Discussion:
The true aspect of all phenomena
(too old to reply)
Pat
2003-10-18 08:34:13 UTC
Permalink
"Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who
are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true
Buddha. This is what is described in the sutra as "the Thus Come One's
secret and his transcendental powers."The "Thus Come One's secret" refers to
the entity of the Buddha's three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha.
"His transcendental powers" refers to the functions of the three bodies, and
it refers to provisional Buddhas. A common mortal is an entity of the three
bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a
provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni
Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. On the contrary,it is
common mortals who endow him with the three virtues.

The "Thus Come One" is explained clearly in T'ien-t'ai's commentary as
follows: "The Thus Come One is a general designation for the Buddhas of the
ten directions and the three existences, for the two Buddhas, the three
Buddhas,the true Buddha, and provisional Buddhas."The "true Buddha"here
means common mortals, whereas"provisional Buddhas" means Buddhas. However,
because of the difference between ordinary people and Buddhas that stems
from the disparity between delusion and enlightenment, ordinary people are
unaware that they are endowed with both the entity and the functions of the
three bodies.

"All phenomena" in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and the "true
aspect," to what they actually are. The"true aspect" is another name for
Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell's displaying
the form of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the realm of
hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of hell. A Buddha displays
the form of a Buddha, and a common mortal, that of a common mortal. The
entities of all phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
meaning of "the true aspect of all phenomena." T'ien-t'ai states that the
profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent
Myoho-renge-kyo. This interpretation identifies the phrase "true aspect"
with the theoretical teaching and "the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo"
with the essential teaching. You should ponder this interpretation deep in
your heart." , (WND, p.384)

It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains the
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a Buddha.

Pat
Cody
2003-10-18 09:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains the
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a Buddha.
Pat
And this web site, http://www.sg-eye.com explains the cultish nature of your
SGI Ikeda cult and the concept of how it is not Buddhism in general or
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism in particular.

Cody
MarcInMD
2003-10-19 12:36:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains the
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a Buddha.
Pat
One of the big problems with Nichiren Shoshu and SGI is their sloppy attitude
towards modern scholarship. This insures the continued use of Gosho that are
well known to be forgeries but that say things NST likes to promote.

There is a set of Gosho falsely attributed to Nichiren that preach the
"inherency" of Buddhahood ("Hongaku Shi So"). NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has ever
been authenticated. Whenever you read a Gosho that says such a thing, 100% of
the time the have no original, are not listed in any of the early indexes,
often have textual errors such as referring to events or people not yet
existent during Nichiren's lifetime or occasionally they are lifted almost word
for word from Tendai Shu Hongaku tracts and then "Nichirenized" with referneces
to the Daimoku.

This particular Gosho is one of those highly dubious texts. It is thought to
have been written by three separate authors only one of which was Nichiren
himself and only the opening fragment of the text is his work. Building upon an
authentic fragment is sometimes the case with forgery to help give a fake text
a bit of an authentic feel.
The main purport of this "Gosho" with all the Hongaku imagery is the writing
of another author and then finally another person wrote the concluding lines.

Nichiren Shoshu and SGI members often have no idea that there are authenticity
issues with the Gosho they so rely on to rationalize Nichiren Sho Shu dogma.
However, the argument against them is pretty simple and they ought to consider
it.

1. None of the Hongaku oriented texts have been authenticated (no original, not
in any early index, contains textual goofs, etc.)

2. They contain a World View and metaphysical paradigm different from what is
found in Nichiren's fully authenticated Goshos.

3. Both doctrines cannot be right as they are at great odds with each other.

4. Shouldn't a reasonable person side with the idea's found in the fully
authenticated Gosho against dubious Gosho when the two choices are at odds with
each other?

Finally, Nichiren Shoshu and SGI members need only look at the list Nikko
himself left of what he thought were Nichiren's ten core and most imprint
Gosho. None of the Hongaku Gosho are on that list. The reason, of course is
that they did not yet exist during Nikko's time. If they had and since they
represent a fundamental shift in the type of Buddhism Nichiren taught, he could
not have left them off if they really had been around.
Pat
2003-10-19 13:00:57 UTC
Permalink
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. However, I do not have to accept your rationale. I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood and who
could not. All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. Nichiren
did not inscribe Gohonzon for all of his followers just some of them. The
rest ha to suffice with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. Period.

I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult. That is your
choice. you have to make the SGI look poorly, in order to make yourself
feel better. Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho. The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
nothing in the Gosho that indicates that we should give ourselves over to
the Priests. however, that does not mean you can not stay with the NST and
enjoy yourself. However, it would seem to me if you are happy about your
practice, it would reflect itself in your life.

From all of your posting, I can see Anger, and Hatred for people you have
never met. You work at making people feel poorly. Calling names to anyone
that will pay attention. Is that a good reflection of a good practice. I
can not judge others, but it appears to me, on the boards you respond to you
use excessive poor language, lack respect for others, and many more traits.
I want you to continue in this vain as it makes my job of refuting the NST
much easier than I could ever have imagined.

Thank-you.

Pat
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains the
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a
Buddha.
Post by Pat
Pat
And this web site, http://www.sg-eye.com explains the cultish nature of your
SGI Ikeda cult and the concept of how it is not Buddhism in general or
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism in particular.
Cody
Alias
2003-10-19 13:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. However, I do not have to accept your rationale.
To which rationale are you referring?
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood and who
could not. <
Oh, yes he did. If you were to ever read the Gosho, you would know that.
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. <
Um, not that isn't true. What about the THREE (not two) practises? What
about the Three Great Secret Laws? What about the fact that the Daishonin
said the priesthood was not only necessary but essential? What about the
Heritage of the Law? What about the General and Specific Transmission?
Post by Pat
Nichiren
did not inscribe Gohonzon for all of his followers just some of them. The
rest ha to suffice with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. Period. <
This is true but, of course, you are neglecting to mention the fact that the
Daishonin was alive back then and as you should know, a valid Gohonzon is
the very life of the Daishonin.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
Um, "makes me feel better"? Not really. I just call a spade a spade and SGI
*is* a cult.
Post by Pat
That is your
choice. you have to make the SGI look poorly, in order to make yourself
feel better.
SGI does a very good job of making themselves look poorly without my help. I
just point it out; you know, like the child did in the old story The Emperor
with no Clothes.
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho. The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
nothing in the Gosho that indicates that we should give ourselves over to
the Priests.
Ah, but you are wrong about that. Nichiren Daishonin himself was a priest.
Are you saying that he isn't necessary? The Daishonin also states quite
clearly in The Four Debts of Gratitude:

"As for the debt owed to the Priesthood, both the treasure of the Buddha and
the treasure of the Law are invariably perpetuated by priests. To
illustrate, without firewood, there can be no fire, and if there is no
earth, trees and plants cannot grow. Likewise, even though Buddhism existed,
without the priests who studied it and passed it on, it would never have
been transmitted throughout the two thousand years of the Former and Middle
Days into the Latter Day of the Law. Therefore the Daijuku Sutra states,
"Suppose that, in the fifth five-hundred year period, there should be
someone who harasses unlearned monks without precepts by accusing them of
some offense. You should know that this person is extinguishing the great
torch of Buddhism." Difficult to recompense indeed is the debt we owe to the
Priesthood!"
Post by Pat
however, that does not mean you can not stay with the NST and
enjoy yourself. However, it would seem to me if you are happy about your
practice, it would reflect itself in your life.
Have you ever considered what lens you are looking through when you read my
posts, Patsy?
Post by Pat
From all of your posting, I can see Anger, and Hatred for people you have
never met.
I am not angry at your, nor do I feel any hatred for you. Where did you get
that from?
Post by Pat
You work at making people feel poorly. Calling names to anyone
that will pay attention. Is that a good reflection of a good practice. I
can not judge others, but it appears to me, on the boards you respond to you
use excessive poor language, lack respect for others, and many more traits.
I want you to continue in this vain as it makes my job of refuting the NST
much easier than I could ever have imagined.
Thank-you.
Pat
Ahem, can you possibly address the issues rather than presenting your
uninformed opinons regarding my character?

Cody
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains
the
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a
Buddha.
Post by Pat
Pat
And this web site, http://www.sg-eye.com explains the cultish nature of
your
Post by Pat
SGI Ikeda cult and the concept of how it is not Buddhism in general or
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism in particular.
Cody
Pat
2003-10-19 16:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Alias or Mike?,
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten Worlds
is something other than what Nichiren taught. Nichiren taught no
intermediaries or obstacles to enlightenment, just Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and
Deep Faith. Practice and study are supported by Faith and help to deepen
each other. I have read the Gosho on the True Aspect of All Phenomena, and
Nichiren is pretty specific about who can and who can not attain
enlightenment through chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. As long as you are not
slandering the Wonderful Law of the Lotus Sutra, your enlightenment is
guaranteed..

If you have a gosho, written buy Nichiren indicating something different
than The True Aspect of All Phenomena" please post it, otherwise, it is just
your opinion about the Mutual possession of the Ten Worlds, and that does
not fly in Nichiren's Buddhism; your opining on how to practice; only
Nichiren's words are true in these affairs.

A valid gohonzon is the Treasure Tower. Nichiren was pretty specific about
this issue. He indicated, "Abustu-bo is the Treasure Tower and the Treasure
Tower is Abustu-bo" I think Nichiren was pretty clear about this. I
believe Nichiren as well indicated to seek the Gohonzon from within your own
life. That is a Gosho as well. you can read that one and gain the
understanding, of what Observing the mind means.. Single-mindedly means,
"observing the Buddha", "concentrating one's mind on seeing the Buddha" and,
a"When looking at one's mind, perceiving that it is the Buddha", (WND,
p389-390)

As I said your rationale is full of problems as Nichiren is in conflict with
all you say. Perhaps you might read the Gosho's 'The True aspect of all
phenomena' and "The Opening of the Eyes" for starters. They are quite
informative about the mutual possession of the Eternal Ten Worlds. An
essential understanding of correctly practicing Nichiren Daishonin's
Buddhism.

Patrick

Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. However, I do not have to accept your rationale.
To which rationale are you referring?
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood and
who
Post by Pat
could not. <
Oh, yes he did. If you were to ever read the Gosho, you would know that.
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. <
Um, not that isn't true. What about the THREE (not two) practises? What
about the Three Great Secret Laws? What about the fact that the Daishonin
said the priesthood was not only necessary but essential? What about the
Heritage of the Law? What about the General and Specific Transmission?
Post by Pat
Nichiren
did not inscribe Gohonzon for all of his followers just some of them.
The
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
rest ha to suffice with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. Period. <
This is true but, of course, you are neglecting to mention the fact that the
Daishonin was alive back then and as you should know, a valid Gohonzon is
the very life of the Daishonin.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
Um, "makes me feel better"? Not really. I just call a spade a spade and SGI
*is* a cult.
Post by Pat
That is your
choice. you have to make the SGI look poorly, in order to make yourself
feel better.
SGI does a very good job of making themselves look poorly without my help. I
just point it out; you know, like the child did in the old story The Emperor
with no Clothes.
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho. The Gosho speak for themselves and there
is
Post by Pat
nothing in the Gosho that indicates that we should give ourselves over to
the Priests.
Ah, but you are wrong about that. Nichiren Daishonin himself was a priest.
Are you saying that he isn't necessary? The Daishonin also states quite
"As for the debt owed to the Priesthood, both the treasure of the Buddha and
the treasure of the Law are invariably perpetuated by priests. To
illustrate, without firewood, there can be no fire, and if there is no
earth, trees and plants cannot grow. Likewise, even though Buddhism existed,
without the priests who studied it and passed it on, it would never have
been transmitted throughout the two thousand years of the Former and Middle
Days into the Latter Day of the Law. Therefore the Daijuku Sutra states,
"Suppose that, in the fifth five-hundred year period, there should be
someone who harasses unlearned monks without precepts by accusing them of
some offense. You should know that this person is extinguishing the great
torch of Buddhism." Difficult to recompense indeed is the debt we owe to the
Priesthood!"
Post by Pat
however, that does not mean you can not stay with the NST and
enjoy yourself. However, it would seem to me if you are happy about your
practice, it would reflect itself in your life.
Have you ever considered what lens you are looking through when you read my
posts, Patsy?
Post by Pat
From all of your posting, I can see Anger, and Hatred for people you have
never met.
I am not angry at your, nor do I feel any hatred for you. Where did you get
that from?
Post by Pat
You work at making people feel poorly. Calling names to anyone
that will pay attention. Is that a good reflection of a good practice.
I
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
can not judge others, but it appears to me, on the boards you respond to
you
Post by Pat
use excessive poor language, lack respect for others, and many more
traits.
Post by Pat
I want you to continue in this vain as it makes my job of refuting the NST
much easier than I could ever have imagined.
Thank-you.
Pat
Ahem, can you possibly address the issues rather than presenting your
uninformed opinons regarding my character?
Cody
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
It appears to me this Gosho, The True Aspect of all Phenomena explains
the
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
inherent world of Buddhahood and the concept of who is and is not a
Buddha.
Post by Pat
Pat
And this web site, http://www.sg-eye.com explains the cultish nature of
your
Post by Pat
SGI Ikeda cult and the concept of how it is not Buddhism in general or
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism in particular.
Cody
Alias
2003-10-19 16:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip naivity
that doesn't address what I posted at all.

Cody
Rob
2003-10-19 16:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip naivity
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
See what I mean? (Bad broken Journey record that nobody wants to hear
anyway) Best to just throw it away.

Rob
Alias
2003-10-19 16:55:16 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Alias
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip
naivity
Post by Alias
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
See what I mean? (Bad broken Journey record that nobody wants to hear
anyway) Best to just throw it away.
Rob
I see what you mean and I hope all the people who are considering joining
the SGI Ikeda Cult also see it ...

Cody
Pat
2003-10-20 00:50:46 UTC
Permalink
actually they are watching you act immature and not handle a simple Gosho
like the true aspect of all phenomena. .Lil Mikey Cody.

Pat
Post by Alias
...
Post by Alias
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip
naivity
Post by Alias
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
See what I mean? (Bad broken Journey record that nobody wants to hear
anyway) Best to just throw it away.
Rob
I see what you mean and I hope all the people who are considering joining
the SGI Ikeda Cult also see it ...
Cody
Pat
2003-10-20 00:49:29 UTC
Permalink
I guess when it comes to Gosho you are just overwhelmed with reality. Read
the Gosho and talk then. Do you know what the true aspect of all phenomena
is?

Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip
naivity
Post by Alias
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
See what I mean? (Bad broken Journey record that nobody wants to hear
anyway) Best to just throw it away.
Rob
Pat
2003-10-20 00:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Lil Mikey Cody,
I posted this subject. you have yet to provide anything beyond your
opinion. Your opinion is not worth a plugged nickel when it comes to
Nichiren's words. Truth time. Your opinion you can keep to yourself. Do
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.

Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip naivity
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
Alias
2003-10-20 10:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Lil Mikey Cody,
I posted this subject. you have yet to provide anything beyond your
opinion. Your opinion is not worth a plugged nickel when it comes to
Nichiren's words. Truth time. Your opinion you can keep to yourself. Do
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the Dai
Gohonzon?

Cody
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip
naivity
Post by Alias
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
Pat
2003-10-20 19:50:59 UTC
Permalink
No. Just Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All phenomena contain the Wonderful Law of
The Lotus Sutra, as a part of their existence, including rocks, trees,
people, and everything else within the universe.

Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Lil Mikey Cody,
I posted this subject. you have yet to provide anything beyond your
opinion. Your opinion is not worth a plugged nickel when it comes to
Nichiren's words. Truth time. Your opinion you can keep to yourself.
Do
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the Dai
Gohonzon?
Cody
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
Alias or Mike?,
Pat or Patsy?
Post by Pat
The rationale that you propose that the mutual possession of the Ten
Worlds
Snip of bullshit patronizing, condescending and demeaning guilt trip
naivity
Post by Alias
that doesn't address what I posted at all.
Cody
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 20:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the
Dai> Gohonzon?
No. Just Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All phenomena contain the Wonderful Law of
The Lotus Sutra, as a part of their existence, including rocks, trees, people, and
everything else within the universe.
Pat
If this concept is so simple, cut and dried as the Ikeda cult claims it
is, then a rock would be equal to the DaiGohonzon or anything else
for that matter. Would you chant to a rock, Pat?

"The important point, of course, is that gongyo is a choice...not a
requirement"
David Johnson, SGI member

"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy

"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews

"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews

"I can understand your problem. Sensei is trying to open your heart of
compassion to others."
Pat Matthews

"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews

"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews

'So, is a particular Gohonzon mandala necessary? Well, if it is, the
Dasihonin was quite unmerciful in not giving one to ALL of his followers.
...by "envisioning the ultimate reality", or "knowing that to see
one's mind is to see the Buddha" one is in the presence of the Buddha
and the Law. Which means you CAN manifest your faith and practice,
and achieve kyochi myogo, while looking at your computer screen.'
Jim Cub (arbn)

" I would try, to the best of my ability, to inscribe a Gohonzon,
in English if I had to. I would draw it on a cocktail napkin if
that was all I had, or paint it on the side of a mountain!"
Marilyn Carino (arbn)

"As for cocktail napkins, if there were nothing better available, and
one wanted to perpetuate the Law, one would use what is available that
allows them to act in the same mind as Nichiren."
Jim Celer

"I have admitted that there are gaps in my understanding
of what constitutes a valid Gohonzon - that is, I don't
know about Gohonzons inscribed on napkins or rutabagas"
Brian Holly (arbn)
Post by Pat
Did you ever figure out what makes a Gohonzon valid?
"You bet, it's when the little skinny guy in the gray dress waves his
magic wanger at it."
Brian Holly

"Opinions are all anybody has."
Brian Holly

"Buddhism is nothing but humanism."
Andrew357

"I could make some retort about the Nikken sect being only 9 years old,
but both the SGI and the Temple have firmly shown that Nichiren Show shoe
has not changed at all."
Chris Holte

"We finally have been apprised of what the other Sects of Buddhism have known
all along, that the provenance of the Dai Gohonzon is shrouded in Myth."
Chris Holte

"As long as we were part of Nichiren Shoshu we went along
with the idea that Gohonzon had to be authorized. Now that we are free,we can
"authorize" them ourselves."
Chris Holte

"NST seems worried we will have an Ikeda Sun Daigohonzon to replace
their Daigohonzon. Not a bad idea if you think about it."
Taichee Dee

"it is completely incorrect to continue thinking that the paper scroll
hanging in your butsudan is the source of benefit or lack thereof. It is your
FAITH ALONE (as manifested in your practice) that determines benefit."
Kathy Ruby

"It's kind of sad that the faith of your sect is so superficial that you can't
admit that a physical mandala is a "religious icon", and can't even address the
thought that Nichiren Daishonin didn't actually inscribe the Dai Gohonzon
himself."
Jim Celer

Demolishing temples is not a sin.
Building them is.
Julian Stevenson

"To say praying to the Gohonzon is the ONLY POSSIBLE way to manifest one's
Buddhahood, is to apply a restriction that the Daishonin did not."
Post by Pat
"Can SGI members now photograph the Gohonzon - and if not, why not ?"
"I can do whatever I please. This is not a "police religion" like NS."
S. A.
Rob
2003-10-20 20:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the
Dai> Gohonzon?
No. Just Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All phenomena contain the Wonderful Law of
The Lotus Sutra, as a part of their existence, including rocks, trees, people, and
everything else within the universe.
Pat
If this concept is so simple, cut and dried as the Ikeda cult claims it
is, then a rock would be equal to the DaiGohonzon or anything else
for that matter. Would you chant to a rock, Pat?
This will be the rational when Ikeda's picture is in their Butsudans.

How about a shoebox with a Nike shoe in it. We can chant "Just do it!" over
and over.


Rob
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
"The important point, of course, is that gongyo is a choice...not a
requirement"
David Johnson, SGI member
"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy
"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews
"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews
"I can understand your problem. Sensei is trying to open your heart of
compassion to others."
Pat Matthews
"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews
"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews
"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews
'So, is a particular Gohonzon mandala necessary? Well, if it is, the
Dasihonin was quite unmerciful in not giving one to ALL of his followers.
...by "envisioning the ultimate reality", or "knowing that to see
one's mind is to see the Buddha" one is in the presence of the Buddha
and the Law. Which means you CAN manifest your faith and practice,
and achieve kyochi myogo, while looking at your computer screen.'
Jim Cub (arbn)
" I would try, to the best of my ability, to inscribe a Gohonzon,
in English if I had to. I would draw it on a cocktail napkin if
that was all I had, or paint it on the side of a mountain!"
Marilyn Carino (arbn)
"As for cocktail napkins, if there were nothing better available, and
one wanted to perpetuate the Law, one would use what is available that
allows them to act in the same mind as Nichiren."
Jim Celer
"I have admitted that there are gaps in my understanding
of what constitutes a valid Gohonzon - that is, I don't
know about Gohonzons inscribed on napkins or rutabagas"
Brian Holly (arbn)
Post by Pat
Did you ever figure out what makes a Gohonzon valid?
"You bet, it's when the little skinny guy in the gray dress waves his
magic wanger at it."
Brian Holly
"Opinions are all anybody has."
Brian Holly
"Buddhism is nothing but humanism."
Andrew357
"I could make some retort about the Nikken sect being only 9 years old,
but both the SGI and the Temple have firmly shown that Nichiren Show shoe
has not changed at all."
Chris Holte
"We finally have been apprised of what the other Sects of Buddhism have known
all along, that the provenance of the Dai Gohonzon is shrouded in Myth."
Chris Holte
"As long as we were part of Nichiren Shoshu we went along
with the idea that Gohonzon had to be authorized. Now that we are free,we can
"authorize" them ourselves."
Chris Holte
"NST seems worried we will have an Ikeda Sun Daigohonzon to replace
their Daigohonzon. Not a bad idea if you think about it."
Taichee Dee
"it is completely incorrect to continue thinking that the paper scroll
hanging in your butsudan is the source of benefit or lack thereof. It is your
FAITH ALONE (as manifested in your practice) that determines benefit."
Kathy Ruby
"It's kind of sad that the faith of your sect is so superficial that you can't
admit that a physical mandala is a "religious icon", and can't even address the
thought that Nichiren Daishonin didn't actually inscribe the Dai Gohonzon
himself."
Jim Celer
Demolishing temples is not a sin.
Building them is.
Julian Stevenson
"To say praying to the Gohonzon is the ONLY POSSIBLE way to manifest one's
Buddhahood, is to apply a restriction that the Daishonin did not."
Post by Pat
"Can SGI members now photograph the Gohonzon - and if not, why not ?"
"I can do whatever I please. This is not a "police religion" like NS."
S. A.
Pat
2003-10-21 02:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Rob,
I offer the Gosho 'The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon'" in order to provide
clarification about the Gohonzon, faith, and inherent Budhahood..

item 1. Regarding the True Aspect, Nichiren states, "This is what is meant
when the sutra says "the true aspect of all phenomena."Miao-lo stated: "The
true aspect invariably manifests in all phenomena,and all phenomena
invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten factors invariably manifest
in the Ten Worlds,and the Ten Worlds invariably manifest in life and its
environment."

This indicates to me Buddhahood is one of the Ten Worlds and resides within
my body and mind.

item 2. Regarding seeking the Gohonzon. Nichiren states, "Never seek
this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal
flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."

I think this is pretty clear and straight-forward.

item 3. Regarding faith, Nichiren states, ""With regard to the
phrase`Buddhism is like an ocean that one can only enter with faith,' even
Confucius taught that faith is first and foremost. How much more so is this
true of the profound doctrines of Buddhism! Without faith, how could one
possibly enter?"

self explanatory I would think

item 4. Regarding Buddhahood, Nichiren states, "What is most important is
that, by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo alone, you can attain Buddhahood."

Quite an interesting annotation by Nichiren Daishonin.. This item is for
Tony Montana, that does not believe Buddhahood is inherent.

Well Rob these are a few of the issues we have been dialoguing about, and I
think Nichiren was quite frank about these four items.

By the Way is this a REAL Gosho or do you consider this a Gosho a forgery?

Patrick



"The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon"

"Without exception, all these Buddhas, bodhisattvas, great sages, and, in
general, all the various beings of the two worlds and the eight groups who
appear in the "Introduction" chapter of the Lotus Sutra dwell in this
Gohonzon. Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law,
they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess. This is
the object of devotion.

This is what is meant when the sutra says "the true aspect of all
phenomena."Miao-lo stated: "The true aspect invariably manifests in all
phenomena,and all phenomena invariably manifest in the ten factors. The ten
factors invariably manifest in the Ten Worlds,and the Ten Worlds invariably
manifest in life and its environment."It is also stated that the profound
principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo.
The Great Teacher Dengyo said, "A single moment of life comprising the three
thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy; this Buddha has
forsaken august appearances."Therefore, this Gohonzon shall be called the
great mandala never before known; it did 2,220 years not appear until more
than after the Buddha's passing.

A woman who makes offerings to such a Gohonzon invites happiness in this
life, and in the next, the Gohonzon will be with her and protect her always.
Like a lantern in the dark, like a strong guide and porter on a treacherous
mountain path, the Gohonzon will guard and protect you, Nichinyo, wherever
you go. Therefore, you should take every care to ward off slanderers of the
Law in the same way that you would never wish a courtesan even to come near
your home. This is the meaning of "Thrust aside evil friends and associate
with good companions.

"Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within
the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the
unchanging reality that reigns over all of life's functions. To be endowed
with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in
one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit
word that is translated as "perfectly endowed" or "a cluster of blessings."
This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is
what the sutra means when it states that one can "gain entrance through
faith alone.

"Since Nichiren's disciples and lay supporters believe solely in the Lotus
Sutra, honestly discarding expedient means and not accepting even a single
verse of the other sutras, exactly as the Lotus teaches, they can enter the
treasure tower of the Gohonzon. How reassuring! Make every possible effort
for the sake of your next life. What is most important is that, by chanting
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo alone, you can attain Buddhahood. It will no doubt
depend on the strength of your faith. To have faith is the basis of
Buddhism. Thus the fourth volume of Great Concentration and Insight states,
"Buddhism is like an ocean that one can only enter with faith." The fourth
volume of The Annotations on"Great Concentration and Insight" explains this:
"With regard to the phrase`Buddhism is like an ocean that one can only enter
with faith,' even Confucius taught that faith is first and foremost. How
much more so is this true of the profound doctrines of Buddhism! Without
faith, how could one possibly enter? That is why the Flower Garland Sutra
defines faith as the basis of the way and the mother of blessings." The
first volume of Great Concentration and Insight says, "How does one hear,
believe in, and practice the perfect teaching to attain perfect
enlightenment?" The first volume of On "Great Concentration and Insight"
says, "To `believe in the perfect teaching' means to awaken faith through
doctrine and to make faith the basis of practice."
Post by Rob
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the
Dai> Gohonzon?
No. Just Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All phenomena contain the Wonderful Law of
The Lotus Sutra, as a part of their existence, including rocks, trees, people, and
everything else within the universe.
Pat
If this concept is so simple, cut and dried as the Ikeda cult claims it
is, then a rock would be equal to the DaiGohonzon or anything else
for that matter. Would you chant to a rock, Pat?
This will be the rational when Ikeda's picture is in their Butsudans.
How about a shoebox with a Nike shoe in it. We can chant "Just do it!" over
and over.
Rob
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
"The important point, of course, is that gongyo is a choice...not a
requirement"
David Johnson, SGI member
"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy
"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews
"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews
"I can understand your problem. Sensei is trying to open your heart of
compassion to others."
Pat Matthews
"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews
"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews
"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews
'So, is a particular Gohonzon mandala necessary? Well, if it is, the
Dasihonin was quite unmerciful in not giving one to ALL of his followers.
...by "envisioning the ultimate reality", or "knowing that to see
one's mind is to see the Buddha" one is in the presence of the Buddha
and the Law. Which means you CAN manifest your faith and practice,
and achieve kyochi myogo, while looking at your computer screen.'
Jim Cub (arbn)
" I would try, to the best of my ability, to inscribe a Gohonzon,
in English if I had to. I would draw it on a cocktail napkin if
that was all I had, or paint it on the side of a mountain!"
Marilyn Carino (arbn)
"As for cocktail napkins, if there were nothing better available, and
one wanted to perpetuate the Law, one would use what is available that
allows them to act in the same mind as Nichiren."
Jim Celer
"I have admitted that there are gaps in my understanding
of what constitutes a valid Gohonzon - that is, I don't
know about Gohonzons inscribed on napkins or rutabagas"
Brian Holly (arbn)
Post by Pat
Did you ever figure out what makes a Gohonzon valid?
"You bet, it's when the little skinny guy in the gray dress waves his
magic wanger at it."
Brian Holly
"Opinions are all anybody has."
Brian Holly
"Buddhism is nothing but humanism."
Andrew357
"I could make some retort about the Nikken sect being only 9 years old,
but both the SGI and the Temple have firmly shown that Nichiren Show shoe
has not changed at all."
Chris Holte
"We finally have been apprised of what the other Sects of Buddhism have known
all along, that the provenance of the Dai Gohonzon is shrouded in Myth."
Chris Holte
"As long as we were part of Nichiren Shoshu we went along
with the idea that Gohonzon had to be authorized. Now that we are
free,we
Post by Rob
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
can
"authorize" them ourselves."
Chris Holte
"NST seems worried we will have an Ikeda Sun Daigohonzon to replace
their Daigohonzon. Not a bad idea if you think about it."
Taichee Dee
"it is completely incorrect to continue thinking that the paper scroll
hanging in your butsudan is the source of benefit or lack thereof. It is your
FAITH ALONE (as manifested in your practice) that determines benefit."
Kathy Ruby
"It's kind of sad that the faith of your sect is so superficial that you can't
admit that a physical mandala is a "religious icon", and can't even
address
Post by Rob
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
the
thought that Nichiren Daishonin didn't actually inscribe the Dai Gohonzon
himself."
Jim Celer
Demolishing temples is not a sin.
Building them is.
Julian Stevenson
"To say praying to the Gohonzon is the ONLY POSSIBLE way to manifest one's
Buddhahood, is to apply a restriction that the Daishonin did not."
Post by Pat
"Can SGI members now photograph the Gohonzon - and if not, why not ?"
"I can do whatever I please. This is not a "police religion" like NS."
S. A.
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
2003-10-21 05:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
item 2. Regarding seeking the Gohonzon. Nichiren states, "Never seek
this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal
flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."
I think this is pretty clear and straight-forward.
Yet SGI members seek Gohonzon outside of themselves, i.e., the
counterfeited honzon based on Nichikan Shonin's Gohonzon of Joenji.

Derek Juhl
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-21 13:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek N.P.F. Juhl
Post by Pat
item 2. Regarding seeking the Gohonzon. Nichiren states, "Never seek
this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal
flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."
I think this is pretty clear and straight-forward.
Yet SGI members seek Gohonzon outside of themselves, i.e., the
counterfeited honzon based on Nichikan Shonin's Gohonzon of Joenji.
Derek Juhl
But the Ikeda cult doesn't think they have to practice what they preach.
They are all "Buddha priests" who can instruct us any way they please
but if we dare disagree we are judgemental bullies who are falling into
the hell of incessant suffering for our evil sins.
Personally I think the reaso Pat keeps harping on this is because he
is trying to keep the spotlight off the new slashed Ikeda cult Gongyo
that they now use to worship Daisuk Ikeda. How I wish Kathy Ruby
and Jim Celer were still here, so we can tell them we told them so!
LOL!!!!
C

"You really should read the Gosho. The Later Day of the Law is now!
There is the Former, Middle and Later Day of the Law"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy

"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews

"As I said, name calling. You name my real name, and refuse to use it."
Pat Matthews

"But what is just as important when you are achieving Buddhahood while not
chanting infron opf your gohonzon. cxan others recognize your Buddhahod
while you are walkign down the street?"
Pat Matthews Yahoo! Groups 8/15/03

"the SGI does not believe that the Dai-Gohonzon is the
supreme Gohonzon for all Gohonzon. Each Gohonzon is the same"
Pat Matthews
"I have always beleived I am a Bodhisattva of the Earth."
Pat Matthews

"We do not pray to the Dai-Gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"Devoting yourselves selflessly to kosen-rufu with the same spirit as Nichiren Daishonin,
you are truly Bodhisattvas of the Earth. You are Buddhas.
The Soka Gakkai is a gathering of the noblest Buddhas."
Daisaku Ikeda July 16 2003 speech WT Express Aug. 14, 2003 | No. 228

"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews

"I never stated I have *become* enlightened. I practice Nichiren Daishonin's
Buddhism. Maintaining a life-state in the World of Buddhahood or reflecting
your Buddhahood from whichever world you are currently in does not
constitute the statement that *' I am now a Buddha.
We are all are Buddha's. Shakyamuni Buddha expounded equality for all
species. Shakyamuni Buddha indicates that the life of common mortal and his
life are the same."
Pat Matthews, Ikeda cult patsy

"Everyone is the Buddha"
Charles Postne, follower of Ikeda

"Nichiren claims to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra and demands the
protection from the Buddha s and the Heavenly Beings, but he does not claim
to be the Original Buddha throughout time, he indicates that title is left
to the Immutable Law of Life itself, Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten
Worlds.
Our life and the life of the Myoho-renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten Worlds are
both one and the same."
Pat Matthews, follower of Ikeda

"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews

"I guess if you read this chapter you would find the Lotus Sutra is internal
in it's entirety! Long story short, it is all internal. The Lotus Sutra is
internal, All we have to do is chant with faith and we can see the body of
the Buddha, grasp the entire and complete wisdom of the Buddha."
Pat Matthews

"Something quite interesting I have read recently, is the understanding that
the practice of Christianity/Catholicism/Islam falls within the teachings of
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, from the perspective that they teach Heaven
is the end of their seeking mind"
Pat Matthews

"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews

"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"All forms of pain and suffering are evil."
Pat Matthews

"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews
Alias
2003-10-21 13:43:08 UTC
Permalink
"StraightCraig39&1/2" <***@nospam.com> wrote in

How I wish Kathy Ruby
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
and Jim Celer were still here, so we can tell them we told them so!
LOL!!!!
C
Don't worry, both of them read ARBN but know very well that they dare not
post for obvious reasons. When they unveil the "Ikeda Dai Gohonzon", neither
Kathy nor Jim will be here to say "we told you so".

Cody
Pat
2003-10-23 12:00:36 UTC
Permalink
WRONG. THE NST Seeks their enlightenment from HP Nikken.

Pat
Post by Derek N.P.F. Juhl
Post by Pat
item 2. Regarding seeking the Gohonzon. Nichiren states, "Never seek
this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal
flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."
I think this is pretty clear and straight-forward.
Yet SGI members seek Gohonzon outside of themselves, i.e., the
counterfeited honzon based on Nichikan Shonin's Gohonzon of Joenji.
Derek Juhl
Alias
2003-10-23 12:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
WRONG. THE NST Seeks their enlightenment from HP Nikken.
Pat
Really? News to me. Who told you that LIE?

Cody
Post by Pat
Post by Derek N.P.F. Juhl
Post by Pat
item 2. Regarding seeking the Gohonzon. Nichiren states, "Never seek
this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the
mortal
Post by Derek N.P.F. Juhl
Post by Pat
flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."
I think this is pretty clear and straight-forward.
Yet SGI members seek Gohonzon outside of themselves, i.e., the
counterfeited honzon based on Nichikan Shonin's Gohonzon of Joenji.
Derek Juhl
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 15:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
WRONG. THE NST Seeks their enlightenment from HP Nikken.
Pat
Now who's being judgemental Pat? You Ikeda cult followers are
all alike.
Post by Pat
I am only going to address the Writings of Nichiren daishonin only. The
rest is written by the priesthood and is slighted. Nichiren is the only word
of value in this dialogue.
I agree. Let's discuss Gosho only. I hope you can address these this time
Pat, because everytime we have posted them you seem to suddenly aquire
selective server problems and you miss them. Here they are again:

"The sutra explains that people in the latter day of the law will be arrogant,
though their knowledge of Buddhism is trifling, and will show disrespect for
the priest"

"Everyone appears to believe sincerely when he first embraces the Lotus Sutra,
but as time passes, he tends to become less devout; he no longer reveres nor
serves the priest and arrogantly forms distorted views. This is most
frightening."

"As for the debt owed to the Priesthood, both the treasure of the Buddha and the
treasure of the law are invariably perpetuated by priests. To illustrate,
without firewood, there can be no fire, and if there is no earth, trees and
plants cannot grow. Likewise, even though Buddhism existed, without the priests
who studied it and passed it on, it would never have been transmitted throughout
the two thousand years of the Former and Middle Days into the Later Day of the
Law. Therefore, the Daijuku Sutra states, 'Suppose that, in the fifth
five-hundred-year period, there should be someone who harasses unlearned monks
without precepts by accusing them of some offense. You should know this person
is extinguishing the great torch of buddhism'. Difficult to recompense indeed is
the debt we owe to the Priesthood!"
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-22 03:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Post by Alias
Post by Pat
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, I'll take a wild guess. Is it Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as embodied in the
Dai> Gohonzon?
No. Just Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All phenomena contain the Wonderful Law of
The Lotus Sutra, as a part of their existence, including rocks, trees, people, and
everything else within the universe.
Pat
If this concept is so simple, cut and dried as the Ikeda cult claims it
is, then a rock would be equal to the DaiGohonzon or anything else
for that matter. Would you chant to a rock, Pat?

"The important point, of course, is that gongyo is a choice...not a
requirement"
David Johnson, SGI member

"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy

"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews

"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews

"I can understand your problem. Sensei is trying to open your heart of
compassion to others."
Pat Matthews

"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews

"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews

'So, is a particular Gohonzon mandala necessary? Well, if it is, the
Dasihonin was quite unmerciful in not giving one to ALL of his followers.
...by "envisioning the ultimate reality", or "knowing that to see
one's mind is to see the Buddha" one is in the presence of the Buddha
and the Law. Which means you CAN manifest your faith and practice,
and achieve kyochi myogo, while looking at your computer screen.'
Jim Cub (arbn)

" I would try, to the best of my ability, to inscribe a Gohonzon,
in English if I had to. I would draw it on a cocktail napkin if
that was all I had, or paint it on the side of a mountain!"
Marilyn Carino (arbn)

"As for cocktail napkins, if there were nothing better available, and
one wanted to perpetuate the Law, one would use what is available that
allows them to act in the same mind as Nichiren."
Jim Celer

"I have admitted that there are gaps in my understanding
of what constitutes a valid Gohonzon - that is, I don't
know about Gohonzons inscribed on napkins or rutabagas"
Brian Holly (arbn)
Post by Pat
Did you ever figure out what makes a Gohonzon valid?
"You bet, it's when the little skinny guy in the gray dress waves his
magic wanger at it."
Brian Holly

"Opinions are all anybody has."
Brian Holly

"Buddhism is nothing but humanism."
Andrew357

"I could make some retort about the Nikken sect being only 9 years old,
but both the SGI and the Temple have firmly shown that Nichiren Show shoe
has not changed at all."
Chris Holte

"We finally have been apprised of what the other Sects of Buddhism have known
all along, that the provenance of the Dai Gohonzon is shrouded in Myth."
Chris Holte

"As long as we were part of Nichiren Shoshu we went along
with the idea that Gohonzon had to be authorized. Now that we are free,we can
"authorize" them ourselves."
Chris Holte

"NST seems worried we will have an Ikeda Sun Daigohonzon to replace
their Daigohonzon. Not a bad idea if you think about it."
Taichee Dee

"it is completely incorrect to continue thinking that the paper scroll
hanging in your butsudan is the source of benefit or lack thereof. It is your
FAITH ALONE (as manifested in your practice) that determines benefit."
Kathy Ruby

"It's kind of sad that the faith of your sect is so superficial that you can't
admit that a physical mandala is a "religious icon", and can't even address the
thought that Nichiren Daishonin didn't actually inscribe the Dai Gohonzon
himself."
Jim Celer

Demolishing temples is not a sin.
Building them is.
Julian Stevenson

"To say praying to the Gohonzon is the ONLY POSSIBLE way to manifest one's
Buddhahood, is to apply a restriction that the Daishonin did not."
Post by Pat
"Can SGI members now photograph the Gohonzon - and if not, why not ?"
"I can do whatever I please. This is not a "police religion" like NS."
S. A.
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 16:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Lil Mikey Cody,
I posted this subject. you have yet to provide anything beyond your
opinion. Your opinion is not worth a plugged nickel when it comes to
Nichiren's words. Truth time. Your opinion you can keep to yourself. Do
you know what the true aspect of all phenomena is? Read the gosho.
Pat
OK, let's do that. Let's start with the ones that the Ikeda cult vampires
tore out of their books

Nichiren Daishonin states in, "Four Debts of Gratitude,
"Therefore, it is expounded in the Daishukyo, 'Think of a person who, in the fifth five hundred year
period, torments priests with no wisdom and
no precepts, saying they are guilty of sins, as someone who is
extinguishing the great lamp of Buddhism."

The tenth chapter of the Lotus Sutra, "Master of the Law," states,
"In the evil age after my passing, should there be someone who skillfully embraces this sutra, you should
press your palms together in reverence and make offerings to him just as you would the World Honored
One. With all the choicest sweets and with various robes, you should make offerings to this child of the
Buddha with the desire to listen to him even for an instant. If these is someone who skillfully receives and
embraces this sutra in the later age, it means I have sent him to live among the people and to carry out the
work of the Thus Come One." (Myoho-renge-kyo Kaiketsu,page 388)

Letter to Niike
(MW Vol. I, pp. 253 - 262; Gosho Zenshu pp. 1439 - 1444)
Stop and ponder! How rare is the faith that moves one to give alms to a priest who knows the heart of the
Lotus Sutra! He will not stray into the evil paths if he does so even once. Still greater are the benefits
arising from ten or twenty contributions, or from five years, ten years, or a lifetime of contributions. They
are even beyond the measure of the Buddha's wisdom. The Buddha taught that the blessings of a single
offering to the votary of this sutra are a hundred thousand myriad times greater than those of offering
boundless treasure to Shakyamuni for more than eight billion aeons. When you embrace this sutra, you
will overflow with happiness and shed tears of joy. It seems impossible to repay our debt to Shakyamuni,
but by your frequent offerings to me deep in these mountains you will repay the merciful kindness of the
Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha. Strive ever harder in faith and never give in to negligence.
Everyone appears to believe sincerely when he first embraces the Lotus Sutra, but as time passes, he
tends to become less devout; he no longer reveres nor serves the priest and arrogantly forms distorted
views. This is most frightening. Be diligent in developing your faith until the last moment of your life.
Otherwise you will have regrets. For example, the journey from Kamakura to Kyoto takes twelve days. If
you travel for eleven but stop on the twelfth, how can you admire the moon over the capital? No matter
what, be close to the priest who knows the heart of the Lotus Sutra, keep learning from him the truth of
Buddhism and continue you journey of faith.
LTCMARCINMD
2003-10-19 17:01:58 UTC
Permalink
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. <<

I have not shared with you my personal "Opinions" of Buddhism. What I have
shared is the fact that the Gosho's that teach Hongaku ("Inherency dogma) have
never been authenticated as genuine. This should be worrisome to anyone who
wants to tie that idea to Nichiren not only because those Gosho are so
suspicious but because the idea itself is contradictory to what we find in
fully authenticated Gosho ... but feel free to believe in your heart whatever
you wish to. My only concern is what is being called "Nichiren Buddhism."
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood and who
could not.
Then yo have miss understood what I have said. In fact, only Nichiren Shoshu
differentiates between it's Priests which form an elite spiritual caste (not to
even mention their so called "High Priest") and normal Nichiren Buddhism which
sea's all beings as having the capacity to become enlightened. You have merely
misunderstood the process and the belief system Nichiren himself advocated.
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
"Faith" is a tricky term. In SGI and NST "faith" really means "Confidence" that
the magic words bring good luck. In actual Nichiren Buddhism "faith means
something altogether different.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
I didn't do that. Read again more slowly
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho.
You have mistaken me for someone else.
Post by Pat
The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
You have been warned. The Gosho you like was not really written by Nichiren
Daishonin. Buyer beware.

have a nice day
Pat
2003-10-20 00:53:24 UTC
Permalink
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the inherency of
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant not
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should study
the Gosho much more.

This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of all
phenomena!
Pat
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. <<
I have not shared with you my personal "Opinions" of Buddhism. What I have
shared is the fact that the Gosho's that teach Hongaku ("Inherency dogma) have
never been authenticated as genuine. This should be worrisome to anyone who
wants to tie that idea to Nichiren not only because those Gosho are so
suspicious but because the idea itself is contradictory to what we find in
fully authenticated Gosho ... but feel free to believe in your heart whatever
you wish to. My only concern is what is being called "Nichiren Buddhism."
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood and who
could not.
Then yo have miss understood what I have said. In fact, only Nichiren Shoshu
differentiates between it's Priests which form an elite spiritual caste (not to
even mention their so called "High Priest") and normal Nichiren Buddhism which
sea's all beings as having the capacity to become enlightened. You have merely
misunderstood the process and the belief system Nichiren himself advocated.
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
"Faith" is a tricky term. In SGI and NST "faith" really means "Confidence" that
the magic words bring good luck. In actual Nichiren Buddhism "faith means
something altogether different.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
I didn't do that. Read again more slowly
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho.
You have mistaken me for someone else.
Post by Pat
The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
You have been warned. The Gosho you like was not really written by Nichiren
Daishonin. Buyer beware.
have a nice day
Rob
2003-10-20 01:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Proof Positive that Pat does not read the posts that he is responding too.

Rob
Post by Pat
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the inherency of
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant not
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should study
the Gosho much more.
This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of all
phenomena!
Pat
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. <<
I have not shared with you my personal "Opinions" of Buddhism. What I have
shared is the fact that the Gosho's that teach Hongaku ("Inherency
dogma)
Post by Pat
have
Post by Pat
never been authenticated as genuine. This should be worrisome to anyone
who
Post by Pat
wants to tie that idea to Nichiren not only because those Gosho are so
suspicious but because the idea itself is contradictory to what we find in
fully authenticated Gosho ... but feel free to believe in your heart
whatever
Post by Pat
you wish to. My only concern is what is being called "Nichiren Buddhism."
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood
and
Post by Pat
who
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
could not.
Then yo have miss understood what I have said. In fact, only Nichiren
Shoshu
Post by Pat
differentiates between it's Priests which form an elite spiritual caste
(not to
Post by Pat
even mention their so called "High Priest") and normal Nichiren Buddhism
which
Post by Pat
sea's all beings as having the capacity to become enlightened. You have
merely
Post by Pat
misunderstood the process and the belief system Nichiren himself
advocated.
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
"Faith" is a tricky term. In SGI and NST "faith" really means
"Confidence"
Post by Pat
that
Post by Pat
the magic words bring good luck. In actual Nichiren Buddhism "faith means
something altogether different.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
I didn't do that. Read again more slowly
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho.
You have mistaken me for someone else.
Post by Pat
The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
You have been warned. The Gosho you like was not really written by
Nichiren
Post by Pat
Daishonin. Buyer beware.
have a nice day
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 16:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob
Proof Positive that Pat does not read the posts that he is responding too.
Rob
Why should a Buddha read anything? He knows it all already
Post by Rob
Post by Pat
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the inherency
of
Post by Pat
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant
not
Post by Pat
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should
study
Post by Pat
the Gosho much more.
This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of
all
Post by Pat
phenomena!
Pat
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. <<
I have not shared with you my personal "Opinions" of Buddhism. What I
have
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
shared is the fact that the Gosho's that teach Hongaku ("Inherency
dogma)
Post by Pat
have
Post by Pat
never been authenticated as genuine. This should be worrisome to anyone
who
Post by Pat
wants to tie that idea to Nichiren not only because those Gosho are so
suspicious but because the idea itself is contradictory to what we find
in
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
fully authenticated Gosho ... but feel free to believe in your heart
whatever
Post by Pat
you wish to. My only concern is what is being called "Nichiren
Buddhism."
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood
and
Post by Pat
who
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
could not.
Then yo have miss understood what I have said. In fact, only Nichiren
Shoshu
Post by Pat
differentiates between it's Priests which form an elite spiritual caste
(not to
Post by Pat
even mention their so called "High Priest") and normal Nichiren Buddhism
which
Post by Pat
sea's all beings as having the capacity to become enlightened. You have
merely
Post by Pat
misunderstood the process and the belief system Nichiren himself
advocated.
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
"Faith" is a tricky term. In SGI and NST "faith" really means
"Confidence"
Post by Pat
that
Post by Pat
the magic words bring good luck. In actual Nichiren Buddhism "faith
means
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
something altogether different.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
I didn't do that. Read again more slowly
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho.
You have mistaken me for someone else.
Post by Pat
The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
You have been warned. The Gosho you like was not really written by
Nichiren
Post by Pat
Daishonin. Buyer beware.
have a nice day
Pat
2003-10-20 19:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Rob,

I ignore ignorance. I do not bother to respond to garbage opinions. Proof
positive that you are mean spirited and trying to BULLY someone.

I have both he Gosho written before and after 199, as well as the Lotus
Sutra.. STOP ASSUMING SO MUCH, it makes you look poorly towards others.

Pat
Post by Rob
Proof Positive that Pat does not read the posts that he is responding too.
Rob
Post by Pat
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the
inherency
Post by Rob
of
Post by Pat
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant
not
Post by Pat
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should
study
Post by Pat
the Gosho much more.
This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of
all
Post by Pat
phenomena!
Pat
Post by Pat
The true aspect is the true aspect, period. your opinion is that, your
opinion. <<
I have not shared with you my personal "Opinions" of Buddhism. What I
have
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
shared is the fact that the Gosho's that teach Hongaku ("Inherency
dogma)
Post by Pat
have
Post by Pat
never been authenticated as genuine. This should be worrisome to anyone
who
Post by Pat
wants to tie that idea to Nichiren not only because those Gosho are so
suspicious but because the idea itself is contradictory to what we
find
Post by Rob
in
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
fully authenticated Gosho ... but feel free to believe in your heart
whatever
Post by Pat
you wish to. My only concern is what is being called "Nichiren
Buddhism."
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
I do not believe
Nichiren intended to differentiate about who could attain Buddhahood
and
Post by Pat
who
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
could not.
Then yo have miss understood what I have said. In fact, only Nichiren
Shoshu
Post by Pat
differentiates between it's Priests which form an elite spiritual caste
(not to
Post by Pat
even mention their so called "High Priest") and normal Nichiren Buddhism
which
Post by Pat
sea's all beings as having the capacity to become enlightened. You have
merely
Post by Pat
misunderstood the process and the belief system Nichiren himself
advocated.
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
All that is needed is Faith and Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
"Faith" is a tricky term. In SGI and NST "faith" really means
"Confidence"
Post by Pat
that
Post by Pat
the magic words bring good luck. In actual Nichiren Buddhism "faith
means
Post by Pat
Post by Pat
something altogether different.
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult.
I didn't do that. Read again more slowly
Post by Pat
Perhaps following blindly behind the robes of the priest has
effect your view of the Gosho.
You have mistaken me for someone else.
Post by Pat
The Gosho speak for themselves and there is
You have been warned. The Gosho you like was not really written by
Nichiren
Post by Pat
Daishonin. Buyer beware.
have a nice day
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 20:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Rob,
I ignore ignorance. I do not bother to respond to garbage opinions. Proof
positive that you are mean spirited and trying to BULLY someone.
Nice try, chump! You're the one who was bullying by getting angry
and telling Cody he was going to fall into hell for his opinion.
Post by Pat
I have both he Gosho written before and after 199, as well as the Lotus
Sutra.. STOP ASSUMING SO MUCH, it makes you look poorly towards others.
Pat
LOL! Look who's talking!

"You really should read the Gosho. The Later Day of the Law is now!
There is the Former, Middle and Later Day of the Law"
Pat Matthews, SGI patsy

"In understanding sensei's concerns and desires, and chanting
to make sensei's concerns my concerns, I can *gain* sensei's heart.
When I understand sensei's concerns and integrate them into my daily
life, I am truly walking step in step with sensei."
Pat Matthews

"As I said, name calling. You name my real name, and refuse to use it."
Pat Matthews

"But what is just as important when you are achieving Buddhahood while not
chanting infron opf your gohonzon. cxan others recognize your Buddhahod
while you are walkign down the street?"
Pat Matthews Yahoo! Groups 8/15/03

"the SGI does not believe that the Dai-Gohonzon is the
supreme Gohonzon for all Gohonzon. Each Gohonzon is the same"
Pat Matthews
"I have always beleived I am a Bodhisattva of the Earth."
Pat Matthews

"We do not pray to the Dai-Gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"Devoting yourselves selflessly to kosen-rufu with the same spirit as Nichiren Daishonin,
you are truly Bodhisattvas of the Earth. You are Buddhas.
The Soka Gakkai is a gathering of the noblest Buddhas."
Daisaku Ikeda July 16 2003 speech WT Express Aug. 14, 2003 | No. 228

"Perhaps you do not realise that we are all Buddha's"
Pat Matthews

"I never stated I have *become* enlightened. I practice Nichiren Daishonin's
Buddhism. Maintaining a life-state in the World of Buddhahood or reflecting
your Buddhahood from whichever world you are currently in does not
constitute the statement that *' I am now a Buddha.
We are all are Buddha's. Shakyamuni Buddha expounded equality for all
species. Shakyamuni Buddha indicates that the life of common mortal and his
life are the same."
Pat Matthews, Ikeda cult patsy

"Everyone is the Buddha"
Charles Postne, follower of Ikeda

"Nichiren claims to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra and demands the
protection from the Buddha s and the Heavenly Beings, but he does not claim
to be the Original Buddha throughout time, he indicates that title is left
to the Immutable Law of Life itself, Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten
Worlds.
Our life and the life of the Myoho-renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten Worlds are
both one and the same."
Pat Matthews, follower of Ikeda

"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews

"I guess if you read this chapter you would find the Lotus Sutra is internal
in it's entirety! Long story short, it is all internal. The Lotus Sutra is
internal, All we have to do is chant with faith and we can see the body of
the Buddha, grasp the entire and complete wisdom of the Buddha."
Pat Matthews

"Something quite interesting I have read recently, is the understanding that
the practice of Christianity/Catholicism/Islam falls within the teachings of
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, from the perspective that they teach Heaven
is the end of their seeking mind"
Pat Matthews

"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews

"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews

"All forms of pain and suffering are evil."
Pat Matthews

"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra,
he never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews
LTCMARCINMD
2003-10-20 14:22:06 UTC
Permalink
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the inherency of
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant not
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should study
the Gosho much more.
<<

er..Okay... I'll try harder
Post by Pat
This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of all
phenomena!
Did you read my reply to you or do you just read your own posts? The SGI idea
about "everyone being a Buddha on the inside", comes from Gosho not likely
written by Nichiren. I understand that it takes awhile for SGI and NST members
to face up being misled about what Nichiren taught. But if you stick to
Nichiren's unimpeachable Gosho's, they teach something different from the hooey
you have heard in the SGI.
Pat
2003-10-20 20:05:13 UTC
Permalink
'On the Treasure Tower'
"In your letter you ask: "What is signified by the Treasure Tower, where
Taho Buddha was seated, appearing from within the earth?" The appearance of
this bejeweled stupa [in the eleventh chapter of the Lotus Sutra] is of
great importance. In the eighth volume of his Hokke Mongu, the Great Teacher
T'ien-t'ai explained the appearance of the Treasure Tower. He states that it
had two distinct functions: to lend credence to the preceding chapters and
to pave the way for the revelation to come. Thus, the Treasure Tower
appeared in order to verify the theoretical teaching and to introduce the
essential teaching. To put it another way, the closed Tower symbolizes the
theoretical teaching and the open Tower, the essential teaching. This
represents the two principles of object (kyo) and subject (chi), or reality
and wisdom. However, this is extremely complex, so I will not go into
further detail now. In essence, the appearance of the Treasure Tower
indicates that the three groups of Shakyamuni's disciples attained
enlightenment only when they heard the Lotus Sutra and perceived the
Treasure Tower within their own lives. Now Nichiren's disciples are doing
the same. In the Latter Day of the Law, there is no Treasure Tower other
than the figures of the men and women who embrace the Lotus Sutra. It
follows, therefore, that those who chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, irrespective
of social status, are themselves the Treasure Tower and likewise they
themselves are Taho Buddha. There is no Treasure Tower other than
Myoho-renge-kyo. The daimoku of the Lotus Sutra is the Treasure Tower, that
is to say, the Treasure Tower is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

Now the entire body of Abutsu Shonin is composed of the five universal
elements of earth, water, fire, wind and ku. These five elements are also
the five characters of the daimoku. Therefore, Abutsu-bo is the Treasure
Tower itself, and the Treasure Tower is Abutsu-bo himself. No other
knowledge is purposeful. It is the Treasure Tower adorned with seven kinds
of gems - listening to the true teaching, believing it, keeping the precept,
attaining peace of mind, practicing assiduously, unselfishly devoting
oneself, and forever seeking self improvement. You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)


How many Gosho are you going to change. The true aspect of all phenomena,
The Opening of the Eyes, and a few more that come to mind. I guess that is
how the NST refutes, calling everything a lie. That does not work, and does
not even deserve a response.

I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.

Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction."

Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?

Patrick
Post by Pat
the true aspect is Nam-Myoho-renge-Kyo. All things contain the inherency of
Buddhahood. Read the gosho and learn for yourself. you sound ignorant not
knowing the core of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. you really should study
the Gosho much more.
<<
er..Okay... I'll try harder
Post by Pat
This is Nichiren's opinion,not mine. Read the Gosho, the true aspect of all
phenomena!
Did you read my reply to you or do you just read your own posts? The SGI idea
about "everyone being a Buddha on the inside", comes from Gosho not likely
written by Nichiren. I understand that it takes awhile for SGI and NST members
to face up being misled about what Nichiren taught. But if you stick to
Nichiren's unimpeachable Gosho's, they teach something different from the hooey
you have heard in the SGI.
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 20:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and weak. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas.
But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
LTCMARCINMD
2003-10-20 23:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
the appearance of the Treasure Tower
indicates that the three groups of Shakyamuni's disciples attained
enlightenment only when they heard the Lotus Sutra and perceived the
Treasure Tower within their own lives. Now Nichiren's disciples are doing
the same. In the Latter Day of the Law, there is no Treasure Tower other
than the figures of the men and women who embrace the Lotus Sutra. <<

Read carefully now and you will learn about how Nichiren Buddhist metaphysics
work

FIRST ... you take faith in ..Hear... the Lotus Sutra... THEN enlightenment is
naturally transferred to the believer.

First comes a transcendent faith in the Hokekyo/Eternal Life of the Buddha
Shakyamuni .....Then, the Buddha becomes our "very flesh and bones"

It is the indwelling of the Buddha that is the cause of enlightenment and this
can only be done via faith in the Buddha/Dharma. In earlier times the seed of
enlightenment was already present in people due to prior contact with the
Buddha/dharma but not so in Mappo. Therefore, faith alone is the cause plants
the seed within your life... Nichiren does not preach your
Tendai/ SGI /Hongaku inherency doctrine.

Here is a short Gosho that clearly indicates what Nichiren's was thinking of:

Letter to Lord Matsuno's Wife

In turbid water the moon does not abide; in a withered tree there are no
birds. In the body of a woman without a mind [of faith] the Buddha does not
abide. A woman who keeps the Hokekyô is like clear water: the moon of the
Buddha Shakya takes up
residence [there]. For example, although, when a woman is first pregnant, she
is not aware of it in her own body, as the months gradually add up and the days
repeatedly pass, she first wonders if it is so and
later thinks that it is certain. A woman of thought even knows whether it is a
boy or a girl. The doctrine of the Hokekyô is also thus. When one believes
'Namu Myôhô renge kyô' in one's mind, the
Buddha Shakya is conceived with the mind as His lodging. Though at first one
does not know it, as the months gradually add up, the Buddha in one's mind
appears in dreams and a joyful mind gradually emerges.
STN, v. 2, 1792 (tr. H.G. Lamont)
Mark P.
2003-10-21 01:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by LTCMARCINMD
Read carefully now and you will learn about how Nichiren Buddhist metaphysics
work
The fact that you see the practice as metaphysics only reveals
that you have no understanding at all.


Mark Porter

Others read the Lotus Sutra with their mouths alone,
reading only the words, but do not read it with their
hearts. And even if they read it with their hearts,
they do not read it with their actions.
MarcInMD
2003-10-21 15:49:38 UTC
Permalink
The fact that you see the practice as metaphysics only reveals
that you have no understanding at all.
<<

How so.. ? You must have some idea of how Buddhism operates within your life
and within the universe as a whole. No?
Nichiren Buddhism does not operate the way NST and SGI say it does if you read
the Gosho and dont go blind ever other page or use highly dubious Gosho.

Which part of this seem unreasonable to you? What do yo suppose is going on
when you chant ?
Mark P.
2003-10-21 19:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarcInMD
Nichiren Buddhism does not operate the way NST and SGI say it does if you read
the Gosho and dont go blind ever other page or use highly dubious Gosho.
Read up on Ichinen Sanzen Marc. You aren't going to heaven.
Post by MarcInMD
Which part of this seem unreasonable to you? What do yo suppose is going on
when you chant ?
You are making the cause for enlightenment which changes your
karma.



Mark Porter

Others read the Lotus Sutra with their mouths alone,
reading only the words, but do not read it with their
hearts. And even if they read it with their hearts,
they do not read it with their actions.
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-21 19:42:57 UTC
Permalink
PLEASE DO NOT PLAY THE BROKEN RECORDS!

thank you
Post by Mark P.
Post by MarcInMD
Nichiren Buddhism does not operate the way NST and SGI say it does if you read
the Gosho and dont go blind ever other page or use highly dubious Gosho.
Read up on Ichinen Sanzen Marc. You aren't going to heaven.
Post by MarcInMD
Which part of this seem unreasonable to you? What do yo suppose is going on
when you chant ?
You are making the cause for enlightenment which changes your
karma.
Mark Porter
Others read the Lotus Sutra with their mouths alone,
reading only the words, but do not read it with their
hearts. And even if they read it with their hearts,
they do not read it with their actions.
dc
2003-10-21 03:04:28 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.

Marc this statement from the Lotus Sutra is in complete accord with the
Shoho Jisso Sho and vice versa and completly destroys your silly argument.
The Sutra says that many will have no good roots....no where does it say
ALL.


"If Nichiren should be a Bodhisattva of the Earth, then so must his
disciples. The Hosshi chapter states, "If there is someone, whether man or
woman, who secretly teaches to one person even a single phrase of the Lotus
Sutra, let it be known that he is the envoy of the Buddha, sent to carry out
the Buddha's work." Who else but us can this possibly refer to?"

and


"I must have been at the ceremony in the air. There can be no discontinuity
between past, present and future."-Nichiren Shoho Jisso Sho


You talk and talk, claiming you prove your thesis, but in reality you are
only twsiting things to meet a bizarre agenda based on concrete thinking, as
though Nichiren was a idiot savant.

And of course for what you say to be true that ALL people in the "Latter
Day" have no connection to Buddhism then that denies that any Bodhisattvas
"emerge from the earth." as they promised....and of course all the othee
bodhisattvas who promised to teach the Lotus Sutra in all those years after
Shakayamuni, must have lied as well, since no one ever heard of the Lotus
Sutra in all those years.

Of course you will not answer these obvious points, because there is nothing
you can say.

dc
MarcInMD
2003-10-21 16:00:42 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.<<

So? The Buddha and his Dharma are identical...

BTW. The jinriki chapter is known as the "Entrust of the Dharma" chapter. It
....TRANSFERS ... from.. the Buddha.. to... the Bodhaisttva's of the Earth the
Dharma. The Bodhisattvas were not already Buddha's inherently but needed to be
given the Dharma.

It helps to actually read the Sutra
Post by dc
Marc this statement from the Lotus Sutra is in complete accord with the
Shoho Jisso Sho and vice versa and completly destroys your silly argument.
If you say so... How? If you dont mind me asking.

. Marc
dc
2003-10-21 16:59:35 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.<<

So? The Buddha and his Dharma are identical...

BTW. The jinriki chapter is known as the "Entrust of the Dharma" chapter. It
....TRANSFERS ... from.. the Buddha.. to... the Bodhaisttva's of the Earth
the
Dharma. The Bodhisattvas were not already Buddha's inherently but needed to
be
given the Dharma.

It helps to actually read the Sutra<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Yes it might help Marc. You don't even have the TITLE right.

This quote above from the Jinriki--which is the Mystical power of the Buddha
chapter......NOT the "Entrustment Chapter." as you say above, which is the
next chapter in the Kumarajiva version. and the last Chapter from the extant
Sanskrit vesion.
Post by dc
Marc this statement from the Lotus Sutra is in complete accord with the
Shoho Jisso Sho and vice versa and completly destroys your silly argument.
If you say so... How? If you dont mind me asking.

. Marc <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



The argument you have made is that there is NO former connection, no "Buddha
Seed" in anyone in Mappo. You use this to besmerch the Shoho Jisso Sho.

Yet the Bodhisatvas of the earth "emerge from the earth." and they have
clearly a long past relationship with "buddha." since they were said to have
been "trained" for so long a period of time. This quote from the Sutra
also goes further and say:

"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

This is identical to the passage in the gosho when Nichiren says that they
MUST be bodhissatvas of the earth by virtue of chanting the Daimoku.
Post by dc
"The Bodhisattvas were not already Buddha's inherently but needed to be
given the Dharma."<<<

And when did this event take place? In the Sutra they received the Sutra
from the "Buddha" long ago---exactly as the Shoho Jiso Sho states. AND
without inherent Buddha Nature----THEN there would be no way a person
hearing the LAW, could activate something that was not there. The person's
inner life reponds to the "buddha" and the "buddha" responds to the inner
desire of the people. This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.

This is fundamental to Buddhism and fundamental to the Lotus Sutra, where
the very act of "upholding the sutra" means they have already heard the law
from the Buddha.

IN FACT. Even the "provisional bodhisattvas" had previously heard the law
in another time as is mde clear in the Introduction chapter. and they were
no where near as advanced as the Bodhisattvas of the earth, who specifically
apear in the Latter time period.

In the Lotus Sutra it makes clear that the Lotus Sutra was taught in the
past by ALL Buddhas.

The Lotus Sutra reveal a NON-LINEAR nature to time. By being a literalist
you miss all this. The meaning of "seen me" means inherent BECAUSE this
"ceremony" is ALWAYS taking place. IT IS SIMULTANEOUS not LINEAR. That is
what the Sutra means.

Nichiren siad , "You must be a Bodhisattva of the earth......." just by
virtue of practising and upholding the Law.


Thus, your argument is lost and forever crushed.

The Shoho Jisso Sho Gosho stands.

dc
dc
2003-10-21 17:23:42 UTC
Permalink
When the "buddha" says, "A Law which in the past was never heard
you will now be able to hear." He is speaking to the provisional
bodhsattvas who are perplexed by seeing the "Bodhisattvas of the Earth"

And yet even the Lotus Sutra has a internal contradiction since the SAME
provisional Bodhisttvas, say in the Introductory chapter:


Manjusri answers Maiterya's question in Chapter ONE:

"Maitreya, you should understand this. Bodhisattva Wonderfully Bright who
lived then-could he be known to you? He was no other than I myself. And
Bodhisattva Seeker of Fame was you."

"Now when I see this auspicious portent, it is no different from what I saw
before. Therefore I suppose that now the Thus Come One is about to preach
the Great Vehicle sutra called the Lotus of the Wonderful Law, a Law to
instruct the bodhisattvas, one that is guarded and kept in mind by the
Buddhas."



THEREFORE even the provisional bodhsattvas had in the past heard the Lotus
Sutra. Since Manjusri reminds Maitreya that he too heard the Lotus Sutra
in the past in a different lifetime, then this contradicts the statement "A
Law which in the past was never heard
you will now be able to hear." Clearly these provisional Bodhisattvas had
heard the Lotus Sutra and clearly the Bodhisattvas of the Earth had also
heard the Lotus Sutra in the past.

The key to understanding this contradiction is to realize that the Lotus
Sutra is a writing created in the first two centuries AD, by philosophers
using literary license to attempt to describe non-linear causation and
inherent Buddhahood. Naturally, being a work from human hands,
contradictions can appear in words, and it will not be perfect, because
words oftene lack precision. IF one attempts to understand it using
LITERALISTIC and CONCRETE thinking they will go crazy.

The Lotus Sutra has internal contradictions when view literally. One must
be able to read a deeper meaning and realize how it relates to one's own
iner Buddha nature. Add to this the fundamental concept of ichinen sanzen
and the idea of Jikkai Goju and it is clear that the TENTH life STATE of
buddha ALWAYS exists within ALL beings, just like every tiny piece of a
hologram contain ALL the information.



All of this comes from the inner experience of the authors of Mahayana and
the sutras are their attempts to explain things METAPHORICLLY.

dc
dc
2003-10-21 17:23:44 UTC
Permalink
When the "buddha" says, "A Law which in the past was never heard
you will now be able to hear." He is speaking to the provisional
bodhsattvas who are perplexed by seeing the "Bodhisattvas of the Earth"

And yet even the Lotus Sutra has a internal contradiction since the SAME
provisional Bodhisttvas, say in the Introductory chapter:


Manjusri answers Maiterya's question in Chapter ONE:

"Maitreya, you should understand this. Bodhisattva Wonderfully Bright who
lived then-could he be known to you? He was no other than I myself. And
Bodhisattva Seeker of Fame was you."

"Now when I see this auspicious portent, it is no different from what I saw
before. Therefore I suppose that now the Thus Come One is about to preach
the Great Vehicle sutra called the Lotus of the Wonderful Law, a Law to
instruct the bodhisattvas, one that is guarded and kept in mind by the
Buddhas."



THEREFORE even the provisional bodhsattvas had in the past heard the Lotus
Sutra. Since Manjusri reminds Maitreya that he too heard the Lotus Sutra
in the past in a different lifetime, then this contradicts the statement "A
Law which in the past was never heard
you will now be able to hear." Clearly these provisional Bodhisattvas had
heard the Lotus Sutra and clearly the Bodhisattvas of the Earth had also
heard the Lotus Sutra in the past.

The key to understanding this contradiction is to realize that the Lotus
Sutra is a writing created in the first two centuries AD, by philosophers
using literary license to attempt to describe non-linear causation and
inherent Buddhahood. Naturally, being a work from human hands,
contradictions can appear in words, and it will not be perfect, because
words oftene lack precision. IF one attempts to understand it using
LITERALISTIC and CONCRETE thinking they will go crazy.

The Lotus Sutra has internal contradictions when view literally. One must
be able to read a deeper meaning and realize how it relates to one's own
iner Buddha nature. Add to this the fundamental concept of ichinen sanzen
and the idea of Jikkai Goju and it is clear that the TENTH life STATE of
buddha ALWAYS exists within ALL beings, just like every tiny piece of a
hologram contain ALL the information.



All of this comes from the inner experience of the authors of Mahayana and
the sutras are their attempts to explain things METAPHORICLLY.

dc
MarcInMD
2003-10-21 17:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Yes it might help Marc. You don't even have the TITLE right.<

Read for content.. I did not say that was it's TITLE... I said it was known as
the entrustment of the Dharma section ( actually chap 21 and 22) You can look
it up if you want to
Post by dc
This quote above from the Jinriki--which is the Mystical power of the Buddha
chapter......NOT the "Entrustment Chapter."
See above.. What happens in that chapter is the entrustment of the Dharma from
the Buddha to the Bodhaisattvas. Can you not see the dual relationship in that
action FROM the Buddha TO the Bodhisattvas'?.
Post by dc
he argument you have made is that there is NO former connection, no "Buddha
Seed" in anyone in Mappo. You use this to besmerch the Shoho Jisso Sho.
I "Besmeached" nothing.That Gosho was not likely written by Nichiren. If you
haved managed to authentice it, please publish a paper or something. I am just
pointing out that you must rely on very dubious Gosho in order to rationalize
NST/SGI idea's. And that's a fact.

According to Nichiren, people living in Mappo have had no prior contact wih the
Buddha or at best they have ruined the seed of enlightenment.

Nichiren Buddhist time works in reverse. During the time the Buddha walked the
Earth, enlightenment was easiest. In the next age, Zobo, people still had the
seed and could practice based on wisdom
( meditation, etc). In Mappo, people need to experience an initial contact with
the Buddha/Daharma ( which is why you try to get any random person to chant the
Daimoku at least a couple of times). Practicing via wisdom is no longer
possible so faith replaces wisdom.

Read the Gosho "The Five Stages of Faith and the Four Levels of Practice ."
I will try to copy the relevant sections for you later.

Welcome to Nichiren Buddhism.
Post by dc
And when did this event take place? In the Sutra they received the Sutra
from the "Buddha" long ago--
Er.."long ago" would be my answer then.
Post by dc
xactly as the Shoho Jiso Sho states. AND
without inherent Buddha Nature----
We are not discussing "Buddha-Nature." Nichiren Shoshu misdefines "Buddha
Nature" as being THE Buddha. The Buddha is the Buddha, Your Buddha Nature is
your CAPACITY to become a Buddha.
Post by dc
This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.
Right.. That is not Nichiren Buddhism, That is Tendai Shu Hongaku Buddhism. The
seed is inherent and your job is to "Wake it up" or "realize " this preexisting
condition. I get it. It's a very popular recipe. Just don't call it "Nichiren
Buddhism" because it isn't.
Post by dc
In the Lotus Sutra it makes clear that the Lotus Sutra was taught in the
past by ALL Buddhas.
So? Some people in Zobo had the seed from hearing the Dharma from other
Buddha's ( long ago). That is still a dualistic formulation. Your Hongaku
heresy is purely monistic.
dc
2003-10-22 06:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Yes it might help Marc. You don't even have the TITLE right.<

Read for content.. I did not say that was it's TITLE... I said it was known
as
the entrustment of the Dharma section ( actually chap 21 and 22) You can
look
it up if you want to<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Marc if you read anything for content I would be shocked. I have posted
about the two chapters many times and how they relate to specific and genral
transmission, It is not called the "Entrustment Chapter" no matter how you
spin it. It details the Bodhisattvas of the Earth and the provisional
Bodhisattvas, Pledging to spread the Law and the Buddha producing the Long
Broad Tongue.

You said that is called THE "Entrustment Chapter".

NO, Marc it is called the Mystic power of the Buddha Chapter.
Post by dc
This quote above from the Jinriki--which is the Mystical power of the Buddha
chapter......NOT the "Entrustment Chapter."
See above.. What happens in that chapter is the entrustment of the Dharma
from
the Buddha to the Bodhaisattvas. Can you not see the dual relationship in
that
action FROM the Buddha TO the Bodhisattvas'?<<<<<<<<<<

Regardless it is not THE "Entrustment Chapter." which is the following
chapter.
Post by dc
he argument you have made is that there is NO former connection, no "Buddha
Seed" in anyone in Mappo. You use this to besmerch the Shoho Jisso Sho.
I "Besmeached" nothing.That Gosho<<<<<<<<<<<<<

No? You are simply besmerching one of the greatest writing of Nichiren
Daishonin, with your silly ideas about non-inherent Buddhahood again. You
use that as your way to destroy gosho that do not fit into your agenda.
Post by dc
was not likely written by Nichiren.<<<<<<<<<<
Bullcrap. According to some people who get stuck in words.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by Alias
If you
haved managed to authentice it, please publish a paper or something. I am
just
pointing out that you must rely on very dubious Gosho in order to
rationalize
NST/SGI idea's. And that's a fact.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\

Al Nichiren Sects considered it authentic until a couple fake Japanese
goldfish bowl scholars decided to attack Ichinen sanzen.

Your attacks on inherency of buddha nature is nothing but a denial of
Ichinen Sanzen and an attack on the most basic point of Buddhism, that
distinguishes it from the erroneous explanations of Hinduism and
Christianity---that god and common mortal are not one....That the buddha is
not a person.....that the human is a subordinate to GOD/Buddha.

You do this by mischaracterizing, a "buddha" as a special being apart from
people. It is a word game that is based in inability to comprehend the
Middle Way---which is an even more basic, underlying principle of
buddhism--even more basic then Ichinen Sanzen.

It is an age-old argument---one which Ichinen Sanzen put to an end.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
According to Nichiren, people living in Mappo have had no prior contact wih the
Buddha or at best they have ruined the seed of
enlightenment.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Baloney. That would OMIT the bodhisattvas of the Earth as well. You do not
understand Metaphor.

As I just posted the Lotus Sutra itself, saying:

"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

THUS this refers to non-linear causation and a non-linear understanding of
the so called "Buddha seed."

IT Means it is simultaneous.



There are more gosho statements that speak of Buddha nature within then
there are, when he uses the expression that "people in Mappo do not have
the seed of Buddhahood." When he makes those kind of statements he speaking
generally, in terms of ignorant people---but what he means by this is that
many people do not REALIZE their true identity is that of a Buddha so they
do not seek enlightement. They do not realize the inherent nature of
Buddhahood within them. He is referring to a theory that was said to be
taught by Dengyo, that people in the Latter Day have forgotten their
inherent Buddha Nature. This is so basic, only a person without any
awareness of their own "Buddha" nature would make the kinds of statements
you make.
Post by dc
Nichiren Buddhist time works in reverse. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
What part of "simultaneous" do you not understand.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by Alias
Post by MarcInMD
During the time the Buddha walked the
Earth, enlightenment was easiest.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Pure, superstitious, boilerplate horsecrap. They must have been terribly
selfish forgetting to even teach the Lotus Sutra especially after promising
they would. They would have already done Kosen Rufu many centuries ago.
Use your head. This is nonsense....even when Nichiren says it.....he is
referring to the clear loss of popularity of Buddhism. Exactly the reason
the authors of the Mahayana rekindled Buddhism by making it more of a faith
based religion, borrowing the metaphysical ideas from the popular
Upanishads, which taught of an Eternal Nature to all beings----something
Gautama NEVER taught and when asked about, changed the subject saying this
was not relevent.

The authors of the Lotus Sutra KNEW that Buddhism has deteriorated into
monastic nothingness...and had already been dethroned as far as people in
general were concerned., so they create the idea of the time periods. The
entire idea of the "eternal buddha," is just a restatement of Upansishadic
beliefs, substituting the word "buddha:" for god. None of the actual
teachings of Gautama had said anything like this at all. In fact Gautama's
teachings were the teaching of Anatman and extinction. they did not discuss
"eternal life," in the slightest.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by Alias
In the next age, Zobo, people still had the
seed and could practice based on wisdom <<<<<<<<<<

Just dogma with no basis specific baisis in the Lotus Sutra. The main
source of this is a document is a writing attributed to Dengyo that the same
scholars who believe all those goshos are forged ------believe it was forged
as well. Whether Dengyo wrote it or not...he had also written many other
things which clearly contradict things said in the "Candle of the Latter
Day."

Nichiren, Shinran and many other at the time, believed it was Dengyo whio
wrote this. The periods of the Buddha as you have stated it was a Mahayana
teaching, loosely based on the later Pali myths mixed in with the real
Gautama teachings, Maha-parinibbana Sutta. the Mahapadana Sutta and other
Nikayas, which were nealry as far removed from Gautama Buddha as Mahayana
sutras. and incorporate traditional Indian ideas of the cycles of
time---something Gautama would only have spoken about in stories of Indian
Myth..... so that people of his day could understand him. It is borrowed
from Hindusim/Brahmanism and then later the Pali Sutras had turned the
Buddha into a incarnated Avatar virtually the same way Hinduism
did---completly ignoring Gautama's actual teachings.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
( meditation, etc). In Mappo, people need to experience an initial contact with
the Buddha/Daharma ( which is why you try to get any random person to chant
the
Daimoku at least a couple of times). Practicing via wisdom is no longer
possible so faith replaces wisdom.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The way you talk about this turns it into concrete. And you can't see the
obvious. If no one in Mappo has a connection then no one could teach it.
No Nichiren or anyone....no Bodhasattva of the earth could either. You are
turning it into a black and white rule and then missing the real
meaning---which was, that in Nichiren day, Japan was a totally insane
country---thus a good time to pull out the latter day idea.

Nichiren himself was naive to the actual limit of Gautama's teachings. He
was faced with 90% historical errors and recension after recension It was
impossible for him to know differnt although I suspect that in his heart he
knew the truth. He wasa idealist and also was stuck in a country with many
muths and beliefs that had gotten out of control. naturally he had to speak
in terms familiar to people and use various expedients.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Read the Gosho "The Five Stages of Faith and the Four Levels of Practice ."
I will try to copy the relevant sections for you later. <<<<<

Like I don't know it like the back of my hand?

Welcome to Nichiren Buddhism. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Welcome to Marc's nightmare of a diembodied Budda cuddling his soul in His
arms...rocking him to sleep.
Post by dc
And when did this event take place? In the Sutra they received the Sutra
from the "Buddha" long ago--
Er.."long ago" would be my answer then.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Then they DID in fact meet the buddha and therefore had a seed already. And
they even promised to teach it....(its all a metaphor for an internal thing)
Post by dc
xactly as the Shoho Jiso Sho states. AND
without inherent Buddha Nature----
You chop up my sentences so as to obscure what I actually wrote.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
We are not discussing "Buddha-Nature." Nichiren Shoshu misdefines "Buddha
Nature" as being THE Buddha. The Buddha is the Buddha, Your Buddha Nature is
your CAPACITY to become a Buddha.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

We aren't...discussing Buddha Nature.? coulda fooled me.

Your entire range of thought revolves around separating Buddha from all
beings.
Post by dc
This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.
Right.. That is not Nichiren Buddhism, That is Tendai Shu Hongaku Buddhism.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

The circular avodence pattern of Marc Strumpf. The labels .....the
nonsense. The fixations.

THE DENIAL OF ICHINEN SANZEN,
Post by dc
The seed is inherent and your job is to "Wake it up" or "realize "
this preexisting
condition. I get it. It's a very popular recipe. Just don't call it
"Nichiren
Buddhism" because it isn't.<<<<<<<<<<<

How absurd. Not only is it Nichiren Buddhism, it is throughout all Mahayana
except the Nembutsu interpretations.which you clearly are trying to turn
Nichiren's teachings into.
Post by dc
In the Lotus Sutra it makes clear that the Lotus Sutra was taught in the
past by ALL Buddhas.
So? Some people in Zobo had the seed from hearing the Dharma from other
Buddha's ( long ago). That is still a dualistic formulation. Your Hongaku
heresy is purely monistic.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Dualistic and monistic? Interesting. Marc your concrete and juvenile
interpretations are nonsense. Better go look up these words you silly
insurance guy,

"Dualism," is exactly what you are doing in separating Buddha and
people/beings into two separate spheres.

Try the Middle Way. That is one thing. Real Nichiren Buddhims does not
believe in a God/Buddha-being outside of ones own true self.



dc
dc
2003-10-22 06:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
During the time the Buddha walked the
Earth, enlightenment was easiest.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Pure, superstitious, boilerplate horsecrap. They must have been terribly
selfish forgetting to even teach the Lotus Sutra especially after promising
they would. They would have already done Kosen Rufu many centuries ago.
Use your head. This is nonsense....even when Nichiren says it.....he is
referring to the clear loss of popularity of Buddhism. Exactly the reason
the authors of the Mahayana rekindled Buddhism by making it more of a faith
based religion, borrowing the metaphysical ideas from the popular
Upanishads, which taught of an Eternal Nature to all beings----something
Gautama NEVER taught and when asked about, changed the subject saying this
was not relevent.

The authors of the Lotus Sutra KNEW that Buddhism has deteriorated into
monastic nothingness...and had already been dethroned as far as people in
general were concerned., so they create the idea of the time periods. The
entire idea of the "eternal buddha," is just a restatement of Upansishadic
beliefs, substituting the word "buddha:" for god. None of the actual
teachings of Gautama had said anything like this at all. In fact Gautama's
teachings were the teaching of Anatman and extinction. they did not discuss
"eternal life," in the slightest.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
In the next age, Zobo, people still had the
seed and could practice based on wisdom <<<<<<<<<<

Just dogma with no basis specific baisis in the Lotus Sutra. The main
source of this is a document is a writing attributed to Dengyo that the same
scholars who believe all those goshos are forged ------believe it was forged
as well. Whether Dengyo wrote it or not...he had also written many other
things which clearly contradict things said in the "Candle of the Latter
Day."

Nichiren, Shinran and many other at the time, believed it was Dengyo whio
wrote this. The periods of the Buddha as you have stated it was a Mahayana
teaching, loosely based on the later Pali myths mixed in with the real
Gautama teachings, Maha-parinibbana Sutta. the Mahapadana Sutta and other
Nikayas, which were nealry as far removed from Gautama Buddha as Mahayana
sutras. and incorporate traditional Indian ideas of the cycles of
time---something Gautama would only have spoken about in stories of Indian
Myth..... so that people of his day could understand him. It is borrowed
from Hindusim/Brahmanism and then later the Pali Sutras had turned the
Buddha into a incarnated Avatar virtually the same way Hinduism
did---completly ignoring Gautama's actual teachings.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
( meditation, etc). In Mappo, people need to experience an initial contact with
the Buddha/Daharma ( which is why you try to get any random person to chant
the
Daimoku at least a couple of times). Practicing via wisdom is no longer
possible so faith replaces wisdom.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The way you talk about this turns it into concrete. And you can't see the
obvious. If no one in Mappo has a connection then no one could teach it.
No Nichiren or anyone....no Bodhasattva of the earth could either. You are
turning it into a black and white rule and then missing the real
meaning---which was, that in Nichiren day, Japan was a totally insane
country---thus a good time to pull out the latter day idea.

Nichiren himself was naive to the actual limit of Gautama's teachings. He
was faced with 90% historical errors and recension after recension It was
impossible for him to know differnt although I suspect that in his heart he
knew the truth. He wasa idealist and also was stuck in a country with many
muths and beliefs that had gotten out of control. naturally he had to speak
in terms familiar to people and use various expedients.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Read the Gosho "The Five Stages of Faith and the Four Levels of Practice ."
I will try to copy the relevant sections for you later. <<<<<

Like I don't know it like the back of my hand?

Welcome to Nichiren Buddhism. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Welcome to Marc's nightmare of a diembodied Budda cuddling his soul in His
arms...rocking him to sleep.
Post by dc
And when did this event take place? In the Sutra they received the Sutra
from the "Buddha" long ago--
Er.."long ago" would be my answer then.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Then they DID in fact meet the buddha and therefore had a seed already. And
they even promised to teach it....(its all a metaphor for an internal thing)
Post by dc
xactly as the Shoho Jiso Sho states. AND
without inherent Buddha Nature----
You chop up my sentences so as to obscure what I actually wrote.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
We are not discussing "Buddha-Nature." Nichiren Shoshu misdefines "Buddha
Nature" as being THE Buddha. The Buddha is the Buddha, Your Buddha Nature is
your CAPACITY to become a Buddha.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

We aren't...discussing Buddha Nature.? coulda fooled me.

Your entire range of thought revolves around separating Buddha from all
beings.
Post by dc
This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.
Right.. That is not Nichiren Buddhism, That is Tendai Shu Hongaku Buddhism.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

The circular avodence pattern of Marc Strumpf. The labels .....the
nonsense. The fixations.

THE DENIAL OF ICHINEN SANZEN,
Post by dc
The seed is inherent and your job is to "Wake it up" or "realize "
this preexisting
condition. I get it. It's a very popular recipe. Just don't call it
"Nichiren
Buddhism" because it isn't.<<<<<<<<<<<

How absurd. Not only is it Nichiren Buddhism, it is throughout all Mahayana
except the Nembutsu interpretations.which you clearly are trying to turn
Nichiren's teachings into.
Post by dc
In the Lotus Sutra it makes clear that the Lotus Sutra was taught in the
past by ALL Buddhas.
So? Some people in Zobo had the seed from hearing the Dharma from other
Buddha's ( long ago). That is still a dualistic formulation. Your Hongaku
heresy is purely monistic.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Dualistic and monistic? Interesting. Marc your concrete and juvenile
interpretations are nonsense. Better go look up these words you silly
insurance guy,

"Dualism," is exactly what you are doing in separating Buddha and
people/beings into two separate spheres.

Try the Middle Way. That is one thing. Real Nichiren Buddhims does not
believe in a God/Buddha-being outside of ones own true self.



dc
Pat
2003-10-23 12:08:55 UTC
Permalink
No. Nichiren Daishonin taught Buddhahood is inherent, Read the Gosho and
the Lotus Sutra. As Nichiren says you have to have inherent Buddhahood in
order to "awaken" to it!

Pat
Post by dc
This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.
Right.. That is not Nichiren Buddhism, That is Tendai Shu Hongaku Buddhism.
The
seed is inherent and your job is to "Wake it up" or "realize " this
preexisting
condition. I get it. It's a very popular recipe. Just don't call it
"Nichiren
Buddhism" because it isn't.
Post by dc
Yes it might help Marc. You don't even have the TITLE right.<
Read for content.. I did not say that was it's TITLE... I said it was known as
the entrustment of the Dharma section ( actually chap 21 and 22) You can look
it up if you want to
Post by dc
This quote above from the Jinriki--which is the Mystical power of the Buddha
chapter......NOT the "Entrustment Chapter."
See above.. What happens in that chapter is the entrustment of the Dharma from
the Buddha to the Bodhaisattvas. Can you not see the dual relationship in that
action FROM the Buddha TO the Bodhisattvas'?.
Post by dc
he argument you have made is that there is NO former connection, no "Buddha
Seed" in anyone in Mappo. You use this to besmerch the Shoho Jisso Sho.
I "Besmeached" nothing.That Gosho was not likely written by Nichiren. If you
haved managed to authentice it, please publish a paper or something. I am just
pointing out that you must rely on very dubious Gosho in order to rationalize
NST/SGI idea's. And that's a fact.
According to Nichiren, people living in Mappo have had no prior contact wih the
Buddha or at best they have ruined the seed of enlightenment.
Nichiren Buddhist time works in reverse. During the time the Buddha walked the
Earth, enlightenment was easiest. In the next age, Zobo, people still had the
seed and could practice based on wisdom
( meditation, etc). In Mappo, people need to experience an initial contact with
the Buddha/Daharma ( which is why you try to get any random person to chant the
Daimoku at least a couple of times). Practicing via wisdom is no longer
possible so faith replaces wisdom.
Read the Gosho "The Five Stages of Faith and the Four Levels of Practice ."
I will try to copy the relevant sections for you later.
Welcome to Nichiren Buddhism.
Post by dc
And when did this event take place? In the Sutra they received the Sutra
from the "Buddha" long ago--
Er.."long ago" would be my answer then.
Post by dc
xactly as the Shoho Jiso Sho states. AND
without inherent Buddha Nature----
We are not discussing "Buddha-Nature." Nichiren Shoshu misdefines "Buddha
Nature" as being THE Buddha. The Buddha is the Buddha, Your Buddha Nature is
your CAPACITY to become a Buddha.
Post by dc
This is called Kanno-myo, (mystic response) It means
the inner, inherent nature of all beings contains Buddha nature and this is
what awakens when that beings meet a Buddha.
Right.. That is not Nichiren Buddhism, That is Tendai Shu Hongaku Buddhism. The
seed is inherent and your job is to "Wake it up" or "realize " this preexisting
condition. I get it. It's a very popular recipe. Just don't call it "Nichiren
Buddhism" because it isn't.
Post by dc
In the Lotus Sutra it makes clear that the Lotus Sutra was taught in the
past by ALL Buddhas.
So? Some people in Zobo had the seed from hearing the Dharma from other
Buddha's ( long ago). That is still a dualistic formulation. Your Hongaku
heresy is purely monistic.
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 15:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
No. Nichiren Daishonin taught Buddhahood is inherent, Read the Gosho and
the Lotus Sutra.
Okie Dokie! Let's do that

Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Alias
2003-10-23 22:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
No. Nichiren Daishonin taught Buddhahood is inherent, Read the Gosho and
the Lotus Sutra.
Okie Dokie! Let's do that
Patsy says, "Let's not and say we did".
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 21:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Will Pat discuss the Gosho this time? Or will he find something
else to cry about in order to avoid it?
Post by Pat
No. Nichiren Daishonin taught Buddhahood is inherent, Read the Gosho and
the Lotus Sutra.
Okie Dokie! Let's do that

Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Alias
2003-10-23 22:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Will Pat discuss the Gosho this time? Or will he find something
else to cry about in order to avoid it?
Post by Pat
No. Nichiren Daishonin taught Buddhahood is inherent, Read the Gosho and
the Lotus Sutra.
Okie Dokie! Let's do that
Patsy says, "Let's not and say we did that thong two".
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
dc
2003-10-24 07:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Marc wrote:

Read the Gosho "The Five Stages of Faith and the Four Levels of Practice ."
I will try to copy the relevant sections for you later.




Here i saved you the trouble.



We are discussing whether the statements in the Shoho Jisso Sho and about
inherent enlightement of anyone who upholds this sutra:

"Therefore I entreat the people of this country: Do not look down upon my
disciples! If one inquires into their past, they are great bodhisattvas who
have given alms to Buddhas over a period of eighty myriads of millions of
kalpas, and who have carried out religious practices under Buddhas as
numerous as the sand of the Hiranyavati and Ganges rivers. And if one speaks
of the future, they are endowed with the benefit of the fiftieth person,
surpassing that of one who gives alms to all living beings for a period of
eighty years. They are like an infant emperor wrapped in swaddling clothes,
or a great dragon who has just been born. Do not despise them! Do not look
on them with contempt!"



So here Nichiren is saying that his disciples, clearly born in "mappo," are
in fact NOT the lowly beings with no prior connection or Buddha seed as you
adamantly state.



Furthermore, what the hell do you think is the meaning of the "Gem in the
Robe" parable of the Lotus Sutra.



IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG WASN'T IT?



dc
MarcInMD
2003-10-24 14:33:58 UTC
Permalink
The "Five stages" Gosho teaches that you can no longer practice by "Wisdom" in
Mappo and that "Faith" replaces wisdom.
So much for Dave and his pet theories. I will try to copy the passages over the
weekend and post them.

The Sho Ho Jisso Sho is considered dubious in terms of authenticity. NST
followers like the idea's in it better than they like Nichiren so they ignore
the whole issue of it being a fake.

A simple rule of thumb is:

Written by Nichiren = Good

Not written by Nichiren = Bad
dc
2003-10-24 16:28:58 UTC
Permalink
The "Five stages" Gosho teaches that you can no longer practice by "Wisdom"
in
Mappo and that "Faith" replaces wisdom.
So much for Dave and his pet theories. I will try to copy the passages over
the
weekend and post them.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Sorry Marc. But You must be picking through that gosho and omitting what
doesn't boast your theory.





"Therefore I entreat the people of this country: Do not look down upon my
disciples! If one inquires into their past, they are great bodhisattvas who
have given alms to Buddhas over a period of eighty myriads of millions of
kalpas, and who have carried out religious practices under Buddhas as
numerous as the sand of the Hiranyavati and Ganges rivers. And if one speaks
of the future, they are endowed with the benefit of the fiftieth person,
surpassing that of one who gives alms to all living beings for a period of
eighty years. They are like an infant emperor wrapped in swaddling clothes,
or a great dragon who has just been born. Do not despise them! Do not look
on them with contempt!"



So here Nichiren is saying that his disciples, clearly born in "mappo," are
in fact NOT the lowly beings with no prior connection or Buddha seed as you
adamantly state.



Furthermore, what the hell do you think is the meaning of the "Gem in the
Robe" parable of the Lotus Sutra.



IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG WASN'T IT?



dc
dc
2003-10-24 18:21:19 UTC
Permalink
"Therefore I entreat the people of this country: Do not look down upon my
disciples! If one inquires into their past, they are great bodhisattvas who
have given alms to Buddhas over a period of eighty myriads of millions of
kalpas, and who have carried out religious practices under Buddhas as
numerous as the sand of the Hiranyavati and Ganges rivers. And if one speaks
of the future, they are endowed with the benefit of the fiftieth person,
surpassing that of one who gives alms to all living beings for a period of
eighty years. They are like an infant emperor wrapped in swaddling clothes,
or a great dragon who has just been born. Do not despise them! Do not look
on them with contempt!"
dc
2003-10-24 18:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Non-Linear

Simultaneous

"No one but Jogyo, Muhengyo and the other leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth can appear during the first five hundred years of the Latter Day to spread the Law of Myoho-renge-kyo. Only they are qualified to inscribe the object of worship which physically manifests the ceremony of the two Buddhas seated together in the Treasure Tower. This is because both the Law and the object of worship are the reality of ichinen sanzen revealed in the Juryo chapter of the essential teaching."
dc
2003-10-24 18:32:56 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.
MarcInMD
2003-10-24 18:43:14 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.<<

How does this support your theory?

When you uphold the Sutra...by faith... the essential nature of the
Buddha..i.e... His Dharma, is naturally transferred to the believer

Basic Nichiren Buddhism 101... You have no case Dave.
dc
2003-10-24 19:04:12 UTC
Permalink
"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

jinriki chapter.<<

How does this support your theory?

When you uphold the Sutra...by faith... the essential nature of the
Buddha..i.e... His Dharma, is naturally transferred to the believer

Basic Nichiren Buddhism 101... You have no case Dave.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It is obvious that this statement in the Sutra, which is exactly the same
meaning as the Shoho Jisso Sho, means that Nichiren taught there are people
in Mappo who have the seed of Buddhahood from the past and that they may be
Bodhisattvas of the earth and that anyone who has even once chanted the
daimoku MUST be a Bodhisattva of the earth by definition.

dc
dc
2003-10-24 18:33:25 UTC
Permalink
"If Nichiren should be a Bodhisattva of the Earth, then so must his
disciples. The Hosshi chapter states, "If there is someone, whether man or
woman, who secretly teaches to one person even a single phrase of the Lotus
Sutra, let it be known that he is the envoy of the Buddha, sent to carry out
the Buddha's work." Who else but us can this possibly refer to?"
dc
2003-10-24 18:34:58 UTC
Permalink
"If you are of the same mind as Nichiren, you must be a Bodhisattva of the Earth. And since you are a Bodhisattva of the Earth, there is not the slightest doubt that you have been a disciple of the Buddha from the remotest past. The Yujutsu chapter states, "I have taught these people since the remotest past."
dc
2003-10-24 18:53:55 UTC
Permalink
From a fragment in the Daishonin's hands to an unknown recipient:


"Can it be that Shakyamuni Buddha or the Bodhisattvas of the Earth have
entered into your body?"


"I entrust you with the propagation of Buddhism in your province. Because
the seeds of Buddhahood sprout in response to the proper
influence..................."



"The Property of Rice
BACKGROUND:
As only a fragment of this Gosho remains, its recipient and the date of its
writing are not known. It was once thought to represent the concluding
portion of "The True Entity of Life," written on Sado Island in the fifth
month of 1273, but in view of its style and content it is now considered to
be a fragment of a letter written after the Daishonin had retired to Mount
Minobu, possibly to Takahashi Rokuro Hyoe Nyudo, who lived at Kajima in Fuji
District of Suruga Province. Takahashi Nyudo's wife was Nikko Shonin's aunt,
and Takahashi himself, through Nikko Shonin's instruction, became a devout
believer in Nichiren Daishonin's teachings. He and his family appear to have
actively supported the propagation movement in the Fuji area.
The Daishonin evidently wrote this letter in response to an offering of
rice. Rice has the property of sustaining life. However, when rice is
offered to someone who embraces a mistaken teaching, it in effect nourishes
an enemy of the True Law. Yet as the Daishonin indicates, because that
person's life is thereby extended, he may eventually embrace the Lotus
Sutra. This statement shows the Daishonin's compassion for all people and
his unswerving conviction that even a person who slanders the Law can attain
enlightenment.
On the other hand, rice offered to the votary of the Lotus Sutra functions
as an expression of supreme compassion, because it sustains the life of one
who benefits all people by propagating the True Law. In this sense, it may
be likened to the Buddha's relics, which were revered as sacred remains
thought to benefit all beings.
In closing, the Daishonin entrusts the Gosho's recipient with the
responsibility for propagation in his province. This suggests that the
person being addressed had strong faith and was a leading figure among the
lay believers in the area where he was living."
dc
2003-10-24 18:33:42 UTC
Permalink
"Therefore I entreat the people of this country: Do not look down upon my
disciples! If one inquires into their past, they are great bodhisattvas who
have given alms to Buddhas over a period of eighty myriads of millions of
kalpas, and who have carried out religious practices under Buddhas as
numerous as the sand of the Hiranyavati and Ganges rivers. And if one speaks
of the future, they are endowed with the benefit of the fiftieth person,
surpassing that of one who gives alms to all living beings for a period of
eighty years. They are like an infant emperor wrapped in swaddling clothes,
or a great dragon who has just been born. Do not despise them! Do not look
on them with contempt!"
dc
2003-10-24 19:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Marc statements shown to be error:

1. "BTW. The jinriki chapter is known as the "Entrust of the Dharma"
chapter"

(wrong, that is the next chapter in Kumarajiva's translation. :Jinriki"
means "Mystic Power of the buddha.")


2. "In earlier times the seed of enlightenment was already present in
people due to prior contact with the
Buddha/dharma but not so in Mappo. "

(clearly by quotes found throughout Nichiren's gosho, he believed that this
was true in the case of people who had "destroyed their seed of Bdhahood,"
bgut was NOT true for all others in Mappo, especially his disciples and the
bodhissatvas of the Earth. Now there have also been contradictory
statements regarding this from Nichiren Shoshu who has also made the
statements that "in Mappo theri are no seeds of buddhahood." Yet in other
Nichiren Shoshu sermons this is contradicted.

In the 1977 remonstrations with the Gakkai, the point was made by some
Nichiren Shoshu writers, that people practising are only "Followers of the
Bodhisattvas of the Earth." Yet one can easily find numerous statements
from both Nittatsu Shonin and Nikken, which read, that members ARE
"Bodhisattvas of the Earth."

Literalists getting hung up in these kinds of statements are forgetting the
obvious---THIS IS ALL METAPHOR.

3. " Therefore, faith alone is the cause plants the seed within your
life... "

(And therefore if you takes your statements that no one in Mappo has the
seed then therfore that would mean no one has faith and therefore could not
have a seed. Nor could they have a seed that could be destroyed.)

Sorry Marc your concrete thinking leaves NO room for faith

dc
dc
2003-10-24 19:42:47 UTC
Permalink
The obvious reality Marc, is that without a seed, even watering it wont make
it sprout. That would be useless watering. You twist Nichiren's words into
inaccurate absolutes. You also turn his metaphors and Indian and Japanese
myths and stories into concreate thnking.

This kind of confusion permeates everything you write.

At the same time you do not deal with the bigger picture at all.

oh and by the way here is the Gosho you referenced, so you do not need to
bother searching for it:

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/4StagesFaith5StagesPractice.htm

dc

Now try the Gem in the Robe parable from the Lotus Sutra, and apply it to
your absurd contradiction of inherent Buddhahood:

"He made do with what little he could get
and never hoped for anything finer,
unaware that in the lining of his robe
he had a priceless jewel.
Later the close friend who had given him the jewel
happened to meet the poor man
and after sharply rebuking him,
showed him the jewel sewed in the robe.
When the poor man saw the jewel
his heart was filled with great joy,
for he was rich, possessed of wealth and goods
sufficient to satisfy the five desires.
We are like that man.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Watson's Kumarajiva tranlation

Sanskrit version reads:

"This is a case like that of a certain man who enters the house of a friend,
which friend, being rich and wealthy, gives him much food, both hard and
soft.

After satiating him with nourishment, he gives him a jewel of great value.
He ties it with a knot within the upper robe and feels satisfaction at
having given that jewel.

The other man, unaware of it, goes forth and from that place travels to
another town. There he is befallen with misfortune and, as a miserable
beggar, seeks his food in affliction.

He is contented with the pittance he gets by begging without caring for
dainty food; as to that jewel, he has forgotten it; he has not the slightest
remembrance of its having been tied in his upper robe.

Under these circumstances he is seen by his old friend who at home gave him
that jewel. This friend properly reprimands him and shows him the jewel
within his robe.

At this sight the man feels extremely happy. The value of the jewel is such
that he becomes a very rich man, of great power, and in possession of all
that the five senses can enjoy.

In the same manner, O Lord, we were unaware of our former aspiration, (the
aspiration) laid in us by the Tathâgata himself in previous existences from
time immemorial."




See Marc, the Gem was there all the time!
dc
2003-10-24 21:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Bottom line and last word Marc, is that this issue is your constant wail
about Nichiren Shoshu /Sokagakkai---thsi issue you have with inherency of
buddhahood.

Now we all know that some Buddhists took this too far and decided that since
all beings have "Buddha" nature inside them and "Buddhahood as you are,"
was taught by Chih-I, Dengyo and Nichiren, as well as Kobo and Dogen, and
others, they deciided that this meant there ws no need to even practice, so
they adopted that kind of Taoist idea.

There has NEVER been a time when this principle was used this way by actual
Nichiren Shoshu or Sokagakkai doctrines which stres that without practice
one cannot bring out this inherent buddhahood.

NEVER was that attitude a part of actual teahings of NSA. Some individuals
may have taken that idea too far but never was it part of the doctrine.

Therefore your years of repeating this charge is just rubbish and has no
basis. Valid criticisms of either the current NST or Gakkai issues do not
relate to this single obsession you have.

So forget it. That kind of "we don't even need to practice," idea, was not
even found in actual Shingon or Zen doctrine. It was simply a faddish idea
that was influenced by Taoist attitudes.

One last problem with yours and others incessant claims about "medieval
tendai," is also a misnomer, in that the term "Medieval," which is a western
term, BY DEFINITION, refers to STANDARD historical chronology as below:

700 BCE-476 CE - Ancient or Classical era: (end of Greek Dark Ages to end of
Roman Empire)
313 BCE-27 BCE - Hellenistic era (death of Alexander the Great to ascension
of
Augustus Caesar)
476-1000 - Early Middle Ages
476-1300 - Medieval era
500-1000 - Dark Ages
500-1500 - Dark Ages
500-1500 - Middle Ages
1000-1500 - Late Middle Ages
1300-1600 - Early Modern Period
1300-1600 - Renaissance era
1517-1600 - Reformation era
1700-1800 - Enlightenment era
1575-1950 - Modern era
1750-1950 - Modern era
1950-2100 - Postmodern era

Notice the term "medieval" which is a STANDARD term, refers to the period
500 AD to 1300 AD. All your precious phoney scholars using the buzz phrase
"Medieval Tendai" ---you don't even have that one right ---the Heian period
from 794-1192, was in fact during the Medieval period but, you don't even
have that one right... you have always said it came from the Muromachi
Period 1333 - 1573 which would in fact be called the "Early Modern Period."



NOwhere does Nichiren deny Sokushin Jobutsu, or Shoji Soku Nehan or the
other constants which come from Chih-I, which he surely would have done so,
had he been concerned about people thinking "inherency" was a bad thing and
automatically equal to "no need to practice."

You like to quote the egoist Murano:
Here is a quote by Murano:

"Soku has another meaning. It means "to be equal to." This meaning creates
many
terrible equations. Bonno Soku Bodai (Illusion are Enlightenment),
shoji-soku-nehan (The world of birth and death is the world of Nirvana),
shaba-soku-jakko (The Saha World is the Pure Land of Tranquil Light) and so
on.
Chuko Tendai created these irrational, supernatural equations endlessly."
(p.
19 Questions and Answers on Nichiren Buddhism.)

Even Michael McCormick has disagreed with these kinds of Murano remarks,
showing that they go back to the very beginnings of Mahayana with Nagarjuna.


Chih-I, Dengyo and Nichiren are ALL from the Medieval Period. Chih-I's most
important teaching of Ichinen Sanzen IS all about inherency, There is no
difference of distinction in this regard between the words "Inherent,"
"Potential," "Innate," or "inborn" and many gosho quotes refer again and
again to a person possessing inherent Buddhahood.

In terms of simple logic, a seed cannot grow if it is not there and even a
grain of faith means there is a seed. By definition all beings are
inherently the Buddha, just as all people can grow up to reveal their
potentials in life---if they but practice. A seed can lay dormant, but
nonetheless it is eternally related to the tree it came from.

Shimaji Daito and his ilk were all anal, literalistic, illogical fools.
and suckers like you, fell for it. And you take Jackie Stone and mangle
her, ignoring her other remarks and then just say she is an "apologist."

As we know perfectly well, NO ONE can acuse Nichiren Shoshu/Sokagakkai of
being "intellectual." If they aren't faith based, then what is?

There is absolutely nothing correct about anything you say and you should
realize this. You arguments are dead and completely smashed.


dc
Rob
2003-10-24 21:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by dc
Bottom line and last word Marc, is that this issue is your constant wail
about Nichiren Shoshu /Sokagakkai---thsi issue you have with inherency of
buddhahood.
Now we all know that some Buddhists took this too far and decided that since
all beings have "Buddha" nature inside them and "Buddhahood as you are,"
was taught by Chih-I, Dengyo and Nichiren, as well as Kobo and Dogen, and
others, they deciided that this meant there ws no need to even practice, so
they adopted that kind of Taoist idea.
There has NEVER been a time when this principle was used this way by actual
Nichiren Shoshu or Sokagakkai doctrines which stres that without practice
one cannot bring out this inherent buddhahood.
NEVER was that attitude a part of actual teahings of NSA. Some individuals
may have taken that idea too far but never was it part of the doctrine.
The individual who took this concept too far was Daisaku Ikeda himself when
he states such things like:

"Even when you are busy or tired, or maligned by others, you rise above
it all,...You are Buddhas."
"The Soka Gakkai is a gathering of the noblest Buddhas."
--SGI President Ikeda in part 2 of his July 16 speech

Neither Josei Toda or Makiguchi said anything of the sort. This is the
official doctrine supported by Nichiren Shoshu, and used to be supported by
the Soka Gakkai until Ikeda distorted it.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Doctrines and Practice of Nichiren Shoshu"
Chapter 24 - The Three Inherent Potentials

An important doctrine in Nichiren Shoshu is the principle of the Three
Inherent Potentials of the Buddha Nature. They are the Innate Buddha Nature
(shoin bussho) [bussho=Buddha Nature], the wisdom to perceive it (ryoin
bussho), and good actions, or practice, to develop this wisdom (en'in
bussho).

In the pre-Lotus Sutra teachings, it is taught that humans can attain
Buddhahood when they cut off their delusions and earthly desires, and become
saintly due to the practice of Buddhism. However, it is impossible for
common mortals, who have many delusions and earthly desires, to attain
Buddhahood through this method.

The Lotus Sutra states that all common mortals naturally have the Three
Inherent potentials of the Buddha Nature in their lives. If we believe in
the Lotus Sutra, we can attain Buddhahood in our present form, even if we
have delusions and earthly desires.

Concerning the Three Inherent Potentials, Sixty-sixth High Priest Nittatsu
Shonin stated:

"The principle of the True Entity of all Phenomena (Shoho jisso)
reveals that everyone has the Buddha Nature Š If the Buddha Nature inside us
is developed, this is the life state of Buddhahood. However, possessing the
Buddha Nature does not mean that we automatically attain Buddhahood."
(Nittatsu Shonin Zenshu, vol. 1-1, p.166)

If we focus only on the existence of the Buddha Nature inherent in the lives
of common mortals, we may think that anyone can be a Buddha, and that
Buddhist practice is not necessary. On the other hand, if common mortals
didn't possess the Buddha Nature, it would be impossible for them to attain
Buddhahood no matter how sincerely they practiced. Therefore, we must
realize that every common mortal has the Innate Buddha Nature, but the
benefit of it will be manifested only when we develop it.

Sixty-sixth High Priest Nittatsu Shonin explained en'in bussho (good
actions, or practice, to develop the wisdom to perceive one's Buddha Nature)
as follows:

"If you practice with utmost sincerity, your Buddha Nature will open up
much wider and you can attain enlightenment. Š This is en'in bussho, that
is, to open up the Buddha Nature through action based on your wisdom
(religious practice)."
(Nittatsu Shonin Zenshu, 1-1, p.167)

En'in bussho, good actions or practice, gives rise to good causes and merit,
which help us attain Buddhahood. As a result of these good causes, the
wisdom to perceive the Innate Buddha Nature (ryoin bussho) arises. About
this wisdom (ryoin bussho), Sixty-sixth High Priest Nittatsu Shonin stated:

"The greater your wisdom becomes, the more your Buddha Nature will be
revealed. This means that you can become a Buddha. This is the wisdom to
perceive the Buddha nature."
(Nittatsu Shonin Zenshu, vol. 1-1, pp.166-167)

This wisdom breaks through our delusions and illusions so we can perceive
the Innate Buddha Nature which we inherently posses. This will cause the
benefits of the Innate Buddha nature to appear in our lives.

Sixty-seventh High Priest Nikken Shonin stated the following about the Three
Inherent Potentials:

"Imagine that a lump of gold is buried in the ground. This lump of gold
signifies the Innate Buddha Nature. Everyone originally possesses this
Buddha Nature but we cannot see it. Every single thing has this Buddha
Nature, but it is invisible. The action of digging into the ground to find
the lump of gold signifies good actions, or practice. At last the gold is
revealed and it shines brilliantly. This function of revealing signifies the
wisdom to perceive the Buddha Nature."
(Nikken Shonin Zenshu, vol.3, p.386)

In order to obtain the gold buried in the ground, we must dig it out.
Everyone has the capacity to dig. This important thing is to put this
ability into action. This is a metaphor for developing the Three Inherent
Potentials of the Buddha Nature.

***Developing the Three Inherent Potentials***

Sixty-fifth High Priest Nichijun Shonin stated:

"All living beings are the entity of Myoho containing the Mutual
Possession of the Ten Worlds and Three Thousand Realms. Š However, common
mortals don't know this because they are deluded."
(Nichijun Shonin Zenshu, p.553)

Nichiren Daishonin stated in the Gosho, Ken Hobo Sho:

"It is difficult for common mortals to attain Buddhahood because their
minds are based on delusions, regardless of whether they are in positive of
negative states."
(Gosho, p.283)

We common mortals are filled with delusions. Even if we sit in religious
contemplation (meditation), it is impossible for us to manifest the Buddha's
wisdom. This is because our minds are centered on our own common mortal
wisdom. This is why Nichiren Shoshu teaches that in order to simultaneously
develop both the wisdom to perceive the Buddha Nature and the practice to
develop this wisdom we must believe in the Gohonzon, which possesses all of
the wisdom of the Buddha, and we must practice Nichiren Daishonin's
teachings.

Nichiren Daishonin and Twenty-sixth High Priest Nichikan Shonin taught that
the development of the Three Inherent Potentials equals the manifestation of
the Three Enlightened Properties of the Buddha which are the Properties of
the Law, Wisdom, and Compassionate Action.

If we develop the Innate Buddha Nature, we must manifest the virtue of the
Property of the Law, the eternal ultimate truth, and we can enjoy a stable
life condition in which we are undaunted by any difficulties. If we develop
good actions, or practice, we can be endowed with the virtue of the Property
of Compassionate Action, the compassionate behavior of the Buddha, so we can
manifest lives and behavior filled with great mercy, unselfishly leading all
people to True Buddhism. If we develop the Property of Wisdom, we can be
invested with the virtue of the Buddha's wisdom, so that we can discern the
natural law as it functions in all matters, and live our lives free of
error.

***The Sowing of the Seed by the Buddha is Necessary***

Nichiren Daishonin teaches in the Gosho, "The Teaching Judged and Approved
by all Buddhas of the Three Existences," (Sokanman sho), as follows:

"Even though all living beings have the Three Inherent Potentials in
their lives, without encountering good external causes, (zenchishiki) they
cannot attain enlightenment, nor will they even know of the existence of
these potentials, let alone, manifest benefit. But, when they have good
external causes, they definitely can manifest the Three Inherent Potentials
of the Buddha Nature."
(Gosho, p.1426)

We, common mortals, cannot attain enlightenment with our own wisdom alone.
We need to encounter good influences, or external causes (zenchishiki) in
order to develop our Buddha Nature. The Daishonin also teaches more
concretely in the Gosho, "Admonitions Against Slander":

"The Lotus Sutra is like the seed, the Buddha is like the planter and
the people are like the field. If you violate these principles, then in your
next lifetime, not even I, Nichiren, will be able to save you."
(Gosho, p.1040; cf. MW, vol.1, p.166)

In the Latter Day of the Law, the only relation (en) of good influence which
enables us to attain enlightenment is the seed of Buddhahood sown by the
Buddha of the True Cause, Nichiren Daishonin. The Daishonin states in the
Gosho, "Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra," as follows"

"In any case, the people of today already reject the Lotus Sutra.
Because of this error they will most certainly fall into hell. Therefore on
should by all means persist in preaching the Lotus Sutra. Cause then to hear
it. Š The seeds of Buddhahood exist nowhere else than in the Lotus Sutra."
(Gosho, p.1316)

As Nichiren Daishonin states above, today in the Latter Day of the Law,
there is no fundamental seed for all living beings to attain Buddhahood
other than Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of Actual Ichinen Sanzen, (the actual
three-thousand realms in a single life-moment) of the Essential Teaching
(Honmon) hidden in the depths of the Lotus Sutra.

Attaining Buddhahood, which is the goal of our practice is, specifically, to
develop the Three Inherent Potentials of the Buddha Nature. Through
practicing exactly as Nichiren Daishonin taught we can receive the great
benefit of attaining Buddhahood in our present form. Therefore in this
sprit, let us confidently exert ourselves in the practice of this great
Mystic Law.
___________________________________________________________________________

Rob
MarcInMD
2003-10-25 00:30:00 UTC
Permalink
"Buddhahood as you are,"
was taught by Chih-I, Dengyo and Nichiren, <
Well now.. That's the issue, isn't it?

If you read Nichiren's core doctrinal treatises, he does not teach the
inherency of Buddhahood in them. In order to transform Nichiren into someone
who taught this crap, you must do a couple of things. You must rely on a
unique set of supposed Gosho not a single on of which has ever been
authenticated. Not only that, there isn't a single Gosho that has been
authenticated that proposes it. In addition, the unimpeachable Goshos teach a
World View that contradicts what is found in the dubious Goshos. Both cant be
right.

You either stand with Nichiren and his core Gosho or you allow yourself to
rationalize a set of teachings that really were not his thinking at all and
lacks corroboration in his genuine and central writings.
dc
2003-10-25 01:06:14 UTC
Permalink
"Buddhahood as you are,"
was taught by Chih-I, Dengyo and Nichiren, <
Well now.. That's the issue, isn't it?<<<<<<<
If you read Nichiren's core doctrinal treatises, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
give it up, turn in your Buddha badge, because you are just clearly not
paying any attention.

You have zero idea what the "core" experience of Buddhism is. fundamental to
the entire thing is that anyone---if they try, can attain Buddhaood on their
own. Even if they were living on an island, all alone and never heard of
Nichiren or any of this. It is all inside and nothing is missing. Get out
of your goldfish bowl. You just make Nichiren look like a idiot savant.

dc
dc
2003-10-25 02:54:13 UTC
Permalink
"Therefore I entreat the people of this country: Do not look down upon my
disciples! If one inquires into their past, they are great bodhisattvas who
have given alms to Buddhas over a period of eighty myriads of millions of
kalpas, and who have carried out religious practices under Buddhas as
numerous as the sand of the Hiranyavati and Ganges rivers. And if one speaks
of the future, they are endowed with the benefit of the fiftieth person,
surpassing that of one who gives alms to all living beings for a period of
eighty years. They are like an infant emperor wrapped in swaddling clothes,
or a great dragon who has just been born. Do not despise them! Do not look
on them with contempt!"


On the Four Stages of Faith and the Five Stages of Practice---1277


So here Nichiren is saying that his disciples, clearly born in "mappo," are
in fact NOT the lowly beings with no prior connection or Buddha seed as you
adamantly state.

I have to say again.....I know I have said this a few times before over the
years...but Marc...you really remind me of the Developmentally Disabled
patient who had been brainwashed into Mormonism. He just repeated the exact
same things over and over, and was unable to process any information..
everything was concrete, black and white, literal........(he was also a
penal code pedophile.)

I feel for you. Honest I do. I can see your pain and the reason you took on
this monomanic imprint. But the good news is you can erase that ugly old
imprint. You too can learn the truth of ones OWN eternal "buddhahood."

Then you can even learn to toss away the word Buddha and all these other
stupid labels.

Poor Nichiren, how he tried to communicate in a country of loons.......some
of it rubbed off on him.......how could he help from that happening?

Nichiren was a very ardent person.......a brilliant fanatic. He had some
issues related to failures of common sense, but he was living in a country
that at the time was strictly whacked out---how could anyone avoid taking on
SOME of the nonsense being spread around....in fact a "Buddha," is not
omnipotent and all-knowing. HE CAN EVEN be a strident, ardent fanatic in a
nutty country.

Real "Buddha"---and I use the term as a convention only------does not
happen to an individuals person that is still provisional..............the
kind of "buddha" that is omnipotent, only makes it's appearance when ALL
people are equally enlightened at once and the land also is completely
peaceful...........and all suffering is finished.........and I can assure
you labels, sects and dogma at that point, has nothing to do with it.

Just as Nichiren himself said, "I heard that the Lotus Sutra was much
longer......"

Yes-----the "real" Lotus Sutra is MUCH longer! (metaphor)

Now look people use your head. The reason Japan was so whacked, was not
just because they were practicing Nembutsu. Shingon and Zen!

This conclusion/theory is completely unscientific. In fact it works the
other way around...people were so whacked out, they believed stupid forms
of Buddhism. Just like today. People are whacked. They were EVEN MORE
whacked out thousands of years ago....in the "former day of the day."

And guess what, if one would want to calculate the beginning of the real
"Latter day of the Law"---would one want to really be accurate and
literal-------it began at the time of the writing of Mahayana and the Lotus
Sutra. The authors were actually suggesting THEY were the Bodhisattvas of
the earth.......the creative writers........Nagarjuna, Ashvaghosa,
Vasumitra, Pársva (maybe), Caraka, Pantanjali or his successors, and the
others I am not yet prepared to name yet.

It had NOTHING to do with the Mahasamghika vs. Sarvastivadin problem. That
was all Bad history, with completely screwed up dating and chronologies.
The Sarvastivadins presided over the 4th Council sponsored by
Kanishka....but even closer to Kanishka in his own court, the world class
philosophers with a broader more enlightened awareness, were writing
Mahayana Sutras.


These people were world class geniuses of their day, not sectarian worms
that had reduced buddhism down to Buddhism being the Vinaya more then any
thing else-----..It was all just ritual alms gathering and gong-the-bell
stuff. They had turned Buddhism into a pack of superstitions and lineages.

The "Stupid" comes first........problem was , that no matter how Nichiren
tried, few listened to him about the practice, because they knew deep
own ---LIKE EVERYONE DOES----that no dogma, or magic words or glimpse of
the Void, was going to solve the real world problems. Them being dumb,
came first. Its not the chicken and the egg thing. Dumb and Dummier.
They were simply, easily Brainwashed and subservient, and Nichiren hadn't
gotten to them first, it took years before the Japanese were ready to
discuss "transcending all differences," and even now we have found they
still can't get over themselves, even when they had a good thing with a
growing worldwide peace movement---they had to muck it up and wreck
it---over stupid ego nonsense and thinking they had to hold the power at the
top of a pyramid of Zombie protocol. They just do not get it.......they do
not own Buddhism or the universe. The Emperor is NOT god---they are not
special chosen beings. Get over it.


WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ARDENT MEETS ARDENT? ....its always a deadlock.


Take a while think about it.

Now is anyone going to get serious about Buddhism for the future in America
and the rest of the non-Japanese Empire countries?

Otherwise I am disconnecting from this wretched arbn junkie depository.


dc
MarcInMD
2003-10-24 18:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Sorry Marc. But You must be picking through that gosho and omitting what
doesn't boast your theory.

<<

In the first place, none of this is "my theory". It's basic Nichiren Budhdhism
101.

Secondly, It's not a very long Gosho. It says faith replaces wisdom.. Sorry if
that upsets your apple cart... I'll look for my copy over the weekend.
dc
2003-10-24 19:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Secondly, It's not a very long Gosho. It says faith replaces wisdom.. Sorry
if
that upsets your apple cart... I'll look for my copy over the
weekend.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"Faith replaces wisdom, " is not the topic at hand. Nichiren taught many
times the idea that one need not be a wise scholar and that faith is
necessary to attain Buddhahood. In fact that idea is fundamental to both
Nichiren Shohsu and Sokagakkai.

And there is also Nichiren teaching that "faith transforms into wisdom,"
which clearly means that faith is not faith for it's own sake.

The topic is YOUR statements that no one in Mappo has the seed of Budhahood
and that the Shoho Jisso Sho is therefore a fake and this only comes from a
later version of Tendai. All of that is utter baloney and Marc-spin.

You are avoiding the issues and creating disputes over your own attempts to
recreate buddhism into your image.

dc
LTCMARCINMD
2003-10-25 16:55:41 UTC
Permalink
"Faith replaces wisdom, " is not the topic at hand. Nichiren taught many
times the idea that one need not be a wise scholar and that faith is
necessary to attain Buddhahood. In fact that idea is fundamental to both
Nichiren Shohsu and Sokagakkai.<<

Not really... In your Gnostic/Hongaku approach, there is nothing but the
mundane World as it is. When you use the word "Faith" you mean something
different from Nichiren's use of the word.. What you are really saying is that
you have "Confidence" that your practice "works" i.e., it brings about good
luck, helps your inner realizations...whatever. You also have confidence that
you have joined the group with the special magical empowerment/lineage/gizmo.

Faith in the more Orthodox sense is TRANSCENDENT faith. i.e., faith in the
Eternal Life of the Buddha as reveled in chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra, rather
than a process of chanting Daimoku as a mechanical exercise used to "activate"
your inherent Buddhahood,. In real Nichiren Buddhism, you take faith in the
saving power of the Buddha and the Hokekyo and look toward the indwelling of
the life of the Buddha within your own.

Nichiren Buddhism in it's original form is a real religion. I understand you
dont like that sort of thing and how personally challenging that is for you
Dave, but the issue is what can be correctly labeled "Nichiren Buddhism"
Post by dc
The topic is YOUR statements that no one in Mappo has the seed of Budhahood
and that the Shoho Jisso Sho is therefore a fake and this only comes from a
later version of Tendai
i. All of that is utter baloney and Marc-spin.
I understand that you have no choice but to think that, otherwise you are
defeated.

The fact remains that the Sho ho Jisso Sho belongs to a unique set of supposed
Gosho with very dubious authenticity. That's not because I personally dont like
what it says. Get back to me when someone can authenticate it or even when a
single Hongaku oriented Gosho is authenticated. So far, not a single one has
been ( not just the Sho ho jisso Sho), which any honest person must admit is
pretty suspicious.

A really good rule of thumb is only to take into consideration Gosho that
were actually written by Nichiren and dismiss Gosho that were not. How is that
unreasonible?

The question of authenticity is a real problem that Dave must ignore or try to
side step or else his argument fails
Post by dc
ou are avoiding the issues and creating disputes over your own attempts to
recreate buddhism into your image.
BS.. The issue is what is authentic Nichiren Buddhism. My arguments are based
solely on the unimpeachable core Gosho of Nichiren Daishonin... Yours are not.

Have a nice day
Kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 07:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by dc
"Faith replaces wisdom, " is not the topic at hand. Nichiren taught many
times the idea that one need not be a wise scholar and that faith is
necessary to attain Buddhahood. In fact that idea is fundamental to both
Nichiren Shohsu and Sokagakkai.<<
Not really... In your Gnostic/Hongaku approach, there is nothing but the
mundane World as it is. When you use the word "Faith" you mean something
different from Nichiren's use of the word.. What you are really saying is that
you have "Confidence" that your practice "works" i.e., it brings about good
luck, helps your inner realizations...whatever. You also have confidence that
you have joined the group with the special magical empowerment/lineage/gizmo.
Faith in the more Orthodox sense is TRANSCENDENT faith. i.e., faith in the
Eternal Life of the Buddha as reveled in chapter 16 of the Lotus Sutra, rather
than a process of chanting Daimoku as a mechanical exercise used to "activate"
your inherent Buddhahood,. In real Nichiren Buddhism, you take faith in the
saving power of the Buddha and the Hokekyo and look toward the indwelling of
the life of the Buddha within your own.
Nichiren Buddhism in it's original form is a real religion. I understand you
dont like that sort of thing and how personally challenging that is for you
Dave, but the issue is what can be correctly labeled "Nichiren Buddhism"
Post by dc
The topic is YOUR statements that no one in Mappo has the seed of Budhahood
and that the Shoho Jisso Sho is therefore a fake and this only comes from a
later version of Tendai
i. All of that is utter baloney and Marc-spin.
I understand that you have no choice but to think that, otherwise you are
defeated.
The fact remains that the Sho ho Jisso Sho belongs to a unique set of supposed
Gosho with very dubious authenticity. That's not because I personally dont like
what it says. Get back to me when someone can authenticate it or even when a
single Hongaku oriented Gosho is authenticated. So far, not a single one has
been ( not just the Sho ho jisso Sho), which any honest person must admit is
pretty suspicious.
A really good rule of thumb is only to take into consideration Gosho that
were actually written by Nichiren and dismiss Gosho that were not. How is that
unreasonible?
The question of authenticity is a real problem that Dave must ignore or try to
side step or else his argument fails
Post by dc
ou are avoiding the issues and creating disputes over your own attempts to
recreate buddhism into your image.
BS.. The issue is what is authentic Nichiren Buddhism. My arguments are based
solely on the unimpeachable core Gosho of Nichiren Daishonin... Yours are not.
Have a nice day
"Modern Scholarship"

The ruin of Buddhism in the Latter day.

Bickering theorists bereft of experience. They think Buddhism is words, sects arguing over theories in words. Had they any real experiential proof of Buddhism, they would all be of one mind.

The mental distinctions and disunity of sects, fall off the Middle Way and even prevent sitting on the seat of the Original Gate at the Platform of the Path. At that time real Awakening (Buddhahood) occurs with even one Daimoku.

The "Modern Scholars" are even worse then heretics from the past and unity-breakers.

Daisaku Ikeda preferred politics and Count Coudenhove Kalergi to Josei Toda. "Modern Scholars," give their allegiance to fake educators, bereft of actual experience.

That is Mappo as predicted and foreseen.

They hide their seeds in rubble and wonder where they went? They invent circular arguments that go nowhere. Then look in all the wrong places and can never be of one mind, even within themselves, much less with others. To make matters worse, their Seed of Buddhahood is annihilated just like throwbacks. Breaking unity is a sin.

A top Leader or Priest that would assert themselves above the Sanghas of all nations, to make their sect from Japan the controller of a World Religion all countries must adhere to, based in one country are nothing but throwback Globalists with control issues. They think Sun Lotus was a Globalist. They cheapen the meaning of the Third Great Secret Law and the Three Treasures.

In the future this will be different, as long as they continue to recite the dedication to the Wonderful Law, eventually it will be in their local language and Depictions on the Gohonzons will differ according to the country and time and the way the Gohonzon is presented changes, into the available media of the time, without altering the inherent, strict protocol. All of this can already be seen.
kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 20:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Both, High Priest Nikken and Daisaku Ikeda were guilty of breaking unity and creating the schism. Followers of each of these unity breakers, backed one or the other, using shallow reasoning. The Destruction of the Sho Hondo was an evil plot, and the renunciation of the DaiGohonzon by Sokagakkai, have both been devilish acts. We also read how Nikken too, was was promoting the shallow idea that the Daigohonzon was a forgery. In both cases, regular believers, were forced to chose loyalty to these two leaders. This dismantled the age old protocol of Buddhism as taught by both the greatest High Priests and Josei Toda and the spirit of Itai Doshin. Whether one speaks of the "Eternal Master," as Daisaku Ikeda, or the placing of the High Priest as a person, as a Supreme Master of the Law, in both cases makes the same grevious error and overreachng and twisting of the protocol as inherited by Nikko Shonin. This error can also be seen in the other Nichiren Sects when unity breakers refused to maintain Itai Doshin and unity of Priesthood and Lay believers and respecting the different, objective functions of Priesthood and Laity.

In all these cases, various arguments were put forth to either deny Nikko Shonin as the inheritor of Nichiren's teachings, deny the Daigohnzon, or to deny and rationalize unity breaking.

Now that High Priest Nikken has passed away and Daisaku Ikeda is no longer active, it is essential for both parties in the horrendous schism, get off their heretical thrones of arrogance and renounce these tragic errors of leaders and Priest who were overreaching.

Tomorrow Nov 12, is the annversary of the passing away of Mr. George M. Williams of the NSA. All Gakkai, especiallly those in the USA, should do severe Repentance for allowing Ikeda and staff leaders in SGi-USA to demonize him. He was the greatest Lay Leader in the world, since Josei Toda who realized how propagation should unfold in the future.
The current High Priest, Nichinyo should openly renounce the actions of Nikken Shonin and unity should be restored. Itai Doshin and Reunification is the true spirit of tge teachings of Sun Lotus.

More changes will need to occur, but this spot is the spot from which one who falls down, once again, picks oneself up.
kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 20:29:38 UTC
Permalink
SGI USA NEEDS TO DISCARD THEIR SLANDEROUS VERSION OF "Human Revolution" that turned GMW into a whipping boy. This was a cowardly act to write GMW out of history. Those involved with this are terrible slanderers.


kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 20:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Anyone attending Gakkai meetings heard these evil accusations against GMW.

Public Zange and resignations over these slanders is required.


kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 20:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Daisaku-Nikken-Stein


JazzIs TvRicky
2019-11-12 02:09:55 UTC
Permalink
I disagree with your hero worship of George M Williams. I do believed that NSA was a more pure form of Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism than what SGI calls Buddhism or Sokaism as a made up religion.

It was because of those in positions of leadership under George Williams that Buddhism was taught correctly to those who had a seeking mind and the faith to discern the truth in or from others.

George Williams did not need Bodyguards and other ego driven perks he so desperately employed as a good to his lesser ego.

NSA did not police its leaders to the point of controlling their faith until about 1988..

And the destruction of the Sho Hondo has nothing to do with faith. That was political on both sides.

You yourself admitted you could have stood up and made a difference.

So let’s keep it real and try to move forward by realistically realizing SGI is beyond reform and has become the worst enemy of Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism there is.
Kelpzoidzl
2019-11-12 03:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JazzIs TvRicky
I disagree with your hero worship of George M Williams. I do believed that NSA was a more pure form of Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism than what SGI calls Buddhism or Sokaism as a made up religion.
It was because of those in positions of leadership under George Williams that Buddhism was taught correctly to those who had a seeking mind and the faith to discern the truth in or from others.
George Williams did not need Bodyguards and other ego driven perks he so desperately employed as a good to his lesser ego.
NSA did not police its leaders to the point of controlling their faith until about 1988..
And the destruction of the Sho Hondo has nothing to do with faith. That was political on both sides.
You yourself admitted you could have stood up and made a difference.
So let’s keep it real and try to move forward by realistically realizing SGI is beyond reform and has become the worst enemy of Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism there is.
As long as general members of SGI USA chant Daimoku they will be protected from the corruption. There is a huge disconnect between current SGI USA and sincere practice of members. There is no other way, but the the principle of Itai Doshin and Reunification.

and the weak sniveling of too many members in name only who slandered GMW like barking dogs.

George M Williams WAS a hero. He was tireless workhorse dedicated to spreading Buddhism in America. He was a pure hearted person, with no pretense. He knew America need not kowtow to Japan. He knew the USA had a great Buddhist mission.

There is no mistake that Jiyu no Bosatsu appeared because of his strong faith and prayer. It was pure strong Ichinen that called up Bodhisattvas, much like Josei Toda in Japan.

As time went on, Ikeda, afraid he would take a back seat to American Kosen Rufu began his slander. Even then, under attack by fools and a corrupted Ikeda he never stopped praying for all the believers.

Nichiren Shoshu, despite the correct thread of Nichiren Buddhism, became lost under Nikken.

The disturbances in the minds of Ikeda and Nikken was a manifestation of Sancho Shima. They both became possessed.

There is no way there will be any real Nichiren Buddhism in the world the wrongs are righted.
JazzIs TvRicky
2019-11-12 04:11:24 UTC
Permalink
I have no particular relation with Mr Williams other than being a member and leader doing his position as the head of NSA.

The thing he did not do is stand up to Ikeda and fight against his deviation from faith. That is not a Great Leaders traits my friend.
Kelpzoidzl
2019-11-12 05:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by JazzIs TvRicky
I have no particular relation with Mr Williams other than being a member and leader doing his position as the head of NSA.
The thing he did not do is stand up to Ikeda and fight against his deviation from faith. That is not a Great Leaders traits my friend.
He was surrounded by Hyenas who attacked from all sides. He took a group on Tozan to Taisekiji and had not even been told the schism had occurred until members were ready to enter the Sho Hondo, then received a message from Tokyo telling them not go in.

He told them he was there with hundreds of members and he told Tokyo "No, we are going in to receive Gokaihi."
Kelpzoidzl
2019-11-12 05:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelpzoidzl
Post by JazzIs TvRicky
I have no particular relation with Mr Williams other than being a member and leader doing his position as the head of NSA.
The thing he did not do is stand up to Ikeda and fight against his deviation from faith. That is not a Great Leaders traits my friend.
He was surrounded by Hyenas who attacked from all sides. He took a group on Tozan to Taisekiji and had not even been told the schism had occurred until members were ready to enter the Sho Hondo, then received a message from Tokyo telling them not go in.
He told them he was there with hundreds of members and he told Tokyo "No, we are going in to receive Gokaihi."
Ikeda was very sneaky. Mr. Williams was trusting. They even waited till his health was failing to unleash the accusations and rewrite Hunan Revolution volumes.

They were poisoness snakes.Ikeda had began undermining GMW EVEN IN THE 70's
Chas.
2019-11-12 09:13:47 UTC
Permalink
David Cole, White Knight of the Fascist Alt Right Klan +
SGI-USA committing sedition in the USA.
www.sgi-usa.com Proof.
Poor members being duped.
So, those not being willingly complicit with Donald Trump's inhuman immigrant family separation policy are traitors, huh?

You should go on Morning Joe and try and sell that bilge to the to the refugees from the conservative Republican Party there:

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/episodes

Or go watch Republican Nicolle Wallace and her friends Steve Schmidt, George Will and others, all refugees from the Reagan-Bush Republican Party, who while wrong-headed in my classically Liberal view, at least had a heart:

http://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/episodes

In either case, you will at least get a memory of what the Republican Party, the GOP, used to stand for before it became Putin's Repugnican Party, the PRP

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-7, kelpzoidzl (David Cole) wrote:

@Chas. Your mental conflicts disallows you from seeing reality. You yourself are luckily out if step with the SGI-USA, but by being traitorous to Mr. Williams, your make the same error of the keaders of SGI USA of rejecting Nichiren in favor of a leader who thought he was greater then Nichiren and betrayed all the sincere members, especially slandering of GMW.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 1:38:59 PM UTC-7, kelpzoidzl (David Cole) wrote:

The "separation of children," issue was a lie to begin with. The law was signed by Clinton and stopped by Trump. It was globalist propaganda spread by evil media.

Look at all the detention photos from Clnton and Obama administrations.

The USA is a product of the ichinen of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. Globalists wish to destroy that. DON'T BE STUPID!

Ikeda, only published small quotes from his Kalergi book in the USA. Kalergi was insane and Ikeda being enamored by him, was replacing Josei Toda for that wicked man.

Nichiren was a patriot, yet knew Japan was wicked. The founding fathers of the USA answered to Nichiren's prayers. GMW knew this. I know this. America was a miracle. The appearance of the founding fathers was a miracle. Lincoln was a miracle, JFK and Bobby Kennedy were miracle and all three were murdered. GMW was a miracle, "assassinated" by Ikeda and SGIUSA leaders. Trump also is an unexpected miracle. Like when Kng Asoka appeared in the former day. Trump haters are trying to destroy the miracle of the USA.

Ikeda had the agenda of Kalergi, to destroy America and the western countries. He completely rejected Nichiren and thought he was greater. Very shallow demonic.

Wake up.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 1:58:18 PM UTC-7, kelpzoidzl (David Cole) wrote:

In the process of trying to destroy the West with the globalist agenda, they have turned Buddhist propagation back a hundred years. Now it it even "politically correct" to fill western countries with radical Islam and Marxism and "politically incorrect" to actually spread Buddhism or real Christianity. Ikeda became evil and a traitor to Buddhism.

Nikken slandered the members of the Gakkai which was evil, but at the root of it he knew Ikeda's agenda was far from Buddhism.

The ONLY solution for the remnants of Nivhiren Buddhism in the USA, to discard Ikeda, revere GMW's and Nittatsu's Ichinen and reunite.

So let it be written, so let it be done.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 2:01:13 PM UTC-7, kelpzoidzl (David Cole) wrote:

Promoting the Invasion of the USA is sedition.
___________________________________________________________
Promoting the Invasion of the USA is sedition.
Calling refugee families fleeing the criminal gangs in central America "the Invasion of the USA" and those fleeing the ISIS wars in the middle east "the invasion of Europe" is both ridiculously tiny-minded and inhumane. The fraction of MS13 members in the ICE-held population is near zero, as was the fraction of ISIS terrorists in the European refugees during the war, although not not now that ISIS is largely defeated.

Taking the actions to separate babies from their families and incarcerate little children in cages, likely never to be reunited with their parents, is what makes you a Repugnican (Making America Grate Again), no longer a Republican.

Also, no longer a Buddhist. Not even issendai Buddhist sects would accept your ignorant rhetoric, note the list of signatures on the SGI website:

http://www.sgi-usa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Separating-Immigrant-Children_Buddhist-Statement.pdf

You are truly alone, David Cole.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 8:02:52 PM UTC-7, kelpzoidzl (David Cole) wrote:

The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan – The genocide of the Peoples of Europe
423,019 Views 139 by News Team
Mass immigration is a phenomenon the causes of which are cleverly concealed by the political elites, and the multicultural propaganda is employed to falsely portray it as inevitable. In this article we intend to prove once and for all, that mass immigration is not a spontaneous phenomenon. What the elites try to present as an inevitability of modern life, is actually the product of a plan conceived around a table and prepared over decades, to completely change the face of our continent.

The Pan-Europe

Few people know that one of the main instigators of the process of European integration, was a man who also conceived the genocide of the peoples of Europe. He was a sinister individual whose existence is unknown to the masses of our people, but the political elites consider him as the founder of the European Union. His name is Richard von Coudenhove Kalergi. His father was an Austrian diplomat named Heinrich von Coudenhove-Kalergi (with connections to the Byzantine family of the Kallergis), and his mother the Japanese Mitsu Aoyama.

Thanks to his close contacts with European aristocrats and politicians, and due to the network of relationships created his nobleman-diplomat father, Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi was able to work unseen, away from the glare of publicity, and he managed to engage the co-operation of the most influential heads of state for his plan, making them supporters and collaborators for his “project of European integration”.

In 1922 he founded the “Pan-European” movement in Vienna, which aimed to create a New World Order, based on a federation of nations led by the United States. European integration would be just the first step in creating a world government. His earliest supporters included Czech politicians Tomáš Masaryk and Edvard Beneš, and the German Jewish banker Max Warburg, who invested the first 60,000 marks. The Austrian Chancellor Ignaz Seipel and the next president of Austria, Karl Renner, took early responsibility for leading the “Pan-European” movement and later, French politicians, such as Léon Bloum, Aristide Briand, Alcide De Gasperi etc., offered their help.

With the rise of Fascism in Europe during the 1930s, the project of European integration was abandoned and the “Pan-European” movement was forced to dissolve. However, after the Second World War, and thanks to frantic and tireless activity and the support of Winston Churchill, the Jewish Masonic Lodge B’nai B’rith and major newspapers like the New York Times, Kalergi managed to gain acceptance for his plan by the United States Government and later the CIA became involved in driving the plan towards completion.

The essence of the Kalergi plan

In his book «Praktischer Idealismus», Kalergi explains that the citizens of the future “United States of Europe” will not be the people of the Old Continent, but a new mixed breed, the products of thorough and widespread miscegenation. He states that the peoples of Europe should interbreed with Asians and other non-White races, to create a multiracial population, with not clear sense of tradition or identity and therefore easily controlled by the ruling elite.

Kalergi proclaims the need to abolish the right of nations to self-determination and outlines the break-up of nation states through the use of ethnic separatist movements and the destruction of the nations themselves through mass migration. In order for Europe to be easily controlled by the future elite, Kalergi proposes the creation of a homogeneous mixed breed population, and as to who should be the new elite? Kalergi is particularly illuminating on this point:

The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-negroid race of the future, similar in appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the current diversity of peoples and the diversity of individuals. Instead of destroying European Judaism, Europe, against her will, refined and educated this people, driving them to their future status as a leading nation through this artificial evolutionary process. It’s not surprising that the people that escaped from the Ghetto-Prison, became the spiritual nobility of Europe. Thus, the compassionate care given by Europe created a new breed of aristocrats. This happened when the European feudal aristocracy crashed because of the emancipation of the Jews [due to the actions taken by the French Revolution]

Although no textbook mentions Kalergi, his ideas are the guiding principles of the European Union. The belief that the peoples of Europe should be mixed with Africans and Asians, to destroy our identity, to break down traditional ways of living and create a single mixed race, is the reason for community policies that promote minority interests. The underlying motives are not really humanitarian, but because the power behind the ruthless regime dominating the EU plans the greatest genocide in history.

A prestigious prize is awarded every two years by the Coudenhove-Kalergi Foundation to Europeans who have excelled in promoting this criminal plan. Among those awarded with such a prize are Angela Merkel and Herman Van Rompuy.

The facilitation of genocide, is also the basis of the constant appeals from the United Nations, demanding that we accept millions of immigrants to help counter the low birth rate among Europeans. According to a report published in January 2000 by the population division of the United Nations in New York, under the title “Immigration replacement: A solution to declining and aging population,” Europe will need to accept 159,000,000 migrants by 2025.

the citing of such precise numbers is evidence of a premeditated plan. Clearly a low birth-rate can easily be reversed with appropriate measures to support families and it is equally clear that the introduction of alien genes will do nothing to preserve our genetic heritage but destroy it. The consequence of current policies promoting multiracialism is to create a weakened disparate population without national, historical or cultural cohesion. In short, the policies of the Kalergi plan have been and still are, the basis of official government policies intent upon the genocide of the Peoples of Europe, through mass immigration.

G. Brock Chisholm, a former director of the World Health Organization (OMS), demonstrated this well when he said: “What people everywhere need to do is to limit births and promote mixed marriages (between the different races), the outcome will be the creation of a single race throughout the world which can be directed by a central authority. “

Conclusions

If we look around us, the implementation of the Kalergi Plan seems to be at an advanced stage. We face Europe’s fusion with the Third World. The plague of interracial marriage produces each year thousands of young people of mixed race: ‘The children of Kalergi’. Under the dual pressures of misinformation and humanitarian stupefaction, promoted by the mass media, we Europeans are being taught to renounce our origins, and to renounce our national identity.

The servants of globalization are trying to convince us that to deny our identity, is a progressive and humanitarian act, that “racism” is wrong, because they want us all to be blind consumers. It is necessary, now more than ever, to counter the lies of the System, to awaken the revolutionary spirit among Europeans. Every one must be made aware of this truth, that European integration amounts to genocide. We have no other option, the alternative is national suicide.

Translator’s note: Although the reasons due to which Kalergi made the choices he made are of no particular interest to us, we will try to answer a question that will surely our readers have already asked: Why a European aristocrat with Flemish, Polish, Greek-Byzantine roots and even with some samurai blood in his veins (from his mother) was such body plans and organ in the hands of dark forces? The reasons, in our opinion, are multiple, idiosyncratic, psychological and … women.

We therefore observe a personality with strong snobbish attitudes, arrogance, and, allow me the term, “degenerate elitism.” Also, the fact that his mother was Asian, perhaps created internal conflicts and frustrations, something that can happen to people with such temperament. But the most decisive factor must have been the “proper teenager”, which incidentally of course, was beside him, and became his first woman (at age 13): The Jewess Ida Roland, who would later become a famous actress.

EUROPEAN COUNCIL

The award of the Coudenhove-Kalergi Prize to President Van Rompuy

On November 16th 2012, the President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, was awarded the Coudenhove-Kalergi Prize, during a special conference in Vienna, to celebrate 90 years of pan-European movement. The prize is awarded every two years to leading personalities for their outstanding contribution to the process of European integration.

A decisive factor that helped him win the prize was the balanced way in which President Van Rompuy executed his duties in the new position of President of the European Council, which was established by the Treaty of Lisbon. He handled this particularly sensitive leading and coordinating role with a spirit of determination and reconciliation, while emphasis was also given to his skilful arbitration on European affairs and unfailing commitment to European moral values.

During his speech, Mr Van Rompuy described the unification of Europe as a peace project. This idea, which was also the objective of the work of Coudenhove-Kalergi, after 90 years is still important. The award bears the name of Count Richard Nicolaus von Coudenhove-Kalergi (1894-1972), philosopher, diplomat, publisher and founder of the Pan-European Movement (1923). Coudenhove-Kalergi was the pioneer of European integration and popularized the idea of a federal Europe with his work.

Among the winners of the award, the Federal Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel (2010) and the President of Latvia Vaira Vike-Freiberga (2006), are included.

This article is a translation of an Italian article, originally posted on Identità.

# # # #
___________________________________________________________

David Cole, white knight of the fascist alt right movement. Key and lock, a perfect fit. You have corrupted yourself beyond belief. Remember when you were a district leader and would welcome what you think of now as "mongrel races" as guests to your meetings? How far you have fallen, nayutas of miles away from your glory days.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

You talk about miscegenation, that Eugenics phrase that is so stupid it belies comprehension.

We are all out of Africa, and not that long ago: dozens of millennia, that's all.

The only serious genetic difference regarding the European migrants 50,000 years ago from the rest of the human race is that they interbred with Neanderthals. Skull cults: ugga nugga!

Talk about miscegenation: the Nazi elite Europeans are at the low end of racial purity, the black Africans at the high end of those surviving the extinction event called the Toba Catastrophe that caused migrations out of Africa 60,000 years ago of surviving populations.

What is called miscegenation is actually not such a bad thing, since racial science is utter crap, and the "wild type" in Biology is the healthy mix of genetic variation. Take a class, dude.

Your ignorance is simply unbearable.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________
delusions about nutty Japanese history used to present nutty ideas to uphold imaginary arguments that Nichiren would kick your ass over, two "normal" errors of facts annoy me.
1. Dengyo did NOT bring the Lotus Sutra to Japan. It was Prince Shotoku in the 6th century.
Dengyo brought the correct and unadulterated version of Kumarajiva's Lotus Sutra to Japan for the first time. Bad translations abound and adulterations and plagiarizing on top of those by the slanderous sects are further abundant.

Dengyo also retrieved an unadulterated version of the True Word sutras, which he used to bash the True Word priests in debate in front of the Emperor: they had edited sections of the Lotus Sutra into their copies to try to make the True Word sutras the supreme teaching.
2. The Armenian holocaust was far more then 800,000. More like 3 million.
Try and read more closely. Toynbee finished his report halfway through the genocide and that alerted the world to a genocide in progress for the first time in history: thanks to the British Government. There was no world outcry, beyond the British and some of the American press.

And by the way, your 3 million number is an outlier:

"The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց ցեղասպանություն, Hayots tseghaspanutyun), also known as the Armenian Holocaust, was the Ottoman government's systematic extermination of 1.5 million Armenians [Note 2]"
- Wikipedia

[Note 2: Jones, Adam (2010). Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction. Taylor & Francis. pp. 171–72. ISBN 978-0-203-84696-4. A resolution was placed before the IAGS membership to recognize the Greek and Assyrian/Chaldean components of the Ottoman genocide against Christians, alongside the Armenian strand of the genocide (which the IAGS has already formally acknowledged). The result, passed emphatically in December 2007 despite not inconsiderable opposition, was a resolution which I co-drafted, reading as follows: ...]
No one, not Mark or anyone chanting Daimoku as primary practice are believers in Shinto. Nichiren including Shinto dieties on the Gohonzon, was not Shinto, but he was a Patriot. Nichiren himself discussed the use of Statues, with a copy of the Lotus Sutra or Gohonzon. Using a statue(s) as Nichiren said was perfectly fine, as long as the Gohonzon/Lotus Sutra was the center, whether necessary or not.
Wrong. Shinto is a syncretic religion, and Sanno Ichijitsu Shinto once encompassed all of Japanese Buddhism under one umbrella, with the manGod Ieyasu Tokugawa as God Almighty: and Nichiren Shu Minobu was the head temple of all the Nichiren sects including the Fuji School, which is how they received their very own mon-tsuki shinmon (crane symbol) with the same standardized shape as all the other shinmon for all the other temples in Japan.

That pernicious form of Shinto slander reformed all of Japanese temple Buddhism and set up for the very same ideology under the Emperor as the manGod during the Pacific War. The religious-political ideology the Tokugawa reigned from for two and one half centuries was simply modified to place the emperor back on top. The Asian Holocaust and devastation around the Pacific Rim was the result.

And by the way, the shoten zenjin (Buddhist Gods) are not "Shinto gods": that corrupted view is symptomatic of your disease.

And Nichiren Daishonin never said that statues should be placed in front of the Gohonzon on the altar, or inside the butsudan as Nichiren Shu does. You speak without "sutra in hand" and you are not to be accepted as speaking the truth, simply your own views.

From "The Opening of the Eyes", WND I, p. 263:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-237

. . I must observe sadly that, although it would be simple
. . enough to point out the error of the views propounded by
. . these men, if I did so, the people of today would not even
. . look in my direction. They would go on in their erroneous
. . ways and, in the end, would slander me to the ruler of the
. . country and put my life in jeopardy. NEVERTHELESS, OUR
. . MERCIFUL FATHER SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHEN HE FACED HIS END IN
. . THE GROVE OF SAL TREES, STATED AS HIS DYING INSTRUCTIONS
. . THAT WE ARE TO “RELY ON THE LAW AND NOT UPON PERSONS.” “NOT
. . RELYING UPON PERSONS” MEANS THAT WHEN PERSONS OF THE FIRST,
. . SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH RANKS PREACH, EVEN THOUGH THEY
. . ARE BODHISATTVAS SUCH AS UNIVERSAL WORTHY AND MANJUSHRĪ WHO
. . HAVE ATTAINED THE STAGE OF NEAR-PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT, IF
. . THEY DO NOT PREACH WITH THE SUTRA IN HAND, THEN THEY ARE
. . NOT TO BE ACCEPTED.
Even being unclear about Nichiren's True Identity and mistaken understanding Minobu or other people have, reciting the Daimoku is far more powerful. The same is true about N Shoshu or SOKAGAKKAI. Even heretical beliefs are erased by Daimoku. That is why the slander on ARBN is crazy.
We don't need another Yamazaki, David Cole, particularly one that hounded Mr. Williams to his death in a failed effort to acquire his denunciation of Sensei on the record. He denied you that, and remained loyal. And we don't need another fascist alt right white knight of the Klan, either.

-Chas.
__________________________________________________________

Chas.
2019-11-12 09:12:58 UTC
Permalink
A Tragic Distortion Of The Three Treasures (Skt Triratna, Jpn Sambō) +
Soka Gakkai Reassesses its Role
By Hiroshi Hojo
Soka Gakkai 4th President
Speech presented at "Tozan of Apology"
Nichiren Shoshu Head Temple Taisekiji, November 7, 1978
Printed in SGI World Tribune, February 5, 1979
Now at the outset of our journey toward the 21st century, I would like
to refer to the new keynote the Soka Gakkai will base itself on from
now. To begin with, let me look back to the previous relationship
between Nichiren Shoshu and the Soka Gakkai.
In 1952, the Soka Gakkai legally be came a religious corporation, thus
making a new start. On that occasion, the head temple of Nichiren
Shoshu instructed the Soka Gakkai to abide by the following three
agreements.
1) The Soka Gakkai must let those people it has converted to Nichiren
Shoshu belong to one of its local temples.
2) The Soka Gakkai must follow the teachings of Nichiren Shoshu.
3) The Soka Gakkai must protect the Three Treasures of the Buddha, Law
and Priest.
In accordance with these three principles, the Soka Gakkai has been
devoted to protecting Nichiren Shoshu since then, thus setting out
toward kosen-rufu.
[snip the rest]

What this is, is a tragic distortion of the Three Treasures (Skt triratna, Jpn sambō) by Chinese Buddhist Priests, long before Buddhism ever came to Japan.

"They are the Buddha, the Law (the Buddha’s teachings), and the Buddhist Order (Skt samgha/sangha, Jpn sōgya, community of believers)." - Soka Gakkai Dictionary.

The Sangha or harmonious community of believers was translated in Chinese to Seng-Chia, where the word Seng came to mean a single monk. After that it was abbreviated (conveniently for funeral Buddhism) to Seng, such that now Sangha meant priest and the triratna became Buddha, Law, and Priest, or in the funeral Buddhist sense, Priest or High Priest.

This distortion has down the millennia translated to a whopping pile of cash for disgusting and perverted Buddhist priests, such as those in Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu, who parasitically suck the believers money and livelihood out of the hands of their families, and take it to the red light districts to pander to their Geishas.

Geika (High Priest) to Geisha transmission. Like Nikken in Seattle.

-Chas.
kelpzoidzl
2019-11-11 20:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Remember George M. Williams a True American and True Leader for Kosen Rufu.


StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-21 13:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.

But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Pat
2003-10-23 12:13:53 UTC
Permalink
The Gosho are written for ALL people, to a specific person. You can not
dispel Nichiren's words here! Nichiren is referring to ALL people!
Nichiren noted enough times to share his letters with other followers of
deep faith. I see instead of accepting Nichiren states what he states you
besmirch his teachings with IGNORANCE/DELUSION.

Pat
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.
But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Alias
2003-10-23 12:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
The Gosho are written for ALL people, to a specific person. You can not
dispel Nichiren's words here! Nichiren is referring to ALL people!
Nichiren noted enough times to share his letters with other followers of
deep faith. I see instead of accepting Nichiren states what he states you
besmirch his teachings with IGNORANCE/DELUSION.
Pat
Now you think you can speak for Nichiren Daishonin? How long have you had
this arrogant delusion?

Cody
Post by Pat
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You
offered
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the
three
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the
place
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3
Faith
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your
son.
Post by Pat
You
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This
is
Post by Pat
the
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who
possesses the three
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not
follow?
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.
But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true
doctrines.
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people
do
Post by Pat
not,'
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine
this
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two
match each
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is
much to fear here!"
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 15:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
The Gosho are written for ALL people, to a specific person. You can not
dispel Nichiren's words here! Nichiren is referring to ALL people!
Your opinion! I will only address Gosho not an angry Ikeda cult
knee jerk reaction. Try again, Pat
Post by Pat
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.

But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-22 03:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.

But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Pat
2003-10-23 12:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Read the entire Gosho and the entire Chapter of the Lotus Sutra.

Pat
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You offered
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the place
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3 Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son. You
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This is the
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the three
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not follow?
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.
But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
Alias
2003-10-23 12:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Read the entire Gosho and the entire Chapter of the Lotus Sutra.
Pat
Who do you think you are, our teacher who gives us homework?

Can you EVER respond to content?

Cody
Post by Pat
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
You may think you offered
gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho Buddha, but that is not so. You
offered
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
them to yourself. You, yourself, are a true Buddha who possesses the
three
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction. Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant daimoku is the
place
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
of the Treasure Tower. The sutra reads: "Wherever one teaches the Lotus
Sutra, this Treasure Tower of mine will rise and appear before him."3
Faith
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially for you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your
son.
Post by Pat
You
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith. This
is
Post by Pat
the
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
reason for my advent in this world.", ()WND, p.299)
I provided the Gosho on the Treasure Tower that indicates we are all
Buddha's.>Nichiren states, "You, yourself, are a true Buddha who
possesses the three
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
enlightened properties. You should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this
conviction.">Hmm is this an accepted Gosho or is this one you do not
follow?
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
Patrick
The Daishonin was speaking to an individual, not all of the people who
claim to follow him. This person had "extremely rare faith." The Ikeda
cult followers faith is shallow and twisted. They claim to have attained
what they have not, and proudly boast that they are Buddhas. They
make it sound like the Law is easy to understand and easy to enter.
But if they really were Buddhas, they would be perverting Buddhist
prayers by using them as a black Magick curse on people that they hate.
They wouldn't have added an angry, vindictive millionaire politcos name
to Gongyo. And they sure wouldn't be writing and reading stinkweed
poetry.
Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true
doctrines.
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people
do
Post by Pat
not,'
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine
this
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two
match each
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is
much to fear here!"
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -
And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 15:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Read the entire Gosho and the entire Chapter of the Lotus Sutra.
Pat
Let's start with these

Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-23 21:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Well, I've done my damnedest to discuss the Gosho with Pat
but he is apparently all talk and no walk. Tsk tsk. Perhaps it's
time to plonk the fool and let him talk to his hand for awhile
Post by Pat
Read the entire Gosho and the entire Chapter of the Lotus Sutra.
Pat
Let's start with these

Here's a Gosho that addresses the Ikeda cult perfectly, and he ain't
declaring them Buddhas, that's for sure:

"They will base themselves
on heretical views and fail to distinguish between false and true doctrines.
Moreover, they will address themselves to men and women believers, monks
and nuns, declaring, 'I can understand the doctrines, but other people do not,'
in this way working to spread the Zen teachings. But you should understand
that these people will destroy the True Law of the Buddha. If we examine this
passage and observe the state of the world today, we see that the two match each
other as perfectly as do the two pieces of a tally. Be careful! There is much to fear here!"
Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man
- Shogu Mondo Sho -

And let's not forget the Lotus Sutra passage that the Daishonin based
his observation upon, that equally describes the Ikeda cult to a tee:

"These men with evil in their hearts,
constantly thinking of worldly affairs,
will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks
and take delight in proclaiming our faults,
saying things like this:
"These monks are greedy
for profit and support
and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines
and fabricate their own scriptures
to delude the people of the world.
Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby
they make distinctions when preaching this sutra."
Because in the midst of the great assembly
they constantly try to defame us,
they will address the rulers, high ministers,
Brahmans and householders,
as well as other monks,
slandering and speaking evil of us,
saying, "These are men of perverted views
who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!"
But because we revere the Buddha
we will bear all these evils.
Though they treat us with contempt, saying,
"You are all no doubt Buddhas!"
All such words of arrogance and contempt
we will endure and accept.
In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age
there will be many things to fear.
Evil demons will take possession of others
and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us."
StraightCraig39&1/2
2003-10-20 16:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult. That is your
choice. you have to make the SGI look poorly, in order to make yourself
feel better.
The Ikeda cult doesn't need any help looking like a cult. They do
a fine job all by themselves

http://www.sg-eye.com
"What happen to those daimoku and refuting we had done in the past decade
for Nikken Sect to demise? 12 million members chanting that kind of daimoku
could easily wipe out the entire Mt. Fuji not to speak of Nikken Sect.
Must admit, had done my part in that kind of chanting in the past. Infact, I
chanted for Nikken demise not the sect. Now I wonder, if I am laying the right
cause. Oh well! what's done cannot be undone"
Shermaine, follower of Ikeda

"This devilish function is itself the one evil, the
fundamental evil. In the modern age, the slanderous actions of
Nichiren Shoshu are a case in point.
"The Daishonin declares that if this one evil is simply ignored, the
calamities of internal strife and foreign invasion are bound to occur.
In other words, this one evil will ultimately drag the country down
the path of war, which causes the greatest suffering to the people.
For this reason, the Daishonin strictly admonishes that this one evil
must be eliminated."
Daisaku Ikeda, May 22 2002

"President Ikeda called the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood `devils.' He
didn't mince words. He knew and was responsible for what he said,
and who would take his words for what they were worth."
Dan Defensor, SGI member

"the destruction of the NST as we know it is on a deeper level.
It has nothing to do with the misfortune of the members. This movement is
not to destroy a Nichiren Shoshu priesthood or the members of it. It is
simply to destroy King Devil living through the NST."
Makoto Otsuka, SGI member

"In the final analysis, the essential nature and function of High Priest
Nikken is none other than what Buddhism terms the devil king of the sixth
heaven, the function that obstructs the flow of kosen-rufu.
It is vitally important for each SGI member to develop the ability to discern
the influence that currently comes from the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood. The
spirit to protect people from this influence should be the basis of all our
efforts to promote every aspect of kosen-rufu.
In other words, this is the time that we should indeed ponder the true
meaning of, and put into action, the passage
"Rather than offering up ten thousand prayers for remedy, it would be better
simply to ***outlaw this one evil***" (WND, 15).
Ikeda cult Justice Chronicle # 164

"Yes, some members have mentioned using the campaign to close temples. I
PERSONALLY support that idea." Kathy Ruby

"A lot of the "Temple Issue" has resulted in foolhardy and embarrassing
displays of bombast and rhetoric, or incited crazy or demented people (in
Japan mostly) to take actions ranging from harrassing people seeking to attend a
funeral to setting fires. From altering photos to talking about "crushing Nikken".
Chris Holte

"the daimoku campaign to close the temples in the US is NOT a freedom of
religion issue"
"I'll chant for the temples to close and for the sad people like your self to find
wisdom to cure your blindness."
Joe Stevens SGI member

"Recognizing the High Priest is the Devil of the Sixth heaven. means that the
world of heaven is being used to lull us into complacency and acceptance.
The reason the Devil resides in the sixth heaven is the world of heaven
fools us in to thinking we are safe and happy, when we are clinging to our
attachments and feeling good about it. The devil of the sixth heaven
appears whenever we, as individuals are about to overcome our kharma or
break through in our own lives. "
Pat Matthews

"Nikken is like a cancer. A cancer will destroy the body if it's not
destroyed first so SGI must destroy Nikken."
Buster Williams, SGI leader Arts div meeting Dec 12, 2000

"When one chants with whole-hearted intent to defeat Nikken,
one is actually purging one's life of its darkest demons. This is why
people have felt liberated and experienced unbelievable joy welling
up from the depths of their lives."
Ikeda cuilt chief priest Narita
Pat
2003-10-20 20:06:10 UTC
Permalink
I guess you can not tell when you are being ignored with your name-calling
and finger pointing.

Patrick
Post by StraightCraig39&1/2
Post by Pat
I know it makes you feel better to call the SGI a cult. That is your
choice. you have to make the SGI look poorly, in order to make yourself
feel better.
The Ikeda cult doesn't need any help looking like a cult. They do
a fine job all by themselves
http://www.sg-eye.com
"What happen to those daimoku and refuting we had done in the past decade
for Nikken Sect to demise? 12 million members chanting that kind of daimoku
could easily wipe out the entire Mt. Fuji not to speak of Nikken Sect.
Must admit, had done my part in that kind of chanting in the past. Infact, I
chanted for Nikken demise not the sect. Now I wonder, if I am laying the right
cause. Oh well! what's done cannot be undone"
Shermaine, follower of Ikeda
"This devilish function is itself the one evil, the
fundamental evil. In the modern age, the slanderous actions of
Nichiren Shoshu are a case in point.
"The Daishonin declares that if this one evil is simply ignored, the
calamities of internal strife and foreign invasion are bound to occur.
In other words, this one evil will ultimately drag the country down
the path of war, which causes the greatest suffering to the people.
For this reason, the Daishonin strictly admonishes that this one evil
must be eliminated."
Daisaku Ikeda, May 22 2002
"President Ikeda called the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood `devils.' He
didn't mince words. He knew and was responsible for what he said,
and who would take his words for what they were worth."
Dan Defensor, SGI member
"the destruction of the NST as we know it is on a deeper level.
It has nothing to do with the misfortune of the members. This movement is
not to destroy a Nichiren Shoshu priesthood or the members of it. It is
simply to destroy King Devil living through the NST."
Makoto Otsuka, SGI member
"In the final analysis, the essential nature and function of High Priest
Nikken is none other than what Buddhism terms the devil king of the sixth
heaven, the function that obstructs the flow of kosen-rufu.
It is vitally important for each SGI member to develop the ability to discern
the influence that currently comes from the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood. The
spirit to protect people from this influence should be the basis of all our
efforts to promote every aspect of kosen-rufu.
In other words, this is the time that we should indeed ponder the true
meaning of, and put into action, the passage
"Rather than offering up ten thousand prayers for remedy, it would be better
simply to ***outlaw this one evil***" (WND, 15).
Ikeda cult Justice Chronicle # 164
"Yes, some members have mentioned using the campaign to close temples. I
PERSONALLY support that idea." Kathy Ruby
"A lot of the "Temple Issue" has resulted in foolhardy and embarrassing
displays of bombast and rhetoric, or incited crazy or demented people (in
Japan mostly) to take actions ranging from harrassing people seeking to attend a
funeral to setting fires. From altering photos to talking about "crushing Nikken".
Chris Holte
"the daimoku campaign to close the temples in the US is NOT a freedom of
religion issue"
"I'll chant for the temples to close and for the sad people like your self to find
wisdom to cure your blindness."
Joe Stevens SGI member
"Recognizing the High Priest is the Devil of the Sixth heaven. means that the
world of heaven is being used to lull us into complacency and acceptance.
The reason the Devil resides in the sixth heaven is the world of heaven
fools us in to thinking we are safe and happy, when we are clinging to our
attachments and feeling good about it. The devil of the sixth heaven
appears whenever we, as individuals are about to overcome our kharma or
break through in our own lives. "
Pat Matthews
"Nikken is like a cancer. A cancer will destroy the body if it's not
destroyed first so SGI must destroy Nikken."
Buster Williams, SGI leader Arts div meeting Dec 12, 2000
"When one chants with whole-hearted intent to defeat Nikken,
one is actually purging one's life of its darkest demons. This is why
people have felt liberated and experienced unbelievable joy welling
up from the depths of their lives."
Ikeda cuilt chief priest Narita
dc
2003-10-22 06:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by MarcInMD
Post by MarcInMD
Can you not see the dual relationship in
that action FROM the Buddha TO the Bodhisattvas'?<<<<<<<<<<
Post by MarcInMD
That is still a dualistic formulation. Your Hongaku
heresy is purely monistic.
Oh boy. nevermind.

Do yourself a favor and get fully into Russian Orthodox...."got any cutter
for an old alter boy?"

dc
dc
2003-10-22 06:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Yes it might help Marc. You don't even have the TITLE right.<

Read for content.. I did not say that was it's TITLE... I said it was known
as
the entrustment of the Dharma section ( actually chap 21 and 22) You can
look
it up if you want to<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Marc if you read anything for content I would be shocked. I have posted
about the two chapters many times and how they relate to specific and genral
transmission, It is not called the "Entrustment Chapter" no matter how you
spin it. It details the Bodhisattvas of the Earth and the provisional
Bodhisattvas, Pledging to spread the Law and the Buddha producing the Long
Broad Tongue.

You said that is called THE "Entrustment Chapter".

NO, Marc it is called the Mystic power of the Buddha Chapter.
Post by dc
This quote above from the Jinriki--which is the Mystical power of the
Buddha
Post by dc
chapter......NOT the "Entrustment Chapter."
See above.. What happens in that chapter is the entrustment of the Dharma
from
the Buddha to the Bodhaisattvas. Can you not see the dual relationship in
that
action FROM the Buddha TO the Bodhisattvas'?<<<<<<<<<<

Regardless it is not THE "Entrustment Chapter." which is the following
chapter.
Post by dc
he argument you have made is that there is NO former connection, no "Buddha
Seed" in anyone in Mappo. You use this to besmerch the Shoho Jisso Sho.
I "Besmeached" nothing.That Gosho<<<<<<<<<<<<<

No? You are simply besmerching one of the greatest writing of Nichiren
Daishonin, with your silly ideas about non-inherent Buddhahood again. You
use that as your way to destroy gosho that do not fit into your agenda.
Post by dc
was not likely written by Nichiren.<<<<<<<<<<
Bullcrap. According to some people who get stuck in words.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
Post by Alias
If you
haved managed to authentice it, please publish a paper or something. I am
just
pointing out that you must rely on very dubious Gosho in order to
rationalize
NST/SGI idea's. And that's a fact.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\

Al Nichiren Sects considered it authentic until a couple fake Japanese
goldfish bowl scholars decided to attack Ichinen sanzen.

Your attacks on inherency of buddha nature is nothing but a denial of
Ichinen Sanzen and an attack on the most basic point of Buddhism, that
distinguishes it from the erroneous explanations of Hinduism and
Christianity---that god and common mortal are not one....That the buddha is
not a person.....that the human is a subordinate to GOD/Buddha.

You do this by mischaracterizing, a "buddha" as a special being apart from
people. It is a word game that is based in inability to comprehend the
Middle Way---which is an even more basic, underlying principle of
buddhism--even more basic then Ichinen Sanzen.

It is an age-old argument---one which Ichinen Sanzen put to an end.
Post by dc
Post by MarcInMD
According to Nichiren, people living in Mappo have had no prior
contact wih the
Buddha or at best they have ruined the seed of
enlightenment.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Baloney. That would OMIT the bodhisattvas of the Earth as well. You do not
understand Metaphor.

As I just posted the Lotus Sutra itself, saying:

"One who can uphold this sutra has in effect already seen me....."

THUS this refers to non-linear causation and a non-linear understanding of
the so called "Buddha seed."

IT Means it is simultaneous.



There are more gosho statements that speak of Buddha nature within then
there are, when he uses the expression that "people in Mappo do not have
the seed of Buddhahood." When he makes those kind of statements he speaking
generally, in terms of ignorant people---but what he means by this is that
many people do not REALIZE their true identity is that of a Buddha so they
do not seek enlightement. They do not realize the inherent nature of
Buddhahood within them. He is referring to a theory that was said to be
taught by Dengyo, that people in the Latter Day have forgotten their
inherent Buddha Nature. This is so basic, only a person without any
awareness of their own "Buddha" nature would make the kinds of statements
you make.
Post by dc
Nichiren Buddhist time works in reverse. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
What part of "simultaneous" do you not understand.


dc (continued next post)
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