Discussion:
Hiromasa Ikeda, heir to the throne
(too old to reply)
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-22 08:46:18 UTC
Permalink
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/48025

From: "gaydave53" <***@...>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:36 pm
Subject: Son of Ikeda gaydave53

Hello:

I am really getting scared...I just opened the June 10 World Tribune,
which features no less than FOUR photos of Hiromasa Ikeda at various
functions...plus the usual second and third page slot...usually
reserved for his Pop...features a one and a half page address by
Sensei, Junior...

Are we about to be force fed a steady diet of "Sensei Junior"???

What special qualifications does Junior have?

Is the as well read as his father?

Has he achieved any special victories in shakubuku or strengthened the
faith of millions?

Where was junior hiding all these years?

It looks like Junior has been declared the heir to the throne...

I can't believe the American organization is going to buy into the
glorification of Sensei Junior...but it looks that way...

David

---

Derek Juhl
Alias
2005-06-22 10:04:04 UTC
Permalink
You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka, The
Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not realizing the
greatness of David Cole!

Alias
<***@netscape.net> wrote
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/48025
>
> From: "gaydave53" <***@...>
> Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:36 pm
> Subject: Son of Ikeda gaydave53
>
> Hello:
>
> I am really getting scared...I just opened the June 10 World Tribune,
> which features no less than FOUR photos of Hiromasa Ikeda at various
> functions...plus the usual second and third page slot...usually
> reserved for his Pop...features a one and a half page address by
> Sensei, Junior...
>
> Are we about to be force fed a steady diet of "Sensei Junior"???
>
> What special qualifications does Junior have?
>
> Is the as well read as his father?
>
> Has he achieved any special victories in shakubuku or strengthened the
> faith of millions?
>
> Where was junior hiding all these years?
>
> It looks like Junior has been declared the heir to the throne...
>
> I can't believe the American organization is going to buy into the
> glorification of Sensei Junior...but it looks that way...
>
> David
>
> ---
>
> Derek Juhl
>
Yelps
2005-06-22 10:26:01 UTC
Permalink
"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka, The
> Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not realizing the
> greatness of David Cole!
>
> Alias




Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke a
bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish connection
and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score him a dozen Kilos
or so. With the money you could buy a new set of teeth Aren't those last
dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?


dc


> <***@netscape.net> wrote
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/48025
>>
>> From: "gaydave53" <***@...>
>> Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:36 pm
>> Subject: Son of Ikeda gaydave53
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I am really getting scared...I just opened the June 10 World Tribune,
>> which features no less than FOUR photos of Hiromasa Ikeda at various
>> functions...plus the usual second and third page slot...usually
>> reserved for his Pop...features a one and a half page address by
>> Sensei, Junior...
>>
>> Are we about to be force fed a steady diet of "Sensei Junior"???
>>
>> What special qualifications does Junior have?
>>
>> Is the as well read as his father?
>>
>> Has he achieved any special victories in shakubuku or strengthened the
>> faith of millions?
>>
>> Where was junior hiding all these years?
>>
>> It looks like Junior has been declared the heir to the throne...
>>
>> I can't believe the American organization is going to buy into the
>> glorification of Sensei Junior...but it looks that way...
>>
>> David
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Derek Juhl
>>
>
>
Yelps
2005-06-22 10:34:43 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:vuydnWkDItckoSTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
>> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka,
>> The Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not
>> realizing the greatness of David Cole!
>>
>> Alias
>
>
>
>
> Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke a
> bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish connection
> and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score him a dozen
> Kilos or so. With the money you could buy a new set of teeth Aren't those
> last dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?
>
>
> dc
>

Suckling on the Nikken Nip.


dc








>
>> <***@netscape.net> wrote
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/48025
>>>
>>> From: "gaydave53" <***@...>
>>> Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:36 pm
>>> Subject: Son of Ikeda gaydave53
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> I am really getting scared...I just opened the June 10 World Tribune,
>>> which features no less than FOUR photos of Hiromasa Ikeda at various
>>> functions...plus the usual second and third page slot...usually
>>> reserved for his Pop...features a one and a half page address by
>>> Sensei, Junior...
>>>
>>> Are we about to be force fed a steady diet of "Sensei Junior"???
>>>
>>> What special qualifications does Junior have?
>>>
>>> Is the as well read as his father?
>>>
>>> Has he achieved any special victories in shakubuku or strengthened the
>>> faith of millions?
>>>
>>> Where was junior hiding all these years?
>>>
>>> It looks like Junior has been declared the heir to the throne...
>>>
>>> I can't believe the American organization is going to buy into the
>>> glorification of Sensei Junior...but it looks that way...
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Derek Juhl
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Alias
2005-06-22 11:22:52 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:XbWdnfd7etteoyTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
> news:vuydnWkDItckoSTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>> news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
>>> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka,
>>> The Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not
>>> realizing the greatness of David Cole!
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke a
>> bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish
>> connection and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score him
>> a dozen Kilos or so. With the money you could buy a new set of teeth
>> Aren't those last dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?
>>
>>
>> dc
>>
>
> Suckling on the Nikken Nip.
>
>
> dc

The pathetic thing is that the Great White Hope thinks he's being cute and
clever with his immature insults.

Alias
Yelps
2005-06-22 22:19:31 UTC
Permalink
"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
news:gSbue.46016$***@news.ono.com...
>
> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
> news:XbWdnfd7etteoyTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>> news:vuydnWkDItckoSTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>> news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
>>>> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka,
>>>> The Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not
>>>> realizing the greatness of David Cole!
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke
>>> a bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish
>>> connection and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score
>>> him a dozen Kilos or so. With the money you could buy a new set of teeth
>>> Aren't those last dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?
>>>
>>>
>>> dc
>>>
>>
>> Suckling on the Nikken Nip.
>>
>>
>> dc
>
> The pathetic thing is that the Great White Hope thinks he's being cute and
> clever with his immature insults.
>
> Alias

v., sucked, suck·ing, sucks.
v.tr.
To draw (liquid) into the mouth by movements of the tongue and lips that
create suction.

To draw in by establishing a partial vacuum: a cleaning device that sucks up
dirt.
To draw in by or as if by a current in a fluid.
To draw or pull as if by suction: teenagers who are sucked into a life of
crime.
To draw nourishment through or from: suck a baby bottle.
To hold, moisten, or maneuver (a sweet, for example) in the mouth.
Vulgar Slang. To perform fellatio on.
v.intr.
To draw something in by or as if by suction: felt the drain starting to
suck.
To draw nourishment; suckle.
To make a sound caused by suction.
Vulgar Slang. To be disgustingly disagreeable or offensive.
n.
The act or sound of sucking.
Suction.
Something drawn in by sucking.
phrasal verbs:
suck in
To take advantage of; cheat; swindle.
suck up Slang.
To behave obsequiously; fawn.
[Middle English suken, from Old English sucan.]


dc
Cody
2005-06-23 10:35:10 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:nMydnYdhkdlufiTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:gSbue.46016$***@news.ono.com...
>>
>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>> news:XbWdnfd7etteoyTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>> news:vuydnWkDItckoSTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>>> news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
>>>>> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka,
>>>>> The Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not
>>>>> realizing the greatness of David Cole!
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke
>>>> a bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish
>>>> connection and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score
>>>> him a dozen Kilos or so. With the money you could buy a new set of
>>>> teeth Aren't those last dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dc
>>>>
>>>
>>> Suckling on the Nikken Nip.
>>>
>>>
>>> dc
>>
>> The pathetic thing is that the Great White Hope thinks he's being cute
>> and clever with his immature insults.
>>
>> Alias
>
> v., sucked, suck·ing, sucks.
> v.tr.
> To draw (liquid) into the mouth by movements of the tongue and lips that
> create suction.
>
> To draw in by establishing a partial vacuum: a cleaning device that sucks
> up dirt.
> To draw in by or as if by a current in a fluid.
> To draw or pull as if by suction: teenagers who are sucked into a life of
> crime.
> To draw nourishment through or from: suck a baby bottle.
> To hold, moisten, or maneuver (a sweet, for example) in the mouth.
> Vulgar Slang. To perform fellatio on.
> v.intr.
> To draw something in by or as if by suction: felt the drain starting to
> suck.
> To draw nourishment; suckle.
> To make a sound caused by suction.
> Vulgar Slang. To be disgustingly disagreeable or offensive.
> n.
> The act or sound of sucking.
> Suction.
> Something drawn in by sucking.
> phrasal verbs:
> suck in
> To take advantage of; cheat; swindle.
> suck up Slang.
> To behave obsequiously; fawn.
> [Middle English suken, from Old English sucan.]
>
>
> dc

What is your point, other than being able to copy and paste the definition
of "suck"?

Cody
Shimutani
2005-06-23 15:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Cody wrote:

>
> What is your point, other than being able to copy and paste the definition
> of "suck"?

Never give a Pinhead an even break?
Cody
2005-06-23 15:47:48 UTC
Permalink
"Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote
>
>
> Cody wrote:
>
>>
>> What is your point, other than being able to copy and paste the
>> definition
>> of "suck"?
>
> Never give a Pinhead an even break?

More like the Great White Hope is hung up on sucking, being as he doesn't
get any.

Cody
myoama
2005-06-23 16:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Alan says:
>Never give a Pinhead an even break?<

Speaking of which, you never did reply about "SGI's latest campaign".
You know, this one:

April 12, 2005 Southeastern Zone Soka Spirit Tele-conference
Good Evening,
I am Richard Yoshimachi and I have recently been appointed as a
Southeastern Zone Men¹s Division leader. I am truly looking forward to
work with you to make the next step of our Kose Rufu movement......
Today, because of your strong commitment and seeking spirit in Soka
Spirit movement, Mr. Norimasa Saito, SGI North America Bureau Chief has
joined with us in this conference. I hope we can learn further
understanding and importance of the Soka Spirit movement.
President Ikeda has repeatedly expressed that one of the most important
things in the path of Kosen-Rufu is to protect our precious members.
One of the protections is to expand understanding and the force of
Buddha, and other is to protect them from the forces to take away
members opportunity to become absolutely happy and destroys the unity
of our comrades.
Toward this end, we have confirmed following 3 points as important
direction of Soka Spirit movement at recent CEC.
(1) Continuation of Education Movement
(2) Reconfirmation and continuation of disassociation movement
[disassociate temple members from Nichiren Shoshu]
(3) Completely up-root the future cause of existence of Nikken Sect in
US
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I guess what bothers me about this goal from an SGI perspective is the
campaign to count and take care of more members is being combined with
a renewed emphasis on "eradicating the Nikken Sect"."

"At the same meeting that Tariq talked about the membership cards,
Linda Johnson emphasized the need to refute the "nikken Sect", and
Steve Mortan called for all of us to use this campaign to strengthen
our resolve to fight Nikken and to "eradicate the six cancer cells
Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist in this country". "

This was the national teleconferenced meeting for district leaders and
above, right? I don't think you can get more "official" in terms of
policies and directions from the leadership than that. Anyone want to
argue that this is not "official" SGI-USA policy? It's pretty clear
and pretty specific.
"...eradicate the six cancer cells Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist
in this country..."

And pretty sad. What a sorry thing to inflict on members. Resolve to
eradicate places of worship? Yuck. Smells bad. I can see the new
members' meeeting:
"Yes, when you join the SGI-USA, we will help you to learn to chant the
Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, learn about this Buddhism, and strengthen
your resolve to consider Nichiren Shoshu temples a "cancer," and to
eradicate them! Sign your membership card right here!"
That was a joke. Of course nothing like that would be said at a new
members' meeting. Folks actually get that a bit later, after they are
"in."
This was the national teleconferenced meeting for district leaders and
above, right? I don't think you can get more "official" in terms of
policies and directions from the leadership than that. Anyone want to
argue that this is not "official" SGI-USA policy? It's pretty clear
and pretty specific.
"...eradicate the six cancer cells Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist
in this country..."

"And pretty sad. What a sorry thing to inflict on members. Resolve to
eradicate places of worship? Yuck. Smells bad. I can see the new
members' meeeting:
"Yes, when you join the SGI-USA, we will help you to learn to chant the
Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, learn about this Buddhism, and strengthen
your resolve to consider Nichiren Shoshu temples a "cancer," and to
eradicate them! Sign your membership card right here!"
That was a joke. Of course nothing like that would be said at a new
members' meeting. Folks actually get that a bit later, after they are
"in.""
bodi
2005-06-23 16:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Is the Norimasa Saito mentioned the person formerly known as "Steve
Saito"?

Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org
myoama
2005-06-23 19:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
eradicating?

myoama

myoama wrote:
> Alan says:
> >Never give a Pinhead an even break?<
>
> Speaking of which, you never did reply about "SGI's latest campaign".
> You know, this one:
>
> April 12, 2005 Southeastern Zone Soka Spirit Tele-conference
> Good Evening,
> I am Richard Yoshimachi and I have recently been appointed as a
> Southeastern Zone Men¹s Division leader. I am truly looking forward to
> work with you to make the next step of our Kose Rufu movement......
> Today, because of your strong commitment and seeking spirit in Soka
> Spirit movement, Mr. Norimasa Saito, SGI North America Bureau Chief has
> joined with us in this conference. I hope we can learn further
> understanding and importance of the Soka Spirit movement.
> President Ikeda has repeatedly expressed that one of the most important
> things in the path of Kosen-Rufu is to protect our precious members.
> One of the protections is to expand understanding and the force of
> Buddha, and other is to protect them from the forces to take away
> members opportunity to become absolutely happy and destroys the unity
> of our comrades.
> Toward this end, we have confirmed following 3 points as important
> direction of Soka Spirit movement at recent CEC.
> (1) Continuation of Education Movement
> (2) Reconfirmation and continuation of disassociation movement
> [disassociate temple members from Nichiren Shoshu]
> (3) Completely up-root the future cause of existence of Nikken Sect in
> US
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "I guess what bothers me about this goal from an SGI perspective is the
> campaign to count and take care of more members is being combined with
> a renewed emphasis on "eradicating the Nikken Sect"."
>
> "At the same meeting that Tariq talked about the membership cards,
> Linda Johnson emphasized the need to refute the "nikken Sect", and
> Steve Mortan called for all of us to use this campaign to strengthen
> our resolve to fight Nikken and to "eradicate the six cancer cells
> Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist in this country". "
>
> This was the national teleconferenced meeting for district leaders and
> above, right? I don't think you can get more "official" in terms of
> policies and directions from the leadership than that. Anyone want to
> argue that this is not "official" SGI-USA policy? It's pretty clear
> and pretty specific.
> "...eradicate the six cancer cells Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist
> in this country..."
>
> And pretty sad. What a sorry thing to inflict on members. Resolve to
> eradicate places of worship? Yuck. Smells bad. I can see the new
> members' meeeting:
> "Yes, when you join the SGI-USA, we will help you to learn to chant the
> Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, learn about this Buddhism, and strengthen
> your resolve to consider Nichiren Shoshu temples a "cancer," and to
> eradicate them! Sign your membership card right here!"
> That was a joke. Of course nothing like that would be said at a new
> members' meeting. Folks actually get that a bit later, after they are
> "in."
> This was the national teleconferenced meeting for district leaders and
> above, right? I don't think you can get more "official" in terms of
> policies and directions from the leadership than that. Anyone want to
> argue that this is not "official" SGI-USA policy? It's pretty clear
> and pretty specific.
> "...eradicate the six cancer cells Nichiren Shoshu temples that exist
> in this country..."
>
> "And pretty sad. What a sorry thing to inflict on members. Resolve to
> eradicate places of worship? Yuck. Smells bad. I can see the new
> members' meeeting:
> "Yes, when you join the SGI-USA, we will help you to learn to chant the
> Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, learn about this Buddhism, and strengthen
> your resolve to consider Nichiren Shoshu temples a "cancer," and to
> eradicate them! Sign your membership card right here!"
> That was a joke. Of course nothing like that would be said at a new
> members' meeting. Folks actually get that a bit later, after they are
> "in.""
Shimutani
2005-06-23 20:25:50 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:
> Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
> eradicating?
>

So are you wondering what the difference is between the Nikken sect and
Nichiren Shoshu?
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-23 20:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> So are you wondering what the difference is between the Nikken sect and
> Nichiren Shoshu?

Nikken Shonin has not changed the teachings of Nichiren Shoshu one
iota. You have been asked numerous times to demonstrate otherwise, and
have failed spectacularly.

Derek Juhl
Kurt
2005-06-24 01:04:22 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
***@netscape.net wrote:

> Shimutani wrote:
>
> > So are you wondering what the difference is between the Nikken sect and
> > Nichiren Shoshu?
>
> Nikken Shonin has not changed the teachings of Nichiren Shoshu one
> iota. You have been asked numerous times to demonstrate otherwise, and
> have failed spectacularly.
>
> Derek Juhl
>

Don't hold your breath on this one.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 07:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Kurt wrote:

> Don't hold your breath on this one.

I haven't seen even one serious reply from Alan. He posts either SGI
propaganda or smart-ass one liners.

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-24 10:01:06 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:
> Kurt wrote:
>
> > Don't hold your breath on this one.
>
> I haven't seen even one serious reply from Alan. He posts either SGI
> propaganda or smart-ass one liners.

Since when did NS pubications become SGI propaganda?

"Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms
pressed together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5

"The 3 Treasures exist in the High Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to
teach (correctly) that they exist in the Gohonzon, but that was before
Nikken became High Priest.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 10:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> "Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms
> pressed together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
> possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
> is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5
>
> "The 3 Treasures exist in the High Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to
> teach (correctly) that they exist in the Gohonzon, but that was before
> Nikken became High Priest.

Nichikan Shonin was high priest long before Nikken Shonin.

"I offer my sincere devotion to Nikko Shonin, the primary High Priest
of the ten thousand years of Mappo and the founder of the Head Temple
Taisekiji. I offer my sincere devotion to the High Priest Nichimoku
Shonin, the master of the seat of the Law, and to each of the
successive High Priests to whom the Law is transmitted. In this way,
one should single-mindedly chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and fix one's mind
on the Three Treasures, fingering the prayer beads." 26th High Priest,
Nichikan Shonin

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 11:06:40 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> "Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms
> pressed together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
> possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
> is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5

Nothing new there. Long before Nikken Shonin became high priest,
Nichikan Shonin, 26th High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu wrote:

"It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
from the inside the body, they [the Three Treasures] are really one
body. Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes
the Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
Priest on the right."

Derek Juhl
Kurt
2005-06-25 01:07:20 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

> ***@netscape.net wrote:
> > Kurt wrote:
> >
> > > Don't hold your breath on this one.
> >
> > I haven't seen even one serious reply from Alan. He posts either SGI
> > propaganda or smart-ass one liners.
>
> Since when did NS pubications become SGI propaganda?
>
> "Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms
> pressed together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
> possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
> is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5
>
> "The 3 Treasures exist in the High Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to
> teach (correctly) that they exist in the Gohonzon, but that was before
> Nikken became High Priest.
>

Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly, you
have a learning disorder.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Kurt
2005-06-25 01:10:53 UTC
Permalink
In article <labolide-***@news.giganews.com>,
Kurt <***@spacegmail.com> wrote:

> In article <***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > ***@netscape.net wrote:
> > > Kurt wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don't hold your breath on this one.
> > >
> > > I haven't seen even one serious reply from Alan. He posts either SGI
> > > propaganda or smart-ass one liners.
> >
> > Since when did NS pubications become SGI propaganda?
> >
> > "Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms
> > pressed together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
> > possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
> > is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5
> >
> > "The 3 Treasures exist in the High Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to
> > teach (correctly) that they exist in the Gohonzon, but that was before
> > Nikken became High Priest.
> >
>
> Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
> constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly, you
> have a learning disorder.

I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
The learning disorder part is correct.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 01:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Kurt wrote:

> > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
> > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly, you
> > have a learning disorder.
>
> I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
> The learning disorder part is correct.

He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
we should have regarding them.

Derek Juhl
Kurt
2005-06-25 01:50:22 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
***@netscape.net wrote:

> Kurt wrote:
>
> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly, you
> > > have a learning disorder.
> >
> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>
> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
> we should have regarding them.
>
> Derek Juhl
>

He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.

Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Yelps
2005-06-25 01:56:27 UTC
Permalink
"Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>
>> Kurt wrote:
>>
>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly, you
>> > > have a learning disorder.
>> >
>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>
>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
>> we should have regarding them.
>>
>> Derek Juhl
>>
>
> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>
> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>

There's nothing to "debate."

The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is perverting
and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.


dc
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 02:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Yelps wrote:

> The Gakkai is real Nichiren Shoshu right now

"The fundamental principle of Nichiren Shoshu is the Heritage of the
Law transmitted to a sole person. It is, indeed, the correct objective
for both Priesthood and laity to follow the High Priest who has
received this Heritage of the Law. If we err on this single point,
everything will crumble." Daisaku Ikeda, Jan. 24, 1982, Soka Univ.
gymnasium: "Kofu to Jinsei Wo Kataru," vol. 3, p. 32

Witness the crumbling:

http://www.sg-eye.com

Derek Juhl
Cody
2005-06-25 09:47:33 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>
>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>
>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly,
>>> > > you
>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>> >
>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>
>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>
>>> Derek Juhl
>>>
>>
>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>
>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>
>
> There's nothing to "debate."

Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>
> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is perverting
> and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>
>
> dc

The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with it,
schmuck.

Cody
Yelps
2005-06-25 09:59:41 UTC
Permalink
"Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>
> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly,
>>>> > > you
>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>> >
>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>
>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>
>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>
>>>
>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>
>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>
>>
>> There's nothing to "debate."
>
> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>
>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is perverting
>> and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>
>>
>> dc
>
> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with it,
> schmuck.
>
> Cody


Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage by a
sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to themselves.

Pinhead.

dc
Cody
2005-06-25 10:09:07 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:htCdnQ9g4Z6WtiDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>>
>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
>>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly,
>>>>> > > you
>>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct attitude
>>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
>>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>>
>>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There's nothing to "debate."
>>
>> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>>
>>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is
>>> perverting and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>>
>>>
>>> dc
>>
>> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with it,
>> schmuck.
>>
>> Cody
>
>
> Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage by a
> sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to themselves.
>
> Pinhead.
>
> dc

You're (gasp!) wrong. We are growing. My own little meetings are growing. We
have a new member from Germany who will be receiving a bonafide Gohonzon
soon. How are your meetings going, Oh Great White Hope? Do you have a sign
on the door that says, "Pinheads begone!"?

Cody
Yelps
2005-06-25 10:16:18 UTC
Permalink
"Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
news:43ave.53182$***@news.ono.com...
>
> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
> news:htCdnQ9g4Z6WtiDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>> news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>>>
>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts we
>>>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that sadly,
>>>>>> > > you
>>>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>>>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct
>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
>>>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing to "debate."
>>>
>>> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>>>
>>>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is
>>>> perverting and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dc
>>>
>>> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with it,
>>> schmuck.
>>>
>>> Cody
>>
>>
>> Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage by a
>> sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to themselves.
>>
>> Pinhead.
>>
>> dc
>
> You're (gasp!) wrong. We are growing. My own little meetings are growing.
> We have a new member from Germany who will be receiving a bonafide
> Gohonzon soon. How are your meetings going, Oh Great White Hope? Do you
> have a sign on the door that says, "Pinheads begone!"?
>
> Cody

You might be trying but you are kidding yourself. Nikken and the Priests
who support him are lying to you and you are stupidly buying it--because
you just hate the Gakkai. Getting people involved with Nikken is Ghoul
Training.

dc
Cody
2005-06-25 10:30:24 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:QM6dnZHj6KlysyDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:43ave.53182$***@news.ono.com...
>>
>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>> news:htCdnQ9g4Z6WtiDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>> news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts
>>>>>>> > > we
>>>>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that
>>>>>>> > > sadly, you
>>>>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings on
>>>>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct
>>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
>>>>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing to "debate."
>>>>
>>>> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is
>>>>> perverting and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> dc
>>>>
>>>> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with
>>>> it, schmuck.
>>>>
>>>> Cody
>>>
>>>
>>> Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage by
>>> a sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to themselves.
>>>
>>> Pinhead.
>>>
>>> dc
>>
>> You're (gasp!) wrong. We are growing. My own little meetings are growing.
>> We have a new member from Germany who will be receiving a bonafide
>> Gohonzon soon. How are your meetings going, Oh Great White Hope? Do you
>> have a sign on the door that says, "Pinheads begone!"?
>>
>> Cody
>
> You might be trying but you are kidding yourself. Nikken and the Priests
> who support him are lying to you and you are stupidly buying it--because
> you just hate the Gakkai. Getting people involved with Nikken is Ghoul
> Training.
>
> dc

I already told you I don't hate the Gakkai. I am happy with Nichiren Shoshu
and, sorry, I don't see any of the demons and goblins you see but, then
again, I don't have flashbacks like you apparently have. How are your
meetings going?

Cody
Yelps
2005-06-25 17:49:07 UTC
Permalink
"Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
news:1nave.46589$***@news.ono.com...
>
> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
> news:QM6dnZHj6KlysyDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>> news:43ave.53182$***@news.ono.com...
>>>
>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>> news:htCdnQ9g4Z6WtiDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>>> news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts
>>>>>>>> > > we
>>>>>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that
>>>>>>>> > > sadly, you
>>>>>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>>>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct
>>>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only
>>>>>>> posts
>>>>>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's nothing to "debate."
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is
>>>>>> perverting and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dc
>>>>>
>>>>> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with
>>>>> it, schmuck.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cody
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage by
>>>> a sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Pinhead.
>>>>
>>>> dc
>>>
>>> You're (gasp!) wrong. We are growing. My own little meetings are
>>> growing. We have a new member from Germany who will be receiving a
>>> bonafide Gohonzon soon. How are your meetings going, Oh Great White
>>> Hope? Do you have a sign on the door that says, "Pinheads begone!"?
>>>
>>> Cody
>>
>> You might be trying but you are kidding yourself. Nikken and the Priests
>> who support him are lying to you and you are stupidly buying it--because
>> you just hate the Gakkai. Getting people involved with Nikken is Ghoul
>> Training.
>>
>> dc
>
> I already told you I don't hate the Gakkai. I am happy with Nichiren
> Shoshu and, sorry, I don't see any of the demons and goblins you see but,
> then again, I don't have flashbacks like you apparently have. How are your
> meetings going?
>
> Cody

You should face certain realities about Nikken and stop living in la la land
and supporting the most damaging and corrupt Priest in Nichiren Shoshu
history.


dc

dc
Cody
2005-06-25 22:49:22 UTC
Permalink
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:m-udndwnGu2SBCDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:1nave.46589$***@news.ono.com...
>>
>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>> news:QM6dnZHj6KlysyDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>> news:43ave.53182$***@news.ono.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:htCdnQ9g4Z6WtiDfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cody" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
>>>>> news:SK9ve.53180$***@news.ono.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:HbOdnWPnd_ZVJCHfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Kurt" <***@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:labolide-***@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>> ***@netscape.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kurt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > > Alan, as long as you parrot this SGI nonsense and ignore facts
>>>>>>>>> > > we
>>>>>>>>> > > constantly post to the contrary, we'll have to assume that
>>>>>>>>> > > sadly, you
>>>>>>>>> > > have a learning disorder.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
>>>>>>>>> > The learning disorder part is correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's been awfully quiet since I posted Nichikan Shonin's writings
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the Three Treasures, the Heritage of the Law, and the correct
>>>>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>>>>> we should have regarding them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Derek Juhl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only
>>>>>>>> posts
>>>>>>>> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aren't there any SGI members lurking who sincerely want to debate?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's nothing to "debate."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really, not even Pinheadedism?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Gakkai, is real Nichiren Shoshu right now, since Nikken is
>>>>>>> perverting and altering warning articles to suit his court calender.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Gakkai is a cult and Nichiren Shoshu is True Buddhism. Live with
>>>>>> it, schmuck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cody
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nichiren Shoshu isn't around these days. It's all being held hostage
>>>>> by a sick liar and propped up (barely) by fools---who lie to
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pinhead.
>>>>>
>>>>> dc
>>>>
>>>> You're (gasp!) wrong. We are growing. My own little meetings are
>>>> growing. We have a new member from Germany who will be receiving a
>>>> bonafide Gohonzon soon. How are your meetings going, Oh Great White
>>>> Hope? Do you have a sign on the door that says, "Pinheads begone!"?
>>>>
>>>> Cody
>>>
>>> You might be trying but you are kidding yourself. Nikken and the
>>> Priests who support him are lying to you and you are stupidly buying
>>> it--because you just hate the Gakkai. Getting people involved with
>>> Nikken is Ghoul Training.
>>>
>>> dc
>>
>> I already told you I don't hate the Gakkai. I am happy with Nichiren
>> Shoshu and, sorry, I don't see any of the demons and goblins you see but,
>> then again, I don't have flashbacks like you apparently have. How are
>> your meetings going?
>>
>> Cody
>
> You should face certain realities about Nikken and stop living in la la
> land and supporting the most damaging and corrupt Priest in Nichiren
> Shoshu history.
>
>
> dc

Sorry, I don't share your opinion, nor do I respect it. Unlike you, I have
had no problems with the priesthood, never have.

Cody
Shimutani
2005-06-26 02:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Yelps wrote:

> You might be trying but you are kidding yourself. Nikken and the Priests
> who support him are lying to you and you are stupidly buying it--because
> you just hate the Gakkai. Getting people involved with Nikken is Ghoul
> Training.
>

He's such a ghoul dude...
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 02:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Kurt wrote:

> He completely ignores the teachings we follow, and instead only posts
> what the SGI would like to think our teachings are.

Alan is merely another "hit-and-run" ARBN participant, like so many
other SGI members who crashed and burned here.

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-25 07:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Kurt wrote:
>
> I meant, "post facts that show the true context."
> The learning disorder part is correct.

You're always playing the 'context' card even when there could be no
other meaning to a paragraph.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 07:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> even when there could be no other meaning to a paragraph.

Like this?

"It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
from the inside the body, [the Three Treasures] are really one body.
Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes the
Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
Priest on the right." Nichikan Shonin, 26th high priest of Nichiren
Shoshu

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-25 09:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Here's one that's out of context...

...You may think you offered gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho
Buddha, but that is not so. You offered them to yourself. You,
yourself, are a true Buddha, who possesses the three enlightened
properties. You should chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with this conviction.
Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant Daimoku is the place of the
Treasure Tower. The Sutra reads, "Wherever one teaches the Lotus Sutra,
this treasure tower of mind will rise and appear before him." Faith
like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
especially to you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son.
You should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith.
This is the reason for my Advent in this world...


***@netscape.net wrote:
> Shimutani wrote:
>
> > even when there could be no other meaning to a paragraph.
>
> Like this?
>
> "It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
> from the inside the body, [the Three Treasures] are really one body.
> Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes the
> Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
> Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
> who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
> Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
> disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
> to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
> Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
> superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
> the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
> Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
> Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
> Priest on the right." Nichikan Shonin, 26th high priest of Nichiren
> Shoshu
>
> Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 09:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Here's one that's out of context...
>
> ...You may think you offered gifts to the Treasure Tower of Taho
> Buddha, but that is not so. You offered them to yourself. You,
> yourself, are a true Buddha, who possesses the three enlightened
> properties. You should chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with this conviction.
> Then, the place wherein you dwell and chant Daimoku is the place of the
> Treasure Tower. The Sutra reads, "Wherever one teaches the Lotus Sutra,
> this treasure tower of mind will rise and appear before him." Faith
> like yours is so extremely rare that I will inscribe the Treasure Tower
> especially to you. You should never transfer it to anyone but your son.
> You should never show it to others unless they have steadfast faith.
> This is the reason for my Advent in this world...

I have no criticism of that passage.

As your supposed proof that Nikken Shonin changed the teachings of
Nichiren Shoshu, you quoted,

"Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms pressed
together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5

You then posted your opinion, "The 3 Treasures exist in the High
Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to teach (correctly) that they exist in
the Gohonzon, but that was before Nikken became High Priest."

However, long before Nikken Shonin became high priest, Nichikan Shonin
wrote,

"I offer my sincere devotion to Nikko Shonin, the primary High Priest
of the ten thousand years of Mappo and the founder of the Head Temple
Taisekiji. I offer my sincere devotion to the High Priest Nichimoku
Shonin, the master of the seat of the Law, and to each of the
successive High Priests to whom the Law is transmitted. In this way,
one should single-mindedly chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and fix one's mind
on the Three Treasures, fingering the prayer beads."

And,

"It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
from the inside the body, they [the Three Treasures] are really one
body. Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes
the Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
Priest on the right."

Are you hoping this will go away if you ignore it?

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-25 18:02:03 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:

>
> "It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
> from the inside the body, they [the Three Treasures] are really one
> body. Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes
> the Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
> Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
> who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
> Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
> disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
> to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
> Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
> superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
> the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
> Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
> Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
> Priest on the right."
>

So the three treasures are Nichiren (Buddha), the Gohonzon (Law) and
Priest (Nikko).
The successive high priests are different but NS says that the HPs are
equal to Nikko. Am I wrong about this?
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 23:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> So the three treasures are Nichiren (Buddha), the Gohonzon (Law) and
> Priest (Nikko).
> The successive high priests are different but NS says that the HPs are
> equal to Nikko. Am I wrong about this?

It has always been Nichiren Shoshu doctrine that the successive high
priests are included in the Three Treasures. The correct definition
can be found in _The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin_, Vol. 1,
first published in 1979:

"...'the Priest' is Nikko Shonin, who succeeded Nichiren Daishonin, and
also indicates the successive high priests." (p. 343)

Soka Gakkai changed this definition in volumes 2 and 3:

Vol. 2, first publ. 1981: "...'the Priesthood' is specifically Nikko
Shonin, who succeeded Nichiren Daishonin, and more broadly indicates
the successive high priests." (p. 373)

Vol. 3, publ. 1985: "...'the Priesthood' is Nikko Shonin." (p. 371)

Notice that the 1979 (Vol. 1) definition states unequivocally that the
Treasure of the Priest includes the successive high priests. This was
printed shortly after the Line of '77, when Mr Ikeda apologised to
Dai-Gohonzon and Taisekiji for Soka Gakkai's doctrinal deviations.

The 1981 definition of the Treasure of the Priest still includes the
successive high priests, but in less concrete terms. We see the use of
"specifically" to mean Nikko Shonin, and "more broadly" to mean the
successive high priests.

By 1985, the definition became only, "Nikko Shonin." Period. Nothing
even about Nichimoku Shonin, let alone Nichido Shonin.

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-26 01:47:08 UTC
Permalink
In its 1991 documents, Remonstrance to the Soka Gakkai to Disband and
Notification of the Excommunication of the Soka Gakkai from Nichiren
Shoshu, Nichiren Shoshu asserted to the Soka Gakkai that criticizing
the high priest destroys the hree treasures of Buddhism because each
successive high priest is correctly understood to be the reasure of the
priest. However, this assertion in itself is flawed and has no basis in
the principles or doctrine of Nichiren Daishonin's teachings.

In Buddhism in general, the three treasures are defined as the Buddha,
the Dharma (the Law or teachings the Buddha expounds), and the Sangha
(the Buddhist Order or community believers, i.e., those who spread the
Buddha's teachings) Traditionally in Nichiren Shoshu, the three
treasures of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism have been defined as
follows: the treasure of the Buddha is Nichiren Daishonin; the treasure
of the Dharma, or the Law, is the Dai-Gohonzon bestowed upon all
humanity; and the treasure of Sangha, or community of believers, is
Nikko Shonin because he correctly preserved, propagated, and
transmitted and the Daishonin's Buddhism. Without Nikko Shonin's
efforts, we could not enjoy the benefit of the Daishonin's Buddhism
today.

****************************

Nichikan, the 26th high priest of Taiseki-ji, referred to this original
meaning of The Three Treasures in his work titled On the Observances of
this School:

The treasure of the Buddha of time without beginning is none other than
the founder, the Daishonin. The treasure of the Law of time without
beginning accords with the great object of devotion of the essential
teaching, and the treasure of the priest of time without beginning,
accords with the founder of this temple, [Nikko Shonin]. (Six Volume
Writings of Nichikan, p. 225).

************************

Article 4 of Nichiren Shoshu's by- laws clearly reads: In this school,
the great mandala is the Treasure of the Law, the founder of the
school, Nichiren Daishonin, is the Treasure of the Buddha, and the
person who inherited the lifeblood or heritage, Nikko Shonin, is the
Treasure of the Priest.

************************

The 66th high priest Nittatsu Shonin, said: The three treasures in our
school stand as follows, the Gohonzon is the treasure of the Law, the
Daishonin as the treasure of the Buddha, and Nikko Shonin as the
treasure of the priest. In contrast to this, Nichimoku Shonin is the
lord of the chair... and those from Nichimoku Shonin on are all like
the current within a tube, the flow within a pipe which does nothing
more than pass this on (like a conduit).

The office of high priest, rather than being a focus of veneration as
one of the Three Treasures, is SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION to protect the
three treasures and transmit them to future generations. The ORIGINAL
SIGNIFICANCE of what is called the TREASURE OF THE PRIEST, however, is
even broader. The Japanese word So, which is narrowly translated as
priest, actually means sangha, which can be defined as the harmonious
order of believers who correctly transmit and spread the three
treasures. If we examine the origins of the word So or Sangha, we find
it is correctly interpreted as the gathering of people who, regardless
of their position as clergy or laity, practice Buddhism in accord with
the Law by transmitting and spreading it to all people.

In this sense, we can clearly see that the SGI is the modern day
version of the Sangha, or harmonious body of believers. This is the
Treasure of the Priest in the BROAD SENSE.

High Priest Nikken is attempting to destroy Buddhism itself and leaves
no reason to include him in the broad definition of the treasure of the
priest.

Regarding a believer's reverence for the three treasures, Nittatsu, the
66th high priest of Nichiren Shoshu, also stated: In short, the correct
way of our school is to regard the Gohonzon of the oneness of the
Person and the Law as the basis of all. In the Gohonzon are contained
all of the three treasures. When you enshrine the Gohonzon in a
Buddhist altar and exert yourself in faith morning and evening, you are
already paying sufficient respect toward the three treasures (from a
sermon delivered on July 27, 1977). In other words, to revere the three
treasures of the Daishonin's Buddhism means to regard the Gohonzon as
the basis of faith and practice.

The current priesthood's interpretation of the three treasures is not
only doctrinally and theortically incorrect, it is entirely
self-serving. It is intended to do nothing other than elevate
themselves to the status of a religious object of veneration, and to
exclude believers who are not professional clergy from this sanctified
status.
bodi
2005-06-26 02:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:
>In its 1991 documents, Remonstrance to the Soka Gakkai to Disband and
>Notification of the Excommunication of the Soka Gakkai from Nichiren
>Shoshu, Nichiren Shoshu asserted to the Soka Gakkai that criticizing
>the high priest destroys the hree treasures of Buddhism because each
>successive high priest is correctly understood to be the reasure of the
>priest. However, this assertion in itself is flawed and has no basis in
>the principles or doctrine of Nichiren Daishonin's teachings.


Sez who, your flawed sensei? Oh, that's right, he's got a team of
lawyers workin' day and night to word these responses!



>The current priesthood's interpretation of the three treasures is not
>only doctrinally and theortically incorrect, it is entirely
>self-serving. It is intended to do nothing other than elevate
>themselves to the status of a religious object of veneration, and to
>exclude believers who are not professional clergy from this sanctified
>status.


Speaking of sanctity, when's that "sanctimonious" sonuvabitch Ikeda
gonna quit extolling himself in your orgs pubs? Before or after the
songs and five story human towers?

Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 02:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> The current priesthood's interpretation of the three treasures is not
> only doctrinally and theortically incorrect, it is entirely
> self-serving.

"...'the Priest' is Nikko Shonin, who succeeded Nichiren Daishonin, and
also indicates the successive high priests." Glossary, Major Writings
of Nichiren Daishonin, Vol. 1, published by Soka Gakkai, p. 343

Regarding the Three Treasures, Nichikan Shonin wrote:

"I offer my sincere devotion to Nikko Shonin, the primary High Priest
of the ten thousand years of Mappo and the founder of the Head Temple
Taisekiji. I offer my sincere devotion to the High Priest Nichimoku
Shonin, the master of the seat of the Law, and to each of the
successive High Priests to whom the Law is transmitted. In this way,
one should single-mindedly chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and fix one's mind
on the Three Treasures, fingering the prayer beads."

Instead of addressing content, Alan just mindlessly posts SGI
propaganda. How interesting that he completely ignored that the Gakkai
changed the definition of the Three Treasures from volumes 1 to 3 of
the Major Writings.

It is clear from the documentary record that Nichiren Shoshu has always
considered the successive high priests as part of the Treasure of the
Priest. Even Daisaku Ikeda once had it right:

"We conduct the third prayer to express our deepest appreciation to
Nichiren Daishonin, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law. In this
third silent prayer, we also offer our gratitude to Nikko Shonin, the
second High Priest and the founder of Taisekiji. Further, we offer our
appreciation to the third High Priest, Nichimoku Shonin, and all the
successive High Priests of Nichiren Shoshu, each of whom transmitted
the Heritage of the Law to the next. Presently, as you know, the 67th
high priest, Nikken Shonin, has inherited the Law. Now he is the master
of true Buddhism." Daisaku Ikeda, Buddhism in Action, vol. 1, p. 107

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-26 03:03:49 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:
> Shimutani wrote:

> Regarding the Three Treasures, Nichikan Shonin wrote:
>
> "I offer my sincere devotion to Nikko Shonin, the primary High Priest
> of the ten thousand years of Mappo and the founder of the Head Temple
> Taisekiji. I offer my sincere devotion to the High Priest Nichimoku
> Shonin, the master of the seat of the Law, and to each of the
> successive High Priests to whom the Law is transmitted. In this way,
> one should single-mindedly chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and fix one's mind
> on the Three Treasures, fingering the prayer beads."

Nichimoku is the 'master seat of the Law' and the successive HP's fit
in the same category (the seat of the Law) i.e. alleged protectors of
the Three Treasures. Nikko is the 'specific' treasure of the priest.

Like you snipped.... in the general or broad sense everybody (clergy
including HPs and laity that work to spread the Law) are the treasures
of the Sangha.

Get it? Got it? Good...
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 03:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Nichimoku is the 'master seat of the Law' and the successive HP's fit
> in the same category (the seat of the Law) i.e. alleged protectors of
> the Three Treasures. Nikko is the 'specific' treasure of the priest.
>
> Like you snipped.... in the general or broad sense everybody (clergy
> including HPs and laity that work to spread the Law) are the treasures
> of the Sangha.
>
> Get it? Got it? Good...

Why did the Gakkai change the definition in the Major Writings of
Nichiren Daishonin? What was the agenda?

Vol. 1, first publ. 1979: "...'the Priest' is Nikko Shonin, who
succeeded Nichiren Daishonin, and also indicates the successive high
priests." (p. 343)

Vol. 2, first publ. 1981: "...'the Priesthood' is specifically Nikko
Shonin, who succeeded Nichiren Daishonin, and more broadly indicates
the successive high priests." (p. 373)

Vol. 3, publ. 1985: "...'the Priesthood' is Nikko Shonin." (p. 371)

Notice that the 1979 definition states unequivocally that the Treasure
of the Priest includes the successive high priests. This was printed
shortly after the Line of '77, when Mr Ikeda apologised to Dai-Gohonzon
and Taisekiji for Soka Gakkai's doctrinal deviations.

The 1981 definition of the Treasure of the Priest still includes the
successive high priests, but in less concrete terms. We see the use of
"specifically" to mean Nikko Shonin, and "more broadly" to mean the
successive high priests.

By 1985, the definition became only, "Nikko Shonin." Period. Nothing
even about Nichimoku Shonin, let alone Nichido Shonin.

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-26 03:36:29 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:

>
> By 1985, the definition became only, "Nikko Shonin." Period. Nothing
> even about Nichimoku Shonin, let alone Nichido Shonin.

That was when the distincion between the 'specific' and 'general'
became formalized.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 08:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> That was when the distincion between the 'specific' and 'general'
> became formalized.

Formalise this:

"It is crystal clear that our Nikko Shonin is the disciple who is the
legitimate heir in the lineage (of the transmission of the Law). That
is why we revere the Treasure of the Priest of the Buddhism of the
Sowing of the Latter Day of the Law. Since that time, Nichimoku Shonin,
Nichido Shonin and the others are likewise this Treasure of the Priest,
and moreover, all of the Priests of this sect are again that same
thing." 26th Nichiren Shoshu High Priest, Nichikan Shonin

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 03:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Like you snipped.... in the general or broad sense everybody (clergy
> including HPs and laity that work to spread the Law) are the treasures
> of the Sangha.

SGI has descended into mass, utter confusion, just like Daisaku Ikeda
predicted. SGI says that priests and temples are not necessary, yet it
builds "temples" and staffs them with domei "priests."

Furthermore, the members can't even decide among themselves whether or
not they really are priests:

"The fact that Nichiren Daishonin passed away shows that He took a
journey to another land after preaching to His sons. The messengers
whom He sent from another land are the successive High Priests of
Nichiren Shoshu." Josei Toda, Lecture on the Sutra

"At the present time, the Soka Gakkai itself is the one and only group
of united priests which receives and inherits the 'lifeblood of
faith.'" Daisaku Ikeda, Seikyo Shinbun, 9/18/93

"Naturally, when we perform the function of the Treasure of the
'Priest,' we obtain the virtue of the Treasure of the Priest." Jim
Celer

"No, we're not priests, if by 'priests' you mean clergy. What we are --
hopefully merited through our practice -- is the Third Treasure." Jim
Celer

"There are in fact many, may references to the Three Treasures from
before 1977 or so, all of which declare that the Treasure of the Priest
is Nikko and Nikko alone. Nittatsu said: '...Nikko Shonin, the
Treasure of the Priest.'" Jim Celer

"The Daishonin praised 'monks and nuns, lay men and lay women,' which
corresponds to the 'community' that was considered the Treasure of the
Priest in his day (or more acurately, the Treasure of he Community)."
Jim Celer

But Kathy Ruby Says:

"Most other sects of Buddhism translate that treasure to be the
Treasure of the Sangha or order (sect) -- which is generally made up of
all members of the sect -- priests, lay believers, whatever. However,
the sect to which you belong has always translated it as 'priest.'
What is really meant by 'priest?' Well, historically, it has always
meant Nikko Shonin and him alone.

"However, in the BROADER sense it can be said to include the 'Sangha'
definition -- all members of the sect, regardless of their roles."

But Kathy also says:

"Nobody in SGI is a priest."

But Dick Hower says:

"All Soka Gakkai International members ... are 'the priests who know
the heart of the Lotus Sutra.'"

But SGI Andy Templeman says:

"I am not a priest."

But Bruce Miller aka Michael Howell says:

"Am I a shonin or not, that is not for us to judge, I would think not!
A priest absolutely not, included in the term Treasure of the Priest,
absolutely."

But Kathy says:

"No one in SGI is a priest ... This does not mean that SGIers ARE
priests. I personally would regard it as an insult to be mistaken for a
priest."

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 02:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Nichikan, the 26th high priest of Taiseki-ji, referred to this original
> meaning of The Three Treasures in his work titled On the Observances of
> this School:
>
> The treasure of the Buddha of time without beginning is none other than
> the founder, the Daishonin. The treasure of the Law of time without
> beginning accords with the great object of devotion of the essential
> teaching, and the treasure of the priest of time without beginning,
> accords with the founder of this temple, [Nikko Shonin]. (Six Volume
> Writings of Nichikan, p. 225).

45. Concerning Nichiren Shoshu's Treasure of the Priest, "Toryu Gyoji
Sho (On the Observances of This School)" limits it to Nikko Shonin, and
"Toke Sanne Sho (On the Three Robes of This School)" says that it is
"all the successive masters." Which is correct?

At the 28th General Meeting of the Federation of the Hokkeko, High
Priest Nikken Shonin explained:

"The Daishonin is the Treasure of the Buddha of Sowing and the Gohonzon
of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the Treasure of the Law. In contrast, the
Treasure of the Priest of the ever-present Three Treasures of Sowing,
that is, the Three Treasures of Sowing from the standpoint of their
beneficial effect upon others, is first personified by the second
founder, Nikko Shonin." (Dai-Nichiren, No. 547, p. 66)

This view of the Three Treasures of the Sowing concentrates on Nikko
Shonin as the Representative of the successive High Priests as the
Treasure of the Priest, and shows an eternally unchanging doctrine. In
addition, there is a passage in Nichikan Shonin's "On the Observances
of This School" that limits the Treasure of the Priest to Nikko Shonin
alone, but this passage is talking about the formalities of enshrining
the Three Treasures as separate entities, as seen in the Grand
Reception Hall at Taisekiji and elsewhere.

However, speaking from the standpoint of transmitting and preserving,
the successive High Priest also become the Treasure of the Priest.
Nichikan Shonin's "On the Observances of This School" states:

"The Priest to whom we must devote our lives (Namu)...is Namu Nikko
Shonin, the Great Leader of Propagation of the Essential Teachings, the
general Head Priest of the ten thousand years of the Latter Day of the
Law, and the founder of the Temple who received the conferral of the
Law, as well as the Master Nichimoku Shonin who transmitted the Law and
who is the Head Priest of the entire world to which we devote our
lives, as well as all of the successive masters, who are the direct
successors to the conferral of the Law." (Seiten, p. 971)

This indicates that from the standpoint of transmitting and preserving
the Law, the successive High Priests are also included in the Treasure
of the Priest. We can truly attain Buddhahood in this very body
(sokushin jobutsu) only by following the guidance of the successive
High Priests who have received the lifeblood of the Law since the time
of the Daishonin, the Original Buddha, by deeply believing in the
Dai-Gohonzon of the High Sanctuary of the Essential Teachings, and by
carrying out the practice of faith.

[Refuting the Soka Gakkai's "Counterfeit Object of Worship," c. 1996,
Nichiren Shoshu Temple]

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 02:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> In this sense, we can clearly see that the SGI is the modern day
> version of the Sangha, or harmonious body of believers. This is the
> Treasure of the Priest in the BROAD SENSE.

Versus:

ACTIVITES OF THE SOKA GAKKAI
THE BASICS OF BUDDHIST STUDY
Soka Gakkai Seikyo Times, August, 1979
No. 218, Pages 16-17 (excerpt)

The Unity of Priesthood and Laity

At the beginning of On Rituals (Kegi Sho), the ninth High Priest,
Nichiu Shonin, wrote, "All people with faith, whether they are lay or
clerical, high or low in status, are equal as they are entities of
Myoho-renge-kyo. However, just as a bamboo is made up of upper and
lower joints, the positions of the Priesthood and the laity should not
be confused, with the decorum between the two politely observed." The
former half of the passage explains that all people are equal with
regard to faith in the Dai-Gohonzon. This also means that Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism is equally given to all people of the world as the
Daishonin says that the Dai-Gohonzon is "the supreme object of worship
on the earth."

However, this equality between the Priesthood and the laity does not
imply that we may disregard the propriety between the two and their
respective roles. This is the point that the High Priest teaches in the
latter half of the passage.

---

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 08:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> In its 1991 documents, Remonstrance to the Soka Gakkai to Disband and
> Notification of the Excommunication of the Soka Gakkai from Nichiren
> Shoshu, Nichiren Shoshu asserted to the Soka Gakkai that criticizing
> the high priest destroys the hree treasures of Buddhism because each
> successive high priest is correctly understood to be the treasure of the
> priest. However, this assertion in itself is flawed and has no basis in
> the principles or doctrine of Nichiren Daishonin's teachings.

You don't say.

"It is crystal clear that our Nikko Shonin is the disciple who is the
legitimate heir in the lineage (of the transmission of the Law). That
is why we revere the Treasure of the Priest of the Buddhism of the
Sowing of the Latter Day of the Law. Since that time, Nichimoku Shonin,
Nichido Shonin and the others are likewise this Treasure of the Priest,
and moreover, all of the Priests of this sect are again that same
thing." 26th Nichiren Shoshu High Priest, Nichikan Shonin

Derek Juhl
Kurt
2005-06-25 01:03:39 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
***@netscape.net wrote:

> Kurt wrote:
>
> > Don't hold your breath on this one.
>
> I haven't seen even one serious reply from Alan. He posts either SGI
> propaganda or smart-ass one liners.
>
> Derek Juhl
>

He has the opportunity to truly offer inteligent responses and he
squanders it on cheap one-liners.

Aren't there any SGI members lurking who know their stuff enough to
truly debate?

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Kurt
2005-06-24 01:04:01 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

> myoama wrote:
> > Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
> > eradicating?
> >
>
> So are you wondering what the difference is between the Nikken sect and
> Nichiren Shoshu?
>

"Nikken Sect" is the derogatory name that SGI calls Nichiren Shoshu. If
you inflame your members enough, hatred can be instilled. Witness the
SGI's campaign.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Shimutani
2005-06-24 09:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Kurt wrote:

> "Nikken Sect" is the derogatory name that SGI calls Nichiren Shoshu. If
> you inflame your members enough, hatred can be instilled. Witness the
> SGI's campaign.
>

That's the problem... Nichiren Shoshu has too much sects. There's the
Myoshinko, Kenshokai, Shoshinkai... etc.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 10:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> That's the problem... Nichiren Shoshu has too much sects. There's the
> Myoshinko, Kenshokai, Shoshinkai... etc.

There is only one Nichiren Shoshu. Shoshinkai, for example, was kicked
out and has nothing to do with Nichiren Shoshu--just like SGI.

Derek Juhl
myoama
2005-06-24 05:27:01 UTC
Permalink
You never addressed the issue of your sect's latest "campaign" of
hatred.
Why? No defense for this type of hatred?

No, just wondering when this and all future hate campaigns of your SGI
sect will end?.... When Mr. D. Ikeda dies?

myoama



Shimutani wrote:
> myoama wrote:
> > Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
> > eradicating?
> >
>
> So are you wondering what the difference is between the Nikken sect and
> Nichiren Shoshu?
Shimutani
2005-06-24 09:32:37 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:
> Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
> eradicating?

Nikken's objective to rely on the 'person'(pirests) and not the 'law'
(Gohonzon).
Cody
2005-06-24 09:43:31 UTC
Permalink
"Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> myoama wrote:
>> Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
>> eradicating?
>
> Nikken's objective to rely on the 'person'(pirests) and not the 'law'
> (Gohonzon).

Not true. No parks, lakes, mountains, rivers, auditoriums, lagoons, etc.
have been named for Nikken Shonin like Ikeda has paid for. No songs are sung
to him like they are to Ikeda. All the writings I have read never mentioned
"connecting to his heart" like the guidance from your cult regarding Ikeda.
You do know what projecting means, don't you, Alan?

Or do you?

Cody
Brian Rahilly
2005-06-24 11:04:15 UTC
Permalink
in article ***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, Shimutani
at ***@comcast.net wrote on 24/6/05 5:32 AM:

>
>
> myoama wrote:
>> Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
>> eradicating?
>
> Nikken's objective to rely on the 'person'(pirests) and not the 'law'
> (Gohonzon).
>

This is how a superficial understanding on the teachings can lead one into
trouble.

Taking phrases out-of-context is the defense of a closed mind. Yes, Nichiren
often refers to "following the Law" and not persons. If you look up where he
says this you'll see that he is referring to the various other schools of
Buddhism and their teachers, not based on the Lotus Sutra. Your inference
above, that persons means priests, is a no-brainer and a serious distortion.
The Daishonin insists that teachers of the Law should base their thinking on
the Lotus Sutra and not in any other sutra, or, that they should not
formulate some instruction not based of the lotus Sutra. Here is an example
of a more fuller extract from the Gosho "How Those Initially Aspiring to the
Way Can Attain Buddhahood Through the Lotus Sutra".

"A sutra says: "Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning
[of
the teaching] and not upon the words. Rely on wisdom and not upon
discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not
on
those that are not complete and final." The meaning of this passage is that
one should rely not upon the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers, but
should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one
should rely not upon the teachings of the Shingon, Zen and Nembutsu sects,
which are based upon the Kegon, Agon, Hodo and Hannya sutras, but uphold
the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon "sutras that are
complete and final," it means upholding the Lotus Sutra."

If you like following the law, why not get your Gosho out and read it
instead of tossing these one-liners around without knowing what they are.

Look at the value he puts on the necessity of the priests in his "Repaying
the Four Debts of Gratitude".

"As for the debt owed to the Priesthood, both the treasure of the Buddha and
the treasure of the Law are ***invariably perpetuated by priests***. To
illustrate,
without firewood, there can be no fire, and if there is no earth, trees and
plants cannot grow. Likewise, even though Buddhism existed, without the
priests who studied it and passed it on, it would never have been
transmitted
throughout the two thousand years of the Former and Middle Days into the
Latter Day of the Law. Therefore the Daijuku Sutra states, "Suppose that, in
the fifth five-hundred year period, there should be someone who harasses
unlearned monks without precepts by accusing them of some offense. You
should
know that this person is extinguishing the great torch of Buddhism."
Difficult
to recompense indeed is the debt we owe to the Priesthood!"

Of course there can be poor and inadequate priests, just as anyone else can
be a inept in whatever it is that they do. Nichiren Shoshu has to deal with
that reality and they are aware of it.

Repetition of nonsensical platitudes is a revelation of discretionary
meltdown.

Brian
Shimutani
2005-06-24 19:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Brian Rahilly wrote:

>
> Of course there can be poor and inadequate priests, just as anyone else can
> be a inept in whatever it is that they do. Nichiren Shoshu has to deal with
> that reality and they are aware of it.

Are they really aware of it? Is creating more splinter priestly sects
the solution?
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 20:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Are they really aware of it? Is creating more splinter priestly sects
> the solution?

Many of Nichiren Daishonin's disciples abandoned his teachings. Nu?

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-25 07:35:32 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:
> Shimutani wrote:
>
> > Are they really aware of it? Is creating more splinter priestly sects
> > the solution?
>
> Many of Nichiren Daishonin's disciples abandoned his teachings. Nu?
>

That's wny Nikken will go dowh as the sixth senior priest.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 09:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> > Many of Nichiren Daishonin's disciples abandoned his teachings. Nu?
>
> That's wny Nikken will go dowh as the sixth senior priest.

Nikken Shonin has not changed the teachings one iota. In fact,
elsewhere in this thread, I asked you again to demonstrate how you
think he has.

As your supposed proof that Nikken Shonin changed the teachings of
Nichiren Shoshu, you quoted,

"Since times long past, our greeting the High Priest with palms pressed
together in reverence comes from the view that he is truly in
possession of that inner enlightened life, the body of the Law, which
is the Treasure of the Buddha and the Treasure of the Law." -pp. 1-5

You then posted your opinion, "The 3 Treasures exist in the High
Priest". Nichiren Shoshu used to teach (correctly) that they exist in
the Gohonzon, but that was before Nikken became High Priest."

However, long before Nikken Shonin became high priest, Nichikan Shonin
wrote,

"I offer my sincere devotion to Nikko Shonin, the primary High Priest
of the ten thousand years of Mappo and the founder of the Head Temple
Taisekiji. I offer my sincere devotion to the High Priest Nichimoku
Shonin, the master of the seat of the Law, and to each of the
successive High Priests to whom the Law is transmitted. In this way,
one should single-mindedly chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and fix one's mind
on the Three Treasures, fingering the prayer beads."

And,

"It is proper that one should make the classification that if looking
from the inside the body, they [the Three Treasures] are really one
body. Because the entirety of the so-called Treasure of the Law becomes
the Treasure of the Buddha, it can be said that Ichinen Sanzen is the
Buddha who fused his life with the Law of Kuon Ganjo, and the Buddha
who can save those who exist in each of the Ten Worlds is called
Enbutsu (a well-rounded Buddha). Then again, because the Master and
disciple relationship is like the water which is poured from one vessel
to another, the Master and disciple are one body. Therefore, the Three
Treasures are one body. If looking at the outside surface, the relative
superiority and inferiority of each is clear. That is, a Buddha holds
the Law as his Master, while the Priest holds the Buddha as his Master.
Therefore, with the Treasure of the Law enshrined in the center, the
Treasure of the Buddha is enshrined on the left and the Treasure of the
Priest on the right."

Are you hoping this will go away if you ignore it? Are you just
another hit-and-run SGI participant?

Derek Juhl
Brian Rahilly
2005-06-25 11:41:58 UTC
Permalink
in article ***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Shimutani
at ***@comcast.net wrote on 24/6/05 3:37 PM:

>
>
> Brian Rahilly wrote:
>
>>
>> Of course there can be poor and inadequate priests, just as anyone else can
>> be a inept in whatever it is that they do. Nichiren Shoshu has to deal with
>> that reality and they are aware of it.
>
> Are they really aware of it? Is creating more splinter priestly sects
> the solution?
>

First of all, I don't see your more lengthy reply although it does appear in
one of yelps' diatribes this morning. Must be something askew with usenet.

Anyway, in response to your note, here is my response.

There is no definite description given by Nichiren, in the Gosho, concerning
what makes a priest different from you and me. If, however, one were to take
into consideration all the times that he mentions what happens when one acts
against a priest, then there is some idea of what it might be. In several
passages he says that a negative act committed against a priest will result
in incalculable damage to the perpetrator and that even includes acting
against a monk who has not, as yet, "received", nor "accepts" the
*precepts*. It's the precepts that you see as the central concern in your
posts, but Nichiren rules them out as a qualifiers - go check.

It can't be, that being a part of a group will insure one's future. Gakkai
members and NS followers don't create benefit simply through their
association to one group or another. It really comes down to acts committed
by individuals and by their own choice. Excuses, such as I didn't know, I
was only trying to follow what they told me, are meaningless. Personal
responsibility for one's acts is at the forefront of Buddhist thought. What
the Daishônin appears to imply about what makes a priest is that it begins
with someone who makes it his intention to enter into the order of monks
(Sangha) and to dedicate his entire being to the transmission of the Buddha
Teaching (Lotus sutra). I have met many Gakkai leaders since joining in 1969
and I have also met many priests. Equating the two is a new comparison that
didn't exist prior to the split. If Makiguchi was aware of an equality
between the two, then why didn't he just start an independent group?
Obviously he both understood and believed in the essential nature and role
of monks and priests in the Nichiren Shoshu school. Toda was even more
explicit about this as is evident in his numerous statements published in
the Gakkai press and posted here countless times.

I don't know you or what your experience has been. I would like to know.
Have you met Nichiren Shoshu priests and if so, what do you know about them
from first hand experience?

Brian
Shimutani
2005-06-25 17:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Brian Rahilly wrote:
> in article ***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Shimutani
> at ***@comcast.net wrote on 24/6/05 3:37 PM:

>
> I don't know you or what your experience has been. I would like to know.
> Have you met Nichiren Shoshu priests and if so, what do you know about them
> from first hand experience?

It's really a no brainer that there are different personalities in the
priesthood just like anywhere else.

And it's also the same with regards to the issue of 'equality.' Of
course everyone has their repsective roles in society. The question is
equality in front of the Gohonzon. For example... is the benefit of
chanting one hour the same for a layperson as it is for a priest. If
a layperson and a priest does shakubuku, is the benefit the same?
(assuming the sincerity is the same). The list goes on but as you can
see I'm not into long posts.
Brian Rahilly
2005-06-25 21:02:53 UTC
Permalink
in article ***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Shimutani
at ***@comcast.net wrote on 25/6/05 1:54 PM:

>
>
> Brian Rahilly wrote:
>> in article ***@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Shimutani
>> at ***@comcast.net wrote on 24/6/05 3:37 PM:
>
>>
>> I don't know you or what your experience has been. I would like to know.
>> Have you met Nichiren Shoshu priests and if so, what do you know about them
>> from first hand experience?
>
> It's really a no brainer that there are different personalities in the
> priesthood just like anywhere else.
>
> And it's also the same with regards to the issue of 'equality.' Of
> course everyone has their repsective roles in society. The question is
> equality in front of the Gohonzon. For example... is the benefit of
> chanting one hour the same for a layperson as it is for a priest. If
> a layperson and a priest does shakubuku, is the benefit the same?
> (assuming the sincerity is the same). The list goes on but as you can
> see I'm not into long posts.
>

Nice response, now back to the question:
have you met Nichiren Shoshu priests and if so, what do you know about them
from first hand experience?

Brian
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 22:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> It's really a no brainer that there are different personalities in the
> priesthood just like anywhere else.
>
> And it's also the same with regards to the issue of 'equality.' Of
> course everyone has their repsective roles in society. The question is
> equality in front of the Gohonzon. For example... is the benefit of
> chanting one hour the same for a layperson as it is for a priest. If
> a layperson and a priest does shakubuku, is the benefit the same?
> (assuming the sincerity is the same). The list goes on but as you can
> see I'm not into long posts.

Even Soka Gakkai once had it right:

ACTIVITES OF THE SOKA GAKKAI
THE BASICS OF BUDDHIST STUDY
Soka Gakkai Seikyo Times, August, 1979
No. 218, Pages 16-17

The Lay Organization of Nichiren Shoshu

The entirety of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism was correctly inherited
solely by Nikko Shonin. Since then up until the present day, for seven
centuries, the pure lineage of true Buddhism has been maintained
through the successive high Priests of the Nichiren Shoshu Head Temple,
Taisekiji, just as water from one glass is transferred in its entirety
into another. The Soka Gakkai, which is the lay organization of
Nichiren Shoshu, has promoted the movement for kosen-rufu which
Nichiren Daishonin willed that his followers attain.

A passage from On Attaining Enlightenment through Taking Faith in the
Lotus Sutra reads, "The three things, good steel, the corner of a good
flint and good tinder, are combined to create fire. The same is true
for prayers. The good master, the good lay believer and the good law
are combined to answer prayers and rid the country of great
misfortune."

The good law, mentioned in this passage, Is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo of the
Three Great Secret Laws. The good master indicates Nichiren Daishonin,
the True Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law, and also the successive
High Priests who carry the heritage of Nichiren Shoshu. The Soka Gakkai
members, who are lay believers of Nichiren Shoshu, play the role of
"the good lay believers" who promote the propagation of true Bud dhism
and protect Nichiren Shoshu. Its president is the leader and the
representative of "the good lay believers." The concept of "master" is
very important in Buddhism and usually refers to a Buddha. The
traditional usage of the masterdisciple concept in the Soka Gakkai
indicates leadership in the realm of laity. In other words, the
successive presidents of the Soka Gakkai were and are "masters" in the
sense that they lead propagation and give a Buddhist view of life in
society. The above passage teaches that those three things combined
together are sure to answer prayers for the happiness of all mankind
and the security of the land, or the attainment of kosen-rufu.

In 1951, after he was inaugurated as the second president of the Soka
Gakkai, Josei Toda made application to the authorities of Nichiren
Shoshu that the Soka Gakkai be established as a new religious corporate
body on the premise that it would continue to be a lay organization of
Nichiren Shoshu. There were two reasons for this:

1) The Soka Gakkai would stand on its own feet in order to shoulder
the responsibility for coping with all difficulties impeding kosen-rufu
and to protect the Head Temple.

2) As a religious corporate body, the Gakkai would be able to more
smoothly carry on a wide range of propagation activities in the future.

On this occasion, the authorities concerned instructed the Soka Gakkai
to abide by the following three agreements:

1) The Soka Gakkai shall let those people it has converted to Nichiren
Shoshu belong to one of the sect's local temples.

2) The Soka Gakkai shall follow the doctrines of Nichiren Shoshu.

3) The Soka Gakkai shall protect the Three Treasures of the Buddha, the
Law and the Priest.

In August 1952, the Soka Gakkai legally became a religious corporation.
Since then until now, for nearly thirty years, the Soka Gakkai has been
expanding its activities toward kosen-rufu and grown as great as it is
today. Such a striking advancement may well be called a manifestation
of the power of the Dai-Gohonzon of the High Sanctuary. Therefore, we
continue to revere the Head Temple which enshrines this Dai-Gohonzon as
the central place of our faith.

The Unity of Priesthood and Laity

At the beginning of On Rituals (Kegi Sho), the ninth High Priest,
Nichiu Shonin, wrote, "All people with faith, whether they are lay or
clerical, high or low in status, are equal as they are entities of
Myoho-renge-kyo. However, just as a bamboo is made up of upper and
lower joints, the positions of the Priesthood and the laity should not
be confused, with the decorum between the two politely observed." The
former half of the passage explains that all people are equal with
regard to faith in the Dai-Gohonzon. This also means that Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism is equally given to all people of the world as the
Daishonin says that the Dai-Gohonzon is "the supreme object of worship
on the earth."

However, this equality between the Priesthood and the laity does not
imply that we may disregard the propriety between the two and their
respective roles. This is the point that the High Priest teaches in the
latter half of the passage.

At the November 1978 leaders meeting to commemorate the forty-eighth
anniversary of the Soka Gakkai, Honorary President Daisaku Ikeda
stressed the harmonious unity between the clergy and the laity in his
address.

I have repeatedly emphasized the importance of harmony between the
clergy and the laity. It is my firm belief that we can never achieve
kosen-rufu without it. Therefore, let us confirm that the Soka Gakkai's
eternal guiding principle is to protect, support and advance hand in
hand with the Nichiren Shoshu Priesthood. Not only within our Buddhist
circles, but in society as a whole, the greatest challenges lie in the
questions of how to harmonize forces of tradition and modernization,
history and progress, as well as standards and social development.
Development without norms, progress without respect for tradition are
all rooted shallowly and cannot last. Therefore, in promoting Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism with respect to our time, in our society and
throughout the world, we must resolve to advance our activities with
full consideration of the traditions of Nichiren Shoshu and the
orthodoxy of its doctrine.

While we take into account the traditions of Nichiren Shoshu with its
seven-hundred-year history or, in a broader sense, those of the
three-thousand-year history of Buddhism, we continue propagation in
order to save all people throughout the world.

To be sure, a religious organization must keep abreast of the times.
Yet, if it fails to strictly observe the prime points that transcend
the times, it will deviate from the correct path of faith. How to
harmonize these two requirements is the key to ideally developing the
organization in any place and at any time. We can see that the eternal
unity between the clergy and the laity is the basis for the
perpetuation of the Law and kosen-rufu. In the history of the world,
religions have always been confronted by problems pertaining to the
relationship between Priests and laymen. Our success in creating model
unity between the two will not only secure the flourishing of Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism but also become an example for all religions in
the world.

The Ultimate Aim: World Peace

The ultimate purpose of the Soka Gakkai is kosen-rufu to spread
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism to all people throughout the world.
Nichiren Daishonin says in the Ongi Kuden, "The greatest wish is to
propagate the Lotus Sutra." He devoted his entire life to spreading the
true law in the face of all hardships and persecutions. He also
mandated future generations to achieve this great wish. In order to
realize this spirit of Nichiren Daishonin, the Soka Gakkai observes the
doctrines of Nichiren Shoshu and carries on a religious movement for
the salvation of mankind. The essential meaning of Buddhism lies in
solving fundamental human sufferings of birth, old age, sickness and
death, which can never be dealt with through such external approaches
as politics, economics or college education.

---

Derek Juhl
op
2005-06-25 18:39:22 UTC
Permalink
>> Brian Rahilly wrote:

> It can't be, that being a part of a group will insure one's future. Gakkai
> members and NS followers don't create benefit simply through their
> association to one group or another. It really comes down to acts
> committed
> by individuals and by their own choice.

Thanks, Brian. This is what I believe to be true, also. op
myoama
2005-06-24 21:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Alan,
Not true, however you knew that.

Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues its
campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?

Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
to it" without question?

myoama



Shimutani wrote:
> myoama wrote:
> > Since there is no "Nikken sect", exactly what is it that SGI is
> > eradicating?
>
> Nikken's objective to rely on the 'person'(pirests) and not the 'law'
> (Gohonzon).
Shimutani
2005-06-24 21:49:01 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:
> Alan,
> Not true, however you knew that.

It is true... it's been proven. And also Nichiren Shoshu is the only
sect to have worked with government political parties opposite of
komeito to slander the SGI.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-24 22:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> It is true... it's been proven. And also Nichiren Shoshu is the only
> sect to have worked with government political parties opposite of
> komeito to slander the SGI.

Prove it.

Derek Juhl
myoama
2005-06-25 01:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:
> myoama wrote:
> > Alan,
> > Not true, however you knew that.
>
> It is true... it's been proven. And also Nichiren Shoshu is the only
> sect to have worked with government political parties opposite of
> komeito to slander the SGI.

SGI uses its "political party-Komeito" to prevent D. Ikeda from facing
governmental investigations about his activities. If he is soooo
honest, then he has nothing to hide and can answer anything with a
clear conscience. What does he have to fear about answering some
questions?

Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
snip instead of replying to:

***Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues
its campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?

Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
to it" without question?***

I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.

myoama
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 01:33:15 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:

> I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
> perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
> to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
> horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.

For concrete examples of SGI's antisocial behaviour:

http://www.sg-eye.com

Derek Juhl
Yelps
2005-06-25 01:53:09 UTC
Permalink
"myoama" <***@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Shimutani wrote:
>> myoama wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> > Not true, however you knew that.
>>
>> It is true... it's been proven. And also Nichiren Shoshu is the only
>> sect to have worked with government political parties opposite of
>> komeito to slander the SGI.
>
> SGI uses its "political party-Komeito" to prevent D. Ikeda from facing
> governmental investigations about his activities. If he is soooo
> honest, then he has nothing to hide and can answer anything with a
> clear conscience. What does he have to fear about answering some
> questions?


You're a wacko. A paranoid, unappreciative Pinhead.


<snip>
myoama
2005-06-25 02:52:13 UTC
Permalink
> SGI uses its "political party-Komeito" to prevent D. Ikeda from facing
> governmental investigations about his activities. If he is soooo
> honest, then he has nothing to hide and can answer anything with a
> clear conscience. What does he have to fear about answering some
> questions?

Dave replies with:

>You're a wacko. A paranoid, unappreciative Pinhead.<

<snip>
Why thank you, Dave, I love you too. I am truly honored that you have
elevated me to
the august status of the "Pinhead Elite" as enjoyed by: Brian, Kurt,
Derek, Cody, etc.

myoama
Yelps
2005-06-25 03:02:23 UTC
Permalink
"myoama" <***@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:***@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> SGI uses its "political party-Komeito" to prevent D. Ikeda from facing
>> governmental investigations about his activities. If he is soooo
>> honest, then he has nothing to hide and can answer anything with a
>> clear conscience. What does he have to fear about answering some
>> questions?
>
> Dave replies with:
>
>>You're a wacko. A paranoid, unappreciative Pinhead.<
>
> <snip>
> Why thank you, Dave, I love you too. I am truly honored that you have
> elevated me to
> the august status of the "Pinhead Elite" as enjoyed by: Brian, Kurt,
> Derek, Cody, etc.
>
> myoama
>

Don't worry, you are even more of an Pinhead than some of them.. I already
"elevated" you to Pinhead status, with your first Pinhead post.

dc
myoama
2005-06-25 03:22:43 UTC
Permalink
>Don't worry, you are even more of an Pinhead than some of them.. I already
"elevated" you to Pinhead status, with your first Pinhead post. <
dc

Hmmm..."more of a Pinhead"... would that be a "Super Pinhead"?

luv ya,
myoama
myoama
2005-06-25 04:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Sorry, forgot this part:

Recently, many of us have expressed hope that Soka Gakkai has been
moving beyond beyond the old "Temple Issue" rhetoric. While this has
apparently been the case, in some local areas, it is quite clearly
not central SGI policy. The SGI remains committed to the destruction
of the Overseas (outside Japan) Nichiren Shoshu propagation efforts.
Below I have enclosed an excerpt, from a recent internal memo, that
clearly reaffirms the perverse goal of the Official SGI Soka Spirit
Movement, also known as as the dis-association movement.
Excerpt:
April 12, 2005 Southeastern Zone Soka Spirit Tele-conference
Good Evening,
I am Richard Yoshimachi and I have recently been appointed as a
Southeastern Zone Men¹s Division leader. I am truly looking forward to
work with you to make the next step of our Kose Rufu movement......
Today, because of your strong commitment and seeking spirit in Soka
Spirit movement, Mr. Norimasa Saito, SGI North America Bureau Chief has
joined with us in this conference. I hope we can learn further
understanding and importance of the Soka Spirit movement.
President Ikeda has repeatedly expressed that one of the most important
things in the path of Kosen-Rufu is to protect our precious members.
One of the protections is to expand understanding and the force of
Buddha, and other is to protect them from the forces to take away
members opportunity to become absolutely happy and destroys the unity
of our comrades.
Toward this end, we have confirmed following 3 points as important
direction of Soka Spirit movement at recent CEC.
(1) Continuation of Education Movement

(MOST DAMAGING TO SGI)

(2) Reconfirmation and continuation of disassociation movement
[disassociate temple members from Nichiren Shoshu]

(3) Completely up-root the future cause of existence of Nikken Sect in
US


myoama wrote:
> Shimutani wrote:
> > myoama wrote:
> > > Alan,
> > > Not true, however you knew that.
> >
> > It is true... it's been proven. And also Nichiren Shoshu is the only
> > sect to have worked with government political parties opposite of
> > komeito to slander the SGI.
>
> SGI uses its "political party-Komeito" to prevent D. Ikeda from facing
> governmental investigations about his activities. If he is soooo
> honest, then he has nothing to hide and can answer anything with a
> clear conscience. What does he have to fear about answering some
> questions?
>
> Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> snip instead of replying to:
>
> ***Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues
> its campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?
>
> Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
> to it" without question?***
>
> I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
> perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
> to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
> horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.
>
> myoama
Shimutani
2005-06-25 07:32:31 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:

>
> Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> snip instead of replying to:

You don't know the difference between hinayana and mahayana buddhism.

>
> ***Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues
> its campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?

You guys call it a 'hate campaign' because you're still fundamentally
connected to christianity. First of all it's not a campaign. Second of
all it's an activity much like many other activities for the purposes
of clarifying the DIFFERENCE between SGI and NS so that everyboyd can
make an honest assessment and leave NS for the sake of world peace.


> Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
> to it" without question?***

Typical follower of Nikken style....put words in other people's mouths.

> I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
> perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
> to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
> horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.

You should channel your imagination into something more....
ehem...value creating.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 10:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> You guys call it a 'hate campaign' because you're still fundamentally
> connected to christianity. First of all it's not a campaign. Second of
> all it's an activity much like many other activities for the purposes
> of clarifying the DIFFERENCE between SGI and NS so that everyboyd can
> make an honest assessment and leave NS for the sake of world peace.

Versus:

>From the Official SGI "Ichinet" message board:

> Actually, Paul, you can ask Mr. Zaitsu... I resigned my position in
> official protest against the current campaign to chant to close all the
> temples.

"Tell me, why should we have such sympathy for those seeking to destroy
the Law? The only mistake I think SGI's making is not chanting 2
Billion daimoku, instead of one. There were also people who needed a
visit from Fred Zaitsu far worse than you. The only difference is that
they aren't grandstanding for attention. " Paul Wersant, SGI-USA leader

>From the same board: On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:07:08 -0700 thomas ultican
writes:

"Every morning with Gongyo, I pray for the perverted Budhist doctrines
of Nikken Abe to be totally discredited and defeated. I pray for the
demise of the Nikken Sect and that the Nichiren Shoshu temple in the
bay area be closed because of lack of support. I feel these are
positive things. I am not praying for bad things to happen to people. I
am praying for evil philosophy to be eliminated." Tom Ultican, SGI-USA
member

"It is time to stand up with the hearts of lions and chase these
heretical priests from our land. I do not want any more Americans to
fall into the spiritual death traps set by the temple." Terry Ruby,
SGI-USA member

"I'll chant for the temples to closeand for the sad people like your
self to find wisdom to cure your blindness." Public statement by Joe
Stevens, "Jinzai-net" [SGI-USA Internet propaganda organization]
security official (from the SGI Discussion board)

Subject: Re: Origins of NSS "Gojukai" Date: Sat, 19 June 1999 02:34 PM
EDT "We learn to guide our lives to happiness and good fortune by
practicing the Mystic Law, and sometimes our actions also involve
protecting the Law. This is one of those cases... And since you, a NShu
member object to it as well, it seems the daimoku campaign is having an
effect. I will therefore redouble my own efforts to chant for the
temples to close, and I invite everybody to join me!" Wiley SGI-USA
member (AOL Buddhism bulletin board)

"Yes, some members have mentioned using the campaign to close temples.
I PERSONALLY support that idea.... Those SGI-USA members who are
chanting for the temples to close are chanting just for that -- for the
temples in the US to close." Public statement by Kathy Ruby, SGI-USA

True nature of the Daimoku campaign Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:08:29 GMT
From: ***@yahoo.com

"All that you have proved is that some in the SF Region regard the
campaign to be a "close-the-temples" campaign. It is not represented
that way in the WT or any official national publication, as you well
know. Of course, I have no problem personally with chanting for the
Nikken Sect temple in my neighborhood to close." Public statement by
Kathy Ruby

"We all know people going through a bad divorce, or with evil parents,
who chanted for them to die. They never did, there is no easy way to
get rid of evil ex-spouses, parents, or evil High Priests...I might
have chanted for Nikken to die if I had thought it would do any good."
Public statement by Chris Holte SGI-USA

"Based on the amount of needless hostility that has arrisen between the
Gakkai and the Temple over some clearly self serving dogmas that needed
to be jettisoned by both organizations, I can understand that members
should just chant that he would "die or something". I still wish I
could lock Nikken on Sado in a temple in a graveyard for about one
year, while Nembutsu believers wait in ambush and the snow comes in
through the walls." Public statement by Chris Holte

"All I've ever heard about is SGI members CHANTING for temples to close
- not the outlawing of a religion." Public statement by Jim Celer,
SGI-USA

Re: Inter- or Intra-Faith Dialogue with SGI Date: 24 Mar 1999 20:09:45
GMT From: ***@aol.com (Jim Celer) "Why do you think it's a
misfortune for "Nichiren" Shoshu if its temples close?" Public
statement by Jim Celer

"We are merely chanting for the sources of the confusion to close, so
the Daishonin's Buddhism can apread more freely. Pretty good karma, I
would say." Public statement by Jim Celer, (SGI "Living Buddhism"
magazine midwest Bureau Chief )

Subject: RE: [Fwd: Here I am finally. (From July 1998)] Date: Fri, 21
May 1999 17:31:59 -0700 From: Craig Ellis [SGI member]

regarding chanting to close temples: I regret that this campaign was
given such a poor shortcut to what we really need to chant about. Since
I do view that the SGI is correct and generally doing okay in its
approach to Buddhism, I want to see it continue to grow. I don't need
to tell you that the Daishonin always debated and was not subtle in his
attacks against religious organizations that he felt were leading
people to unhappiness. Well, SGI feels this way about Nichiren
Shoshu... -- >From your perspective, you should be overjoyed that we
have the 10 billion campaign to close the temples. Chanting Daimoku
works. If Nichiren Shoshu is indeed correct in it's study and
interpretation of Buddhism, then we will receive the negative
consequences of our campaign. It really is putting everything on the
line, isn't it? Email from Craig Ellis, SGI-USA member

>From the public AOL Buddhist newsgroup:

>>Has anyone heard about the latest chanting goal for SGI members? >Goal: Chant one billion Daimoku to close all NSTemples

Perhaps most disturbing of all is how the SGI members don't even try to
hide their hate and intolerance, blatently disregarding basic Human
Rights and even their own SGI Charter:

"I just recently heard about how the New York members did a special
daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain [sic] to close the temple annex that
was near the Cultural Center. Great work! Now the youth division of San
Francisco region will be starting a daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain
[sic] to close all the temples in the U.S.A. Maybe it will have an
effect on the temple in Spain." Public statement by Michael, SGI
member, Stockton (posted on the SGI's public bulletin board 1-10-99)

From: Ten_Ren (34/F/San Mateo, CA) (SGI member) Jan 11 1999 1:33PM EST
I finally got to go to the Culture Center again. It was such fun. They
had a little play called Spiritually Incorrect. They gave us a good
laugh about the situation as kind of a kick off to ask for 1 billion
daimoku to close all the temples. Everyone was excited by it. I plan on
filling up several cards of chant time. (ibid)

Subject: Re: 10 Billion Daimoku. Date: 1/28/99 11:33 AM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <***@ng12.aol.com>

I think it's a great idea to use daimoku for problems, and the Nikken
sect is such a negative force that I can't see what's wrong with
chanting to close their temples down.I certainly don't want a Nikken
temple in my area. I have no problem with people who practice with
other Nichiren sects, the only problem I have is when they single out
situations they may have had with individuals and blame it on the whole
organization, or when they spread tabloid stories around about
President Ikeda that aren't true... The less Nikken temples the less
opportunities for people to support Devadatta. Is it true the followers
of Devadatta had a small sect that lasted about 500 years after the
Buddha's passing? Hopefully, with daimoku, the Nikken sect won't last
that long. Public statement by Maureen, SGI-USA

Re: The Prophecies of the World Phibune Author: mbh
<***@nospamzimailbox.com> Date:1999/01/21 "Closing all the temples
is not a positive thing? I don't see anything negative about it. You
are not unlike the hoards of sterile bugs they breed to destroy a
species, after they think they have mated and stop looking to mate,
they find out that they were fooled, and have nothing in side, they
just die empty. Of course it is a result of our communal actions from
the past that we have to suffer the likes of you and the Nikken Shu. I
don't think the most of us want to repeat those causes and for you to
go away and stop causing misery and confusion means that we would have
to change our negative karma first. So chanting to close the temples is
a good thing and the result will be that we finally over come the
negative destiny we have to suffer y'all and then y'all will have some
other mission to fullfill cause one hand clapping doesn't make much
sound, like you gotta make the cause to get the effect. At a more
profound level, you actually are no different than the despots and
dictators you complain about. You just haven't been give the power to
enact your will to that degree. They have just kept you tethered in.
Even when you get loose for a moment, you still stay put. Like the guy
infront of the fire making boogeyman shadows and the fools who believe
in those shadows. Chanting to close the temples is a good thing.
Chanting for your happiness ridiculus. Oh please MrBill can't you just
make the cancer happy?"

Public statement by Bruce H. Miller SGI member, San Francisco

"What right does any religion have to persecute individuals, temples,
churches etc in this country? They have no right and it is strictly
forbidden by our laws.Yet an army has been formed to fight a religous
war in the USA that started and belongs in japan. Many people chanted
for the high priest to die before chanting to close the temples. While
most people in sgi-usa find this disgusting, and have not
participated,there are those who do." (From an SGI message board)

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-25 10:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> > Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
> > to it" without question?***
>
> Typical follower of Nikken style....put words in other people's mouths.

December 1, 2000 Soka Gakkai World Tribune

"The Victorious Future of Mentor and Disciple"
By Daisaku Ikeda

I can see
Those who are like demons
Milling round what,
Unbeknownst to them,
Is only an execution block.

They trample
The noble spirit
Of the Daishonin
And have become
Pitiful robbers of the Law.
Like a rapacious swarm of locusts,
Nikken and his cronies
Have exploited and persecuted
And even plotted to destroy
The Soka Gakkai,
An organization of the highest good
That has made unprecedented contributions
To spreading the Law
And worked so hard
To support and protect the priesthood.

Their evil deeds
Will go down forever in history
And they will be severely judged
According to the law of cause and effect.
This I believe
To be the unwavering position
Of the Daishonin.

It will be just as he states
In the writing "On Persecutions Befalling the Sage":
They "seem to be free from punishment at first,
But eventually they are all doomed to fall"
(The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, p. 997).

The plots and schemes of High Priest Nikken Abe and his cohorts,
Spinning a web of the most base lies
And vicious slander,
Were designed to bring us down.

Yet
We shone on brightly
Like the morning sun!
We rose boldly to the challenge,
And began our battle!

The Daishonin, too,
Was slandered as an immoral priest,
And his struggles amid persecution
Were beyond description.
Our first president Tsunesaburo Makiguchi
Used to strictly remind us
That in comparison
The persecution we encounter
Is truly small and trivial.

With silent forbearance,
The firm resolve demonstrated by the Buddha
Engraved in our hearts,
We waged an arduous struggle
To overcome
Every imaginable
Haughty and arrogant utterance.

We will not be defeated.
We are fed up
With the clamoring and abusive foolishness
Of these spiritual paupers.
In fact, our mighty, passionate spirit
Only burns all the brighter.

They who are
At times frenzied,
At times coldly silent,
At times filled with excuses,
Will eventually depart this world,
Gasping and trembling in fear.

Backsliders in faith!
Are you satisfied
To lead a life
Trapped in a maze
Of hellish depths?

Slanderers of the Law!
Having corrupted the Daishonin's teachings
And veered from the eternal truth,
Are you prepared
To drift along forever in a state of life
Of agonized defeat?

Traitors!
Having turned your backs
On the Daishonin's golden words,
Are you ready
To be burned in the fires
Of the hell of incessant suffering?
To be imprisoned in a cavern
In the hell of extreme cold?
To be shut off in the darkness
Of misery and strife,
Forever deprived of the sun's light?

---

Derek Juhl
myoama
2005-06-25 22:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:
> myoama wrote:
> > Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> > hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> > snip instead of replying to:

Alan's non-reply:

> You don't know the difference between hinayana and mahayana buddhism.


This reply has nothing to do with your trying to explain away your SGI
org's hate campaign.

> > ***Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues
> > its campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?<<

I guess it is difficult for Alan. I have as yet to see a rational
defense for SGI's latest ***HATE*** campaign.

Uhmmm, Alan,

It is called a "hate campaign" because it fundamentally is (big
surprise)
a "HATE campaign". After all, if it looks like a duck, walks like a
duck, you call it a duck. If this "activity" looks like a "hate"
campaign, reads
like a "hate" campaign, well you call it exactly what it is a "HATE"
campaign.


> You guys call it a 'hate campaign' because you're still fundamentally
> connected to christianity. First of all it's not a campaign. Second of
> all it's an activity much like many other activities for the purposes
> of clarifying the DIFFERENCE between SGI and NS so that everyboyd can
> make an honest assessment and leave NS for the sake of world peace.

Uhmmm, Alan, SGI is the one carrying out the "crusade". Then that must
mean that SGI is "fundamentally connected to christianity".

It is called a "hate campaign" because it is (big surprise) a "HATE
campaign". After all, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, you
call it a duck. If this "activity" looks like a "hate" campaign, reads
like a "hate" campaign, well you call it exactly what it is a "HATE"
campaign.


> > Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
> > to it" without question?***
>
> Typical follower of Nikken style....put words in other people's mouths.

When unable to give a logical answer, ad hominem attack--just his
"sensei Ikeda".

Besides, I follow the Buddha--Nichiren Daishonin.


> > I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
> > perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
> > to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
> > horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.
>
> You should channel your imagination into something more....
> ehem...value creating.

Another non-answer by Alan. No coherent thoughts nor coherent answers
about
SGI's hatred directed at Nichiren Shoshu and its believers. He is doing
a lot of squirming with his inability to explain.

myoama
Shimutani
2005-06-26 02:14:49 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:

> > > Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> > > hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> > > snip instead of replying to:

Based on the true spirit of Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism, the SGI-USA
is striving to establish a clear understanding that the fundamental
purpose of religion is people's happiness and well-being. It is doing
this by sharing the humanistic ideals and practice of Nichiren Buddhism
with as many people as possible. It is the conviction of the SGI that
religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve
religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its
universal humanism, we hope to stand as an example of this empowering
spirit toward creating a peaceful world in which no human life is
debased in the name of religion and the paramount concern of religious
leaders is nothing other than human happiness.
bodi
2005-06-26 02:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:
It is the conviction of the SGI that
religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve

religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY.


Then Ikeda should step down as he constantly extols himself as a
"religious authority".
In fact, I personally challenge him to resign!


While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism


Sez you.


and reconfirming its
universal humanism, we hope to stand as an example of this empowering
spirit toward creating a peaceful world in which no human life is
debased in the name of religion and the paramount concern of religious
leaders is nothing other than human happiness.


This is the horseshit you feed to the Billy Grahams and Pat Robertsons
of the world so they'll be kinder and gentler to you on their TV shows.
But they'll still "rebuke you in the name of Jaaaayyysuuuus"!

It's also why you got kicked out in the first place, when you wouldn't
refute Christianity! Nichiren Shoshu refutes Christianity, it doesn't
try to soothe or coddle them. Do you really think they would give a
rat's ass for your "humanism"?

Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org
Shimutani
2005-06-26 02:42:54 UTC
Permalink
bodi wrote:

> It's also why you got kicked out in the first place, when you wouldn't
> refute Christianity! Nichiren Shoshu refutes Christianity, it doesn't
> try to soothe or coddle them. Do you really think they would give a
> rat's ass for your "humanism"?

Is that why Nikken got an erection at a Zen temple... by refuting
Christianity? (non-buddhist teaching).
bodi
2005-06-26 02:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:
Is that why Nikken got an erection at a Zen temple... by refuting
Christianity? (non-buddhist teaching).


You really believe this gossip rag tripe, don't you?

Wayno
http://www.nstmyosenji.org
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 02:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Is that why Nikken got an erection at a Zen temple... by refuting
> Christianity? (non-buddhist teaching).

The Zen Cemetery

Soka Gakkai propagandists saw an opportunity to attack Nikken Shonin
when they realised that his family had an ancestral grave located on
grounds in a Zen cemetery. Soka Gakkai members were soon given the
impression that Nikken Shonin had performed a Zen ceremony for his
father - another previous High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu - on these
grounds. In reality the High Priest had performed a Nichiren Shoshu
ceremony for his ancestors at the grave.

It is an inevitable fact of life in Japan that Buddhists will have
ancestors whose graves are located in grounds of temples aligned with
different sects to their own. It is NOT against the Daishonin's
Buddhism for Buddhists to chant for their deseased ancestors and
maintain their graves. Such actions are described as acceptable in the
Kegisho - an early, exhaustive record of the practices of Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism - written by the respected 9th High Priest Nichiu
Shonin. Indeed,we can see from the Gosho that Daishonin himself ordered
the attendence of his own priesthood at the Nembutsu grave of his late
master Dozen-bo.

It is particularly hypocritical for the Soka Gakkai to attack Nikken
Shonin for having an ancestoral tomb in a Zen Cemetery when its own
President Ikeda has an ancestoral grave in a Shingon cemetery -
maintained according to the rites of that religion!!!

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-26 03:08:05 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:

>
> It is an inevitable fact of life in Japan that Buddhists will have
> ancestors whose graves are located in grounds of temples aligned with
> different sects to their own. It is NOT against the Daishonin's
> Buddhism for Buddhists to chant for their deseased ancestors and
> maintain their graves. Such actions are described as acceptable in the
> Kegisho - an early, exhaustive record of the practices of Nichiren
> Daishonin's Buddhism - written by the respected 9th High Priest Nichiu
> Shonin. Indeed,we can see from the Gosho that Daishonin himself ordered
> the attendence of his own priesthood at the Nembutsu grave of his late
> master Dozen-bo.

That's why Nikken snuck in and out the back door right?
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 03:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> That's why Nikken snuck in and out the back door right?

Another smart-ass one liner from our resident SGI court jester.
Everyone act surprised. =:o

Derek Juhl
Shimutani
2005-06-26 03:18:05 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net wrote:
> Shimutani wrote:
>
> > That's why Nikken snuck in and out the back door right?
>
> Another smart-ass one liner from our resident SGI court jester.
> Everyone act surprised. =:o

This is an old, old story. Nikken, the High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu,
while High Priest, performed a dedication of an ancestral grave at a
Zen Cemetery, in direct defiance of injunctions from both Nichiren
Daishonin and Nikko Shonin concerning performing ceremonies at
heretical temples.

Nichiren Shoshu now tries to excuse this by pointing out that President
Ikeda's relatives are buried in a Shingon cemetary.

If it were just that Nikken's ancestors were buried at a heretical
temple, no one could blame him. Of course. But, he is the High Priest
of the sect that calls itself the "true school" of Nichiren, and it's
not a matter of his ancestors having subscribed to another religion -
he actually performed a ceremony at the temple of another religion
(Zen).

This case also tells something about Nichiren Shoshu. Its first
reaction, when the news was released, was to say that it was not a Zen
cemetery, but another cemetery across the street from a Zen temple.
When documents and pictures showed emphatically that the cemetery in
question was indeed part of the temple, they denied he had performed
the ceremony. When pictures of him performing the ceremony were
produced, Nichiren Shoshu adopted its current attitude that President
Ikeda is just as bad as the High Priest, then as if there is no
difference between the Nichiren Shoshu High Priest performing a
ceremony, and President Ikeda's family having, in the past, used a
Shingon cemetery.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 10:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> blah blah blah

The Zen Cemetery

Soka Gakkai propagandists saw an opportunity to attack Nikken Shonin
when they realised that his family had an ancestral grave located on
grounds in a Zen cemetery. Soka Gakkai members were soon given the
impression that Nikken Shonin had performed a Zen ceremony for his
father - another previous High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu - on these
grounds. In reality the High Priest had performed a Nichiren Shoshu
ceremony for his ancestors at the grave.

It is an inevitable fact of life in Japan that Buddhists will have
ancestors whose graves are located in grounds of temples aligned with
different sects to their own. It is NOT against the Daishonin's
Buddhism for Buddhists to chant for their deseased ancestors and
maintain their graves. Such actions are described as acceptable in the
Kegisho - an early, exhaustive record of the practices of Nichiren
Daishonin's Buddhism - written by the respected 9th High Priest Nichiu
Shonin. Indeed,we can see from the Gosho that Daishonin himself ordered
the attendence of his own priesthood at the Nembutsu grave of his late
master Dozen-bo.

It is particularly hypocritical for the Soka Gakkai to attack Nikken
Shonin for having an ancestral tomb in a Zen Cemetery when its own
President Ikeda has an ancestoral grave in a Shingon cemetery -
maintained according to the rites of that religion!

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 02:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of
> Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its universal humanism

Witness SGI's DISCRIMINATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism:

SGI-USA San Francisco Regions 1 and 2 newsletters, January 28, 1999 "If
you haven't already gotten your DAIMOKU CARD IN THE SHAPE OF THE UNITED
STATES it isn't too late. This is an idea of the youth division, to
have individuals chant 52 hours of daimoku for justice and victory by
Nov. 18, 1999 so that 10 billion daimoku total is chanted so that all
Danto temples will shut down. The sheer power of such daimoku had that
effect in New York. Get them at SFCC or from YD leaders." [emphasis in
the original]

SGI Vice General Director, Guy McCloskey had this to say about the
campaign to use prayers to close temples:

Subject: Temple related Mtgs Report
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:48:27 -0700
From: ***@sgi-usa.org (Kay Yoshikawa)

During the recent training course in Japan, the representatives of the
various SGI organizations renewed their determination to not allow one
other member to be affected (or infected) by the Nikken sect. At the
June 1999 meeting of the SGI-USA Central Executive Committee, the
members agreed to focus on faith, practice and study as the keys to
victory. We will pray to the Gohonzon that the US temples will close
and that the priests will return to Japan; that no one among our
current members will be deceived by the priesthood; and that those who
have gone to the temple will arouse doubts to understand the correct
practice of the Daishonin's Buddhism and withdraw from the temple...

>From the Official SGI "Ichinet" message board:

> Actually, Paul, you can ask Mr. Zaitsu... I resigned my position in
> official protest against the current campaign to chant to close all the
> temples.

"Tell me, why should we have such sympathy for those seeking to destroy
the Law? The only mistake I think SGI's making is not chanting 2
Billion daimoku, instead of one. There were also people who needed a
visit from Fred Zaitsu far worse than you. The only difference is that
they aren't grandstanding for attention. " Paul Wersant, SGI-USA leader

On that same board:

Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:07:08 -0700 thomas ultican writes:

"Every morning with Gongyo, I pray for the perverted Budhist doctrines
of Nikken Abe to be totally discredited and defeated. I pray for the
demise of the Nikken Sect and that the Nichiren Shoshu temple in the
bay area be closed because of lack of support. I feel these are
positive things. I am not praying for bad things to happen to people. I
am praying for evil philosophy to be eliminated." Tom Ultican, SGI-USA
member

"It is time to stand up with the hearts of lions and chase these
heretical priests from our land. I do not want any more Americans to
fall into the spiritual death traps set by the temple." Terry Ruby,
SGI-USA member

"I'll chant for the temples to closeand for the sad people like your
self to find wisdom to cure your blindness." Public statement by Joe
Stevens, "Jinzai-net" [SGI-USA Internet propaganda organization]
security official (from the SGI Discussion board)

Subject: Re: Origins of NSS "Gojukai"
Date: Sat, 19 June 1999 02:34 PM EDT

"We learn to guide our lives to happiness and good fortune by
practicing the Mystic Law, and sometimes our actions also involve
protecting the Law. This is one of those cases... And since you, a NShu
member object to it as well, it seems the daimoku campaign is having an
effect. I will therefore redouble my own efforts to chant for the
temples to close, and I invite everybody to join me!" Wiley, SGI-USA
member (AOL Buddhism bulletin board)

"Yes, some members have mentioned using the campaign to close temples.
I PERSONALLY support that idea.... Those SGI-USA members who are
chanting for the temples to close are chanting just for that -- for the
temples in the US to close." Public statement by Kathy Ruby SGI-USA

True nature of the Daimoku campaign
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:08:29 GMT
From: ***@yahoo.com

All that you have proved is that some in the SF Region regard the
campaign to be a "close-the-temples" campaign. It is not represented
that way in the WT or any official national publication, as you well
know. Of course, I have no problem personally with chanting for the
Nikken Sect temple in my neighborhood to close (Public statement by
SGI member Kathy Ruby)

"We all know people going through a bad divorce, or with evil parents,
who chanted for them to die. They never did, there is no easy way to
get rid of evil ex-spouses, parents, or evil High Priests...I might
have chanted for Nikken to die if I had thought it would do any good."
Public statement by Chris Holte SGI-USA

"Based on the amount of needless hostility that has arrisen between the
Gakkai and the Temple over some clearly self serving dogmas that needed
to be jettisoned by both organizations, I can understand that members
should just chant that he would "die or something". I still wish I
could lock Nikken on Sado in a temple in a graveyard for about one
year, while Nembutsu believers wait in ambush and the snow comes in
through the walls." Public statement by Chris Holte

"All I've ever heard about is SGI members CHANTING for temples to close
- not the outlawing of a religion." Public statement by Jim Celer,
SGI-USA

Re: Inter- or Intra-Faith Dialogue with SGI
Date: 24 Mar 1999 20:09:45 GMT
From: ***@aol.com (Jim Celer)

Why do you think it's a misfortune for "Nichiren" Shoshu if its temples
close? (Public statement by Jim Celer, SGI "Living Buddhism" magazine
midwest Bureau Chief)

"We are merely chanting for the sources of the confusion to close, so
the Daishonin's Buddhism can apread more freely. Pretty good karma, I
would say." Public statement by Jim Celer, (SGI "Living Buddhism"
magazine midwest Bureau Chief )

Subject: RE: [Fwd: Here I am finally. (From July 1998)]
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:31:59 -0700
From: Craig Ellis [SGI member]

regarding chanting to close temples: I regret that this campaign was
given such a poor shortcut to what we really need to chant about. Since
I do view that the SGI is correct and generally doing okay in its
approach to Buddhism, I want to see it continue to grow. I don't need
to tell you that the Daishonin always debated and was not subtle in his
attacks against religious organizations that he felt were leading
people to unhappiness. Well, SGI feels this way about Nichiren
Shoshu... -- >From your perspective, you should be overjoyed that we
have the 10 billion campaign to close the temples. Chanting Daimoku
works. If Nichiren Shoshu is indeed correct in it's study and
interpretation of Buddhism, then we will receive the negative
consequences of our campaign. It really is putting everything on the
line, isn't it? (Email from Craig Ellis, SGI-USA member)

>From the public AOL Buddhist newsgroup:

> Has anyone heard about the latest chanting goal for SGI members?
> Goal: Chant one billion Daimoku to close all NSTemples

Perhaps most disturbing of all is how the SGI members don't even try to
hide their hate and intolerance, blatently disregarding basic Human
Rights and even their own SGI Charter:

" I just recently heard about how the New York members did a special
daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain [sic] to close the temple annex that
was near the Cultural Center. Great work! Now the youth division of San
Francisco region will be starting a daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain
[sic] to close all the temples in the U.S.A. Maybe it will have an
effect on the temple in Spain." Public statement by Michael, SGI
member, Stockton (posted on the SGI's public bulletin board 1-10-99)

From: Ten_Ren (34/F/San Mateo, CA) (SGI member)
Jan 11 1999 1:33PM EST

I finally got to go to the Culture Center again. It was such fun. They
had a little play called Spiritually Incorrect. They gave us a good
laugh about the situation as kind of a kick off to ask for 1 billion
daimoku to close all the temples. Everyone was excited by it. I plan on
filling up several cards of chant time. (ibid)

Subject: Re: 10 Billion Daimoku.
Date: 1/28/99 11:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: ***@ng12.aol.com

<<SGI has set a daimoku goal to close NST Temples?<<

[Marc Strumpf, before he left Honmon Butsuryu Shu in favour of
Christianity] If it works..can we have them?

Marc, Please join in. I think it's a great idea to use daimoku for
problems, and the Nikken sect is such a negative force that I can't see
what's wrong with chanting to close their temples down.I certainly
don't want a Nikken temple in my area. I have no problem with people
who practice with other Nichiren sects, the only problem I have is when
they single out situations they may have had with individuals and blame
it on the whole organization, or when they spread tabloid stories
around about President Ikeda that aren't true... The less Nikken
temples the less opportunities for people to support Devadatta. Is it
true the followers of Devadatta had a small sect that lasted about 500
years after the Buddha's passing? Hopefully, with daimoku, the Nikken
sect won't last that long. (Public statement by Maureen, SGI-USA)

Re: The Prophecies of the World Phibune
Author: mbh ***@nospamzimailbox.com
Date:1999/01/21

Closing all the temples is not a positive thing? I don't see anything
negative about it. You are not unlike the hoards of sterile bugs they
breed to destroy a species, after they think they have mated and stop
looking to mate, they find out that they were fooled, and have nothing
in side, they just die empty. Of course it is a result of our communal
actions from the past that we have to suffer the likes of you and the
Nikken Shu. I don't think the most of us want to repeat those causes
and for you to go away and stop causing misery and confusion means that
we would have to change our negative karma first. So chanting to close
the temples is a good thing and the result will be that we finally over
come the negative destiny we have to suffer y'all and then y'all will
have some other mission to fullfill cause one hand clapping doesn't
make much sound, like you gotta make the cause to get the effect. At a
more profound level, you actually are no different than the despots and
dictators you complain about. You just haven't been give the power to
enact your will to that degree. They have just kept you tethered in.
Even when you get loose for a moment, you still stay put. Like the guy
infront of the fire making boogeyman shadows and the fools who believe
in those shadows. Chanting to close the temples is a good thing.
Chanting for your happiness ridiculus. Oh please MrBill can't you just
make the cancer happy? (Public statement by Bruce H. Miller SGI
member, San Francisco)

"What right does any religion have to persecute
individuals,temples.churches etc in this country? They have no right
and it is strictly forbidden by our laws.Yet an army has been formed to
fight a religous war in the USA that started and belongs in japan. Many
people chanted for the high priest to die before chanting to close the
temples. While most people in sgi-usa find this disgusting, and have
not participated,there are those who do." (From an SGI message board)

Derek Juhl
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 03:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of
> Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its universal humanism, we hope to stand
> as an example

Reconfirm this:

Reconfirming Our Fundamental Mission
SGI President Daisaku Ikeda
Seikyo Times, May, 1980, No. 227, page 22-23

"Today is 22 years since my life-long teacher, Josei Toda, passed away.
On behalf of his disciples, I would like to express my sincerest thanks
to the 67th High Priest, Nikken Shonin, for presiding over the 23rd
memorial service for Mr Toda at the Head Temple Taiseki-ji. Mr Toda
contributed immensely to the prosperity of Nichiren Shoshu. He
devotedly supported the successive High Priests, always resolutely
protecting the Head Temple. After Mr Toda passed away, I was chosen to
assume the heavy responsibility of 3rd president. The movement for
Kosen Rufu has progressed exactly as Nichiren Daishonin willed. It goes
without saying that Soka Gakkai owes its development so far to the
power of the Dai Gohonzon and to the virtue of the successive High
Priests.

However, as the Soka Gakkai continues it's rapid expansion and
development, we were obliged to concentrate more and more on dealing
with the realities of society. This tendency became especially profound
in recent years. As a result, various instances of disharmony occurred
in the Soka Gakkai's relations with the Priesthood, to whom as an
organisation of lay believers, we should have paid the highest respect.
This is truly regrettable. As the person who held the highest
responsibility at the time when the problems arose, I would sincerely
like to apologise where apology is due, and at the same time express my
thoughts and feelings. In doing so, I believe I can show some measure
of my appreciation to the successive High Priests who have enfolded us
in their mercy, and I also pledge my unchanging loyalty to the 67th
High Priest Nikken Shonin.

It is true that the recent troubles with the Priesthood occurred in the
wake of the basic policy which the Soka Gakkai adopted for the 2nd
phase of Kosen Rufu, specifically since 1972 when Sho Hondo was
completed, and also as a result of guidance which I gave on that policy
during 1977. Especially in 1977, in the light of the history of
Buddhism and the teachings of the Gosho, I emphasised the mission lay
believers should perform and the awareness they should maintain as they
spread true Buddhism amid the realities of society. Through the series
of guidance I gave, I created a concept of the Soka Gakkai as a lay
believers organisation with an identity of it's own in society, in
order to expand their activities for Kosen Rufu. I had another desire
in those days. Many nameless members had dedicated themselves
single-mindedly to their mission for Kosen Rufu and died after
accomplishing heroic struggles. I wanted to do something to repay their
efforts. As a human being and as their comrade in faith, I fervently
wished to honour them for their noble services. Because of such
feelings, I sometimes outspokenly insisted that the Priesthood should
not look down upon the members who strive so devotedly for the cause of
Kosen Rufu or treat them as subordinates, but watch over them warmly.

I now admit that the words I uttered were too self righteous, too
centered on the Soka Gakkai, and sounded as if the Soka Gakkai were
primary and the Priesthood were secondary. This lead some of the
Priesthood to wonder if Soka Gakkai was contemplating a split with
Nichiren Shoshu. I deeply apologise for all of this. The Soka Gakkai
can never exist apart from the Head Temple of Nichiren Shoshu. I must
admit that I stretched too far the concept and direction set forth in
my masters thesis "The History & Conviction of the Soka
Gakkai,"without understanding the profound meaning he wanted to
convey. I also admit that in doing so I made light of the roles of the
Priests and temples of Nichiren Shoshu, creating a tendency among Soka
Gakkai members to regard their own organisation as more important than
the Priesthood. This can only be attributed to my conceit originating
from my immature faith. From the bottom of my heart I apologise to the
Dai Gohonzon.

Here I would like to reiterate my position concerning the opinion that
"the Soka Gakkai president is the original Buddha". Needless to say
that NICHIREN DAISHONIN IS THE ONE AND ONLY ORIGINAL BUDDHA OF THE
LATTER DAY OF THE LAW, AND THE SUCCESSIVE HIGH PRIESTS ALONE FORM THE
ORTHODOX LINEAGE THROUGH WHICH THE ENTITY OF THE LAW IS PASSED ON. THIS
IS A VITAL POINT WHICH WE BELIEVERS MUST NOT FORGET, EVEN FOR A MOMENT,
TO DO SO IS TO DEVIATE FROM THE CORRECT PATH OF FAITH. It is a terrible
mistake to regard me as a person possessed of the three virtues of
parent, teacher and sovereign, or "the supreme leader in the
propagation of True Buddhism".

You must NEVER use these expressions in referring to me. The recent
instances of disharmony between the Priesthood and the Soka Gakkai are
entirely due to the shortcomings of my leadership. I know this has
caused many members trouble and anxiety. For this, too I deeply
apologise to the Gohonzon every day. We, members of the Soka Gakkai,
will base our lives on faith in the founder, and in the Gohonzon, the
absolute object of worship, in the Buddhism of the Sowing which
embodies the oneness of the person and the Law.

We will eternally respect the successive High Priests as our teachers
in Buddhism. We are determined to dedicate ourselves more than ever to
supporting the Head Temple as proud and valiant fighters for Kosen Rufu
and as devoted followers of Nichiren Shoshu. I have voiced my feelings
as well as my resolve for the future on the occasion of the 23rd
memorial service for my master, Mr Josei Toda. I would like to conclude
by offering my heartfelt prayers for your good health and for the
prosperity of all your families."

---

Derek Juhl
myoama
2005-06-26 03:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Alan says in his canned response (at least I finally received one), and
where did you copy from, btw:

"It is the conviction of the SGI that
> religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve
> religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
> DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism."

Then why has SGI thrown its own obviously loyal members out of SGI, or
dismissed them from leadership responsibilities when these members are
doing exactly what SGI says to do "CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
DISCRIMANATORY(correct sp. DISCIMINATORY) interpretation of Nichiren
Buddhism" by challenging this very behaviour within the SGI
organization itself, and only asking that SGI stop pointing fingers
elsewhere and look within its own sphere first? SGI felt that these
longtime members were no longer serving the "SGI religion and religious
authority", so these members either towed the SGI party line of
"hatred" or were met with coldness and ostracism by the same leaders
who also commanded the membership to do the same.

Anticipating your "Who was this done to? SGI never took such actions,"
examples: SGI Reformation(Re-assessment) Group, the Victorious America
Group,
former leaders whose names I won't mention in order to circumvent
further retaliation by the SGI org., Lisa Jones, etc. the list is quite
long.


Neither you nor SGI(D. Ikeda) has any idea of what the "true spirit of
Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism is about."

At least we are learning to spread Nichiren Daishionin's **Buddhistic**
teachings that all beings are & can become Buddhas in this lifetime.
SGI seems stuck in the lower world of "NIN (human)" if it thinks that
Nichiren Daishonin's teaching is only about "humanism" and is basing
its ideals on this lower state. As we know, the "human" state,
encompasses anger, greed, animality and hell. Yes, Buddhahood plus the
other higher states is also there, unfortunately the lower conditions
more easily appear than the higher states. Hence, as is evidenced by
SGI's "movement" of hatred.

Quite different from Hinayana Buddhism which discriminated in that
Buddhahood was only possible in a certain form and only after countless
lifetimes of practicing the austerities.

I think that after living, practicing and studying Nichiren Daishonin's
Buddhism for more than 45 years, I might know a little about the
difference between Hinayana and Mahayana Bddhism.

Now, can you explain the difference between the Shomon and Hommon
Mahayana
teachings?

myoama


Shimutani wrote:
> myoama wrote:
>
> > > > Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> > > > hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> > > > snip instead of replying to:
>
> Based on the true spirit of Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism, the SGI-USA
> is striving to establish a clear understanding that the fundamental
> purpose of religion is people's happiness and well-being. It is doing
> this by sharing the humanistic ideals and practice of Nichiren Buddhism
> with as many people as possible. It is the conviction of the SGI that
> religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve
> religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
> DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its
> universal humanism, we hope to stand as an example of this empowering
> spirit toward creating a peaceful world in which no human life is
> debased in the name of religion and the paramount concern of religious
> leaders is nothing other than human happiness.
Shimutani
2005-06-26 04:09:32 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:
> Alan says in his canned response (at least I finally received one), and
> where did you copy from, btw:

I hand wrote it and scanned it in using OCR. Hello?


> Then why has SGI thrown its own obviously loyal members out of SGI, or
> dismissed them from leadership responsibilities when these members are
> doing exactly what SGI says to do "CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
> DISCRIMANATORY(correct sp. DISCIMINATORY) interpretation of Nichiren
> Buddhism" by challenging this very behaviour within the SGI
> organization itself, and only asking that SGI stop pointing fingers
> elsewhere and look within its own sphere first? SGI felt that these
> longtime members were no longer serving the "SGI religion and religious
> authority", so these members either towed the SGI party line of
> "hatred" or were met with coldness and ostracism by the same leaders
> who also commanded the membership to do the same.

No one ever said that SGI leaders were perfect and a lot of them did
get dismissed including GMW. Did you forget already? BTW Nikken was
base enough to think that GMW would come running with his tail between
his legs to NS.

I'd be curious to see how long NST would hold on to the likes of 'Don
Ross' etc.

> Anticipating your "Who was this done to? SGI never took such actions,"
> examples: SGI Reformation(Re-assessment) Group, the Victorious America
> Group,
> former leaders whose names I won't mention in order to circumvent
> further retaliation by the SGI org., Lisa Jones, etc. the list is quite
> long.

Trying to compare these to Shoshinkai, Kenshokai, etc. is like a
firefly to the sun.

> Neither you nor SGI(D. Ikeda) has any idea of what the "true spirit of
> Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism is about."

You're brilliant... Nichiren kept his doors closed and didn't give a
rat's ass about propagation.


> At least we are learning to spread Nichiren Daishionin's **Buddhistic**
> teachings that all beings are & can become Buddhas in this lifetime.

Yeah well at the rate you guys are going the world will disinigrate and
reappear many times over.

> SGI seems stuck in the lower world of "NIN (human)" if it thinks that
> Nichiren Daishonin's teaching is only about "humanism" and is basing
> its ideals on this lower state.

The 'Humanism' doesn't refer to the ten worlds.... get a clue already.

As we know, the "human" state,
> encompasses anger, greed, animality and hell. Yes, Buddhahood plus the
> other higher states is also there, unfortunately the lower conditions
> more easily appear than the higher states. Hence, as is evidenced by
> SGI's "movement" of hatred.

Not hatred you insecure follower of Nikken. It's a movement for
everyone to witness the real aspect of Nichiren Buddhism in action.





>
> Quite different from Hinayana Buddhism which discriminated in that
> Buddhahood was only possible in a certain form and only after countless
> lifetimes of practicing the austerities.
>
> I think that after living, practicing and studying Nichiren Daishonin's
> Buddhism for more than 45 years, I might know a little about the
> difference between Hinayana and Mahayana Bddhism.
>
> Now, can you explain the difference between the Shomon and Hommon
> Mahayana
> teachings?
>
> myoama
>
>
> Shimutani wrote:
> > myoama wrote:
> >
> > > > > Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> > > > > hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> > > > > snip instead of replying to:
> >
> > Based on the true spirit of Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism, the SGI-USA
> > is striving to establish a clear understanding that the fundamental
> > purpose of religion is people's happiness and well-being. It is doing
> > this by sharing the humanistic ideals and practice of Nichiren Buddhism
> > with as many people as possible. It is the conviction of the SGI that
> > religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve
> > religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
> > DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its
> > universal humanism, we hope to stand as an example of this empowering
> > spirit toward creating a peaceful world in which no human life is
> > debased in the name of religion and the paramount concern of religious
> > leaders is nothing other than human happiness.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 10:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> Not hatred you insecure follower of Nikken. It's a movement for
> everyone to witness the real aspect of Nichiren Buddhism in action.

Witness the SGI in action:

http://www.sg-eye.com

Derek Juhl
Cody
2005-06-26 09:59:07 UTC
Permalink
"Shimutani" <***@comcast.net> wrote
>
> myoama wrote:
>
>> > > Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's
>> > > non-Buddhist
>> > > hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose
>> > > to
>> > > snip instead of replying to:
>
> Based on the true spirit of Mahayana and Nichiren Buddhism, the SGI-USA
> is striving to establish a clear understanding that the fundamental
> purpose of religion is people's happiness and well-being. It is doing
> this by sharing the humanistic ideals and practice of Nichiren Buddhism
> with as many people as possible. It is the conviction of the SGI that
> religion should exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve
> religion or RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY. While CHALLENGING ANY AUTHORITARIAN or
> DISCRIMANATORY interpretation of Nichiren Buddhism and reconfirming its
> universal humanism, we hope to stand as an example of this empowering
> spirit toward creating a peaceful world in which no human life is
> debased in the name of religion and the paramount concern of religious
> leaders is nothing other than human happiness.

Hai!

Cody
Shimutani
2005-06-25 07:33:22 UTC
Permalink
myoama wrote:

>
> Let's see if you can address the important issue of SGI's non-Buddhist
> hate campaigns re-pasted below for your convenience, which you chose to
> snip instead of replying to:

You don't know the difference between hinayana and mahayana buddhism.

>
> ***Now, is it so difficult for you explain cogently why SGI continues
> its campaigns of hate against Nichiren Shoshu?

You guys call it a 'hate campaign' because you're still fundamentally
connected to christianity. First of all it's not a campaign. Second of
all it's an activity much like many other activities for the purposes
of clarifying the DIFFERENCE between SGI and NS so that everyboyd can
make an honest assessment and leave NS for the sake of world peace.


> Or is it simply that your sensei says "Practice hatred!" and you "hop
> to it" without question?***

Typical follower of Nikken style....put words in other people's mouths.

> I truly would like to know your thoughts about this intense hatred
> perpetuated by your organization against my religion. It is very clear
> to everyone that you seem hesitant or uncomfortable about facing this
> horrendously ugly facet of your SGI sect.

You should channel your imagination into something more....
ehem...value creating.
d***@netscape.net
2005-06-26 03:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Shimutani wrote:

> You guys call it a 'hate campaign' because you're still fundamentally
> connected to christianity. First of all it's not a campaign. Second of
> all it's an activity much like many other activities for the purposes
> of clarifying the DIFFERENCE between SGI and NS so that everyboyd can
> make an honest assessment and leave NS for the sake of world peace.

In spite of the SGI spin, it is indeed a hate campaign:

SGI-USA San Francisco Regions 1 and 2 newsletters, January 28, 1999

"If you haven't already gotten your DAIMOKU CARD IN THE SHAPE OF THE
UNITED STATES it isn't too late. This is an idea of the youth division,
to have individuals chant 52 hours of daimoku for justice and victory
by Nov. 18, 1999 so that 10 billion daimoku total is chanted so that
all Danto temples will shut down. The sheer power of such daimoku had
that effect in New York. Get them at SFCC or from YD leaders."
[emphasis in the original]

SGI Vice General Director, Guy McCloskey had this to say about the
campaign to use prayers to close temples:

Subject: Temple related Mtgs Report
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:48:27 -0700
From: ***@sgi-usa.org (Kay Yoshikawa)

During the recent training course in Japan, the representatives of the
various SGI organizations renewed their determination to not allow one
other member to be affected (or infected) by the Nikken sect. At the
June 1999 meeting of the SGI-USA Central Executive Committee, the
members agreed to focus on faith, practice and study as the keys to
victory. We will pray to the Gohonzon that the US temples will close
and that the priests will return to Japan; that no one among our
current members will be deceived by the priesthood; and that those who
have gone to the temple will arouse doubts to understand the correct
practice of the Daishonin's Buddhism and withdraw from the temple...

>From the Official SGI "Ichinet" message board:

> Actually, Paul, you can ask Mr. Zaitsu... I resigned my position in
> official protest against the current campaign to chant to close all the
> temples.

"Tell me, why should we have such sympathy for those seeking to destroy
the Law? The only mistake I think SGI's making is not chanting 2
Billion daimoku, instead of one. There were also people who needed a
visit from Fred Zaitsu far worse than you. The only difference is that
they aren't grandstanding for attention. " Paul Wersant, SGI-USA leader

On that same board:

Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:07:08 -0700 thomas ultican writes:

"Every morning with Gongyo, I pray for the perverted Budhist doctrines
of Nikken Abe to be totally discredited and defeated. I pray for the
demise of the Nikken Sect and that the Nichiren Shoshu temple in the
bay area be closed because of lack of support. I feel these are
positive things. I am not praying for bad things to happen to people. I
am praying for evil philosophy to be eliminated." Tom Ultican, SGI-USA
member

"It is time to stand up with the hearts of lions and chase these
heretical priests from our land. I do not want any more Americans to
fall into the spiritual death traps set by the temple." Terry Ruby,
SGI-USA member

"I'll chant for the temples to closeand for the sad people like your
self to find wisdom to cure your blindness." Public statement by Joe
Stevens, "Jinzai-net" [SGI-USA Internet propaganda organization]
security official (from the SGI Discussion board)

Subject: Re: Origins of NSS "Gojukai"
Date: Sat, 19 June 1999 02:34 PM EDT

"We learn to guide our lives to happiness and good fortune by
practicing the Mystic Law, and sometimes our actions also involve
protecting the Law. This is one of those cases... And since you, a NShu
member object to it as well, it seems the daimoku campaign is having an
effect. I will therefore redouble my own efforts to chant for the
temples to close, and I invite everybody to join me!" Wiley, SGI-USA
member (AOL Buddhism bulletin board)

"Yes, some members have mentioned using the campaign to close temples.
I PERSONALLY support that idea.... Those SGI-USA members who are
chanting for the temples to close are chanting just for that -- for the
temples in the US to close." Public statement by Kathy Ruby SGI-USA

True nature of the Daimoku campaign
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:08:29 GMT
From: ***@yahoo.com

All that you have proved is that some in the SF Region regard the
campaign to be a "close-the-temples" campaign. It is not represented
that way in the WT or any official national publication, as you well
know. Of course, I have no problem personally with chanting for the
Nikken Sect temple in my neighborhood to close (Public statement by
SGI member Kathy Ruby)

"We all know people going through a bad divorce, or with evil parents,
who chanted for them to die. They never did, there is no easy way to
get rid of evil ex-spouses, parents, or evil High Priests...I might
have chanted for Nikken to die if I had thought it would do any good."
Public statement by Chris Holte SGI-USA

"Based on the amount of needless hostility that has arrisen between the
Gakkai and the Temple over some clearly self serving dogmas that needed
to be jettisoned by both organizations, I can understand that members
should just chant that he would "die or something". I still wish I
could lock Nikken on Sado in a temple in a graveyard for about one
year, while Nembutsu believers wait in ambush and the snow comes in
through the walls." Public statement by Chris Holte

"All I've ever heard about is SGI members CHANTING for temples to close
- not the outlawing of a religion." Public statement by Jim Celer,
SGI-USA

Re: Inter- or Intra-Faith Dialogue with SGI
Date: 24 Mar 1999 20:09:45 GMT
From: ***@aol.com (Jim Celer)

Why do you think it's a misfortune for "Nichiren" Shoshu if its temples
close? (Public statement by Jim Celer, SGI "Living Buddhism" magazine
midwest Bureau Chief)

"We are merely chanting for the sources of the confusion to close, so
the Daishonin's Buddhism can apread more freely. Pretty good karma, I
would say." Public statement by Jim Celer, (SGI "Living Buddhism"
magazine midwest Bureau Chief )

Subject: RE: [Fwd: Here I am finally. (From July 1998)]
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:31:59 -0700
From: Craig Ellis [SGI member]

regarding chanting to close temples: I regret that this campaign was
given such a poor shortcut to what we really need to chant about. Since
I do view that the SGI is correct and generally doing okay in its
approach to Buddhism, I want to see it continue to grow. I don't need
to tell you that the Daishonin always debated and was not subtle in his
attacks against religious organizations that he felt were leading
people to unhappiness. Well, SGI feels this way about Nichiren
Shoshu... -- >From your perspective, you should be overjoyed that we
have the 10 billion campaign to close the temples. Chanting Daimoku
works. If Nichiren Shoshu is indeed correct in it's study and
interpretation of Buddhism, then we will receive the negative
consequences of our campaign. It really is putting everything on the
line, isn't it? (Email from Craig Ellis, SGI-USA member)

>From the public AOL Buddhist newsgroup:

> Has anyone heard about the latest chanting goal for SGI members?
> Goal: Chant one billion Daimoku to close all NSTemples

Perhaps most disturbing of all is how the SGI members don't even try to
hide their hate and intolerance, blatently disregarding basic Human
Rights and even their own SGI Charter:

" I just recently heard about how the New York members did a special
daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain [sic] to close the temple annex that
was near the Cultural Center. Great work! Now the youth division of San
Francisco region will be starting a daimoku [Buddhist Prayer] campain
[sic] to close all the temples in the U.S.A. Maybe it will have an
effect on the temple in Spain." Public statement by Michael, SGI
member, Stockton (posted on the SGI's public bulletin board 1-10-99)

From: Ten_Ren (34/F/San Mateo, CA) (SGI member)
Jan 11 1999 1:33PM EST

I finally got to go to the Culture Center again. It was such fun. They
had a little play called Spiritually Incorrect. They gave us a good
laugh about the situation as kind of a kick off to ask for 1 billion
daimoku to close all the temples. Everyone was excited by it. I plan on
filling up several cards of chant time. (ibid)

Subject: Re: 10 Billion Daimoku.
Date: 1/28/99 11:33 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: ***@ng12.aol.com

<<SGI has set a daimoku goal to close NST Temples?<<

[Marc Strumpf, before he left Honmon Butsuryu Shu in favour of
Christianity] If it works..can we have them?

Marc, Please join in. I think it's a great idea to use daimoku for
problems, and the Nikken sect is such a negative force that I can't see
what's wrong with chanting to close their temples down.I certainly
don't want a Nikken temple in my area. I have no problem with people
who practice with other Nichiren sects, the only problem I have is when
they single out situations they may have had with individuals and blame
it on the whole organization, or when they spread tabloid stories
around about President Ikeda that aren't true... The less Nikken
temples the less opportunities for people to support Devadatta. Is it
true the followers of Devadatta had a small sect that lasted about 500
years after the Buddha's passing? Hopefully, with daimoku, the Nikken
sect won't last that long. (Public statement by Maureen, SGI-USA)

Re: The Prophecies of the World Phibune
Author: mbh ***@nospamzimailbox.com
Date:1999/01/21

Closing all the temples is not a positive thing? I don't see anything
negative about it. You are not unlike the hoards of sterile bugs they
breed to destroy a species, after they think they have mated and stop
looking to mate, they find out that they were fooled, and have nothing
in side, they just die empty. Of course it is a result of our communal
actions from the past that we have to suffer the likes of you and the
Nikken Shu. I don't think the most of us want to repeat those causes
and for you to go away and stop causing misery and confusion means that
we would have to change our negative karma first. So chanting to close
the temples is a good thing and the result will be that we finally over
come the negative destiny we have to suffer y'all and then y'all will
have some other mission to fullfill cause one hand clapping doesn't
make much sound, like you gotta make the cause to get the effect. At a
more profound level, you actually are no different than the despots and
dictators you complain about. You just haven't been give the power to
enact your will to that degree. They have just kept you tethered in.
Even when you get loose for a moment, you still stay put. Like the guy
infront of the fire making boogeyman shadows and the fools who believe
in those shadows. Chanting to close the temples is a good thing.
Chanting for your happiness ridiculus. Oh please MrBill can't you just
make the cancer happy? (Public statement by Bruce H. Miller SGI
member, San Francisco)

"What right does any religion have to persecute individuals, temples,
churches, etc. in this country? They have no right and it is strictly
forbidden by our laws.Yet an army has been formed to fight a religous
war in the USA that started and belongs in japan. Many people chanted
for the high priest to die before chanting to close the temples. While
most people in sgi-usa find this disgusting, and have not
participated,there are those who do." (From an SGI message board)

---

Derek Juhl
Alias
2005-06-22 11:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Must have hit a nerve so what I said must be true. How pathetic can you get,
David Cole?

Alias
"Yelps" <***@worldya.net> wrote in message
news:vuydnWkDItckoSTfRVn-***@adelphia.com...
>
> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.ua> wrote in message
> news:oIaue.52504$***@news.ono.com...
>> You mean the heir to the gak throne isn't going to be David Cole, aka,
>> The Great White Hope!? I guess Daisaku is just a pinhead for not
>> realizing the greatness of David Cole!
>>
>> Alias
>
>
>
>
> Cody's grandiose Pinheadism at it again. Go lick Nikken's Rump go smoke a
> bowl with him. Maybe you can become Nikken's exclusive Hashish connection
> and attain Buddhahood by following his directions to score him a dozen
> Kilos or so. With the money you could buy a new set of teeth Aren't those
> last dentures getting worn with all that sucking!!?
>
>
> dc
>
>
>> <***@netscape.net> wrote
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/48025
>>>
>>> From: "gaydave53" <***@...>
>>> Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:36 pm
>>> Subject: Son of Ikeda gaydave53
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> I am really getting scared...I just opened the June 10 World Tribune,
>>> which features no less than FOUR photos of Hiromasa Ikeda at various
>>> functions...plus the usual second and third page slot...usually
>>> reserved for his Pop...features a one and a half page address by
>>> Sensei, Junior...
>>>
>>> Are we about to be force fed a steady diet of "Sensei Junior"???
>>>
>>> What special qualifications does Junior have?
>>>
>>> Is the as well read as his father?
>>>
>>> Has he achieved any special victories in shakubuku or strengthened the
>>> faith of millions?
>>>
>>> Where was junior hiding all these years?
>>>
>>> It looks like Junior has been declared the heir to the throne...
>>>
>>> I can't believe the American organization is going to buy into the
>>> glorification of Sensei Junior...but it looks that way...
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Derek Juhl
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Loading...