The Magic Never-dying Tooth of Nichiren: and arbn poll

[honbutsu_n_u]

OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?

buddhist to the bone,

ntllct

[Kurt]

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?
buddhist to the bone,
ntllct

I've read about it in a couple books, talked to a couple folks who
actually saw it.
Seems to me that since Buddhism does encompass the Mystic Law, things
like this are possible.

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Kurt
Seems to me that since Buddhism does encompass the Mystic Law, things
like this are possible.

Kurt, what in the name of Tryatrimsha Heaven do you mean here? Do you
truly believe in supernatural occurances??? If Nichiren's personal
mojo was so freakin' strong that he could grow gum on his dead tooth
for 750 years, why doesn't he use the same mojo to move kozen rufu
ahead or at least boost temple membership??

ntllct

[Juanjo]

Like you think they will answer this?

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?
buddhist to the bone,
ntllct

[Mark P.]

Post by Juanjo
Like you think they will answer this?

Like you think you will answer where there is a basis in
Buddhism for six priests being equally in charge?


Mark Porter
"I spread this teaching because I too heard thus"

[LTCMARCINMD]

Like you think you will answer where there is a basis in
Buddhism for six priests being equally in charge?<

Er... It's called the Rokunai transfer document. It still exists.. It's in the
original.

Denial isnt just a river in Egypt

[atheramari]

The never dying feud between Marc and NST.

Marc, do you really think NST is going to listen to YOU?

GL man!!

D

[bridgett]

Post by atheramari
The never dying feud between Marc and NST.
Marc, do you really think NST is going to listen to YOU?
GL man!!
D

I have to ask:

Denise, do you really think NST is going to listen to you either? All
your posting here in arbnland what has it gotten you? I don't think
anyone here is listening to you now anymore than they did last year or
3 years ago.

Give it up girl............

Bridget

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Juanjo
Like you think they will answer this?

A few did. And several testified to their ready belief in the supernatural. Egads.

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Juanjo
Like you think they will answer this?

A few did. And several testified to their ready belief in the

supernatural. Egads.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
ntllct

How's the weather in Idaho?

Cody

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Cody
How's the weather in Idaho?

Don't have the weather channel ... and I'm in Washington.

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody
How's the weather in Idaho?

Don't have the weather channel ... and I'm in Washington.
ntllct

With and ISP in Idaho?

Cody

[yelps]

The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.

That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.

If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen Rufu
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would have
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a buddhist.


dc

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?
buddhist to the bone,
ntllct

[Brian]

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen Rufu
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would have
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a buddhist.
dc

You mean you don't believe in the Tooth fairy neither?

Brian

[RB]

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen Rufu
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would have
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a buddhist.
dc

But Nichiren Shoshu claims that the tooth has "living gum" tissue. Why would
such a honest Buddhist sangha such as Nichiren Shoshu lie about it? I still
think that they should clone Nichiren Daishonin with it.

THE
GROUP TOZAN
HANDBOOK
© 1998 NST
Myohoji Temple, 1401 North Crescent Heights Blvd.
West Hollywood, California 90046-3812 € [phone]
http://www.perltng.com/lotus/99.pdf

The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony
The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony usually takes place in the Kyakuden,
the same Temple where Ushitora Gongyo is conducted. As the believ-
ers in attendance chant Daimoku, the High Priest and attending priests
enter and proceed to open the large black lacquered chests. First, the
vessel holding the onikuge (Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)
is removed from the chest and placed on the altar

The Gosho Airing Ceremony

After each text is unrolled and shown to the believers in attendance,
it is taken to a table where several specially designated priests wearing
white gloves gently fan them to complete the airing-out process. Then,
as everyone chants Daimoku, the texts are rolled up and replaced in the
lacquer chests. Finally, the vessel holding the Daishonin¹s tooth and liv-
ing gum, and His three implements are replaced in the lacquer chests
to conclude the Gosho Airing Ceremony.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen Rufu
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would have
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a buddhist.
dc

But Nichiren Shoshu claims that the tooth has "living gum" tissue. Why would
such a honest Buddhist sangha such as Nichiren Shoshu lie about it? I still
think that they should clone Nichiren Daishonin with it.

Um, asshole, I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?

And, guess what, what you think doesn't matter.

Cody

Post by RB
THE
GROUP TOZAN
HANDBOOK
© 1998 NST
Myohoji Temple, 1401 North Crescent Heights Blvd.
West Hollywood, California 90046-3812 ? [phone]
http://www.perltng.com/lotus/99.pdf
The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony
The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony usually takes place in the Kyakuden,
the same Temple where Ushitora Gongyo is conducted. As the believ-
ers in attendance chant Daimoku, the High Priest and attending priests
enter and proceed to open the large black lacquered chests. First, the
vessel holding the onikuge (Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)
is removed from the chest and placed on the altar
The Gosho Airing Ceremony
After each text is unrolled and shown to the believers in attendance,
it is taken to a table where several specially designated priests wearing
white gloves gently fan them to complete the airing-out process. Then,
as everyone chants Daimoku, the texts are rolled up and replaced in the
lacquer chests. Finally, the vessel holding the Daishonin¹s tooth and liv-
ing gum, and His three implements are replaced in the lacquer chests
to conclude the Gosho Airing Ceremony.

[RB]

Post by yelps

Post by RB

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That

was

Post by RB

Post by yelps
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The

real

Post by RB

Post by yelps
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen

Rufu

Post by RB

Post by yelps
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would

have

Post by RB

Post by yelps
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a

buddhist.

Post by RB

Post by yelps
dc

But Nichiren Shoshu claims that the tooth has "living gum" tissue. Why

would

Post by RB
such a honest Buddhist sangha such as Nichiren Shoshu lie about it? I

still

Post by RB
think that they should clone Nichiren Daishonin with it.

Um, asshole, I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?

Nothing. I agree with Dave:

"If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen
Rufu and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would
have had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyone would have become a
Buddhist."

Post by yelps
And, guess what, what you think doesn't matter.
Cody

You should go smoke a bowl Cody, It will help you relax.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by yelps

Post by RB

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to .

That

Post by RB

Post by yelps
was

Post by RB

Post by yelps
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The

real

Post by RB

Post by yelps
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen

Rufu

Post by RB

Post by yelps
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would

have

Post by RB

Post by yelps
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a

buddhist.

Post by RB

Post by yelps
dc

But Nichiren Shoshu claims that the tooth has "living gum" tissue. Why

would

Post by RB
such a honest Buddhist sangha such as Nichiren Shoshu lie about it? I

still

Post by RB
think that they should clone Nichiren Daishonin with it.

Um, asshole, I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?

Nothing.

Figures.
Your copy and paste syndrome.

Post by RB
"If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen
Rufu and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would
have had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyone would have become a
Buddhist."

Yeah, right. Nichiren Shoshu's treasures are not open to scrutiny as they
are *treasures*. Kosen Rufu will not be attained through advertising but
through the practise. Making the tooth a fad is a stupid idea but when has
David The Great White Hope Cole come up with a good idea? I've seen it.
David hasn't and neither have you.

Post by RB

Post by yelps
And, guess what, what you think doesn't matter.
Cody

You should go smoke a bowl Cody, It will help you relax.

You should go fuck yourself. Craig's right, you're just a baiter and a
troll.

Plonk.

Cody

[RB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB
You should go smoke a bowl Cody, It will help you relax.

You should go fuck yourself. Craig's right, you're just a baiter and a
troll.
Plonk.
Cody

Spain must be dry right now, you seem a bit edgy. I'm sure that there are NA
meetings there. That may help.

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Cody
Um, asshole, I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?

While this note was not directly addressed to me, I would say the
following:

a). Nichiren never called anyone an "asshole" and your conduct
reflects as poorly on NS as the behavior of the other participants
here often does on their respective schools of Buddhism. Your conduct
is destructive to Nichiren's reputation in the world.

b). Twelve men swore that they had seen the Golden Tablets of the
angel Moroni given to Joseph Smith. By YOUR standard, we should
convert to Mormonism because some poor deluded soul says "I have seen
it."

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody
Um, asshole, I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?

While this note was not directly addressed to me, I would say the
a). Nichiren never called anyone an "asshole"

Actually, he called some people even worse things and called out for their
execution, asshole.

and your conduct

Post by honbutsu_n_u
reflects as poorly on NS as the behavior of the other participants
here often does on their respective schools of Buddhism. Your conduct
is destructive to Nichiren's reputation in the world.

Get off your holier than thou Christian soap box.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
b). Twelve men swore that they had seen the Golden Tablets of the
angel Moroni given to Joseph Smith. By YOUR standard, we should
convert to Mormonism because some poor deluded soul says "I have seen
it."
ntllct

Hey, believe what you want. You will anyway.

Cody

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Cody
Actually, he called some people even worse things and called out for their
execution, asshole.

You're a pathetic excuse for a Buddhist of any stripe. Your angry
nature dominates all good sense on your part and will just alienate
any valuable person of integrity who reads the slop that you post.

Post by Cody
and your conduct

Post by honbutsu_n_u
reflects as poorly on NS as the behavior of the other participants
here often does on their respective schools of Buddhism. Your conduct
is destructive to Nichiren's reputation in the world.

Get off your holier than thou Christian soap box.

Quit blackening the reputation of NS with your stoned-out, slanderous,
and irrational diatribes. Try to remember that when you are spewing
here, the results of your actions affect more than your own miniscule
reputation.

Post by Cody

Post by honbutsu_n_u
b). Twelve men swore that they had seen the Golden Tablets of the
angel Moroni given to Joseph Smith. By YOUR standard, we should
convert to Mormonism because some poor deluded soul says "I have seen
it."
ntllct

Hey, believe what you want. You will anyway.

Hey, are you afraid of logic and reason? Nichiren was not.

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody
Actually, he called some people even worse things and called out for their
execution, asshole.

You're a pathetic excuse for a Buddhist of any stripe. Your angry
nature dominates all good sense on your part and will just alienate
any valuable person of integrity who reads the slop that you post.

Is this your way of making friends? I'm not angry at all, btw. You are
projecting it seems, a common mistake on newsgroups.

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody
and your conduct

Post by honbutsu_n_u
reflects as poorly on NS as the behavior of the other participants
here often does on their respective schools of Buddhism. Your conduct
is destructive to Nichiren's reputation in the world.

Get off your holier than thou Christian soap box.

Quit blackening the reputation of NS with your stoned-out, slanderous,
and irrational diatribes. Try to remember that when you are spewing
here, the results of your actions affect more than your own miniscule
reputation.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody

Post by honbutsu_n_u
b). Twelve men swore that they had seen the Golden Tablets of the
angel Moroni given to Joseph Smith. By YOUR standard, we should
convert to Mormonism because some poor deluded soul says "I have seen
it."
ntllct

Hey, believe what you want. You will anyway.

Hey, are you afraid of logic and reason? Nichiren was not.
ntllct

Not at all. Tell me, hotshot, why is there gravity? Why do two masses
attract each other? Miracle?

Cody

[yelps]

And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?

Please.

Its just nonsense.

dc

Post by RB

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.
That is all.. It is still a relic of Nichiren Daishonin.
If the tooth was growing, and literally "alive," it would finance Kosen Rufu
and Stephan Hawking would be down there studying it. Carl Sagan would have
had it on the Cosmos TV special and everyonbe would have become a buddhist.
dc

But Nichiren Shoshu claims that the tooth has "living gum" tissue. Why would
such a honest Buddhist sangha such as Nichiren Shoshu lie about it? I still
think that they should clone Nichiren Daishonin with it.
THE
GROUP TOZAN
HANDBOOK
© 1998 NST
Myohoji Temple, 1401 North Crescent Heights Blvd.
West Hollywood, California 90046-3812 ? [phone]
http://www.perltng.com/lotus/99.pdf
The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony
The Gohonzon Airing Ceremony usually takes place in the Kyakuden,
the same Temple where Ushitora Gongyo is conducted. As the believ-
ers in attendance chant Daimoku, the High Priest and attending priests
enter and proceed to open the large black lacquered chests. First, the
vessel holding the onikuge (Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)
is removed from the chest and placed on the altar
The Gosho Airing Ceremony
After each text is unrolled and shown to the believers in attendance,
it is taken to a table where several specially designated priests wearing
white gloves gently fan them to complete the airing-out process. Then,
as everyone chants Daimoku, the texts are rolled up and replaced in the
lacquer chests. Finally, the vessel holding the Daishonin¹s tooth and liv-
ing gum, and His three implements are replaced in the lacquer chests
to conclude the Gosho Airing Ceremony.

[RB]

Post by yelps
And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?
dc

"I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?" -- Cody 8/24/04

Double-mint or Juicy Fruit?

[yelps]

Cody is an example of how superstition and nonsense is propagated by people
who have gang-think. Rational tbought takes a back seat. Similarly people
in the Gakkai had made all kinds of strange claims about special powers of
Ikeda, or other Nichiren sects with there literalized ideas about magic
water, or

There is a lowest common denominator of human retardation at play here.

I have never read any Priest discussing the tooth and actually claiming this
to be true, although there are priests who are just as dumb as superstitious
laypeople. Seeing Nichiren Daishonin's tooth on a pilgrimage is an act of
faith. Thinking it is alive and growing is group psychosis.



dc

Post by RB

Post by yelps
And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin¹s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?
dc

"I have seen it and it does indeed have a gum growing on it. Now
what do you have to say?" -- Cody 8/24/04
Double-mint or Juicy Fruit?

[Kurt]

Post by yelps
I have never read any Priest discussing the tooth and actually claiming this
to be true, although there are priests who are just as dumb as superstitious
laypeople. Seeing Nichiren Daishonin's tooth on a pilgrimage is an act of
faith. Thinking it is alive and growing is group psychosis.

I also have never read or heard any priest talk about the tooth. I
should ask...

[yelps]

The old wives tale was that the gum will grow to cover the whole tooth at
the time of Kosen Rufu.


Wherever the ROOT of this story came from, it must have been meant
metaphorically. If anyone expects to ever attract people to Buddhism, they
will have to put an end to utter nonsense like this literalism.


dc

Post by Kurt

Post by yelps
I have never read any Priest discussing the tooth and actually claiming this
to be true, although there are priests who are just as dumb as superstitious
laypeople. Seeing Nichiren Daishonin's tooth on a pilgrimage is an act of
faith. Thinking it is alive and growing is group psychosis.

I also have never read or heard any priest talk about the tooth. I
should ask...
--
To reply by email, replace the word "space" with "renault"

[Kurt]

Post by yelps
The old wives tale was that the gum will grow to cover the whole tooth at
the time of Kosen Rufu.
Wherever the ROOT of this story came from, it must have been meant
metaphorically. If anyone expects to ever attract people to Buddhism, they
will have to put an end to utter nonsense like this literalism.
dc

But it sure seems the only ones keeping this story alive are those up
here. (I know of very few members who are even aware of it, certainly
none of the newer ones, since the priests don't promote it)

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Kurt
But it sure seems the only ones keeping this story alive are those up
here. (I know of very few members who are even aware of it, certainly
none of the newer ones, since the priests don't promote it)

Priest most certainly DO promote it. It is part of the 1998 Tozan
handbook and cited elsewhere in official NS literature.

If you spent less time covering the priests' hind ends and more time
using your own considerable intellectual powers challenging this kind
of tripe, perhaps your temple would be a more vital and unified place
to practice the True Teaching, as opposed to this sort of
superstitious tripe. Where is your sense of integrity and truth?

ntllct

[LTCMARCINMD]

Priest most certainly DO promote it. It is part of the 1998 Tozan
handbook and cited elsewhere in official NS literature.<

They also tell people Nikko is buried at Taisekiji (MasterCard, Visa, AMEX)

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by yelps
The old wives tale was that the gum will grow to cover the whole tooth at
the time of Kosen Rufu.

Exactly. You win the Tootsie-pop!

Post by yelps
Wherever the ROOT of this story came from, it must have been meant
metaphorically. If anyone expects to ever attract people to Buddhism, they
will have to put an end to utter nonsense like this literalism.

I couldn't agree more. It is precisely the type of tripe that keeps NS
from making any headway in western society.

ntllct

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Kurt
I also have never read or heard any priest talk about the tooth. I
should ask...

oh hell, I've asked several and they always swear that it is true ...
although none of them have actually SEEN it (therefore I very much
doubt Cody's "testimony").

But what difference would a priest's opinion make, anyway, Kurt? If he
believed it, would it make it true? If he says so, would you believe
it on his testimony? Do you believe in supernatural occurences??

ntllct

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by yelps
Cody is an example of how superstition and nonsense is propagated by people
who have gang-think. Rational tbought takes a back seat. Similarly people
in the Gakkai had made all kinds of strange claims about special powers of
Ikeda, or other Nichiren sects with there literalized ideas about magic
water, or
There is a lowest common denominator of human retardation at play here.
I have never read any Priest discussing the tooth and actually claiming this
to be true, although there are priests who are just as dumb as superstitious
laypeople. Seeing Nichiren Daishonin's tooth on a pilgrimage is an act of
faith. Thinking it is alive and growing is group psychosis.

Proof positive that people CAN recover from intense psychedelic
overdose!! :)

IMHO, you're absolutely right. This is superstition and nonsense ...
but it is superstition and nonsense being actively promoted by
Nichiren Shoshu.

ntllct

[honbutsu_n_u]

And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin1s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?

I put this post out on arbn and have been a member in good standing of
Nichiren Shoshu for 36 years, Cole ... and I didn't need a half-pound
of psychedelics in my system to understand the profundity of "myo."

Frankly, I don't believe in this sort of superstitious nonsense
either, but wanted to challenge those NS, SGI, and Shoshinkai
believers here, whose respective schools of Buddhism DO claim this to
be true, to respond and put their cards on the table.

ntllct

[yelps]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin1s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?

I put this post out on arbn and have been a member in good standing of
Nichiren Shoshu for 36 years, Cole ... and I didn't need a half-pound
of psychedelics in my system to understand the profundity of

"myo."<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


'"Psychedelics" are endogenous in the brain (doesn't take Half a pound.).
Brain chemistry is responsible for mystical experience in the first place.
All initial, religious ideation is based on the use of visionary
plants--either intentitonal used or accidentally (such as with ergot
epidemics). All practices are in essense yogic concentration of focusing
the mind during visionary plant use.

The entire cosmology of ancient India, Egypt. Mesopotamian, Meso American,
Native American, antediluvial legend etc. derive from "Soma" "Amrita" Kanro,
Tsechufu, Manna etc.

The "soma" recipes involve the use of Lotus Plant (especially the "Sun
Lotus") , Mushrooms and other Fungi and thousands of other plants that cause
these most powerful experiences. Meditation alone is weak and in reality is
strictly preparatory to visionary plant use. Furthermore, without these
fundamental experiences, there is no loose cognitive mind able to break
conditioning--thus no disruptive force allows any patterning force. For
instance in the late sixites, many millions of westerners using entheogenic
substances suddenly became interested in eastern religion or western
gnosticism, as opposed to conditioned ideas of their previous institutional
religions..

The original cosmology is one of entheogenic experience and viewing the
world around them especially celestial objects and naming them and
experiencing oneness with all of it, during visionary plant use which
involves the Ego-death/rebirth experience. This is fundamental to all
primary religious thinking. For instance, 75% of the characters on the
Gohonzon are originally vedic and vedic refrs first to the Rg Veda and this
ancient hymnal writing is ABOUT soma ceremonies. Visisatcaritra (later to
appear in the Lotus Sutra) the chief of the seven sages in the Vedas, (who
are really anthropomorphicized stars in the big dipper which revolves around
the pole star, ) was given Soma by Indra who was the chief soma producer.
The sages mediatate and the soma was said to flow down from the storage tank
of the moon (soma) and into the big dipper ladel as then into the body of
the meditating sage.

To deny this is just as superstitious or literalized, as thinking that there
is a tooth with growing gum tissue on it or to believe in alien or divine
intervention.

dc

Post by honbutsu_n_u
Frankly, I don't believe in this sort of superstitious nonsense
either, but wanted to challenge those NS, SGI, and Shoshinkai
believers here, whose respective schools of Buddhism DO claim this to
be true, to respond and put their cards on the table.
ntllct<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by yelps
The tooth does not grow it is not alive. Nor is it supposed to . That was
an old wives tale, repeated in an old Gakkai book from the 60's. The real
story is that is didn't burn during the cremation.

You're dead wrong ... as often you are. Taisekiji still claims that
this tooth has the living gum of Nichiren growing on it and their
literature has made this claim a number of times right on into the
last decade and recent years. Others here on arbn have apparently
cited a reference or two for this, but having attended the
O-moshiburai Ceremony several times personally, I can tell you that
this is an expected part of Taisekiji orthodoxy.

ntllct

[Andy Hanlen]

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji? >>

LOL! What's to "believe in?" Sure, there's a tooth, and whatever is
said about it, it, like everything in this saha world, obeys natural
laws. Sure, it's a relic of Nichiren (or is said to be). What else?
Why is this question of any importance? Who cares?

Silly stuff. Back to lurking.

Andy Hanlen

Post by honbutsu_n_u
buddhist to the bone,
ntllct

[RB]

Post by Andy Hanlen

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji? >>

LOL! What's to "believe in?" Sure, there's a tooth, and whatever is
said about it, it, like everything in this saha world, obeys natural
laws. Sure, it's a relic of Nichiren (or is said to be). What else?
Why is this question of any importance? Who cares?
Silly stuff. Back to lurking.
Andy Hanlen

Loading Image...

I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually get
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.

http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Andy Hanlen

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji? >>

LOL! What's to "believe in?" Sure, there's a tooth, and whatever is
said about it, it, like everything in this saha world, obeys natural
laws. Sure, it's a relic of Nichiren (or is said to be). What else?
Why is this question of any importance? Who cares?
Silly stuff. Back to lurking.
Andy Hanlen

http://www.mworld.us/leap/image/The%20Simpsons/002.jpg
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually get
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.

Cody

[RB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB
http://www.mworld.us/leap/image/The%20Simpsons/002.jpg
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually

get

Post by RB
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.
Cody

Name calling. What a surprise.

LOL!

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
http://www.mworld.us/leap/image/The%20Simpsons/002.jpg
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually

get

Post by RB
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.
Cody

Name calling. What a surprise.
LOL!

Telling it like is ...

Cody

[Derek N.P.F. Juhl]

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Craig's right; you're just a troll.

Name calling. What a surprise.
LOL!

Guide to Trolling:

1. Post something outrageous to provoke a reaction
2. Play victim when people react

Derek Juhl

[CB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually

get

Post by RB
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.
Cody

They call him "Bob the baiter"


http://www.sg-eye.com
http://www.daisaku-ikeda.com
http://www.sokacult.com

[RB]

Post by CB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually

get

Post by RB
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.
Cody

They call him "Bob the baiter"

Ok, You guys go ahead and call me names if that is all that you have. How is
that showing actual proof of your practice?

Who's Buddhism do you practice anyway? Nichiren Buddhism? Nope!

In fact, Nichiren's writings clearly indicate that it was the Eternal
Shakyamuni Buddha of chapter 16 which he wanted people to regard as the
Gohonzon.

Maybe you think you are practicing Nikko Buddhism. Nope, can't be.

As for Nikko, it is clear from his writings as well that he regarded
Shakyamuni and not Nichiren as the true Buddha. In the "Hara dono gohenji"
he writes:

"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World [Saha] and if you rely instead on Amida Buddha and give
sole respect to Amida Buddha, then you will become a person who is guilty of
the five deadly sins; you will fall into the hell of interminable suffering
[Avichi Hell], isn't that true?"

And in the same letter he says of Shakyamuni Buddha that he is:

"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."

It is evident that Nikko himself revered the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha of
chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra as Nichiren Shonin himself taught.

You must be practicing Nikken Buddhism.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by CB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually

get

Post by RB
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.
http://www.amidabuddha.org/nobots/theteaching.html
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/hokke-idx.htm
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html

Craig's right; you're just a troll.
Cody

They call him "Bob the baiter"

Ok, You guys go ahead and call me names if that is all that you have. How is
that showing actual proof of your practice?
Who's Buddhism do you practice anyway? Nichiren Buddhism? Nope!
In fact, Nichiren's writings clearly indicate that it was the Eternal
Shakyamuni Buddha of chapter 16 which he wanted people to regard as the
Gohonzon.
Maybe you think you are practicing Nikko Buddhism. Nope, can't be.
As for Nikko, it is clear from his writings as well that he regarded
Shakyamuni and not Nichiren as the true Buddha. In the "Hara dono gohenji"
"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World [Saha] and if you rely instead on Amida Buddha and give
sole respect to Amida Buddha, then you will become a person who is guilty of
the five deadly sins; you will fall into the hell of interminable suffering
[Avichi Hell], isn't that true?"
"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."
It is evident that Nikko himself revered the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha of
chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra as Nichiren Shonin himself taught.

It's evident you haven't a clue.

Post by RB
You must be practicing Nikken Buddhism.

You must be practising RB Buddhism.

Cody

[RB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB
It is evident that Nikko himself revered the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha of
chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra as Nichiren Shonin himself taught.

It's evident you haven't a clue.

Do you? Please show me any evidence that would suggest that Nikko Shonin
revered Nichiren Daishonin as the Treasure of the Buddha as your sect does.

Nichiren Daishonin stated:

 "Present within our lives is the Lord Shakyamuni who
  obtained the three enlightened properties of life before
  gohyaku-jintengo, the Original Buddha since time without
  beginning." (MW vol. 1, The True Object of Worship, pg. 65)

 "Shakyamuni is the original teacher for all people as well
  as their sovereign and their parent"
  (MW vol. 1, Admonitions Against Slander, pg. 166)

 "It is the object of worship which perfectly depicts Lord
   Shakyamuni in the Treasure Tower"
  (MW vol. 1, The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon, pg. 212)

 "Shakyamuni is the father, sovereign and teacher of all
  other Buddhas and all gods, of the whole assembly of men
  and heavenly beings and of all sentient beings."
  (MW vol. 1, Letter to Nikke, pg. 257)

Nikko Shonin stated in his "Hara dono gohenji":

"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World"

and

"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."

And let's not forget:

"Do not follow even the high priest if he goes against the Buddhas Law and
propounds his own views" Nikko Shonin (GZ, 1618).

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
It is evident that Nikko himself revered the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha of
chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra as Nichiren Shonin himself taught.

It's evident you haven't a clue.

Do you?

Yep.

Please show me any evidence that would suggest that Nikko Shonin

Post by RB
revered Nichiren Daishonin as the Treasure of the Buddha as your sect does.

Read the Gosho. Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary? You copying and pasting some other "Nichiren"
sect member's posts is not reading the Gosho.

You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares himself to
be the True Buddha.

Discussions with you are useless. You're totally afflicted with the ISS.

Cody

Post by RB
"Present within our lives is the Lord Shakyamuni who
obtained the three enlightened properties of life before
gohyaku-jintengo, the Original Buddha since time without
beginning." (MW vol. 1, The True Object of Worship, pg. 65)
"Shakyamuni is the original teacher for all people as well
as their sovereign and their parent"
(MW vol. 1, Admonitions Against Slander, pg. 166)
"It is the object of worship which perfectly depicts Lord
Shakyamuni in the Treasure Tower"
(MW vol. 1, The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon, pg. 212)
"Shakyamuni is the father, sovereign and teacher of all
other Buddhas and all gods, of the whole assembly of men
and heavenly beings and of all sentient beings."
(MW vol. 1, Letter to Nikke, pg. 257)
"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World"
and
"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."
"Do not follow even the high priest if he goes against the Buddhas Law and
propounds his own views" Nikko Shonin (GZ, 1618).

[RB]

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

Post by Cody
Discussions with you are useless. You're totally afflicted with the ISS.

There it is. A personal attack. I feel complete now, thanks.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

I gave you proof that you, being the troll that you are, snipped.

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Discussions with you are useless. You're totally afflicted with the ISS.

There it is. A personal attack. I feel complete now, thanks.

Not a personal attack. You *are* afflicted with ISS. You have my condolences
and I hope you get over it soon.

Cody

[RB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

I gave you proof that you, being the troll that you are, snipped.

Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

I gave you proof that you, being the troll that you are, snipped.

Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

What you snipped:

"You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares himself
to
be the True Buddha."

Cody

[RB]

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

I gave you proof that you, being the troll that you are, snipped.

Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

"You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares himself
to
be the True Buddha."
Cody

What page? Let's have a look.

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB

Post by Cody
Many times Nichiren Daishonin says he's the True Buddha. Do
you think I am your secretary?

All talk and no proof. I expected that. But something is missing...

I gave you proof that you, being the troll that you are, snipped.

Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

"You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares himself
to
be the True Buddha."
Cody

What page? Let's have a look.

You see, Rob, there's a problem. I can't take you seriously because I don't
think you're sincerely interested.

Cody

[RB]

Post by RB

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

"You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares

himself

Post by RB

Post by Cody
to
be the True Buddha."
Cody

What page? Let's have a look.

You see, Rob, there's a problem. I can't take you seriously because I don't
think you're sincerely interested.
Cody

That's what I thought. You can't even give me a page number or a quote from
the Gosho to support your claim. I had no problem in quoting Nichiren and
Nikko Shonin to support mine. You don't have to take me seriously, but you
may want to take these quotes seriously, as I didn't write them:

Nichiren Daishonin stated:

 "Present within our lives is the Lord Shakyamuni who
  obtained the three enlightened properties of life before
  gohyaku-jintengo, the Original Buddha since time without
  beginning." (MW vol. 1, The True Object of Worship, pg. 65)

 "Shakyamuni is the original teacher for all people as well
  as their sovereign and their parent"
  (MW vol. 1, Admonitions Against Slander, pg. 166)

 "It is the object of worship which perfectly depicts Lord
   Shakyamuni in the Treasure Tower"
  (MW vol. 1, The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon, pg. 212)

 "Shakyamuni is the father, sovereign and teacher of all
  other Buddhas and all gods, of the whole assembly of men
  and heavenly beings and of all sentient beings."
  (MW vol. 1, Letter to Nikke, pg. 257)

Nikko Shonin stated in his "Hara dono gohenji":

"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World"

and

"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."

And let's not forget:

"Do not follow even the high priest if he goes against the Buddha's Law and
propounds his own views" Nikko Shonin (GZ, 1618).

[Cody]

Post by RB

Post by RB

Post by RB

Post by Cody

Post by RB
Saying "read the Gosho" is not proof.

"You can start with the Kaimoku Sho where he, at the end, declares

himself

Post by RB

Post by Cody
to
be the True Buddha."
Cody

What page? Let's have a look.

You see, Rob, there's a problem. I can't take you seriously because I don't
think you're sincerely interested.
Cody

That's what I thought.

Me too. Now you're confirming it.

Post by RB
You can't even give me a page number or a quote from
the Gosho to support your claim.

Why should I? What do I owe you?

Post by RB
I had no problem in quoting Nichiren and
Nikko Shonin to support mine.

You had no problem googling ARBN and copying and pasting you mean.

Post by RB
You don't have to take me seriously, but you

Just curious, do you have a clue as to what the Daishonin's Hosshaku Kempon
means? Have you read the Kaimoku Sho or can you only copy and paste other
people's posts?

Cody

Post by RB
"Present within our lives is the Lord Shakyamuni who
obtained the three enlightened properties of life before
gohyaku-jintengo, the Original Buddha since time without
beginning." (MW vol. 1, The True Object of Worship, pg. 65)
"Shakyamuni is the original teacher for all people as well
as their sovereign and their parent"
(MW vol. 1, Admonitions Against Slander, pg. 166)
"It is the object of worship which perfectly depicts Lord
Shakyamuni in the Treasure Tower"
(MW vol. 1, The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon, pg. 212)
"Shakyamuni is the father, sovereign and teacher of all
other Buddhas and all gods, of the whole assembly of men
and heavenly beings and of all sentient beings."
(MW vol. 1, Letter to Nikke, pg. 257)
"The teaching of Nichiren is the one that states that if you have abandoned
Shakyamuni Buddha who is the Original Lord and Master of the sentient beings
of the Triple World"
and
"The original intention of the appearance of Nichiren Shonin in this world,
the Master Shakyamuni Buddha of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo."
"Do not follow even the high priest if he goes against the Buddha's Law and
propounds his own views" Nikko Shonin (GZ, 1618).

[RB]

Post by Cody
Just curious, do you have a clue as to what the Daishonin's Hosshaku Kempon
means?

Sure, it literally means "throwing off the transient and revealing the
true".

"The Opening of the Eyes" reads, 'On the twelfth day of the
ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the Rat and the Ox
(11:00 P.M. to 3:00 A.M.), this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is
his soul that has come to this island of Sado and, in the second month of
the following year, snowbound, is writing this to send to his close
followers' (MW-2, 177).

And he stated, "It is his soul that has come to this island of Sado." This
is a metaphor right? His body did not actually die there. He very well may
have attained actual enlightenment on that beach, but no one reading this
passage could possibly come to the conclusion of that the Daishonin is
claiming to be the the Original Buddha. If it was true that Nichiren
Daishonin revealed his true identity as the Buddha to replace the Original
Buddha Shakyamuni, and thereby trumping all of his previous writings about
the Buddha, I would think that he would have been a bit more explicit. Hell,
Shakyamuni was very specific and taught at length when revealing His true
nature as the Eternal Buddha.

Furthermore, let's look at what Nichiren Daishonin said about what happened
to him during that "beheading":

The Supremacy of the Law,
"When I was about to be beheaded, the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni took my
place."(MW. vol. 3, pg 199).

Why would the Original Buddha need the intervention of one of his
emanations?

Post by Cody
Have you read the Kaimoku Sho or can you only copy and paste other
people's posts?
Cody

Here are some quotes from the Kaimoku Sho. Make sure you read them
carefully.

"Thus it was revealed that Shakyamuni had long been the
Buddha since the eternal past, and it became clear that
various Buddhas in other worlds were all manifestations of
Shakyamuni Buddha..[ ] now, however, as Shakyamuni was
proved to be the Eternal Buddha, those Buddhas in the Flower
Garland Sutra, or Buddhas in the Hodo, Hannya, or Great Sun
Buddha sutras all became subordinates of Shakyamuni Buddha."
(Kaimoku Sho)

"Since Shakyamuni Buddha is eternal and all other Buddhas
in the universe are His manifestations." (Kaimoku
Sho).

"But now since it has been revealed that Shakyamuni is the
Eternal Buddha."(Kaimoku Sho)

"Shakyamuni Buddha, within our minds, is an ancient
Buddha without beginning, manifesting Himself in three
bodies and attained Buddhahood n the eternal
past." (ibid.)

"The Bodhisattvas (who sprang from underneath the
ground), as described in the 15th chapter, are followers of
the Original Buddha Shakaymuni who resides within our
minds."(ibid.)

"Shakyamuni Buddha, the Lord-preacher of this pure land, has
never died in the past, nor will he be born in the future.
He exists forever, throughout the past, present and future."

"Many wooden statues and portraits were made of Shakyamuni
Buddha as He preached Hinayana and quasi-Mahayana sutras,
but statues and portraits of the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha
revealed in the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus Sutra were never
made. Now, in the beginning of Mappo, is it not the time
that such statues and portraits are made?" (Kaimoku
Sho)

"Since the Buddha of the Juryo chapter is revealed as the
eternal Buddha, it follows that the great Bodhisattvas such
as Monju and Miroku, and the great bodhisattvas from other
realms are in fact disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha. If, among
all the numerous sutras, this Juryo chapter should be
lacking, it would be as though there were no sun and moon in
the sky, no supreme ruler in the nation, no gems in the
mountains and rivers, and no spirit in man. (MW, V2, pg.
150)

"Since Sakyamuni Buddha is eternal and all other Buddhas in
the universe are His manifestations, then those great
bodhisattvas converted by manifested Buddhas are also
disciples of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha. If the "Life Span of
the Buddha" chapter had not been expounded, it would be like
the sky without the sun and moon, a country without a king,
mountains and rivers without gems, or a man without a soul.
(Kaimoku Sho)"

[Kurt]

In article <BD4F89C5.12048%***@hotmail.com>,
RB <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

You post complete nonesense in order to take a swipe at NST folks, then
cry foul when someone calls you on it.
At one time, I took you for a sincere guy searching for the truth.
Guess you duped me?

[Derek N.P.F. Juhl]

Post by Kurt
You post complete nonesense in order to take a swipe at NST folks, then
cry foul when someone calls you on it.

It's a classic trolling method.

Derek Juhl

[CB]

Post by Derek N.P.F. Juhl

Post by Kurt
You post complete nonesense in order to take a swipe at NST folks, then
cry foul when someone calls you on it.

It's a classic trolling method.
Derek Juhl

That's why they call him Bob the baiter
and that's why I have him plonked


http://www.sg-eye.com
http://www.daisaku-ikeda.com
http://www.sokacult.com

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Cody
Craig's right; you're just a troll.

More name-calling, Cody? Is that the best you can do? You seem upset.
Does this thread challenge your belief in Nichiren Shoshu? Is it
absolutely necessary for your to believe this pathetic piece of
superstitious tripe?

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Cody
Craig's right; you're just a troll.

More name-calling, Cody?

He *is* a troll. I tell it like I see it. If you don't like it, plonk me.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
Is that the best you can do?

Ooo, Christian morality poking its ugly head up. How trite.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
You seem upset.

Things aren't always as they seem.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
Does this thread challenge your belief in Nichiren Shoshu?

Not at all.

Post by honbutsu_n_u
Is it
absolutely necessary for your to believe this pathetic piece of
superstitious tripe?
ntllct

Have you stopped beating your wife and children yet?

Cody

[Kurt]

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually get
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.

That nonsense was unecessary, Rob

[RB]

Post by Kurt

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually get
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.

That nonsense was unecessary, Rob

I agree 100%. The whole idea of a never-dying tooth is nonsense as well as
what I wrote. In case there is a person who thinks that I am serious, I'm
not. As far as my comments being "unecessary"[sic], your right also. There
was no need for it. I personally found some pleasure in it though, so it did
have a function and purpose (for me at least). Perhaps I can still have fun
with it. It did seem hit hit a NERVE.. Perhaps it's the same nerve that is
undying within that blasted tooth.

http://www.mworld.us/leap/image/The%20Simpsons/002.jpg

[Kurt]

Post by RB
It did seem hit hit a NERVE.. Perhaps it's the same nerve that is
undying within that blasted tooth.

You're projecting.
The only "nerve" that seems to have hit is the same one that gets hit
every time we see another protagonistic post (from anyone up here).

[Kurt]

Post by Kurt
The only "nerve" that seems to have hit is the same one that gets hit
every time we see another protagonistic post (from anyone up here).

Antagonist is a better word

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Kurt
That nonsense was unecessary, Rob

The real "nonsense" is being promoted by your beloved priest, Kurt.
The Raelian cloning story is just simply GREAT humor! LOL. Hell, if
the tooth story WERE true (and I say that all reasonable men and women
will reject it as ludicrous) then it would be perfectly reasonable to
clone it PRONTO. Then we could clear up all this endless idiotic
pseudo-debating and name-calling on arbn, couldn't we!!

ntllct

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by RB
I hear that Nichiren Shoshu is having talks with the Raelians to have
Nichiren himself cloned from that tooth. If Nichiren Shoshu can actually get
the body of Nichiren himself, that would add allot of legitimacy to their
sect.

ROFLMAO

ntllct

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by Andy Hanlen
LOL! What's to "believe in?" Sure, there's a tooth, and whatever is
said about it, it, like everything in this saha world, obeys natural
laws. Sure, it's a relic of Nichiren (or is said to be). What else?
Why is this question of any importance? Who cares?

Let's see, Andy. Aren't you a member of that disgraced and notorious
group that believes Ikeda to be the living incarnation of the
"Daishonin?" Since the implications seem beyond your powers, the
question is of importance because this fable is claimed as absolute
truth by Nichiren Shoshu. It's just like the resurrection; if you're a
Christian, you believe in it ... 'though it is obviously and patently
a LIE ... sorta like "Ikeda is a fine man."

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by Andy Hanlen
LOL! What's to "believe in?" Sure, there's a tooth, and whatever is
said about it, it, like everything in this saha world, obeys natural
laws. Sure, it's a relic of Nichiren (or is said to be). What else?
Why is this question of any importance? Who cares?

Let's see, Andy. Aren't you a member of that disgraced and notorious
group that believes Ikeda to be the living incarnation of the
"Daishonin?" Since the implications seem beyond your powers, the
question is of importance because this fable is claimed as absolute
truth by Nichiren Shoshu. It's just like the resurrection; if you're a
Christian, you believe in it ... 'though it is obviously and patently
a LIE ... sorta like "Ikeda is a fine man."
ntllct

Try to keep up, whoever you are. Andy quit SGI last year. Now he's afflicted
with same illness that you are: ISS.

Cody

[atheramari]

OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?

buddhist to the bone,

ntllct



~~~~~~~~~~~~

If people care about someone, would they care to save a part of that someone so
as not to lose track of his being a part of their lives in some way?

Some save urns, some go to plots to pay respects, some have statues, some save
goods that person had to remember them by. People spend a greater part of their
life practicing.

To me this is not founder worship, but actual feelings towards someone. I know
that I don't worship ANYONE'S relics, but I know that myself and many other
people care about his teachings and deeply respect what he has written. I
would also venture to say if someone WAS worthy of respect that some people
might save his relics because he has brought to light something that would
otherwise be lost.

Why is their such importance to say what you have to SGI, NST or Shoshinkai
members, the way it has been posted?
And who is rough and tough?

I think you should worry about what you think of all this.

Should that be your point?

D

Re: Rough tough SGI, Nichiren Shoshu, Shoshinkai.

Is this solving a problem?

D

[atheramari]

OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?

buddhist to the bone,

ntllct



~~~~~~~~~~~~

Answer this: If people care about someone, would they care to save a part of
that someone so
as not to lose track of his being a part of their lives in some way?

Some save urns, some go to plots to pay respects, some have statues, some save
goods that person had to remember them by. Other forms of Buddhism did it.
People spend a greater part of their
life practicing, so they have feelings about it in some way.

To me this is not founder worship, but actual feelings towards someone. I know
that I don't worship ANYONE'S relics, but I know that myself and many other
people care about his teachings and deeply respect what he has written. I
would also venture to say if someone WAS worthy of respect that some people
might save his relics because he has brought to light something that would
otherwise be lost and that is IMPORTANT.

Why is their such importance to say what you have to SGI, NST or Shoshinkai
members, the way it has been posted?
Who is rough and tough and where rubber meets the road?

I think you should worry about what YOU think of all this.

Should that be your point?

D

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by atheramari
To me this is not founder worship, but actual feelings towards someone.

Yes, of course. However, NS claims that the tooth has NEVER-DYING
tissue attached to it. That is a step beyond feelings of affection and
saving a momento of someone. That is claiming a miracle.

Post by atheramari
Why is their such importance to say what you have to SGI, NST or Shoshinkai
members, the way it has been posted?

Because all three groups adhere to their versions of the Taisekiji
myth.

Post by atheramari
And who is rough and tough?

That was sarcasm on my part. It takes someone tough to believe in this
sort of nonsense (or else simply missing their mind).

Post by atheramari
I think you should worry about what you think of all this.
Should that be your point?

Precisely. It is IMPORTANT to think seriously about this. If the
priesthood is willing to promote this sort of nonsensical
superstition, then it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are
perfectly capable of promoting other kinds of misleading falsehood.

ntllct

[yelps]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

And who put that "(Nichiren Daishonin1s tooth with living gum)"??? Some
chessy lay- person still believing in the old wives tale?

I put this post out on arbn and have been a member in good standing of
Nichiren Shoshu for 36 years, Cole ... and I didn't need a half-pound
of psychedelics in my system to understand the profundity of

"myo."<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


'"Psychedelics" are molecules endogenous in the brain (doesn't take Half a
pound.).
Altered Brain chemistry is responsible for mystical experience in the first
place.
All initial, religious ideation is based on the use of visionary
plants--either intentionally used or accidentally (such as with ergot
epidemics). All practices are in essense yogic concentration of focusing
the mind during visionary plant use. "Reason," is not the way an
understanding of "myo" was begun.

The entire cosmology of ancient India, Egypt. Mesopotamian, Meso American,
South American,
Native American, Nordic, antediluvial legend etc. derive from "Soma"
"Amrita" Kanro,
Tsechufu, Manna etc. Virtually every religious root myth involves this
"Elixer of Immortality"

The "soma" or "haoma," recipes involve the use of Lotus Plant (especially
the "Sun
Lotus") , or "Amrita"( the purified form drank in Urine from Cows who ate or
were fed these things)
Mushrooms and other Fungi and thousands of other plants that cause
these most powerful experiences. Meditation alone is weak and in reality is
strictly preparatory to visionary plant use. Furthermore, without these
fundamental experiences, there is no loose cognitive mind (hypersuggestible,
malleable) able to break
conditioning--thus no disruptive force allows any patterning force. For
instance in the late sixites, many millions of westerners using entheogenic
substances suddenly became interested in eastern religion or western
gnosticism, as opposed to conditioned ideas of their previous institutional
religions. Any historical increase in interest in mystical experience is
tracable
to visionary plant use and related ceremonies involving this.

The original cosmology is one of entheogenic experience and viewing the
world around them especially celestial objects and naming them and
experiencing oneness with all of it, during visionary plant use which
involves the Ego-death/rebirth experience. This is fundamental to all
primary religious thinking. For instance, 75% of the characters on the
Gohonzon are originally vedic and vedic refrs first to the Rg Veda and this
ancient hymnal writing is ABOUT soma ceremonies. Visisatcaritra (later to
appear in the Lotus Sutra) the chief of the seven sages in the Vedas, (who
are really anthropomorphicized stars in the big dipper which revolves around
the pole star, which is in the center of the 4 corners of north south east
west)
was given Soma by Indra who was the chief soma producer with the help of
his deva minions
The sages mediatate and the soma was said to flow down from the storage tank
of the moon (soma) and into the big dipper ladel as then into the body of
the meditating sage.

To deny this is just as superstitious or literalized, as thinking that there
is a tooth with growing gum tissue on it or to believe in alien or divine
intervention.

dc

Post by honbutsu_n_u
Frankly, I don't believe in this sort of superstitious nonsense
either, but wanted to challenge those NS, SGI, and Shoshinkai
believers here, whose respective schools of Buddhism DO claim this to
be true, to respond and put their cards on the table.
ntllct<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Man's Best Friend]

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?

The Nichiren Shoshu has what they claim is a living tooth of Nichiren
Daishonin with a piece of living gum attatched. It would be possible to date
this tooth and gum without damaging the DNA. In several years we might be able
to clone Nichiren from a single cell of this tooth. ...<snip>

I posted this a couple years ago......


Here it is, folks, from a book I have here right in front of me called "The
Sokagakkai", Seikyo Press, 1960, First edition. ( A hard cover book 150
pages) Probably one of the first SGI English language books out.

Ikeda has just been inaugurated president, and much of the book talks about
the formation of the Sokagakkai, as well as how it functions as the lay
society of Nichiren Shoshu. It also goes into detail of Nichiren Shoshu,
the function of the priests, Taisekiji, the importance of the ceremonies,
etc, etc.

In the chapter on the tresures of Taisekiji, is this excerpt:

Among these treasures, theer is an especially mysteriuos one, the Onikuge,
a tooth of Nichiren Daishonin. He himself pulled a tooth which had become
loose and gave it to His favorite disciple. A tiny bit of flesh that still
adhered to the root of the tooth has grown larger for the past 660 years
and now, almost the whole surface of the tooth is covered with flesh.
Unbelievably, this is a living tooth.
Since the Onikuge is thus a mysterious and valuable treasure, it is not
customarily shown except on special occassions. However in recent times, it
was opened to the view of all worshippers on the 700th anniversary of
Nichiren Shoshu, 1952, and at the ceremonies of Odaigawari (ritual ceremony
for the installation of the High Priest), held in 1957 and 1960.
At the 1960 ceremony, 200,000 worshippers, inlcuding medical specialists
and physiologists were permitted to have the honor of seeing it from a
distance of 20 inches and they were deeply impressed with its dignity, for
the Onikuge looks alive and shines with a pearly luster.
There is nothing in the world more mysterious than this sacred Onikuge. It
tells us without spoeaking, the dignity of Buddhism and mystery of life.

On another note, this stuff...
"Further more, Nichiren Shoshu is the only religion which inherits the
teachings of Nichiren Daishonin in accuracy and practices them faithfully,
striving to make all mankind happy. Thertefore, the world should believe in
Nichiren Shoshu, the supreme religion."

"Transfer of the Faith to the High Priest Nikko
Prior to his death, He (ND) transmitted all the secrets of True Buddhism to
High Priest Nikko who was his finest disciple. (In Buddhism, the secret
principles are always passed from priest to priest in a direct line from
the founder, a ritual ceremony being held on that occassion)."



Posted by MBF

= E N D . =

[yelps]

Yes that is the book that spread the old wives tale I have a copy as well.
The thing people have to realize is how myth building and accretions take
place. Also it must be recognized the primitive level of early
publications, and take translations and the tendency towards literalism as a
factor in how what was originally a metaphor could become distorted later.

dc

Post by Man's Best Friend

Post by honbutsu_n_u
OK all you rough and tough Nichiren Shoshu, SGI, and Shoshinkai
members out there. Here's where the rubber meets the road. On and for
the record, do you believe in the "never-dying tooth" of Nichiren,
said to be amongst the sacred relics of Taisekiji?
Rogowdoc wrote in message

The Nichiren Shoshu has what they claim is a living tooth of Nichiren
Daishonin with a piece of living gum attatched. It would be possible to date
this tooth and gum without damaging the DNA. In several years we might be able
to clone Nichiren from a single cell of this tooth. ...<snip>

I posted this a couple years ago......
Here it is, folks, from a book I have here right in front of me called "The
Sokagakkai", Seikyo Press, 1960, First edition. ( A hard cover book 150
pages) Probably one of the first SGI English language books out.
Ikeda has just been inaugurated president, and much of the book talks about
the formation of the Sokagakkai, as well as how it functions as the lay
society of Nichiren Shoshu. It also goes into detail of Nichiren Shoshu,
the function of the priests, Taisekiji, the importance of the ceremonies,
etc, etc.
Among these treasures, theer is an especially mysteriuos one, the Onikuge,
a tooth of Nichiren Daishonin. He himself pulled a tooth which had become
loose and gave it to His favorite disciple. A tiny bit of flesh that still
adhered to the root of the tooth has grown larger for the past 660 years
and now, almost the whole surface of the tooth is covered with flesh.
Unbelievably, this is a living tooth.
Since the Onikuge is thus a mysterious and valuable treasure, it is not
customarily shown except on special occassions. However in recent times, it
was opened to the view of all worshippers on the 700th anniversary of
Nichiren Shoshu, 1952, and at the ceremonies of Odaigawari (ritual ceremony
for the installation of the High Priest), held in 1957 and 1960.
At the 1960 ceremony, 200,000 worshippers, inlcuding medical specialists
and physiologists were permitted to have the honor of seeing it from a
distance of 20 inches and they were deeply impressed with its dignity, for
the Onikuge looks alive and shines with a pearly luster.
There is nothing in the world more mysterious than this sacred Onikuge. It
tells us without spoeaking, the dignity of Buddhism and mystery of life.
On another note, this stuff...
"Further more, Nichiren Shoshu is the only religion which inherits the
teachings of Nichiren Daishonin in accuracy and practices them faithfully,
striving to make all mankind happy. Thertefore, the world should believe in
Nichiren Shoshu, the supreme religion."
"Transfer of the Faith to the High Priest Nikko
Prior to his death, He (ND) transmitted all the secrets of True Buddhism to
High Priest Nikko who was his finest disciple. (In Buddhism, the secret
principles are always passed from priest to priest in a direct line from
the founder, a ritual ceremony being held on that occassion)."
Posted by MBF
= E N D . =

[RB]

Post by Man's Best Friend
Among these treasures, theer is an especially mysteriuos one, the Onikuge,
a tooth of Nichiren Daishonin. He himself pulled a tooth which had become
loose and gave it to His favorite disciple. A tiny bit of flesh that still
adhered to the root of the tooth has grown larger for the past 660 years
and now, almost the whole surface of the tooth is covered with flesh.
Unbelievably, this is a living tooth.

Shenanigans!

This is one of the stupidest things that I have ever heard. Anyone who has
ever taken a biology class would laugh anyone out of town for believing
this. It's no wonder the priesthood doesn't talk about it much. This is
nothing but pure magical thinking perpetuated by some sort of
"group-insanity". Since when has Buddhism been at odds with science and
common sense?

Shakyamuni Buddha exclaimed:

³Believe nothing.
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it,
Even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense.²

A 700 year old magic never-dying living tooth does not agree with my own
reason and common sense.

Albert Einstein stated:

³If there is any religion that would cope with
modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.²

I guess that he didn't know about Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism.

[yelps]

"RB" <***@hotmail.com> wrote

³If there is any religion that would cope with
modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.²

I guess that he didn't know about Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Don't kid yourself about two things. First, don't kid yourself that
Nichiren Shohu really believes the tooth is growing except really a small
group of literal minded fools, whether priest or layman, that cannot
understand metaphor and are literal minded with concrete thinking
patterns----or that the original metaphor about the relic was intended to
really suggest the "living" tooth in a literal way. THINK how words passed
down are altered and meanings accrue both metaphoric and literal. Don't
believe that Nichiren Shohsu really explains it that way. It was the old
wives tale that transmuted into what literal minded thought was what was
intended to be taught by Nikko Shonin.


Secondly, don't kid yourself that any other "sect" of ANY sort would be free
of retarded people who will create stories that get lost in
translation.---the lowest common denominator of human communication.

Some people take metaphor as literal,

OTHERS take what retards say as literal dogma. Both types can be found on
arbn.

Its sort of like, a person who can't tell a parody website from a real
website. Concrete thinking prevails on either side of every argument.

Not realizing what you are hearing is retarded because of literalism
........is still retarded literalism.




dc

Safety for the Masses.

[honbutsu_n_u]

Post by yelps
Don't kid yourself about two things. First, don't kid yourself that
Nichiren Shohu really believes the tooth is growing except really a small
group of literal minded fools, whether priest or layman, that cannot
understand metaphor and are literal minded with concrete thinking
patterns----or that the original metaphor about the relic was intended to
really suggest the "living" tooth in a literal way. THINK how words passed
down are altered and meanings accrue both metaphoric and literal. Don't
believe that Nichiren Shohsu really explains it that way. It was the old
wives tale that transmuted into what literal minded thought was what was
intended to be taught by Nikko Shonin.
Secondly, don't kid yourself that any other "sect" of ANY sort would be free
of retarded people who will create stories that get lost in
translation.---the lowest common denominator of human communication.
Some people take metaphor as literal,
OTHERS take what retards say as literal dogma. Both types can be found on
arbn.
Its sort of like, a person who can't tell a parody website from a real
website. Concrete thinking prevails on either side of every argument.
Not realizing what you are hearing is retarded because of literalism
........is still retarded literalism.

Bottom line, Dave, is that NS continues to publish this sad piece of
superstitious tripe as factual and miraculous. It is even held up as a
test and testimony of faith. If Buddhism is devoted to truth, then NS
is sadly and profoundly off the mark on this one.

ntllct

[Cody]

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by yelps
Don't kid yourself about two things. First, don't kid yourself that
Nichiren Shohu really believes the tooth is growing except really a small
group of literal minded fools, whether priest or layman, that cannot
understand metaphor and are literal minded with concrete thinking
patterns----or that the original metaphor about the relic was intended to
really suggest the "living" tooth in a literal way. THINK how words passed
down are altered and meanings accrue both metaphoric and literal. Don't
believe that Nichiren Shohsu really explains it that way. It was the old
wives tale that transmuted into what literal minded thought was what was
intended to be taught by Nikko Shonin.
Secondly, don't kid yourself that any other "sect" of ANY sort would be free
of retarded people who will create stories that get lost in
translation.---the lowest common denominator of human communication.
Some people take metaphor as literal,
OTHERS take what retards say as literal dogma. Both types can be found on
arbn.
Its sort of like, a person who can't tell a parody website from a real
website. Concrete thinking prevails on either side of every argument.
Not realizing what you are hearing is retarded because of literalism
........is still retarded literalism.

Bottom line, Dave, is that NS continues to publish this sad piece of
superstitious tripe as factual and miraculous. It is even held up as a
test and testimony of faith. If Buddhism is devoted to truth, then NS
is sadly and profoundly off the mark on this one.
ntllct

Is someone forcing you to join Nichiren Shoshu? What do you practise? What's
your name?

Cody

[yelps]

a quote in parantheses, no doubt added by some well meaning layman in the
Tozan manual, is not exactly Nichiren Shoshu doing it. Its just an
accretion. The Priests don't even read that stuff that the american read.
Few of them read english well enough anyway. I can't think of any mention
of the tooth being alive, except in a gakkai book and word of mouth. The
same happens in NST laymen, they heard the story they go see the tooth and
no one even thinks to find out if this is meant literally. It is just usual
human literalizing.




dc

Post by honbutsu_n_u

Post by yelps
Don't kid yourself about two things. First, don't kid yourself that
Nichiren Shohu really believes the tooth is growing except really a small
group of literal minded fools, whether priest or layman, that cannot
understand metaphor and are literal minded with concrete thinking
patterns----or that the original metaphor about the relic was intended to
really suggest the "living" tooth in a literal way. THINK how words passed
down are altered and meanings accrue both metaphoric and literal. Don't
believe that Nichiren Shohsu really explains it that way. It was the old
wives tale that transmuted into what literal minded thought was what was
intended to be taught by Nikko Shonin.
Secondly, don't kid yourself that any other "sect" of ANY sort would be free
of retarded people who will create stories that get lost in
translation.---the lowest common denominator of human communication.
Some people take metaphor as literal,
OTHERS take what retards say as literal dogma. Both types can be found on
arbn.
Its sort of like, a person who can't tell a parody website from a real
website. Concrete thinking prevails on either side of every argument.
Not realizing what you are hearing is retarded because of literalism
........is still retarded literalism.

Bottom line, Dave, is that NS continues to publish this sad piece of
superstitious tripe as factual and miraculous. It is even held up as a
test and testimony of faith. If Buddhism is devoted to truth, then NS
is sadly and profoundly off the mark on this one.
ntllct