

You can also look at a 'map' and see exactly what is written on the
prayer gohonzon:
Loading Image...
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Gohonzon/PGtranslation.html
```````````````````````````````````````````````````
The Daihonzon of 1274 is another 'special' one;
Map:
Loading Image...
Honzon:
Loading Image...
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Here are also maps of two of the standard 1280 Great Mandalas:
Nissho's
Loading Image...
Nichiren's
Loading Image...
````````````````````````````````````````````````
Nichiren 'standardized' the Great Mandala about 1278. The earlier
ones look a little different in the top row. There is no map, but
here are samples of an early 1273 style Great Mandala:
Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Feb. 15, 1277:
Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...
```````````````````````````````````````````````
Nichiren also wrote a number of simplified mandalas from 1271 to
1278. These can be as simple as the Daimoku alone, or the Daimoku
flanked by two Budddhas, or two Buddhas and the 4 BOE.
Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Loading Image...
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Here is a pictorial Gohonzon like the one Minbu Niko had painted at
Minobu about 1286:
Loading Image...
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Here are some pre-Nichiren Lotus Sutra honzon from ancient China:
Loading Image...

Loading Image...
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
There are 13 unpublished 'Soseino Amulets' for prolonging life kept
at Nichiren's Nativity Temple. These are dated from 1264-1267. Here
is a sample:
Loading Image...
``````````````````````````````````````````````````
There are also many unpublished mandalas dating back to 1253. This
is a wood block print from the 19 C. The original is said to be
dated 1254.
Loading Image...
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
On the PG:
I always thought that was a translation "typo." Another possible
translation snafu caused as stir as well:

19. Sengan Ten No (Sanskrit: Sahasrabhujavalokitesvara; English:
Thousand Eyed King of Heaven)

Sahasra-bhuja-avalokitesvara is a name of Kuan Yin, Sengan Kannon or
Senjukannon-bosatsu. Tib.: chagtong chentong)
http://www.artsbma.org/1000arms.htm
Senju (Sengan) Kanzeon - the Thousand Armed (& Thousand Eyed) Kanzeon
http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/jsp_b_and_other_deities.htm

Ten no should be Deva Rajah -- not avalokitesvara. Devaraja Sahasraksa
is a really obscure name of Indra.

Indra, also referred to as: Devaraja Maghavan Mahendra Pakasasana
Purandara Sahasraksa. Sahasranetra Sakra Satakratu Vajri Vasava " ...
http://tinyurl.com/c9g9x

Sengan Ten No is the usual position for Indra, opposite Brahma
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
The map of the Prayer Gohonzon lists Daibadatta Ten-no as a Heavenly
king in the upper right corner. However, I think it should read Jikoku
Ten-no. I always thought that was a translation "typo."
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````*
Zentoku Nyorai (English: Buddha Good Virtue) The Virtue Buddha of the
Eastern direction. One of the Virtue Buddhas of the Ten directions from
the LS and the Tiantai Confessional.
*Jippo Bunshin: Jippo: the ten directions, east south, west, north,
southeast, southwest, northeast, northwest, up [zenith] and down
[nadir].
Bunshin: limitless emanation Buddha bodies.

These Buddhas are inserted between the Two Buddhas and the BOE on a
number of the mandalas before 1278.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Conferment: Nissho, Sramana (Japanese: Shomon) of the Great Sun Country
of Japan

[marcinmd]

These things are not that hard to check
out. <<

And yet, you seem to refuse running your interpretation by Lamont?

Bottom line. I don't know who you are or what your qualifications are.
Without being able to check primary sources (above my pay grade) your
interpretations and verifiable by me.

I do know Lamont's qualifications. If you and he are at odds over some
arcane point, then I will stick with his version until you hash it out
with him or someone equally qualified.... The other times that people
who showed up on ARBN posing as scholars they were unable to get past
Lamont. Perhaps you have some point and are correct, Until you are
willing to do a bit of "peer review," I will not be buying it.

It's very simple to contact Lamont. Go to the Kempon Hokke web page and
get on their elist and then tell them that you would like to discuss.

[Cody]

Post by marcinmd
(above my pay grade)

And just the other week you were bragging about how much money you make.

Cody, still waiting.

[marcinmd]

And just the other week you were bragging about how much money you
make.

Cody, still waiting.
<<

Youre an idiot

[marcinmd]

You are a being a tool here Marc. Since you admit this is all above
your pay grade, why speculate? These things are not that hard to check
out. <<,

I cant read primary texts. I can understand the basic components of
Nichiren Buddhism ... You seem to have missed a few key points.

Oh and inundating people with tons of links is a sales trick... It's a
smoke screen for a bad case. Content and understanding is the thing,
not sheer quantity. Im not very impressed.

The so called Prayer Gohonzon is yet another cheap fraud. There has
been enough of that already. Nice work

1. It may not be authentic according to well educated Priests.
2. It was chosen because it looked exotic and therefor may sell.
3. It is too early a design. That is why no other sect uses such a
Gohonzon. Nichiren design evolved and it is best to use what he himself
saw as the complete Mandala if one is to use a ten realms Mandala
4. It is a personal Gohonzon drawn up for someone with an illness. It
is entirely inappropriate for general use. The only reason it is used
is for its exotic appearance.
5. Downloading a Gohonzon from the Internet and then using it
unconsicrated is "Hobo," a blasphemy against the Dharma.
6. Nichiren reserved his most dire warnings to people to avoid
unconsicrated Gohonzons
7. Anyone can get a Internet Gohonzon without the slightest evidence of
belief or agreement with Nichiren Buddhism. Once again, this is Hobo by
those responsible.
8. The person who decided to propagate this particular Gohonzon, Bruce
Maltz is of very questionable character. The malintent of the offering
taints the effect.
9. Such a Gohonzon may invite dire effects and ruin any chance a person
has for the salvic benefits of Nichiren's Buddhism.
10 There is no good reason to download a Gohonzon, especially one that
is dubious in its propriety and not properly consecrated. There is no
existent problem getting a Gohonzon properly bestowed and consecrated,
except if you are a miscreant which is why Bruce needed to avoid normal
channels and reinvent the wheel. No person needs to take a chance with
this Gohonzon when he or she can safely have a valid Gohonzon from a
variety of legitimate sources.
11. The other sales gimmick associated with this Gohonzon is that a
reproduction of a Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon was somehow better or
more powerful than other Gohonzons. This is contrary to any reasonable
understanding of Nichiren's intent and is considered an error by every
legitimate sect. The cheap salesmanship is degrading and false.

[robek]

Post by marcinmd
1. It may not be authentic according to well educated Priests.

````````````````````
phooey

Post by marcinmd
2. It was chosen because it looked exotic and therefor may sell.

Not. Carmen picked it out. Don wanted one because he had a faral
disease.

Post by marcinmd
3. It is too early a design. That is why no other sect uses such a
Gohonzon. Nichiren design evolved and it is best to use what he himself
saw as the complete Mandala if one is to use a ten realms Mandala

Contracts #1. Also; Honmon Shoshu issues one that was written in 1274.

That said, I prefer the Great Mandala for regular practice. And there
is an identical Prayer Gohonzon that Nichiren Shu uses for healing.

Post by marcinmd
4. It is a personal Gohonzon drawn up for someone with an illness. It
is entirely inappropriate for general use. The only reason it is used
is for its exotic appearance.

Contradicts #1. And the evidence is it and the other 1 or 2 identical
was intended for healing in general.

Post by marcinmd
5. Downloading a Gohonzon from the Internet and then using it
unconsicrated is "Hobo," a blasphemy against the Dharma.

`````````````````
phooey

Post by marcinmd
6. Nichiren reserved his most dire warnings to people to avoid
unconsicrated Gohonzons

```````````````````````
Not. Where?

Post by marcinmd
7. Anyone can get a Internet Gohonzon without the slightest evidence of
belief or agreement with Nichiren Buddhism. Once again, this is Hobo by
those responsible.

``````````````````````````
That is how it is.

Post by marcinmd
8. The person who decided to propagate this particular Gohonzon, Bruce
Maltz is of very questionable character. The malintent of the offering
taints the effect.

````````````````````````
phooey

Post by marcinmd
9. Such a Gohonzon may invite dire effects and ruin any chance a person
has for the salvic benefits of Nichiren's Buddhism.

``````````````````````
Like what happened to Don? Any evidence?

Post by marcinmd
10 There is no good reason to download a Gohonzon, especially one that
is dubious in its propriety and not properly consecrated. There is no
existent problem getting a Gohonzon properly bestowed and consecrated,
except if you are a miscreant which is why Bruce needed to avoid normal
channels and reinvent the wheel. No person needs to take a chance with
this Gohonzon when he or she can safely have a valid Gohonzon from a
variety of legitimate sources.

`````````````````````````````
You mean paying 200 bucks? Kaiundo is cheaper.

Post by marcinmd
11. The other sales gimmick associated with this Gohonzon is that a
reproduction of a Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon was somehow better or
more powerful than other Gohonzons. This is contrary to any reasonable
understanding of Nichiren's intent and is considered an error by every
legitimate sect. The cheap salesmanship is degrading and false.

``````````````````````````````
Non Sequitur. Nobody is selling them. Cheap salesmanship is charging
200 bucks.

r